GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Remember we were playing against the Bobcats.  At one point in the game, the announcers joked "they don't foul very often because you have to be near someone to actually commit a foul".   In other works, not sure we're going to see this "At Will" against better teams.   Better for him to trust his teammates and get them great shots.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    I was going to bring this up but decided not to. This was the Bobcats, one of the worst teams in years in the NBA. I saw about 2 players on that team that I would want playing on my team.  They are terrible on defense and have nothing under the basket (big man).  I wouldn't get too carried away with stats on this game.  Rondo shot 6 shots that were not layups and missed all six. He is not going to get to the rim that much against a good team. He did show he could still find the open man though.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    so the league schedules a back to back to back..and then give them only ONE day off before another game?? WTH???
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Very often, you're right.  But, those aren't always wins.  Those personal battles when he plays well against another marque point guard often turns into a loss.  He had 32 points in a win over Chicago - I loved it.  But, he had 31 in a loss to the Knicks, 22 in a loss to Miami, 24 in a loss to Dallas, 35 in a loss to Detroit, and 24 in a loss to the Lakers.  I'm NOT saying these losses were his fault.  I'm saying the team is not playing its best when Rondo has to spend his time scoring.  The stats say we are playing better when he's setting people up and scoring about 12 to 16 points of so.     A lot of that is on the starters and on how well we're rebounding but I think you see my point - Rondo gets too aggressive and it takesthos other people out of the game and to be honest, we win more when KG, Ray, Paul, and now Bradley are really scoring and Rondo is setting them up. 
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    we agree

     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Celtsfan, on a nightly basis, Rondo is directly responsible for getting everyone shots THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL about 12 times a game (about 14 over the past 15 games) right.  So, Rondo gets 14 assists and he's getting others involved. So of the estimated 27 passes that he makes to players getting them the open shots, they convert 14 of the passes to buckets (assists).  That leaves about 13 passes that don't result in made baskets.  In my opinion, Rondo is in a much better position on a majority of those missed shots to make the easy basket (at the rim but passes out to the 3 point line, etc.).  To me, Rondo can take the shot on at least half of those passes and be aggressive offensively and it would result in more offensive efficiency and more of a threat from our PG position. How many times do we see Rondo at the rim passing it out to the 3-point line only to see Pierce or Pietrus miss the 3.  To me, those are the very instances where Rondo should take the shot because those are the most "make-able". He's still going to get his 14 assists but he'll also have provided some scoring.  That would relieve PP and KG from working to get those buckets on those possessions.  More of that would open things up more for the others. You don't agree with that? Yes, things are working pretty well but honestly how many times does this team just go stagnant because guys aren't hitting shots.  How many times does this team go into offensive funks where we just cannot score points?  Too many times for me.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    I really do understand your logic and I do see instances where he passes and he could have shot.  But, I don't agree that it happens too often.  I say that because the only way you get those wide open 3's that Bradley hit today, that Ray and Paul hit, and those Bass + KG wide open jumpers is that he attracts attention and kicks.  Honestly, I would rather see Ray or Paul taking a wide open three than Rondo trying to take a runner over a big man.   50% of say 15 3 point attempts is more scoring than 50% of him trying to flip in a shot those 15 times.   I like how its working right now.  

    So, if he starts shooting more and stops passing as much - Paul, KG, Bass, Bradley, and Ray have less wide open jumpers when they are all good jump shooters.   I don't like that.

    Also remember, those other passes you are talking about may not be his assist, but if he passes to Paul and Paul then passes to KG for a wide open jumper - that's great ball movement.  I personally love teams that move the ball.  I am a very old (admitted) Celtic fan.  I've ALWAYS loved players who move the ball that second or third pass and end up with a easy shot.  Not quite as glamourous as a Derrick Rose/Lebron James/Duane Wade difficult runner, but to me - more effective which is why Dallas beat Miami last year and why our Celtic teams have done so well over the years WITHOUT having a scoring champion.   I love the Bob Cousy model which is what Rondo is doing.

    I know you don't agree and I really do understand your logic.  I just love the way we are playing now and I love the ball movement an the open shots.  I wouldn't want to disrupt that by saying Rondo should shoot more.  Sorry - but that's just how I see it.

     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    Today is 5th time Rajon Rondo played when Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce AND Ray Allen did not. Celtics are 4-1 in those games.

    from ESPN Stats and Info
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : You make a very good point.  However, why can't he be this way WITH the Big 3?  I mean, he still has his 7 assists (and counting) right now but he's being aggressive offensively TOO and it's paying off. Honestly, I don't understand why he cannot be this way even WITH the Big 3.  He's still going to get 14 assists tonight but he's also a source of point production.  He can do this EVERY NIGHT whether or not he NEEDS to.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]
    Pmce again Petey, your spot on..my only gripe with Rondo is when he passes up layups for 15 ftr..i know that Ray can get hot, but not instead of a bunny...If he were to do that, our offense would be even better. scary huh...
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]20 16 and 6. can this guy be built around?
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    Of course he can and you and I were the most insistent on that issue when almost everyone else trashed him and wanted him traded....
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]i wonder if Dud is listening to them talk about Rondo
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    the bad news for Dudr is, Rondo will be here for ten years!!!
    lots of pepto..
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : I really do understand your logic and I do see instances where he passes and he could have shot.  But, I don't agree that it happens too often.  I say that because the only way you get those wide open 3's that Bradley hit today, that Ray and Paul hit, and those Bass + KG wide open jumpers is that he attracts attention and kicks.  Honestly, I would rather see Ray or Paul taking a wide open three than Rondo trying to take a runner over a big man.   50% of say 15 3 point attempts is more scoring than 50% of him trying to flip in a shot those 15 times.   I like how its working right now.   So, if he starts shooting more and stops passing as much - Paul, KG, Bass, Bradley, and Ray have less wide open jumpers when they are all good jump shooters.   I don't like that. Also remember, those other passes you are talking about may not be his assist, but if he passes to Paul and Paul then passes to KG for a wide open jumper - that's great ball movement.  I personally love teams that move the ball.  I am a very old (admitted) Celtic fan.  I've ALWAYS loved players who move the ball that second or third pass and end up with a easy shot.  Not quite as glamourous as a Derrick Rose/Lebron James/Duane Wade difficult runner, but to me - more effective which is why Dallas beat Miami last year and why our Celtic teams have done so well over the years WITHOUT having a scoring champion.   I love the Bob Cousy model which is what Rondo is doing. I know you don't agree and I really do understand your logic.  I just love the way we are playing now and I love the ball movement an the open shots.  I wouldn't want to disrupt that by saying Rondo should shoot more.  Sorry - but that's just how I see it.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]
    Well put Celtsfan.  But we just see it differently.  Being the #1 team in assists but 26th ranked in scoring worries me when it's playoff time against defensive teams like the Bulls and Heat.  I just have concerns that we won't be able to score enough when we have a genuine potential offensive threat that's not being utilized in that capacity.
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    Key stat - in the last 28 games since the all star break, Rondo has had double digit assists in all but 2 games.  He's had more than 5 turnovers in only 4 games in that stretch.  Of those 28 games, we won 20 of them.   

    Not bad, huh?

    And yes, I'm not stupid enough to think its all Rondo's passing.  Its rebounding and shooting, as well (defense was always there).  But, clearly Rondo's passing is a big part of it. 
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Pmce again Petey, your spot on..my only gripe with Rondo is when he passes up layups for 15 ftr..i know that Ray can get hot, but not instead of a bunny...If he were to do that, our offense would be even better. scary huh...
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]

    Passing up layups for 15 ftr.'s is what starting this whole debate!  LOL Tommy Heinson was just saying that this should be the next "phase" of Rondo's development so maybe the kid just can't do it well enough against the better teams. It is, however, the ONLY thing he can't do. He's been the leading rebounder on a few ocassions
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]Love it when the other team has to at least worry about rondo scoring. Opens up the floor for everyone else, even "bench" players. Makes the Celts offense so much less predictable to defend
    Posted by upperco1[/QUOTE]

    i responded to petey in similar fashion, before i noticed your post...similar minds...
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Passing up layups for 15 ftr.'s is what starting this whole debate!  LOL Tommy Heinson was just saying that this should be the next "phase" of Rondo's development so maybe the kid just can't do it well enough against the better teams. It is, however, the ONLY thing he can't do. He's been the leading rebounder on a few ocassions
    Posted by upperco1[/QUOTE]

    sorry, came on late to the discussions
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Passing up layups for 15 ftr.'s is what starting this whole debate!  LOL Tommy Heinson was just saying that this should be the next "phase" of Rondo's development so maybe the kid just can't do it well enough against the better teams. It is, however, the ONLY thing he can't do. He's been the leading rebounder on a few ocassions
    Posted by upperco1[/QUOTE]

    again, Rondo's biggest stat lines have come against the best teams in the league. im not sure there should be any question that he CAN.

     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : sorry, came on late to the discussions
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]

    No problem...It actually started LAST night! hahaha
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]notice how when the big 3 are out, Rondo needs to be more aggressive, and has been. 10 pts, 5 assists in the 1st qtr.
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    It wasn't unexpected, but wasn't it great to see!

    As Always,



     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : again, Rondo's biggest stat lines have come against the best teams in the league. im not sure there should be any question that he CAN.
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    I recall LA not even bothering to guard him during the finals
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    Right now, a whole lot of things are going in the Celtics' favor.

    Alot of players are playing really well and THAT is the reason for our team success since the all-star game.

    Unfortunately, we still encounter the stinker game every now and then and that is what we need to overcome.

    I honestly think the number 1 reason for our success since the all-star break has been the move of KG to center.  PP has upped his game.  Rondo wakes up with 14 assists and AB has come on as strong as any Celtics player.  We've just played so much better as a team in alot of areas.
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Celtsfan, on a nightly basis, Rondo is directly responsible for getting everyone shots THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL about 12 times a game (about 14 over the past 15 games) right.  So, Rondo gets 14 assists and he's getting others involved. So of the estimated 27 passes that he makes to players getting them the open shots, they convert 14 of the passes to buckets (assists).  That leaves about 13 passes that don't result in made baskets.  In my opinion, Rondo is in a much better position on a majority of those missed shots to make the easy basket (at the rim but passes out to the 3 point line, etc.).  To me, Rondo can take the shot on at least half of those passes and be aggressive offensively and it would result in more offensive efficiency and more of a threat from our PG position. How many times do we see Rondo at the rim passing it out to the 3-point line only to see Pierce or Pietrus miss the 3.  To me, those are the very instances where Rondo should take the shot because those are the most "make-able". He's still going to get his 14 assists but he'll also have provided some scoring.  That would relieve PP and KG from working to get those buckets on those possessions.  More of that would open things up more for the others. You don't agree with that? Yes, things are working pretty well but honestly how many times does this team just go stagnant because guys aren't hitting shots.  How many times does this team go into offensive funks where we just cannot score points?  Too many times for me.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]
    not only is taking a 2ftr/over a 20ftr smarter, more efficient, but if he misses, we have a better chance of a follow up shot by a trailing celtic, because the ball will bounce much more predictable..but hopefully that will come with time.
    he has already shown steady improvement in his shot selection, so this should take care of itself in the near future..im sure doc has talked to him, but Rondo is a little stubborn..
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Well put Celtsfan.  But we just see it differently.  Being the #1 team in assists but 26th ranked in scoring worries me when it's playoff time against defensive teams like the Bulls and Heat.  I just have concerns that we won't be able to score enough when we have a genuine potential offensive threat that's not being utilized in that capacity.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]


    Yes, I agree..... I hope we don't run into a situation where our defense doesn't hold up.  If teams start staying closer to Bradley, KG, Pierce, etc and don't help when Rondo drives, you are right - Rondo BETTER SCORE!!!!

    By the way - side subject:  Do you think that the "26th in scoring" stat is deceiving?   When you're a good defensive team, you make teams score less. They take more time and go deep into the shot clock.  There are less possessions for both teams.  So, you don't score as well.  That's the Celtics.  

    If you're OKC, you just shoot and shoot and run and shoot.  You score more, and so does the other team!

    Guess which approach comes into play when you hit the playoffs and start playing half court basketball?

    I'm less concerned about scoring too little when our scoring average is actually increasing.   We averaged 88.2 pts in Jan, 89.5 in Feb, 95.4 in March, and 92.0 in April so far.  Our point differential over our opponents have increased every month.  I bet if you ranked us since the all star break, we wouldn't be 26th in scoring any more!

    Always good to get a different perspective from a fellow fan.  Thanks for giving me that different perspective, Petey.  I always enjoy the chat.

    Let's beat the Knicks on Tuesday!!!
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : Of course he can and you and I were the most insistent on that issue when almost everyone else trashed him and wanted him traded....
    Posted by CASox[/QUOTE]


    dont worry i havent forgotten what everyone was saying..outside of me, you, and the j997mgh (not his real name but i dont remember) and celtsfan, rondo was getting destroyed. i took mental notes.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]Right now, a whole lot of things are going in the Celtics' favor. Alot of players are playing really well and THAT is the reason for our team success since the all-star game. Unfortunately, we still encounter the stinker game every now and then and that is what we need to overcome. I honestly think the number 1 reason for our success since the all-star break has been the move of KG to center.  PP has upped his game.  Rondo wakes up with 14 assists and AB has come on as strong as any Celtics player.  We've just played so much better as a team in alot of areas.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    100% agree.
     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    Petey, i think, this is a similar situation to say, convincing paul pierce that the team will be better if he does'nt score 30 pts. If he gets other players involved and serves as a decoy. As a result he will get better looks because he is less predictable..but in reverse. Rondo needs to be a little more "selfish".

     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : I recall LA not even bothering to guard him during the finals
    Posted by upperco1[/QUOTE]


    ....your talking about TWO YEARS AGO upperco....i think you should probly get over it, as Rondo is a better player than he was then.

    and since we are on two years ago, who played out-of-this-world basketball to GET the C's all the way to the Finals in the first place??

    short memories we have.

     
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    Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS

    In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: GAME OF THE YEAR THREAD: CELTS-HORNETS : i responded to petey in similar fashion, before i noticed your post...similar minds...
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]
    +1
     

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