Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

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    Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/11/14/ainge-upcoming-draft-not-as-spectacular-as-everyone-makes-it-out-to-be/

    This isn't the first time and probably won't be the last time Danny has thrown cold water on the 2014 draft class. Ainge insists there's no franchise player in this draft yet again. Could he be sincere in saying that when there is indeed no Tim Duncan or Shaq, a franchise center ... something the C's dearly need, as well as a top notch SG?

    Is Danny just talking down the value of this draft? But if he really intends to tank, why would he talk down the value of a pick he may get? If he gets the 3rd pick in the lottery and wants to trade it, hasn't he done himself and the franchise a disservice letting other GM's know he doesn't place alot of value on this asset, hence the possibility of getting less in return for it if traded? Shouldn't he be pumping the players in this draft to his own benefit if he gets a top five pick and wants to flip it? And if he intends to keep what he gets, why isn't he playing it close to the vest and keeping quiet?

    And before you say I'm naive, I know that Danny likes to misdirect the masses and other GM's away from what he is really thinking. But, could it be that Danny is prepping us for a move out of the draft and into a trade involving our pick or maybe he's being honest for once. Mazz thinks Ainge is serious!!! As Mazz sees it, Danny really sees no franchise player, after all,  none of these 3-4 players everyone is drooling over is taller than 6'9" !!! No Duncan, No Howard and can any of these guys be as good as LBJ or Durant? If he doesn't see (or doesn't get a high enough pick anyway) Randle, Wiggins or Parker as a go to guy then does he settle for Exum or Selden at SG or take a flyer on Cauley-Stein or Embiid at C? If Ainge is serious and being honest, why bother tanking ... continue to improve your current assets, work some trades and consider some free agents if you are too good already. Should you land in the lottery then take the best you can get, unless another team wants our pick bad enough to trade us a sure thing.

    A review of the projected picks by HoopsHype doesn't even find the C's picking in the top 14!

    http://hoopshype.com/draft.htm

     

    That being the case ... If Ainge is signaling that he's not that enamored with this draft and intends to trade his way back into contention here are a few ideas to resolve some of our problems at SG and C and fill some of our holes ....

    Anthony Marrow @ $1.1MM (current salary) and Spencer Hawes ($6.5MM currently) whose coming into his prime at 25 y.o. are relative bargains that can help to establish a core until we sign the other 2 stars we need. If we are already assured of one in the 2014 draft as you think and have the ability to sign a FA or work a S&T with our TPE this summer then these two guys can make a big difference leaving us maybe one player short. But Danny still has that big expiring contract in Hump and other bodies and picks as well that he can use to trade for that missing star.

    Hawes is in the top 6 of all centers in scoring and rebounding among the best centers in the league ... names bandied around these pages all the time as guys we should trade for ... Horford, Vucevic, Kanter, Cousins, Gasol (both), Pekovic, Lopez, Jordan, Gortat & Drummond.
     When Hawes gets scooped up by another smart GM and becomes an intricate piece in attaining a championship elsewhere, the same posters will wonder why we didn't go after him when we had a chance.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/position/centers

    Morrow is astounding at hitting the three ... he may not be the all around player you want as a starting SG but he can be a that guy off the bench when you need the long ball and has the potential to every bit as good as Ray Allen who himself wasn't know for much more than hitting the deep ball.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct/position/shooting-guards

     

    Potential Roster Before use of Draft Pick/s, TPE or Trades

    C: Hawes - Fav - Oly

    PF: Sully - Bass - Oly

    SF: Green - Wallace - ???

    SG: Bradley - Morrow - Brooks

    PG: Rondo - Crawford - Pressey

     

    This roster can be improved with Additional Trades/Draft Pick/s and use of TPE for a FA/S&T

     Asik ... Hayward ... Gay???

    Would Toronto and the C's do Wallace/Bogans/Pick for Gay? Is Gay overpaid or duplicitus with Green? Could we play Gay at the SG ala Wallace with Green at the SF? Would Houston trade Asik for Hump or Bass and Lee? Could a deep bench with one $19MM player, one $13MM player and four $8-10MM players be as affective as one with two/three $18MM players? Depth with speed that never tires means running other teams' core players into the ground.

    Asik ($8.5MM Cap) - Hawes ($8.5MM) - Fav ($2MM)

    Oly ($2MM) - Sully ($1.4MM) - Green ($9.2MM)

    Green - Gay ($19MM) - Hayward ($7.5MM)

    Gay - Hayward - Bradley ($6MM) - Morrow ($2MM)

    Rondo ($13MM) - Crawford ($6MM) - Pressey ($750K)

     

    $86MM in team salary but remember, if the C's can stay under the tax cap this year to avoid the repeater tax then they can go over the apron next year. The trick is working the Asik & Gay deals so they don't push us over the apron but that s/b doable as long as Lee & Bogans are moved with Hump or Bass and Wallace. Hayward, Hawes and Morrow wouldn't be added till after the season is over so no problem with them.

     PS: I throw the Gay trade out there for your consideration. To cut down on the cap we could keep Bass at PF and forget about Gay though some insist we need a Superstar. Gay & Rondo qualify as two stars with Green bringing up the rear. But With Green and Hayward at SF we'd be fine and we also have Osby in Me who could be a third option potentially.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    This post is genuinely interesting and makes a very good argument.

     

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wicksandrowe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    This post is genuinely interesting and makes a very good argument.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't make sense because there's no way the Celts can get Hawes if Ainge doesn't dump Bass and Lee.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Read again ....  "The trick is working the Asik & Gay deals so they don't push us over the apron but that s/b doable as long as Lee & Bogans are moved with Hump or Bass and Wallace. Hayward, Hawes and Morrow wouldn't be added till after the season is over so no problem with them."

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    The Celts also can't go over the apron next season.

    Here:

    “Starting in 2016, a team is a repeater if they were taxpayers in any three of the previous four seasons [for 2016, that'd be 2011-12 through 2014-15],” Coon writes. “That means any team that was a taxpayer in either 2012 or 2013 would be a repeater if they are a taxpayer in both 2014 and 2015. Most teams will be able to avoid the repeater penalty. A few teams, like Brooklyn, probably won’t care.

    “Take a team like the Celtics, for instance, who had no problem committing to payroll that would put them over the tax threshold when they were trying to contend for a title over the last few seasons,” Pollakoff writes. “They’re rebuilding this year and next at minimum, but after those two years out of the tax, they could add free agents and load up for another run at the title by spending whatever it costs for the next three seasons, all the while avoiding the dreaded repeater tax.”


    Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/08/celtics-could-benefit-from-nba-luxury-tax-loophole-in-long-term-future/




    C's won't be taxpayers this year (2013-14') ... Ainge is keeping the team payroll at the apron and will be below the apron at season end. That avoids three consecutive years as a taxpayer meaning he can go over next year (2014-15').  Try again!

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Read again ....  "The trick is working the Asik & Gay deals so they don't push us over the apron but that s/b doable as long as Lee & Bogans are moved with Hump or Bass and Wallace. Hayward, Hawes and Morrow wouldn't be added till after the season is over so no problem with them."

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said, let's talk after the Celts get enough cap space.

     

    Working Asik and Gay deals are just your ideas, not Ainge's.

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey, I'm just showing you an alternative to the draft nonsense ... you said it can't be done and I say it can. Am I saying Danny will do "exactly" this?  Don't be an IDIOT like usual.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    This is the last post on this subject to you cuz your a child! Sorry you don't like my post but instead of shooting the messenger .... well, you get it!

     

    Here's the rule;

    The "clock" began last year. The first year of the repeater tax is in 2014-15. Only teams that have been taxpayers in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 will pay it. In 2015-16, teams that have paid the tax in three out of four of those seasons will pay repeater tax. Then 2011-12 falls off. And so it goes.

     

    So if Danny avoids the tax this year he is exempt in 2014. Starting the 2015-16' if he has paid tax in 3 of previous 4 yrs (11-12', 12-13', 13-14', 14-15') the the repeater tax kicks in again. All he has to do to avoid it then is avoid being a taxpayer in 2014-15' .... Also doable if/when he renews Gay's contract.


    Now you can argue with yourself over this fact .....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    Danny would never mislead anyone, least of all media and fans, about his intentions.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    11 posts later and counting, fungus has once again trashed what started out to be an interesting thread.

    fungus, the attention wh0re, living up to his name.

    Pud

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    This is the last post on this subject to you cuz your a child! Sorry you don't like my post but instead of shooting the messenger .... well, you get it!

     

    Here's the rule;

    The "clock" began last year. The first year of the repeater tax is in 2014-15. Only teams that have been taxpayers in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 will pay it. In 2015-16, teams that have paid the tax in three out of four of those seasons will pay repeater tax. Then 2011-12 falls off. And so it goes.

     

    So if Danny avoids the tax this year he is exempt in 2014. Starting the 2015-16' if he has paid tax in 3 of previous 4 yrs (11-12', 12-13', 13-14', 14-15') the the repeater tax kicks in again. All he has to do to avoid it then is avoid being a taxpayer in 2014-15' .... Also doable if/when he renews Gay's contract.


    Now you can argue with yourself over this fact .....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You're wrong.

     

    If you don't believe me then believe the article.

    Here:

    “They’re rebuilding this year and next at minimum, but after those two years out of the tax, they could add free agents and load up for another run at the title by spending whatever it costs for the next three seasons, all the while avoiding the dreaded repeater tax.”

     


    It's simple math, Mployee.

    3 out of 4, so if the Celts were taxpayers in 2012, 2013, and 2015, that's 3 out of 4 right?

    The Celts need to be below the tax line this season and next season.

    [/QUOTE]

    Last time!

    The "clock" began last year. The first year of the repeater tax is in 2014-15. Only teams that have been taxpayers in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 will pay it. In 2015-16, teams that have paid the tax in three out of four of those seasons will pay repeater tax. Then 2011-12 falls off. And so it goes.


    You have to be a taxpayer three consecutive years (11-12', 12-13' & 13-14') to pay the tax in the 2014-15' season and the C's will not be a taxpayer this season (2013-14').

    Starting the following season (2015-16') any team that has been a taxpayer three of the last four will be subject to the tax. That means if you paid tax in three of the following years (11-12', 12-13', 13-14', 14-15') you will be subject to the tax for 2015-16.'  So if the C's pay no tax this season (2013-14') they have to become a taxpayer in 2014-15' to become subject to the tax for 2015-16' season.

    But under this senario the rebuild will be complete and the tax won't be the harshest penalty unless they go over $85MM so my numbers can be messaged by $1MM to get down from $86MM to $85MM ... Hahaha. The ownership will pay tax for a championship team so they'd re-evaluate how successful this team is by 2016' and go from there.

    And when teams sign FA's or do a S&T in the future to get around the three year tax rule I wouldn't be surprised if we see more poison pill type contracts written (unless there is some new rule prohibiting it in the new CBA that I'm unaware of) with front, backend or middle of the contract year overloaded to help manage team salary so they can be under 2 yrs and over 2 yrs out of the four year span. That will make for all sorts of free agents in the future and teams that plan on having cap space can take advantage of other teams' woes.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Last time!

    The "clock" began last year. The first year of the repeater tax is in 2014-15. Only teams that have been taxpayers in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 will pay it. In 2015-16, teams that have paid the tax in three out of four of those seasons will pay repeater tax. Then 2011-12 falls off. And so it goes.


    You have to be a taxpayer three consecutive years (11-12', 12-13' & 13-14') to pay the tax in the 2014-15' season and the C's will not be a taxpayer this season (2013-14').

    Starting the following season (2015-16') any team that has been a taxpayer three of the last four will be subject to the tax. That means if you paid tax in three of the following years (11-12', 12-13', 13-14', 14-15') you will be subject to the tax for 2015-16.'  So if the C's pay no tax this season (2013-14') they have to become a taxpayer in 2014-15' to become subject to the tax for 2015-16' season.

    But under this senario the rebuild will be complete and the tax won't be the harshest penalty unless they go over $85MM so my numbers can be messaged by $1MM to get down from $86MM to $85MM ... Hahaha. The ownership will pay tax for a championship team so they'd re-evaluate how successful this team is by 2016' and go from there.

    And when teams sign FA's or do a S&T in the future to get around the three year tax rule I wouldn't be surprised if we see more poison pill type contracts written (unless there is some new rule prohibiting it in the new CBA that I'm unaware of) with front, backend or middle of the contract year overloaded to help manage team salary so they can be under 2 yrs and over 2 yrs out of the four year span. That will make for all sorts of free agents in the future and teams that plan on having cap space can take advantage of other teams' woes.

     



    The rebuild will be complete?

     

    So your team below is a championship team?

    C - Asik, Fav

    PF - Oly, Sully

    SF - Gay

    SG - Green

    PG - Rondo

     

    Seriously, are you nuts?

    That's not a championship team.

     

    Remember, there will be no Spencer Hawes if the Celts are a tax payer next season.

     

    Again, are you nuts?

    [/QUOTE]


    Try this ... Three trades from 12/15 to trade dealine, One FA Signing in off season;

    1) Wallace, Bradley & Bogans for Gay ... Increase in this years team salary by +$750K

    2) Bass & Faverini for Asik ... ($8.75M-$8.3M) Reduction in this years team salary -$450K

    3) At trade deadline, Humphries for Hawes/Brown/Allen... ($12M-6.5M-3.1M-3M)

                                                                    Increase in this years team salary +$600K

    4) Sign Morrow over summer with trade exception

     

    Net change in this years team salary +$900K or $72MM

     

    (Team has Bird Rts on Crawford, Brooks, Pressey, Hawes, Brown and Allen)

     

    2013-14'     Season End Roster         vs             2014-15' Starting Roster

     

    C > Asik       $8.3M (cap hit)                             $8.3M

    C > Hawes   $6.5MM                                         $8.5M (???)

    Allen             $3.12M                                         $0

    Brown           $3M                                              $0

    F/C > Oly    $1.98M                                          $2.08M

    F/C > Sully  $1.37M                                         $1.42M

    F > Gay       $17.89M                                        $19.32M

    F > Green   $8.7M                                            $9.2M

    G > Lee      $5.22M                                          $5.45M

    G > Brooks    $1.3M                                        $2M (???)

    G > Crawford  $2.16M                                     $4M (???)

    G > Rondo    $12M                                          $13M

    G > Pressey  $.5M                                           $1M (???)

    G > Morrow    $0                                             $2.5M

    F >  Osby       $0                                              $1M (???)

    Total               $72M (rounded)                          $78M (rounded)

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Once again Ainge throws cold water on the 2014 draft

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    1) Wallace, Bradley & Bogans for Gay ... Increase in this years team salary by+$750K

    2) Bass & Faverini for Asik ... ($9.75M-$8.3M) Reduction in this years team salary -$1.45M

    3) At trade deadline, Humphries for Hawes/Brown/Allen ... ($12M-6.5M-3.1M-3M)                                                                            Increase in this years team salary+$600K

    4) Sign Morrow over summer with trade exception

     

    All 3 trades work, but out of the 3 trade proposals, 2 doesn't make sense for the other teams.

     

    3. The question is why would Philly do the trade when they can get more for Hawes?

    Kwame Brown and Hawes both have expiring deals.

    So why would Philly settle for just Humpy?

     

    1. If Toronto wants to save money by trading Rudy Gay, accepting Gerald Wallace's contract is not the answer. 

    Gay only has 19.3m left after this season.

    GW has 20.2m left after this season.

    And Toronto already has DeRozan and Terrence Ross, so why would they want AB?

     

    2. Bass and Fav for Asik could happen. 

     

     

     




    Humpy?   The Fungus argument that losing Hawes gets them top lottery pick and they get entire $12M cap reduction for next year to spend as they'd like vs losing Hawes to another team and best case scenario is a S&T for another teams player that may not be exactly what they want. This way Philly is in control of their own destiny .... They get a top 3 draft pick and cap space for a free agent of their liking.

     

    Wallace?  Toronto will need another SF and Wallace provides veteran leadership for the next two seasons. Bradley makes the numbers work as does Crawford. Bradley is a trading chip that Danny has been unable to extend and Toronto could flip him in a S&T.

     

    Remember, it's only an example of what can be done. Nobody is "claiming" that Danny would do this or the other teams involved would either. It's an example of what can be done. And, I only put out the Gay trade to appease guys like you that insist we need another Superstar/Elite player. As I said on the original post, I put it out there for those interested in a big deal but am pperfectly satisfied for now holding Hump to the deadline if need be for the best deal possible but it seems to me that the Raps are looking to move him and if they're in a hurry Danny should strike while the iron is hot. Once he's a Celtic he's another asset that can be flipped or kept.

    And are you serious ... this roster can't compete? They'd run their competition ragged!

    C: Asik - Hawes - Oly

    PF: Sully - Oly - Green

    SF: Green - Gay - Osby (???)

    SG: Gay - Morrow - Crawford

    PG: Rondo - Crawford - Pressey

    (Lee & Brooks could also be dealt ... Picks/player/etc to reduce our cap)

     

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