Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    They do have a similar game. McKey was a very good player. He was about 6'10, thin, fast, good shooter and ran the floor well. McKey was also an intelligent player. I think Green possesses all those positive abilities that McKey had.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    I feel I correctly pointed out from day one of the trade, that Green was tentative, and his decision making left a lot to be desired. I was lambasted on BDC, and thought best to return to the discussion once Green had numerous games played and a more specific role with the C's.
    I still don't see it with Green. Yes he is long. Yes he can run. His shooting is better than I thought it would be. However, his temperment on the court is not to be the difference maker. 
    One can argue on this team, he need not be that difference maker. But I disagree. Anyone on the court can come up with the decisive play to turn the game around. We have seen it with non big 4 such a BBD or DWest making the key play, or last year even Nate the Great had times to step up. 
    I have yet to see that with Green. 
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    In Response to Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey:
    [QUOTE]Green at the 3 and Pierce at the 2 creates matchup problems for other teams. But instead we play Green at the 3 and Ray at the 2. I don't get it.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    I too would like to see this more. it's also a good way of cutting down both ray and pierce's minutes, without a huge dropoff in production.

    I can only think that he hasn't figured out our defense yet (it normally takes new players ages)
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    Derrick McKey is a great comparison.  McKey could play the 3 or 4 and he seemed to do lots of things effortlessly, so much so that he looked passive at times even though he was a good player.  Basketball does seem to come easy to Green, let's hope he has the killer instinct come playoff time.     

    I've said this before about Green.  To me he is the 3rd or 4th best player on a contender.  If he's in your top 2, you are in trouble.  If Ainge can rebuiild this team using those expiring contracts at some point and keep Green in his complementary role, great.  I can't see him being someone who Ainge can build around post-big 3.  If he's here long term he's going to need a lot of help because he's not carrying this team. 

    With that being said, I do think he will get better as he eventually gets more minutes.   
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    Mckey if memory is correct was a candidate for the all defensive team numerous times. I don't see that in Jeff Green.
    I also think that Green is a better shooter than Mckey.
    I think that Green is a 6th or 7th man on a team that is a contender for the championship. 
    I question his salary for next year and if he fits in the C's long term.
    If signing 2 of the 3 is the option, who would you sign? BBD, Green or Kristic? For me I would sign BBD and Kristic if possible 
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    rkarp

    Not sure I see Green here long term, but to me if the C's don't re-sign him and if they don't win the title they would have given up a valuable guy in Perk for a short term player who may not have been as crucial to a championship run than Perk was.  I think I would've rather tried to rebuild with Perk and BBD over BBD and Kristic.  I cannot imagine Kristic gets that much money on the open market anyway, but you never know with deals like Brendan Haywood, Darko, etc.  

    Green has some value as a contributor to a title contender.  Whether it's the right asking price to stay in Boston at contract time, I don't know.  I can't imagine Danny would let Green walk without something valuable in return.  Maybe a sign and trade?  Maybe sign him to a reasonable contract and include him in a deal to get another KG-type player when the right opportunity comes up?  Who knows?     
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    Rkarp,
    You make good points as always, but Green has not been allowed the chance to be a difference maker on this team.  He just does not get the ball enough in the game.  Rondo doles out the ball in a pecking order and PP and friends are very set in their ways.

    The question is are they trying to integrate him into the offense.  I think so, I hope so but I am not sure.  Green can be a difference maker if he gets the ball.  

    It is clear the guy is a scorer and creator.  Mckey by the way did not have the offensive skills set of Green.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    If Jeff is just aggressive enough to go to the hoop, he is unstoppable ala Reggie Lewis or James Worthy, right now he is passive because of his HOF teammates so he does kinda look like Mckey. But this guy's game has not peaked in anyway shape or form yet so we cannot really say how he is...PP is still in tiptop shape albeit reaching the end of his peak so we still go to PP a lot, but JG has all the tools to become an allstar if he sets his mind to it... He just really needs to get that killer instinct and he'll be well loved by fans.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    West , Paul, and Green at the 123 would be super tough team to defend. 
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/04/05/green-not-living-up-to-celtics-hopes-yet/ here is an si article talking about Green's contributions so far.. They seem to imply that he is better suited for the small forward slot much better than in the pf position. Probably due to getting muscled by bigger, stronger pfs.
    At the same time, isn't that why the Celts made the deal? Increase versitality and bench strenght, while trading away a possible free agent to be, one dimensional center.
    Lets not forget that we got Kristic too. ( i don't think they made the trade expecting either one to be an immediate starter.) eventhough  Kristic was thrown in due to the injuries to the Oneal's.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    In Response to Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey:
    [QUOTE]I feel I correctly pointed out from day one of the trade, that Green was tentative, and his decision making left a lot to be desired. I was lambasted on BDC, and thought best to return to the discussion once Green had numerous games played and a more specific role with the C's. I still don't see it with Green. Yes he is long. Yes he can run. His shooting is better than I thought it would be. However, his temperment on the court is not to be the difference maker.  One can argue on this team, he need not be that difference maker. But I disagree. Anyone on the court can come up with the decisive play to turn the game around. We have seen it with non big 4 such a BBD or DWest making the key play, or last year even Nate the Great had times to step up.  I have yet to see that with Green. 
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Couldn`t agree more. Green had negative +- for OKC and I`m willing to bet its the same w/ the C`s.With all his gifts, he`s less valuable tha BBD.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    Green needs to play about 6-8 mins a game at PF w/ the 4 all-stars, putting arguably our best 5 guys on the court at the same time.

    [Baby needs 14-16 mins with those 4]

    Then Green needs another 18-20 mins at SF. He should see those mins split w/ both Pierce and Ray at SG.

    Wasn't one of the points of a shortened playoff rotation and the Green trade to allow Pierce to become the backup SG??

    That is how Posey was used in '08.

    PJ Brown and Posey shared the crunch time mins.... like Baby and Green now should. Posey and Pierce split time on D against great SF's like LeBron.... like Green and Pierce now should.

     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    Looking back at '08... I think we should have the personel to have the same type of rotations.

    Rondo plays a little more than he did and makes a little more impact. KG a little less. Other than that our 4 all-stars have the same expectations and roles. Ray, if you remember, couldn't hit a shot and had a bunch of 2-8 point games the 1st two rounds.

    Baby takes all of Perk's mins, while basically taking Powe and P.J Brown's roles.

    Kristic takes PJ's mins and Jermaine takes Powe's mins... while basically taking Perk's role.

    Green takes Posey's mins and role. Just needs to bring that grittiness. We know he has more talent in a similar, but younger and more athletic, body.

    Delonte takes house's role... not as awesome when he has the hot hand like E House was... but D West does EVERYTHING else better at PG.

    IMO the '11 Rondo is as much better than '08 Rondo has the current KG version is worse than the '08 defender of the year.

    Pierce is slightly worse. Ray actually better considering his '08 struggles. As a duo I expect the same production.

    So would you rather have Brown, Powe, Posey and House or Kristic, Jermaine O'Neal, Baby, Green and Delonte??

    I take our current crew. With Shaq as the wild card.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    First I think Green is a better all around athlete and is better in the post but isn't as good as a passer,good comparison though. I think Green should be the 1st option on the 2nd unit. I'm noticing Doc has beengiving jeff a bigger and bigger role the last couple of games. I could see Green being our 6th man minute wise  in the playoffs.Greens versatility on both ends of the floor will be a factor in the playoffs.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    In Response to Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey:
    [QUOTE]Looking back at '08... I think we should have the personel to have the same type of rotations. Rondo plays a little more than he did and makes a little more impact. KG a little less. Other than that our 4 all-stars have the same expectations and roles. Ray, if you remember, couldn't hit a shot and had a bunch of 2-8 point games the 1st two rounds. Baby takes all of Perk's mins, while basically taking Powe and P.J Brown's roles. Kristic takes PJ's mins and Jermaine takes Powe's mins... while basically taking Perk's role. Green takes Posey's mins and role. Just needs to bring that grittiness. We know he has more talent in a similar, but younger and more athletic, body. Delonte takes house's role... not as awesome when he has the hot hand like E House was... but D West does EVERYTHING else better at PG. IMO the '11 Rondo is as much better than '08 Rondo has the current KG version is worse than the '08 defender of the year. Pierce is slightly worse. Ray actually better considering his '08 struggles. As a duo I expect the same production. So would you rather have Brown, Powe, Posey and House or Kristic, Jermaine O'Neal, Baby, Green and Delonte?? I take our current crew. With Shaq as the wild card.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    It's interesting to compare and contrast like you just did. I'd take it a step further and compare those two teams with the other two from the new Big Three era. My take is that the league as a whole is overrated. With some luck, the Celtics could be looking at a four-peat. Now they are fighting to stave off one-hit wonder status.

    KG looked mighty spry last night. But you are correct. This year's KG and even Paul are not as good as they were during the title year. However, basically that year the Celtics were heads and shoulders above every other team. KG and Paul don't have to be that great for us to get #18. They are still very good to go with being hungry, wiser, and persistently unselfish.

    Ray has been incredible this year. But his legs are tired from carrying the team. Doc should shut him down a game or two like he did for Rondo. Maybe one of these Wizard games. Ray's 35. Doc's pushing him like he just turned 30.

    I always liked Delonte when he was a Celtic. Eddie was a great shooter but one-dimensional. This team is now much stronger at guard than during any other window year. Last night Doc finally went a bit with Paul at the 2 and Green at the 3. So let's see. Rondo, West, Ray, and Paul for guards. Paul and Jeff for sf. KG, Baby, and Green for pf. Jermaine, Krstic, and Shaq for center. That's a very strong ten man rotation. If we face the Lakers, two of those centers could probably play pf. The Lakers edge for bigs could be easily neutralized. Doc really has no excuses not to lead this team to #18. There will be a lot of pressure on Doc. I think he and Ainge will either end up being run out of town as a tandem or neither will ever have to pay for another drink or meal.

    I actually think the Celtic team with the best chemistry was the year KG was sidelined. They just didn't have enough talent to overcome his loss. For this year, the margin of error for injuries is now very low. Those ten guys are very good, but the other five on the roster aren't.

    I'm going to go out on a limb and predict an even easier time attaining #18 than #17. The latter we had trouble winning on the road until we figured it out against the Pistons. Chicago and Miami have proven nothing. Only Chicago scares me in the East and not even that much. I think they could be this year's Cleveland and get bounced by Orlando in the second round. If we then face Superman in the ECF, I don't think he'll be able to hack us as much as he did last year without Shaq, Jermaine, and Krstic giving it right back to him or his teammates. The only thing I worry about the Magic is their ability to play dirty and hurt Celtics.

    I'm predicting Celtics-Lakers for the Finals, with the winner getting bragging rights for who has been the better team over the last four years. I hated the trade.Then I liked it. Then when it looked like Shaq and Krstic were finished, I hated it again. Now that Jermaine is looking good and Shaq and Krstic should be able to contribute in the playoffs, I like it again. I definitely like how Pierce, KG, West, and Rondo have played lately. Hopefully Doc can find a way to recharge Ray and better integrate Green into the rotation. If he can do those two things, I don't think this team can be jinxed.
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    I think he is a young player learning every day.  Its funny how so much is expected from a 24 y/o.  I think he is progressing just fine.  Doc said he was on him recently for his rebounding and defense, and the kid responded with his highest rebound total (7) and the most blocks (3) he has had since coming here.  I look at him like a sharpened swiss knife who just needs direction or else he is useless.  How do you expect him to be agressive rigth away while playing with 3 of the best all time players??  It took Rondo 2 years to do it.  As long as he is taking coaching and improving, Im fine with it.  He is a swiss army knife that can cut you many ways, but he needs to be told his role and he is slowly giving this team what they need when they need it...I think he explodes in the playoffs!  I would sign him at all costs....Give me another comparable player at his age that isnt demanding big $$
     
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    Re: Jeff Green Reminds Me of Derrick McKey

    another thing not mentioned in regards to his agressiveness is the lack of calls he has gotten since coming here.  The refs have not given anything to this kid and he has got some of the worst calls on him I have seen in a while...Its almost like since he is new he is being treated like a rook again. With P.P., K.G. and Ray, its gonna be hard for him to get calls, cuz these refs aint gonna give everyone the same respect, so by default Green and Kristic are getting the short end of the stick in terms of calls and it unfortunately may have an effect on how many minutes they get in postseason, cuz we cant play them too much if they dont get calls.  I think his lack of agression(which I really dont see as much as everyone else) is more to do with him being scared to get fouls and come out the game...the guy cant play good "D" without getting calls, but last night he was allowed to do more..so hopefully he is getting more respect.
     

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