No interest in building through the Draft

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    No interest in building through the Draft

    According to DA Ainge isn't interested in building through the draft
    http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/23/thunder-core-here-for-haul/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

    Ironically the item on the C's follows one on OKC and Presti's excellent plan he had for his francise; carefully building through the draft, maintaining cap space and now they're ready to start an extended period of contending for banners.
    It took them 3 years.
    I wouldn't mind this strategy but maybe Ainge knows he's a subpar talent evaluator and sees it as the least favorable rebuilding route.
    Any thoughts?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    DA's evaluations have been very off lately but I also don't think the C's feel that they can afford to take 3 years to rebuild because this isn't Oklahoma; it's title town where they have to constantly fight for their TV ratings, Ad dollars, and seat revenues with the other winning franchises in this town.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    There has been a 20 year drought in title town, 3-4 years makes a difference?

    Here's some more:
    The main criteria for assuming contender status is having a top-10 player on your roster, and ideally a top-5 player.
    Unless you have a top-10 player you are almost certainly not a legitimate contender.
    The teams that are the most serious contenders tend to be teams with two top-10 players,
    or one top-five player and two or three players who are in the top-30.
    To think you can win titles by playing that incremental game and bypass having a top-10 player is fool’s gold.
    NBA history is littered with excellent teams like the 70s Chicago Bulls, 80s Milwaukee Bucks and
    90s Indiana Pacers that won 50-60 games many times but, with the exception of the 2000 Pacers,
    never got to the NBA Finals, not to mention won a title. They lacked the necessary superstar.
    It is why current teams like the Hawks, Sixers, Jazz and Pacers may possibly have superb regular season records,
    but almost certainly will not win the NBA title.

    This is the necessary context to understand the current options facing Danny Ainge, the Celtics’ Majordomo.
    The sad reality is that for the visible future all the great top-10 players in the NBA are either tied to other teams
    or clearly not coming to Boston. This really changes everything, because it means in all likelihood that the next
    Celtics superstar is not even in the league yet. And that means the Celtics rebuild, even of it goes as well as possible,
    is going to take three or four years. This is a bitter pill to swallow, but it is the truth.

    I prefer this route rather than becoming another Atlanta.
    Good or bad, we don't want to be tweeners do we?
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]A loss tonight against the Magic would really pressure Ainge to make a deal sooner than later.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Or, play the rookies, see who's worth keeping and enjoy the lottery!
    Let Ray, KG and Jon come off the books, trading Pierce won't bring good draft picks, and suppose(!) we get Gasol, will he lead us to promised land? I wouldn't bet on it.
    What I do like; if we can get Eric Gordon in free agency for example, combined with good draftees added to Rondo, Bass, Pierce, Pietrus and maybe Green. We wouldn't hit rock bottom and have some nice young pieces to groom or trade.
    The other (trade) scenarios are longshots.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from GinaM1977. Show GinaM1977's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    Danny knows that Boston is good enough to be the 8th seed in the weak East and they will not have any good draft picks this year. It's hard to build through the draft with Boston's mediocre draft picks this year.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    Despite the fact the C's are not elite team right now, they do have options. The question is which one will Danny choose. Building through the draft is a great plan, but it takes a lot of luck. If you look at the projected starters in this years All-Star game, 4 of the 10 players were number 1 picks. Only one of those 10 players was drafted outside the top 6 ( Bynum #10). These are all major franchise players in the NBA. I personally believe the C's should try to acquire as much young athletic talent as they can by trading 1 or 2 of their big 4 in some package deal this year. Making those deals may allow them to compete for a championship this season. After the season, try to lure a top free agent.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]Despite the fact the C's are not elite team right now, they do have options. The question is which one will Danny choose. Building through the draft is a great plan, but it takes a lot of luck. If you look at the projected starters in this years All-Star game, 4 of the 10 players were number 1 picks. Only one of those 10 players was drafted outside the top 6 ( Bynum #10). These are all major franchise players in the NBA. I personally believe the C's should try to acquire as much young athletic talent as they can by trading 1 or 2 of their big 4 in some package deal this year. Making those deals may allow them to compete for a championship this season. After the season, try to lure a top free agent.
    Posted by Accension13[/QUOTE]

    Given that the Cs are a below .500 team and that's no fluke, I think we can honestly say that the Big 4 aren't very big... or very good anymore.

    It takes something good to get something good . We obviously don't have much good to trade.

    Its really that simple.

    Pud
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    The C's have assets.
    1) Ray Allen - Best outside shot in the game, experience, potentially great influence on young players, and an expiring contract.
    2) Rondo - Arguably a top 15 player in the league, good PG, and a long term low dollar contract for "star"
    3) Pierce - Clutch player, Good Scorer, Could make a contending team a favorite
    4) Two #1 picks this year, and 1 #1 each of the following years.

    Those assets plus various combinations of roster filler could bring back something decent. The fact that the discussions have already started and names like Gasol and Indy's Paul George have been mentioned says that the C's can get a good deal done
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]The C's have assets. 1) Ray Allen - Best outside shot in the game, experience, potentially great influence on young players, and an expiring contract. 2) Rondo - Arguably a top 15 player in the league, good PG, and a long term low dollar contract for "star" 3) Pierce - Clutch player, Good Scorer, Could make a contending team a favorite 4) Two #1 picks this year, and 1 #1 each of the following years. Those assets plus various combinations of roster filler could bring back something decent. The fact that the discussions have already started and names like Gasol and Indy's Paul George have been mentioned says that the C's can get a good deal done
    Posted by Accension13[/QUOTE]

    Getting back something "decent" doesn't make the Cs competitive.

    We are presently "decent" but barely.

    On paper, the Cs look pretty good.

    On the court where it counts, not so good. If the Cs looked as good on the court as they do on paper, we would probably not be having this conversation.

    The sum of the parts equal the whole.... and the whole is 6-9 and going nowhere. That speaks loudly about the parts that make up the whole.

    If we do nothing, we will suk this year but at least we will have money to spend next year pursuing FAs (due to expiring contracts), assuming they are willing to come to Beantown.

    Pud
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from myaim45. Show myaim45's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]The C's have assets. 1) Ray Allen - Best outside shot in the game, experience, potentially great influence on young players, and an expiring contract. 2) Rondo - Arguably a top 15 player in the league, good PG, and a long term low dollar contract for "star" 3) Pierce - Clutch player, Good Scorer, Could make a contending team a favorite 4) Two #1 picks this year, and 1 #1 each of the following years. Those assets plus various combinations of roster filler could bring back something decent. The fact that the discussions have already started and names like Gasol and Indy's Paul George have been mentioned says that the C's can get a good deal done
    Posted by Accension13[/QUOTE]

    It's a positive outlook, but I am really worried that Ainge will continue his historic run of drafting bad player (not named rondo).
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    Pud, I understand your point. But what the C's can get back depends on the movitation of the team they are trading with and Danny's creativity.

    Example 1: Pierce for Gasol. Gasol is not working in the Laker's new system. For the C's, Gasol would provide a talented starting post scorer to the C's lineup. His addition could rejuvenate KG because he wont be depended on as the primary post scorer or rebounder.

    Example 2: Pierce for P. George. Indy would do this because they believe they could win this year. Adding Pierce would provide veteran go to guy in the playoffs to go along with Granger. For the C's, P. George could be a stud. A 6'10 ish SG who is incredibly athletic, excellent defender, and can hit the 3. They would be instantly more athletic. He and Rondo on the break could be exciting


    Example 3: Allen to Minny ( Not a rumor, just a concept I like ). Minny would take Ray because they believe they can make the playoffs and they need an outside shooter. Making the playoffs means would be a huge lift to this franchise. They have too many wings and PF's, and are shopping Beasley. If the C's could land Beasley/Randolph and/or Wes Johnson for a package including Allen, they would be more athletic and much more active on the boards. Beasley has had his problems, but he is the type of high risk\high reward that is worth taking. If he fits in, he could become the C's go to scorer or instant offense off the bench

    To me, these are all feasible possibilities. If they could gel with the remaining vets in this shortened season, anything is possible
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]A loss tonight against the Magic would really pressure Ainge to make a deal sooner than later.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    With Wilcox, Ray, Petrius, Dooling, and Rondo out tonight I think DA knows that they will lose for sure. What scares me is considering all the home game they are losing now and looking at their future schedule that they may not get over .500 until after the trade deadline.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    For those thinking we can do what the Thunder did - it requires MULTIPLE years of being fortunate enough to have very good picks.  Getting a Durant is obviously rare.....like drafting a Bird, a Lebron, and MJ, or a Wade.  Then add about 4 or 5 other great draft choices.  Possible, but not probable.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In response to "Re: No interest in building through the Draft": [QUOTE]For those thinking we can do what the Thunder did - it requires MULTIPLE years of being fortunate enough to have very good picks.  Getting a Durant is obviously rare.....like drafting a Bird, a Lebron, and MJ, or a Wade.  Then add about 4 or 5 other great draft choices.  Possible, but not probable. Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE] Agreed! As I said before, the C's have options. Rebuilding on the fly is the way to go, but they need to commit to make tough decisions like moving Ray now
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from binbones. Show binbones's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft : With Wilcox, Ray, Petrius, Dooling, and Rondo out tonight I think DA knows that they will lose for sure. What scares me is considering all the home game they are losing now and looking at their future schedule that they may not get over .500 until after the trade deadline.
    Posted by wfdog[/QUOTE]

    87-56 so much for what...wfdog & danny know " for sure."
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: No interest in building through the Draft : Remember, in 2009 it was Gasol and Odom that led the Lakers over the Magic in the Finals. Andrew Bynum, 6.3 ppg and 3.7 rpg, was a non-factor in the playoffs that year. And in 2010 Gasol outplayed our KG in Game 7 for the title. So saying Gasol will not take us to the promised land is simply not true.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Suppose it happens, Pierce for Gasol in some way;
    this season we most likely wouldn't win it all, Gasol would need time to adjust
    without training camp etc. And Gasol would be the nr 1 guy on our team right?
    How good a player he is, he can't handle that role.
    Next season when he'll be 32 going on 33, together with Rondo and Bass we'll be a nice team but no contender. 2009/2010 Gasol does not equal 2012/2013 Gasol. I don't want us to become another Atlanta or Indiana.

    And they'll probably make the playoffs anyhow this season, maybe we'll get to the 2nd round. That's a graceful exit for the Big 3. Unfortunate maybe, no lottery pick.
    But I don't buy into all the other trade scenarios being tossed up here either.
    Like Pud says the truth is they have little value left.
    But it was worth it, and we knew it was going to end someday.
    I'd still prefer building through the draft, I can live being bad for 5 years as long as you know you're going in the right direction.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]According to DA Ainge isn't interested in building through the draft http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/23/thunder-core-here-for-haul/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 Ironically the item on the C's follows one on OKC and Presti's excellent plan he had for his francise; carefully building through the draft, maintaining cap space and now they're ready to start an extended period of contending for banners. It took them 3 years. I wouldn't mind this strategy but maybe Ainge knows he's a subpar talent evaluator and sees it as the least favorable rebuilding route. Any thoughts?
    Posted by srinivasa[/QUOTE]

    Of course Danny is not interested in rebuilding through the draft - (1) he cannot assess talent, (2) he has not had the opportunity to identify actual talent, (3) he has had many many many players that he drafted where he left many many many players on the board that were much better than the players than he selected.......... 

    Danny has a legacy to maintain and by somehow believing that building through the draft he has to ignore OKC, Phil, ATL, and so on and so forth.......  if you don't want to build through the draft then why is everyone trying to figure out how to get the #1 draft pick from several years ago - Dwight Howard.....  

    THE ONLY WAY TO GET BETTER IS TO GET INTO THE LOTTERY AND ADD ACTUAL BLUE CHIP DRAFT TALENT.....   well unless of course you have a bunch of really bad contracts and can convince stupid GMs to take your bad players for their bad contracts.....

    I predicted 38 and 28 and I still think they can get there which is the absolute worst thing they can do..........
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: No interest in building through the Draft

    In Response to No interest in building through the Draft:
    [QUOTE]According to DA Ainge isn't interested in building through the draft http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/david_aldridge/01/23/thunder-core-here-for-haul/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 Ironically the item on the C's follows one on OKC and Presti's excellent plan he had for his francise; carefully building through the draft, maintaining cap space and now they're ready to start an extended period of contending for banners. It took them 3 years. I wouldn't mind this strategy but maybe Ainge knows he's a subpar talent evaluator and sees it as the least favorable rebuilding route. Any thoughts?
    Posted by srinivasa[/QUOTE]

    Of course Danny is not interested in rebuilding through the draft - (1) he cannot assess talent, (2) he has not had the opportunity to identify actual talent, (3) he has had many many many players that he drafted where he left many many many players on the board that were much better than the players than he selected.......... 

    Danny has a legacy to maintain and by somehow believing that building through the draft he has to ignore OKC, Phil, ATL, and so on and so forth.......  if you don't want to build through the draft then why is everyone trying to figure out how to get the #1 draft pick from several years ago - Dwight Howard.....  

    THE ONLY WAY TO GET BETTER IS TO GET INTO THE LOTTERY AND ADD ACTUAL BLUE CHIP DRAFT TALENT.....   well unless of course you have a bunch of really bad contracts and can convince stupid GMs to take your bad players for their bad contracts.....

    I predicted 38 and 28 and I still think they can get there which is the absolute worst thing they can do..........
     
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