Harangody vs Davis (Future)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from spewey. Show spewey's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Davis will be gone and it has nothing to do with Luke.  He will get his payday.  Some team will overpay and it won't be the Celts.  He is an undersized PF who has a tendency towards knuckleheadism that the front office is well aware of.

    I do think they consider themselves fortunate to have retained him for the past 2 years.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    C'mon way to early to make this kind of comments.  I hope Luke and BBD continue to battle for time out there and will only result in a better chance for 18.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from joel49. Show joel49's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    I think Danny will re-up Davis before he hits free agency.  Yes, he has his shortcomings (no pun intended), but his strengths far outweigh them.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Way too early to compare the two. One good game does not make Luke an NBA player. I'm also not sure whether Davis will leave.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    oh boy.  i knew this was coming.  luke puts up 17 and 11 vs. a non-existent basement team's front line and we're going to replace davis with him.  some of you guys kill me.  with the new CBA there is no definite saying "davis will be gone next year". 

    we very well could have him at 5-6m on a 3 year contract.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]I think Danny will re-up Davis before he hits free agency.  Yes, he has his shortcomings (no pun intended), but his strengths far outweigh them.
    Posted by joel49[/QUOTE]

    I think Danny will make an offer but he may be worth more on the open market.  And given that Davis' IQ appears on the bottom of his sneakers he will take the money and run - his opinion of his game and his intelligence level are indirectly correlated.

    It is not as if there are any starters / stars pining away on the pine waiting for the BIG 3 ear to wane.

    Danny has got to figure out how to fill those slots in the long run.  Otherwise they become Detroit.  The Pistons championship team had 4 all-stars and then Joe Dumars tried to replace some of the stars by overpaying lesser players and now is in lottery misery or worse treading water in mediocrity land.

    These decisions cannot be made in a vaccum.  I think posters tend to view a players game as transferable to any situation.

    There is never any debate on this board about how much the presence of the BIG 3 benefits all of the other players on the roster.  Tons of praise is heaped on Rondo but nobody else in the league plays with as much talent.  Tons of praise is heaped on Perk but nobody in the league plays with as much talent.

    The presence of Pierce, Allen, and KG benefits every player on the roster to some degree.

    So if we can go with that basic idea as a given - then think about what BBD is worth.  He is a nice player that generally plays against the 2nd team and is pressed by his teammates and coach to play at a high level.  My fear / feeling is that in a different situation Davis would be a clown who thinks more of his game than is actually there (much the way Rondo and Perk do).

    Conversely or additionally, Harangody lasted in 4 years of college not because he was committed to an education or anything like that.  He is a journeyman tweener who, like Davis, benefits greatly from who he is fortunate enough to play with.  If he was anything other than that, he would have been in the league 3 years ago.

    What is amazing to me is that how posters / people / fans feel that somehow when these journeymen show up that somehow they are destined for Springfield and how Danny is a genius, etc.  Luke had a good game against a really, really bad team that has been poorly managed and systematically dismantled at every turn.  As if you could not have KG up Hakeem Warrick / Ryan Gomes / Michael Beasley / Bargnani / Turiaf / DeAndre Jordan / Jason Thompson, etc. butt everyday and would not get the same results.  Let's not get crazy about what Davis and or Harangody bring that about 50 other players in the league cannot bring.

    There are Harangodys and Davis drafted year in and year out but of course unless they are wearing green, they are either dismissed or ignored - give me Landry Fields instead of Harangody any day of the week.

    There are any number of other players that were drafted this year who have one or two years of college experience but over the long run will be much much much better players than Harangody.  I think 35 games into his career - WYSIWYG and that there is not a lot more upside.

    Part of the title of this thread is (Future), suffice it to say that absent filling the BIG 3's salary slots with superstars makes the (Future) and the question of LH or BBD largely irrelevant.

     



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lovetruth007. Show lovetruth007's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    They are two different kinds of players. Right now, they both play with heart. They understand their roles and they deliver when called. Baby has been a fan favorite and he is already well-known nationally. He has been so lucky to start his career in the year the new big three was formed.  Luke is also lucky to join the big three to start his NBA career. He has skills and he is willing to improve. There is no surprise he puts up a double-double last night. He is ready and he can do it. Who has a better future? God knows. If they keep improving the way they are, Luke may end up an all-star someday. Baby may or may not. I see a leadship in Luke, not in baby. That may separate these two players in the long run.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]They are two different kinds of players. Right now, they both play with heart. They understand their roles and they deliver when called. Baby has been a fan favorite and he is already well-known nationally. He has been so lucky to start his career in the year the new big three was formed.  Luke is also lucky to join the big three to start his NBA career. He has skills and he is willing to improve. There is no surprise he puts up a double-double last night. He is ready and he can do it. Who has a better future? God knows. If they keep improving the way they are, Luke may end up an all-star someday. Baby may or may not. I see a leadship in Luke, not in baby. That may separate these two players in the long run.
    Posted by lovetruth007[/QUOTE]


    With KG back as soon as Monday, I would be willing to bet what I own that LH will not have another double double this season unless there are more injuries and even if there are more injuries it will require the perfect storm of playing against a really bad team while KG is out.....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    I like Luke's fundamentals and it makes Davis look bad that he only gets a couple rebounds a game.  Luke set himself up to look like a possible 20/10 guy last night and in the NBA those guys are really valuable. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Danny has really positioned himself very well.  Clearly the GMs are in play against each other and Danny has a lot of options this offseason.  He signed Rondo to an extension at the right time and that was hailed as one of the smartest moves the last offseason.  He has not extended Perk or Davis this season.  I suppose he anticipates that the new collective bargaining agreement will make it harder for teams to sign free agents.

    Clearly Harangody is not BBD as Baby plays 4 and 5.  If Harangody can sub for 3 and 4, the Celts can come up with a good rotation with Erdan subbing for 5.  BBD may be a perfect sign and trade chip this off season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future) : What is amazing to me is that how posters / people / fans feel that somehow when these journeymen show up that somehow they are destined for Springfield and how Danny is a genius, etc.  Luke had a good game against a really, really bad team that has been poorly managed and systematically dismantled at every turn.  As if you could not have KG up Hakeem Warrick / Ryan Gomes / Michael Beasley / Bargnani / Turiaf / DeAndre Jordan / Jason Thompson, etc. butt everyday and would not get the same results.  Let's not get crazy about what Davis and or Harangody bring that about 50 other players in the league cannot bring. There are Harangodys and Davis drafted year in and year out but of course unless they are wearing green, they are either dismissed or ignored - give me Landry Fields instead of Harangody any day of the week. There are any number of other players that were drafted this year who have one or two years of college experience but over the long run will be much much much better players than Harangody.  I think 35 games into his career - WYSIWYG and that there is not a lot more upside. Part of the title of this thread is (Future), suffice it to say that absent filling the BIG 3's salary slots with superstars makes the (Future) and the question of LH or BBD largely irrelevant.  
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    Wow!  Talk about a 5000 ft. view or sweeping generalizations.  Yes, Danny has done a phenominal job and continues to do so.

    Danny was able to bring Ray Allen and KG to Boston because he collected multiple pieces and created enough flexibility for himself to operate.  But that was done through a number of moves.

    A successful GM should be able to buy low and sell hign.  Plus take some chances that may work out (Rondo) or may not (possibly Bradley).  Plus, maximize options so that there is a higher probability of things working out (2010-11 roster).

    Right now, the Celts have high valuations on BBD, Harangody and Erdan.  Danny can make moves to trade them for higher potential valuations.  Those will be steps towards the ultimate goal that you articulated: replace the big three with quality talent.  Danny will not be able to get there in one move.  But I like where he is right now.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Two things Danny Ainge will not do any time soon:

    1. Sign Leon Powe

    2. Trade for Marcus Camby
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Way way too early to get excited about one Harongody game against the Raptors.  The Celts outrebounded the Raptors 43 to 31.  how often does that happen and what does that tell you about Luke's performance.   For all the Celtics, it was a relatively easy game.

    BBD averages almost 6 rebounds a game (last  3 games he had about 2, but that's NOT his average - look it up....he's 5.6 a game!).   He also averages 12.6 points per game and all of that is in 30 mins/game.  Add to that the charges and loos balls and defensive capability and there's no comparison.  Heck that's like looking at one of Nate's really good games and then asking "wow - could Nate replace Rondo?".....NO!!!!   

    I don't know if BBD will be here next year (I hope he is) but I know that Luke is a good player but NOT his replacement.   One night does not make a player, although I do like Luke.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubbakilla. Show bubbakilla's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    luke is a player and already has a college history for doing all the things he is now doing, rebounding and shooting. guy led big east in both scoring and rebounding. undersized or not, that shows something. i think it really may make KG expendable after 2011 and after the CBA. if kg wants some kind of max or high deal regardless of how great he is playing, will let him walk and start the rebuilding process, defending champs or not. also lessens baby's leverage in the overall market and will slow down his arrogance in demands. another great job by ainge. i think 5-6mil for 5 years should do it. BB is worth that. 7 or more is where the problem will be. again, depends if kg is healthy for the playoffs. if he is, bb will be seen purely as a 6th man/bakup type. if not, his value goes up esp if we get bak to the finals... interesting either way. would like a 3-man rotation for 2011 with kg phased out after that with celts then drafting or trading for backup PF with some size and defensive capacity.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    My prediciton is that Harangody will be, like Cowens, successful beyond his size and athletic ability. And he, like Rondo, will have his detractors on this site because we have, on here,  a bunch of idiots who don't know the difference between statistics and team basketball. They are baseball fans in nature and only know how to read stat sheets for analysis.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]Way way too early to get excited about one Harongody game against the Raptors.  The Celts outrebounded the Raptors 43 to 31.  how often does that happen and what does that tell you about Luke's performance.   For all the Celtics, it was a relatively easy game. BBD averages almost 6 rebounds a game (last  3 games he had about 2, but that's NOT his average - look it up....he's 5.6 a game!).   He also averages 12.6 points per game and all of that is in 30 mins/game.  Add to that the charges and loos balls and defensive capability and there's no comparison.  Heck that's like looking at one of Nate's really good games and then asking "wow - could Nate replace Rondo?".....NO!!!!    I don't know if BBD will be here next year (I hope he is) but I know that Luke is a good player but NOT his replacement.   One night does not make a player, although I do like Luke.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    You know 5.6 a game is extremely low for a PF averaging 30 minutes a game right?  Davis brings a lot to the table offensively and defensively but he is a bad rebounder.  He averages 8.6 per 48 minutes which puts him 44th among qualifying forwards.  Not just power forwards.  All forwards.

    With that said He is still much better than Luke at this point.  But Davis and rebounding is like Rondo and shooting.  It doesn't tell the whole story but it is part of the story.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    If Glen Davis demands more than 5m a year I think the Celtics should let him go. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsboy. Show celticsboy's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    you guys are talking aboue Fat Glen's IQ as a basketball player, I'm more worried about Danny Ainge's as a GM. After that disastrous, vomiting pick up a made on the Loafer, Jermaine Oneal or J.LO for short, for $5 mill for 2 years, I wouldn't be on e dam bit surprised if he resigns Fat Glen to a contract as big as his Fat Azz demands.

    This is the same Ainge we're talking about that kept Brian Scalabrine on the Celtics payroll and roster for 5 years at $5 mill per when he could've dumped that worthless Clown and could've allowed to team to stay more competetive and kept James Posey by paying him instead. don't forget the likes of Mikki Moore and Vaseline Eating Stephon Marbury. Danny Ainge may make a good move here and there but the boneheaded moves he makes sometimes will drive you nuts.

    J.LO must be dumped to clear a roster sppot and the books off his big $5 mill salary that he is not showing worth of even a penny. Fat Glen must be gone, you guys are falling in love with him and I can think of 10 players that can do better and help this team make a lay up and rebound better.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future) : I think Danny will make an offer but he may be worth more on the open market.  And given that Davis' IQ appears on the bottom of his sneakers he will take the money and run - his opinion of his game and his intelligence level are indirectly correlated. It is not as if there are any starters / stars pining away on the pine waiting for the BIG 3 ear to wane. Danny has got to figure out how to fill those slots in the long run.  Otherwise they become Detroit.  The Pistons championship team had 4 all-stars and then Joe Dumars tried to replace some of the stars by overpaying lesser players and now is in lottery misery or worse treading water in mediocrity land. These decisions cannot be made in a vaccum.  I think posters tend to view a players game as transferable to any situation. There is never any debate on this board about how much the presence of the BIG 3 benefits all of the other players on the roster.  Tons of praise is heaped on Rondo but nobody else in the league plays with as much talent.  Tons of praise is heaped on Perk but nobody in the league plays with as much talent. The presence of Pierce, Allen, and KG benefits every player on the roster to some degree. So if we can go with that basic idea as a given - then think about what BBD is worth.  He is a nice player that generally plays against the 2nd team and is pressed by his teammates and coach to play at a high level.  My fear / feeling is that in a different situation Davis would be a clown who thinks more of his game than is actually there (much the way Rondo and Perk do). Conversely or additionally, Harangody lasted in 4 years of college not because he was committed to an education or anything like that.  He is a journeyman tweener who, like Davis, benefits greatly from who he is fortunate enough to play with.  If he was anything other than that, he would have been in the league 3 years ago. What is amazing to me is that how posters / people / fans feel that somehow when these journeymen show up that somehow they are destined for Springfield and how Danny is a genius, etc.  Luke had a good game against a really, really bad team that has been poorly managed and systematically dismantled at every turn.  As if you could not have KG up Hakeem Warrick / Ryan Gomes / Michael Beasley / Bargnani / Turiaf / DeAndre Jordan / Jason Thompson, etc. butt everyday and would not get the same results.  Let's not get crazy about what Davis and or Harangody bring that about 50 other players in the league cannot bring. There are Harangodys and Davis drafted year in and year out but of course unless they are wearing green, they are either dismissed or ignored - give me Landry Fields instead of Harangody any day of the week. There are any number of other players that were drafted this year who have one or two years of college experience but over the long run will be much much much better players than Harangody.  I think 35 games into his career - WYSIWYG and that there is not a lot more upside. Part of the title of this thread is (Future), suffice it to say that absent filling the BIG 3's salary slots with superstars makes the (Future) and the question of LH or BBD largely irrelevant.  
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    Good analysis!

    One thing about Ainge...he likes undersized PFs. Gomes, Powe, BBD, Harangody. He knows that he's going to get effort out of guys that size.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    In Response to Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future):
    [QUOTE]you guys are talking aboue Fat Glen's IQ as a basketball player, I'm more worried about Danny Ainge's as a GM. After that disastrous, vomiting pick up a made on the Loafer, Jermaine Oneal or J.LO for short, for $5 mill for 2 years, I wouldn't be on e dam bit surprised if he resigns Fat Glen to a contract as big as his Fat Azz demands. This is the same Ainge we're talking about that kept Brian Scalabrine on the Celtics payroll and roster for 5 years at $5 mill per when he could've dumped that worthless Clown and could've allowed to team to stay more competetive and kept James Posey by paying him instead. don't forget the likes of Mikki Moore and Vaseline Eating Stephon Marbury. Danny Ainge may make a good move here and there but the boneheaded moves he makes sometimes will drive you nuts. J.LO must be dumped to clear a roster spot and the books off his big $5 mill salary that he is not showing worth of even a penny. Fat Glen must be gone, you guys are falling in love with him and I can think of 10 players that can do better and help this team make a lay up and rebound better.
    Posted by celticsboy[/QUOTE]in the words of cris carter: COME ON MAN! are you really a celtic boy? have you actually seen what danny has done around here? name the GM who bats .1000? i would say most of ainge's moves are great and have worked out with a couple of questionable stinkers? hey whatever happened to all the idiotts and there DOC must go threads, he holds us back bla bla... fact is there too most of the moves are great with a few shaky ones. yep were the lakers wrong for signing artest? just for game 7 and the threat that he can do that on both ends at any time is worth it? keep the book open on jo!

    have you followed the pats? what happened between 2006 thru 2008 with our draft picks, adelius thomas, or not signing asante samuels? wow, the great belichick suddenly retook his genius pills? same with theo epstein? don't go nutss over a couple of shaky stuff and Literally throw the BABY out with the bath water man.. was scal worth it? overall no, but that was his market value at the time. he helped us get a ring in '07 and certainly was no bust. he gave us all he had and in spurts. yep overall the overpay was worth it. we were lucky to always have more athletic options and guys who could produce more consistently over the long term.. 

    i do not think scal's signing was completely unreasonable considering the MARKET. danny assumed he would be a great bridge from awful to bad then decline a bit as we became good (off the bench rotation). but FORTUNATELY we went from awful to GREAT overnight completely eliminating the value and skills of a scal. good thing! sometimes things beyond one's control happens like kg and quis getting hurt. 

    have you seen other teams' busts? are you not appreciative of the draft picks like bb or luke? the guys he signs off the streets to minimal deals like wafer or house who produce? with jo it makes perfect sense y he took the risk. first of, that is the market value for any big man who can fog up a mirror and dunk nowadays. glad the celts now have jo, shaq and perk all on one team. jo's best value is that our competitors do not have him. you will see come playoff time what that means when we are dominating the boards and paint with more trees then a rainforest! yep funny how you go after jo but completely ignore what an absolute value shaq and semih have been. law of averages, danny knew he was taking a risk holding the fort for perk with the o'neals. posey? yep in retrospect i am sure danny would have resigned him but it happens. how many were screaming that he resigned ray ray at his age and what not? was he wrong on not overpaying for tony allen too? 

    my point is the celts clearly have a predictable formula as do the other winners in our city called the pats and sox. there are no perfect systems but most times it works! look at our roster, how many bums and overpaid-bad signings have we really had the past 4 years? ainge's record is as good as it gets in comparison to the rest of the LEAGUE!  his "misses" make perfect sense. scal at the time had a huge upside, played multiple frontline positions from 3 thru 5 and was a great team guy on a team where even he captain was shaky at the time in that area. if nothing else, scal helped those guys in that locker room buy into the concept. mikki moore was a cheap, high upside risk when we got him. he's 7 feet tall, didnt quite work out, so what? was he a greg oden risk? speaking of whom, if healthy, i would hope the celts give him a vet minimum non-guaranteed look-see in 2012. marbury cost us what? how many would not have given him a shot? again, another low risk, high upside bargain. little nate? word is still out but there were a few teams out there willing to give him a better deal than he got from us. still young with a skillset that could help us in spurts. did he not help us win games with rondo out? 

    yep we take low risks with versatile big guys and guards while only paying when we absolutely have to (jo) for pure centers and later with pure power forwards. we draw the line with swingmen and pure small and power forward types. so what.. its called a winning philosophy, ainge has been able to find those anywhere. the pats per example, as a rule, do not pay or take big risks with offensive linemen, running backs, defensive backs or inside linebackers. heck, you may even add qb to that equation. all of their risks occur with outside linebackers and defensive linemen. some teams are different. again, look at the big pic esp in comparison to the rest of the league. works MOST of the time!

    bottom line is that BABY like delonte or quis will only be resigned if it is a team-friendly rondo, nate or ray allen type deal.. we will not overpay for him! ainge has held the line on ALL re-signings. can not think of ONE bad one in the big 3 era. not one! going forward, we may overpay for a pure center or PF with some offensive punch or a pure backup point guard vet with some shooting prowess but that is it. ainge can pull the rest out of a hat esp with the tweener types!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: Harangody vs Davis (Future)

    Davis would not be that easy to replace, he has tons of experience as a Celtic and is court ready against just about any big, he is established in our system.  A valuable player for us, more so than he would be for another team.  He is worth 20 million for a five year contract, actually more but will not get it here.  He is worth a lot more than that in a trade for a big three replacement.  He has a very good basketball IQ, without a doubt.  His improvement from year to year is good.  Luke is untested but appears to be a Celtic type player and worth keeping for a year or two.  Luke will need to lose a few pounds and work on defending a three, if he does this he could become a valuable roll player for a team with two big stars.  He would be worth the 5 million for three year contact.  Luke also could be valuable in a trade if Doc could give him some minutes so he could showcase his skills.
     

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