I was wrong about Jeff Green

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    I was wrong about Jeff Green

    we have now had a good 10-12 games look at Green, and I was wrong on him with some of my comments. I think he plays longer than I originally thought. He gets his shot off with ease, and is much more at ease taking the mid range jumper than I saw with OKC. I wish he was willing to play in the paint more, but so far I don't see that part of his game.
    I see a lot of holes in Green's defense. He is seemingly over powered, and is too easy off of his feet trying for the block. Green seems to have a knack at altering the shot on his man, but so far his help defense looks non existent.
    I prefer what Green brings over what Marquis brings. I question if Green is going to be worth the qualifying offer of $5.9 mil next year. Have to see what the cap is, and who else is out there. I think there are a lot of guys who have a very similar game to Green, but Green to my eye "gets it". He will be happy with his role off of the bench, without complaint. He plays smarter than I thought, and his brain cramps that I saw with OKC so far I do not see with the Celts. 
    I like Green in the rotation for the play-offs, and I hope he is resigned for next year, but I am not sure if his number of $5.9 is worth it?

     
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    How much did we pay JON?

    PA
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Many people felt the same way.......and I had forgotten you even said that.  I'll take what Green gives us on O vs the holes in his D.  If he's out there with KG, it won't matter.  I think DA HAS to resign him, or else we gave Perk away for nothing.  Rumors are the CBA will be lower, but we can match any offer, so we'll probably low ball him at first.  He runs well, he posts well, and his D will come.  A very good trade overall!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green will be resigned and will be a main cog in our team for a while I feel. As for the not in the paint enough,W T F? He's got a great inside game on offense . He can get his shot off down low against anyone,he can rebound well but our system really doesn't lend itself to wing O rebounding. If you notice his drawing his man out to the far perimeter on the wing has forced his man out there because of his range has really opened up the lane for everyone,especially Baby, when he's in the game. He could put up better numbers but has the dicipline to stay within the set play than to always look for his stats. Like I said when the trade first happened , WE stole Green,Kristic,and a first from the Thunder for a guy that wasn't going to resign and wanted to go live back in the land of rednecks. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneNation. Show OneNation's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]we have now had a good 10-12 games look at Green, and I was wrong on him with some of my comments. I think he plays longer than I originally thought. He gets his shot off with ease, and is much more at ease taking the mid range jumper than I saw with OKC. I wish he was willing to play in the paint more, but so far I don't see that part of his game. I see a lot of holes in Green's defense. He is seemingly over powered, and is too easy off of his feet trying for the block. Green seems to have a knack at altering the shot on his man, but so far his help defense looks non existent. I prefer what Green brings over what Marquis brings. I question if Green is going to be worth the qualifying offer of $5.9 mil next year. Have to see what the cap is, and who else is out there. I think there are a lot of guys who have a very similar game to Green, but Green to my eye "gets it". He will be happy with his role off of the bench, without complaint. He plays smarter than I thought, and his brain cramps that I saw with OKC so far I do not see with the Celts.  I like Green in the rotation for the play-offs, and I hope he is resigned for next year, but I am not sure if his number of $5.9 is worth it?    
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]
    I agree with alot of your comments however I don't agree about not seeing Green in the paint.  I repeatedly have seen him post up and shoot over guys with that little baby hook. I think his offensive game is very complete.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    5.9 mill. is a steal for a player of Greens stature.  Didnt we sign Scal to 3 or 5 mill. a year?  Hel, JON is making 5.5 mill this year to rehab for next year..I think we can make room for a guy actually contributing...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is defenitely going to command more than 5.9 mill. The biggest reason we made the trade is once marquis was injured, we were literally left without a backup for paul. Danny had no choice but to make a move for a 3, and when you also factor in that da KNEW he wouldnt resign perk  for what he would command he made the move. The biggest difference with perk and greens contract situation is green is restricted so we can match any offer, but perk was unrestricted and da knew someone would overpay perk and wed be left with NOTHING.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    I think there are only two big issues with Green's game and I think they are fixable over the off season (or maybe the rest of this year).   (1)  Like 'Quis and like BBD at times, when he gets the ball - he's a black hole.  The ball freezes as he thinks about his move and tries to slowly back his man in ala Charles Barkley.  That freezes the offense and produces no chance at rebounds.   He has to move faster on his move or send the ball back around to someone else.   (2) he is caught out of position on his man to man  D and gets beat.  Rather than forcing his man to help defense, he lets his man go to their strong hand (sometimes baseline) where they have the advantage.   

    Green is a good midrange and decent long range shooter, runs the court with speed, can jump, can finish at the rim, and can rebound.   He's well worth the $5.9M and more.  If we can keep him and BBD, what we'll need is a true center and a very athletic 2 guard.  Rondo, Green, and BBD are the start of a replacement for the Big 3, but we need 2 more "stars" to really be challengers long term.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]5.9 mill. is a steal for a player of Greens stature.  Didnt we sign Scal to 3 or 5 mill. a year?  Hel, JON is making 5.5 mill this year to rehab for next year..I think we can make room for a guy actually contributing...
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]
    I don't think you can point to the poor deals made for Scal and JON to see what Green may be worth. You can also point to BBD mnaking $3mil this year and say that Green is overpaid based on BBD's contract.
    I think it is fair to say that BBD offers more value to the Celt's, and should command the higher contract. Green runs well, shoots fairly well, and has enough athleticism to play better D, but doesn't. That sounds like a blueprint for 40% of the league, doesn't it?
    Blatche, Gallo, Butler, Prince, Shawne Williams, Marvin Williams, Taj Gibson, Wilson Chandler, etc, etc 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]How much did we pay JON? PA
    Posted by PACelt[/QUOTE]

    Agree about Jon.  What a bad signing he has turned out to be for this season.
    Hopefully, he will decide to retire after this year.  I wish that Rasheed hadn't decided to retire.  We never would have signed Jon.  At least Rasheed played for the entire season and was a terrific help during the playoffs.  I don't expect that Jon will contribute anything for us during the playoffs. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]Green is defenitely going to command more than 5.9 mill. The biggest reason we made the trade is once marquis was injured, we were literally left without a backup for paul. Danny had no choice but to make a move for a 3, and when you also factor in that da KNEW he wouldnt resign perk  for what he would command he made the move. The biggest difference with perk and greens contract situation is green is restricted so we can match any offer, but perk was unrestricted and da knew someone would overpay perk and wed be left with NOTHING.
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]

    You think some other team will offer Jeff Green more than 5.9 mill?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green : You think some other team will offer Jeff Green more than 5.9 mill?
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]
    Well, that is kind of my point. I do not think another team will pay him more than $5.9, but doesn't that mean Celts are on the hook for $5.9? Can the C's renounce Green, and resign him for $3-$4mil? I do not think that they can.
    So to summarize, I like Green with the Celts. He is better than my middlin expectations, but certainly no where near the budding all star other's painted him to be. I would like to see him return as the team looks now. I like him as the 7th man, but not at $5.9 mil. If the team does break up this year, I do not like Green as the starting small forward at $5.9 mil. I think that the money is better used elsewhere, and I think what Green brings to the table, can be found elsewhere
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is going to get much better on defense.  He will learn the schemes and come to recognize the value of defense as part of a unit. 

    I think you all underestimate the value of Green on the open market. It will be quite a bit higher.  
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green was a starter and he is now a back up.

    He will get better as we play better teams, and integrates with the first and second teams. Time will tell how good he will be with a team first concept.

    He is still learning the defense and the offense.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green should be getting close to 7-8mil next year.  Dont short change him.  As far as BBD, some near he same.  He doesnt have the intangibles like long range shooting, speed, and leaping ability so he should come in around 6-7mil a year.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    ONLY differences I see with the above arguments:

    BBD is UNrestricted, so he will go to the highest bidder - Celtics, I'm sure have an idea what he is worth to them.  He may not be back, but I hope he is for reasonable money.  Rame seems to think we can offer him, like 4/30?  I would do that.

    Green is restricted.  Celtics can make him ANY offer they want, then he can shop around, get another offer, which we will match.  Usually RFA's don't leave because no one wants to get into a bidding war.  I think BBD gets more than Green right now, but I think Green is the better player!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    The point is some other team is going to have to offer significantly more than the 5.9 knowing that the cs can match any offer,advantage cs. They get to see what offers are available and have the last opportunity to match it. With perk,  it similiar to the ta situation last year. Ta gets a good offer from grizz and the cs dont have the opportunity match any offer as he was an unrestricted fa and he took off to memphis.
    Bbaby last year also was a restricted fa and the cs waited and waited when no other team offered him the mid level that he was looking for the cs scooped him up at 3 mil, of course another team would love to have bbaby at 3 mil but whats the point of offering it and get tied up and missing on another fa while u know the cs are going to match anyway.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green : With the exception of Wilson who is still developing I think Atlanta would love if Marvin Williams produced consistent numbers like Green.  The truth of the matter is that Green was asked to play power forward exclusively because Durant is a small and you can already see that if Green is featured in this offense he can put up numbers, and in a hurry.  I do not think OKC was using him right, not  that the Celtics have figured it out but the trick with both him and Baby is not to pigieon hole them into a three or four and let them decide as front court mates the match-up advantages to all of this. 
    Posted by ShepherdCall[/QUOTE]
    Pete,
    To look at the most even playing field, I prefer the metric "player efficiency rating" (PER). It is not with out faults, but my opinion it is the best metric to review for fairly rating a player.
    W Chandler and T PRince are ranked as SF and are ranked #13 with a per of 15.27
    M Williams is ranked as a SF and his rank is #27 at 13.20 per
    Gallo is a PF ranked #32 at 16.04 per
    Blatche is a PF ranked #38 at 15.43 per
    Jeff Green is ranked as a PF and is at #55 with a per of 13.10
    Would Greens rank be better as a SF? Maybe. Can he defend the quicker 3's? Not sure. Is he worth $6M? From what I have seen, no. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    I like Jeff Green but to me he seems like a 3rd or 4th fiddle on a bona fide contender.  Is he a guy you rebuild with?  Possibly, but you'd need to have a lot of good talent around him. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]I like Jeff Green but to me he seems like a 3rd or 4th fiddle on a bona fide contender.  Is he a guy you rebuild with?  Possibly, but you'd need to have a lot of good talent around him. 
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]
    Green was the 2nd fiddle with OKC, after KD. Then became the 3rd fiddle, after Westbrook. This year he was losing his starting position to Ibaka, soon to be the 6th man before the trade for Perk.
    I too like Jeff Green. He is perfect on a team with PP, KG, BBD and Rondo. Without KG, PP...I don't like Jeff Green as a starting SF or PF on a team with championship aspirations. I do like him as the 6th or 7th man, but of course not at $6M
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    In Response to Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green:
    [QUOTE]I like Jeff Green but to me he seems like a 3rd or 4th fiddle on a bona fide contender.  Is he a guy you rebuild with?  Possibly, but you'd need to have a lot of good talent around him. 
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    I agree

    He is clearly a SF save for a few match-up driven moments as a PF. That is fine b/c it can rest PP/Ray and is his natural position and we have KG/Baby... BUT... he has yet to show that he can be the 6th-7th man SF this team needs

    We do not need the half the time awkward half the time looking good (as much as a feed him the ball blackhole off the bench 'good' can be) combo-forward Green has shown up as

    we need a gritty pain in the @ss bothersome defender of long wings who will make sure that Deng and LeBron NEVER get a moments rest, in the 44 mins they play... b/c Green and a 'rested' (33-37 min PP) will be on them 100% of the time.

    We need a guy who will go at worst 1-3 and at best 2-5 on 3 pt shots, making one of them a backbreaker. A guy who will have a clutch steal or block at a moment that will demorolize the foe. A guy who will run with Rondo/Dwest and get a vicious oop or smooth layup 1-2 per game that NEVER is botched...

    A guy who is 80% at the line in 3-4 attempts a game

    A guy who battles for 1-3 VERY tough boards over an Artest/Marion type in addition to the 2-4 he gets otherwise

    Then after those 9-10 points per game I mentioned above, he gets 4-6 in the flow of them game, playing his game

    All in all, we need a 24-26 minute, 14-15 point, 5-6 rebound, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1-2 block, 45/40/85 guy in the playoffs who plays meaningful and obnoxious D on elite SF's

    As of March 22nd i have not seen that in him more than 2-3 games of his 11-12 here. It is what we need if we are to win a title.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    hope Green signs the $5.9M deal for first yr , with raises to $10-12M , with $12M option for 4th yr

    great player to team with Rondo and Big 3

    hope both Jeff Green and Big Baby Davis get signed to 3+ yr deals

    would like to see Delonte back for another year too...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green is a significant long term talent. He's got a ton of upside. He's a positive five to eight years of NBA starting career ahead of himself. He brings something to the court every time he steps on it. Other teams have to plan for him. 

    $ Doesn't matter he fits here, he's got Standells Dirty Water stuff about him.    
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: I was wrong about Jeff Green

    Green will play in multiple All Star games. He is 24, DURABLE, versatile and a threat at multiple positions on both ends of the floor .
     

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