NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List

    Funny man......you know, today's athletes are bigger and stronger with all of the supplements and weight training....but they don't play basketball very well....sure they can run and dunk but the rules aren't enforced any more...I hate the 3 point shot....I think it's a gimmick and I don't believe a lucky shot from around half court should win a game by one point at the end....get the 3 pointer out of the game...just my opinion.....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List

    As a follow up to my last post, there are many out there that don't think Bill Russell would have fared well against today's centers.....but look at the names on this list that he, in fact, excelled against:

    Wilt Chamberlain
    Nate Thurmond
    Willis Reed
    Elvin Hayes
    Wes Unseld

    A few excellent pivot men not on the list has to include Walt Bellamy, Zelmo Beaty, and Walter Dukes....am I missing anyone?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    I have read all of the posts that refer to the Celtic titles of the late '50's through 1969 as having been won when the league was "in it's infancy".........actually that is not the case.....it seems that the modern NBA began at several different periods in time, depending on the age of the poster.......so, did the modern era began with the" Jordon years"?.....or with the "Magic/Bird Era"?....did it begin with the NBA/ABA merger?.......actually the modern NBA began with the advent of the 24 second shot clock and several other rules changes....before this occurred the  NBA was quite a different league.......with no shot clock teams could freeze the ball....before the rule changes after a basket was made there was a jump ball.....the new rules that changed the league  included limiting the number of fouls a team was allowed....the games that followed ushered in a new brand of basketball....I decided to look at the league's list of the top 50 players of the first 50 years.....now, we know that there will probably be an updated list and many names from the last decade will be added.....but looking at the list I found some interesting names....if you take a look at players who were in the league up to 1960 the number is 14:

    Paul Arizon
    Elgin Baylor
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Bob Cousey
    Hal Greer
    Sam Jones
    George Mikan (only name on the list that did not play in the modern era)
    Bob Petit
    Oscar Robertson
    Bill Russell
    Dolph Schayes
    Bill Sharmon
    Jerry West
    Lenny Wilkins

    From 1961-1969 12 more were added:

    Dave DeBusscher
    John Havlicek
    Jerry Lucas
    Nate Thurmond
    Willis Reed
    Rick Barry
    Billy Cunningham
    Dave Bing
    Walt Frazier
    Earl Monroe
    Elvin Hayes.
    Wes Unseld

    That means that during the time the Celtics won their first 11 titles, from '57  to  '69, over half the players on the list played in this era.....many others were added during the '70's & '80's.....

    I believe this shows the strength and stability of the NBA before the league was expanded and, ultimately watered down.....and yes, I know the league is an international one now....but, top to bottom, the rosters were deeper and the brand of basketball played was better than we see today......I'm well aware that some on this board will disagree with me.....we are all entitled to our opinions right?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mem17. Show mem17's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List

    Many of the players mentioned here I saw play. Many of those players would still be great players in this era.
        A quote from the movie Cobb, played by Tommy Lee Jones. In reno NV. a night club entertainer invites Ty Cobb from the audience to talk to him on stage. The entertainer asks Cobb. What batting average do you think you would have if you played against todays players? Ty Cobb replied " oh about 290." The entertainer replied, " why only 290?" Because I'm 70 years old you dumb ------.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BDCDottie. Show BDCDottie's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    There you go, Duke.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Thanks Dottie......you are a doll!!!!!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Great thread, Duke, and all's well that ends well, eh.

    Lots of history there in your lists and it's wonderful to read those names and conjure up some images from old film I have seen.  I think you are right in many respects.  Even though only about 400? players are good enough for the NBA today, that's twice as many as when the number was under 200.  Of course there has been a watering down of talent even as there has been advances in nutrition and training.

    And didn't the player of bygone eras have a natural dislike for players on other teams because they were fighting for the money and were not a fraternity of multi-millionaires.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    You are absolutely right my friend.....these guys were fighting for championship prestige AND championship money back in the day.....the play was unbelievably physical especially in the mid to late '50's....Wilt Chamberlain was physically abused his rookie year and only his mild mannered temperament kept him from literally knocking an apponent out....thanks again for your help pal!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Looking back at the centers Russ faced back in the '60's....they beat the hell out of the (very few) top centers of this league today....I mean really...take a look at the top flight, well rounded, everyday big men.....how many are there right now?  .....not as many as in Big Bills day....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    The league began to be watered down with the intro of the Wolves, Magic, Hornets and Heat. Not to say that those towns don't deserve teams, but the quality of the basketball goes down a little in my mind. 

    Unfortunately I can never see the league contracting, more teams will be introduced or you'll see teams (franchise) move from one city to a new one, like the Seattle franchise did recently. 

    With that top 50 list. I liked it, didn't agree with with some of the players who made the list. Was good seeing the players from the early days get on the list and continue to get recognition for their game. Still surprised only Mikan made it from the Minneapolis Lakers era. But the game was radically different in that era.

    Wouldn't mind seeing an NBA at 75 to add new players to the list, some guys may have moved into the top 50 others may drop out. Just so long as they don't make it 75 players when it's the leagues 75th Birthday. It would dilute the list just too much Wink
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    In Response to Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics:
    [QUOTE]The league began to be watered down with the intro of the Wolves, Magic, Hornets and Heat. Not to say that those towns don't deserve teams, but the quality of the basketball goes down a little in my mind.  Unfortunately I can never see the league contracting, more teams will be introduced or you'll see teams (franchise) move from one city to a new one, like the Seattle franchise did recently.  With that top 50 list. I liked it, didn't agree with with some of the players who made the list. Was good seeing the players from the early days get on the list and continue to get recognition for their game. Still surprised only Mikan made it from the Minneapolis Lakers era. But the game was radically different in that era. Wouldn't mind seeing an NBA at 75 to add new players to the list, some guys may have moved into the top 50 others may drop out. Just so long as they don't make it 75 players when it's the leagues 75th Birthday. It would dilute the list just too much 
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]

    Elgin Baylor was on that lakers team!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Should have emphasized from the championship Minneapolis Laker teams. Elgin only played two seasons when the team was based in Minneapolis.

    I was thinking more along the lines of Jim Pollard and perhaps Herm Schaefer. Although like the Celtics before the arrival of Russell, the Lakers though talented, didn't win anything until the arrival of Mikan. 




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Although I haven't seen any stories in the last 25 years regarding Baylor's history of knee injuries, I remember reading of the teams plane doing a crash landing during a road trip.....the story said that Baylor laid down in the back of the plane rather that putting the seat belt on....he was quoted as saying "if I'm going to die I'm going to do it in style"....at least that's how I remember it....anyone else heard of this or am I getting delusional in my old age?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Hey, speaking of a fraternity of millionaires, wasn't Bob Cousey's big contract for $22,500 the largest of the day.  Wilt got scorned for refusing an offer of $25,000.

    These guys worked in the off season as insurance men, salesmen, labors, farmers and what not.  They had more or less ordinary bodies and mainly worked on their conditioning for the running and endurance part of the game.

    What would a Cousey, Russell, or Chamberlain be worth today, given the advances in training and nutrition and the opportunity to be full-time athletes:  they'd blow the lid off of any of these guy's contracts.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Good point "ski"....actually Wilt signed a new contract for $100,000 around 1965 or so.....in a really cool move, the Celtics signed Russ to a new contract of $100,001....one dollar more than Wilt's....they said they figured they owed it to Russ to pay him more than Wilt based on all the championships.....true story man!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    I just happened to check out Worthy's profile.....one of my favorite posters....and...she is a "chick"?  ......Man, I am blown away....and sorry, I don't mean to sound like a chauvanist....I love babes...err....I mean girls.......um....women.......anyway.....RU.....you are absolutely among the best I've read from the left coast.....keep 'em coming.....you are my type of guy...err....well, you know what I'm sayin' right?  ....no disrespect intended....as I said.....your posts are fun, right on, and respectfull.......you da....oh never mind!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    In Response to Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics:
    [QUOTE]I just happened to check out Worthy's profile.....one of my favorite posters....and...she is a "chick"?  ......Man, I am blown away....and sorry, I don't mean to sound like a chauvanist....I love babes...err....I mean girls.......um....women.......anyway.....RU.....you are absolutely among the best I've read from the left coast.....keep 'em coming.....you are my type of guy...err....well, you know what I'm sayin' right?  ....no disrespect intended....as I said.....your posts are fun, right on, and respectfull.......you da....oh never mind!!
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]

    LOL


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Glad I didn't offend you there.....all in good fun.....and your posts are excellent...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    The list below, couldn't you substitute names like Tommy Heinsohn, for instance for some of those names as well as a few other who played in that time period?

    Paul Arizon
    Elgin Baylor
    Wilt Chamberlain
    Bob Cousey
    Hal Greer
    Sam Jones
    George Mikan (only name on the list that did not play in the modern era)
    Bob Petit
    Oscar Robertson
    Bill Russell
    Dolph Schayes
    Bill Sharmon
    Jerry West
    Lenny Wilkins
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TeamUmbutu. Show TeamUmbutu's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Comparing players from different eras is always fun but always suspect.

    Rules, how rules are called, styles of play, racial barriers, income motivation, training programs, star calls, an international pool of talent, and skill sets, are different in different eras.

    Since there is no objective way to compare teams and players from these eras, it is not clear that any concrete conclusions can be drawn from a subjective list.

    I do agree that the exercise can be enjoyable.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    In Response to Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics:
    [QUOTE]The list below, couldn't you substitute names like Tommy Heinsohn, for instance for some of those names as well as a few other who played in that time period? Paul Arizon Elgin Baylor Wilt Chamberlain Bob Cousey Hal Greer Sam Jones George Mikan (only name on the list that did not play in the modern era) Bob Petit Oscar Robertson Bill Russell Dolph Schayes Bill Sharmon Jerry West Lenny Wilkins
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Oh absolutely, Heinny could be added....I just went off the official NBA Top 50 list celebrating 50 years of the NBA.....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    In Response to Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics:
    [QUOTE]Comparing players from different eras is always fun but always suspect. Rules, how rules are called, styles of play, racial barriers, income motivation, training programs, star calls, an international pool of talent, and skill sets, are different in different eras. Since there is no objective way to compare teams and players from these eras, it is not clear that any concrete conclusions can be drawn from a subjective list. I do agree that the exercise can be enjoyable.
    Posted by TeamUmbutu[/QUOTE]


    I thought Tommy Heinsohn was from that era.  He played from the mid 50's to the mid 60's.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    Oh he was.....unfortunately he isn't on the official list....unless I missed something....Tommy-Gun was a great player....also a championship coach and a great ("homer") announcer that would make Johnny Most proud....
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: NBA's 50 Greatest List and the Celtics

    I wasn't around to see Heinshon play but Russell has said that the only forwards who could touch him were Elgin Baylor and Bob Petit.  Heinshon never got the really gaudy stats because the Celtics had such a balanced offense. 

    There were a of of players who could have made that top 50 list.  For centers, I could see Artis Gilmore and Bob Lanier, for forwards besides Heinshon, I can see Bernard King and Dominique Wilkens, for guards, Maurice Cheeks, Dennis Johnson and Sidney Moncrief.

    I'm sure that there are others.
     

Share