Lesson to Doc tonight

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : Working with we got is Ainge not doing his job.  Here's why: 1. With what we got we're not elite. That means middle of the pack team. 2. We get nothing if we just let Ray's contract expire.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    If we can get something for him I agree 100%. 
    Ainge has his hands tied on making changes.  Wilcox and Dooling prove that out. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In response to "Re: Lesson to Doc tonight": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : Working with we got is Ainge not doing his job.  Here's why: 1. With what we got we're not elite. That means middle of the pack team. 2. We get nothing if we just let Ray's contract expire. Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE] You get Ray 's play this year if he's not traded and you get the cap room at the end of the year. If we trade him, we get more instability with yet another mid year new player ( crap shoot for sure) and likely someone under contract for multiple years so we are stuck with that contract and less flexibility for the future. I say just ride it out, keep our powder dry and don't panic taking some more second tier talent. Maintain the ability to be aggressive in trades next year with lots of assets in hand.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from modod. Show modod's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    I don't get to see the Celtics on TV much in my area. I had to watch the Orlando broadcast last night. Here's my concern.

    The five that started the game and those that subbed in played team defense. It started with Bradley on their PG, but if the other C's out there were not playing their man tight, Bradley's effort would have been wasted. The intense team defense broke up Orlando's patterns and timing, resulting in the horrific shooting night they had. I'm concerned that inserting a player that is soft defensively simply gives the opponent an out, making the other C's have to cheat a bit, taking pressure off their man and leading to easy baskets.

    Rebounding: I don't think I saw JO get a single, contested rebound. Every rebound he got he was in open space. KG got into the mix under the hoop several times, but was usually outnumbered and unsuccessful.

    Pace: It was nice to see more than one Celtic on a fast break. Some of the games I did see, it was depressing to see Rondo all alone against 3-5 opponents on a fast break. At times, though, I had to scream at the TV when they just stood around and reverted to the one-on-one crap. I would see them set up and just know that the guy with the ball was going to put up the shot, not matter what or who was open. The other four just stood there, no movement at all. And, of course, no rebound on the miss.

    Sure hope this is the start of something and not just a detour along the slide.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronnie0729. Show ronnie0729's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    Rondo off of the bench? A first teamn NBA defender adn an All-Star, get serious. Ray who is still the best 3 pt shooter in the NBA and guards the 2nd guard on every team. Get serious. It' s A good thing you guys aren't involved with the Celtics. Most of the younger teams will do well in the first 20-30 games, the more experineced teams will takeover in the last 20-30 games. Know your basketball!     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from c.wright. Show c.wright's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    I think Bradley did an excellent job, start him forever. There was energy,
    rebounding, and not as many turn overs ...the rythm was there last
    night, the defense certainly was in tack...hope the same energy and
    playings efforts are there on Thursday night. I had to check my calander
    to see if it was 2008, 09, or 10. Great job C's!!!!!! Let those injured take
    there time and heal.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : To me Ray's value would be playing alongside the youngsters...........they can run up the court and Ray can be the trailer .......ie getting open looks because the defense is guarding the paint........the way our starting five is now....Rondo pushes it up and waits for everyone and the defense is all ready set once we start to run our plays.......ie RA gets few open looks.....
    Posted by damfuno[/QUOTE]


    Smart thinking and I agree with you.  But, to do this, Ray doesn't need to come off the bench.  He just needs to play some of his minutes with the subs (same for Paul and KG).  Second thing needed is:   REBOUNDS.   Most nights, we don't get enough boards to be able to run (young guys NOR old guys) and that was a BIG part of the difference last night.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    Wow.....one night of Sasha having a good game and now having him in there is more valuable than Ray Allen? You wrote that before you thought about it, right?
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    I did watch the game last night.  Sasha had a nice game.  He had 9 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists.  Ray averages 15 points, 3 rebounds, and 2.5 assists.  I'm not sure how giving up Ray for another rebounder and replacing him with the one hit wonder called Sasha helps.  In the one hit wonder's best game, he had energy and still was less productive than Ray (he has a whopping one more rebound and no assists and fewer points and that is in his BEST outing of last year and this year).

    Contrast that with some other stats.  Last night, the combination of JON, KG, and Bass had 27 rebounds.  Their average is 17.  That increase in production had NOTHING to do with Sasha.  It had everything to do with the energy they all brought.  

    Now, we know they can't do that every night and we know that the Magic won't play that poorly every night, so I'm all for getting another rebounder.  But, you'll have to replace Ray's production and he's not as bad of a player in other areas as you think.  He stinks on D, but his assists are not bad and his assist to turnover ratio is third among the starters.

    I continue to hold to my basic approach - Danny......hold tight.  Don't give up your cap flexibility for some trade this year that locks you into multi year, overblown salaries that won't deliver a championship.  Wait until the end of Feb/early March and make trades if/when you see this team can't make the playoffs.  If you can trade Ray for a top 10 player in the league, do it.  If you're just going to get a rebounder who won't win you a championship - don't do it!!!
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    Fierce, I must have misinterpreted your post.  I'm sorry.  Here's what it said (quote):

    "Last night we outrebounded the Magic and we won. The difference was Sasha's hustle, he was going after loose balls. Sasha even blocked 2 shots and also had 2 steals.

    Having Pietrus or Sasha in there gives us more athleticism and length at the SG position."

    From reading that, I think many people would make the same assumption I made about what you were saying.  Sounds very much like to me you're saying we can trade Ray because Sasha can more than replace him with is steals and 2 blocked shots (the only two in a year).  Ok...so now you're saying that's not what you meant.  I accept that.

    What Tommy says???  Surely that isn't your measure of credibility.  he says a lot of things like how Jermaine can shoot the 15 footer a lot and that's a good play for us.  Right! 

    Pietrus is a better defender.  He's not going to be able to play shooting guard. Sorry - I don't buy that.  He's a good player, but not the player to replace Ray.  That's ok, reasonable minds can disagree on this.

    As for the amnesty, if I'm Wyc, I don't just say "hey, use the amnesty if the guy stinks".  It still cost real dollars.  Those dollars don't count against the cap but you still have to pay the player a big payoff and get no production.  That's wasted money.  NOt a way to make money as an owner.

    All of this is beisde my main point:  I don't want to eat up cap space unless its a significant upgrade to a championship team.  Danny's tinkering has already damaged this team enough.  More trades and locking up future salary removes flexibility (or costs money in an amnesty move).  Keep the powder dry and make trades that get us a game changer.....not another mediocre player Doc has to try to somehow incorporate mid season again.  Nate, Sasha, Murphy, Arroyo, Wilcox, and others have not worked out.  PLEASE, Danny, don't make another rash move. Wait out the season.  If we are losing because we are bad, then so be it - our draft choices are better that way to go with our cap room.

    No short term dumb moves, please.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In response to "Re: Lesson to Doc tonight": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : I never said replace Ray with Sasha. We trade Ray, Pietrus becomes the starter. KG and JO are only averaging 12 rebounds per game. Both of them need to average at least 15 per game. Bass is above average with his 6.5 rpg. It's not about Ray's 3 rebounds per game. Besides getting the actual rebounds, I don't know if you've heard Tommy Heinsohn complain about Ray not boxing out, but when Ray is in the paint he doesn't box out. Every time our bigs help on D and Ray is inside the paint, it usually results in an offensive rebound for the opponent.  And why worry about salary cap flexibility when we still have the amnesty card? If we get a player for Ray and it doesn't work out then amnesty the guy. The only players we can use the amnesty on, with our current roster, are Pierce, Rondo, Bass, and Bradley. I don't think Ainge will use the amnesty on any of them. So we have room for error.  Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE] Also, acquiring young talent via trade may be the C's best chance of getting proven talent. Most of the young franchise talent in the league is either locked into a contract with their current team, or they do not have a desire to come to Boston
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    The most important thing right now is that Doc not go back to the old rotation pattern.

    Keep Sasha and Bradley in the games and see how it works out for awhile.  Use Dooling and Wilcox and see how it goes for several games.  Ray off the bench, Rondo and Bradley in together pressuring the ball and Sasha playing some real minutes.   Give it a try and don't waver.  The starters can't play the minutes they use to get anyway.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]The most important thing right now is that Doc not go back to the old rotation pattern. Keep Sasha and Bradley in the games and see how it works out for awhile.  Use Dooling and Wilcox and see how it goes for several games.  Ray off the bench, Rondo and Bradley in together pressuring the ball and Sasha playing some real minutes.   Give it a try and don't waver.  The starters can't play the minutes they use to get anyway.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]


    Already tried Sasha with significant minutes (starting) in the beginning of the season.  Sasha stunk.  
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : Once Ray comes back Sasha will not be playing again. The only way Doc is not going to give Ray 30+ minutes is if he's injured or not with the team anymore.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]


    That's true, Fierce.  The only difference in our views here is whether that is a good thing or not.  

    We simply disagree on the reason we won last night.  Many folks think Sasha and Bradley were the difference because Rondo and Ray weren't there.  I think the difference was Paul, KG, JON, and Bass playing well and the Magic not playing well.  Sasha helped.  Bradley helped even more (no Rondo gambling).  Even Marquis played well and when does THAT ever happen?  Orlando's horrid shooting night helped. But, I can't agree that Sasha and Bradley made the difference because this is one game and I've seen them in too many other games where they stunk.  One game of great play does not offset a history of bad play.  

    And watch Ray play closely.  You'll see some horrible passes and then you'll see some good passes.  You'll see some rebounds and of course, shooting.  

    Let's see how it goes next game.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In response to "Re: Lesson to Doc tonight": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : I agree. That's why CP3 didn't want to come to Boston, because the Celts are already an old team. We already played the Bulls and the Heat. We only lost because of Rose's 3-pointers and Norris Cole's 4th qtr. heriocs. We're only a big man away from being an elite team again.   Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE] Agreed... Ray is the obvious choice to package for a missing piece. The second most expendable option that is at the same time a potentially valuable trade asset would be Rondo. If the goal is to compete with Miami and CHicago in the east this year, the C's need to hold on to PIerce unless some team makes them an offer they can't refuse. Pierce is a clutch leader that will be difficult to replace in season. I think the C's may receive offers for Rondo from contenders that need a PG (lakers, Knicks, etc.) around the deadline. I also would not be surprised if NJ is willing to deal when they realize they won't get Howard
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : Already tried Sasha with significant minutes (starting) in the beginning of the season.  Sasha stunk.  
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    I am sure you have played team basketball before of some sort.  A guy who has stunk and is on the squad plays well and is integral in a big win you keep playing him.  Really what's so hard to understand about that.  He stinks again you sit him back down.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : Once Ray comes back Sasha will not be playing again. The only way Doc is not going to give Ray 30+ minutes is if he's injured or not with the team anymore.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    If he does that with Ray and leaves Sasha out of the rotation, we have a coaching problem

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Lesson to Doc tonight

    In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Lesson to Doc tonight : If he does that with Ray and leaves Sasha out of the rotation, we have a coaching problem
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    I would be surprised if Sasha is included in the rotation when RA returns. Doc seems very dependent on playing his Big Four... no matter what.

    He seems to think that this gives the team/him the best chance of winning.
     
    Doc seems afraid to experiment and try different combinations because they may not work IMHO. Very short-sighted.

    Pud
     

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