People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    i know Rondo plays with goons that will eventually be in the HOF bc of their career accolades. but i hate when people say rondo does what he does bc hes playing with hall of famers.

     none of these guys are in their primes anymore. im not saying they are all washed up, but its fair to say that kg is 1/3 of the player he used to be. Paul is still very effective, but is a step slower than he used to be, and Ray Allen is simply a 3 pt specialist. again, im not putting these guys down AT ALL, bc they are still great. but they arent all Prime time superstars anymore, so some ppl need to stop acting like all of Rondo's accomplishments are due to them.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    ?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    [QUOTE]?
    Posted by MinnesotaCelticsFan[/QUOTE]


    disagree?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from champton37. Show champton37's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    What is J Hillz talking about KG is still a force and paul and ray still get the job done. Rondo is the reason why they still run but dont throw salt on KG and them
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    im not saying they arent good anymore. they are all still great. but they arent in their primes anymore so we need to stop acting like everything kobe does is due to the big 3
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from champton37. Show champton37's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    J Hillz is Rondo the best PG in the league?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    James you claim that the hall of famer thing is over stated and then you do the opposite, and understate the other starters contributions. When these Celtics play the way that they can, they all play a strategic and irriplacable part in winning. The Big three spread the floor for Rondo on offense, and team defense is the team's engine that  makes everything else work. Together they are more than the sum of their parts. KG is still the leader of the defense, Ray is Mr. Clutch, Paul gets his own shot, and they all work like a well oiled machine. Selfless on offense, tough and focused on defense. All are still capable of great individual performances, but reign in thier egos for the common goal, winning the championship.

    Individual crap is what the other teams do, and that is why the Celtics will win.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from teh-n00b. Show teh-n00b's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    [QUOTE]i know Rondo plays with goons that will eventually be in the HOF bc of their career accolades. but i hate when people say rondo does what he does bc hes playing with hall of famers.  none of these guys are in their primes anymore. im not saying they are all washed up, but its fair to say that kg is 1/3 of the player he used to be. Paul is still very effective, but is a step slower than he used to be, and Ray Allen is simply a 3 pt specialist. again, im not putting these guys down AT ALL, bc they are still great. but they arent all Prime time superstars anymore, so some ppl need to stop acting like all of Rondo's accomplishments are due to them.
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    I get what you're saying, and I think this post was mainly directed at dud and pud, who think that with 4 hall of famers all rondo should have to do is show up and we would win.

    at this stage of their careers, the big 3 and shaq need rondo more than he needs them. none of them can consistently create their own shot with a reasonable degree of efficiency anymore, so it's up to rondo to set up KG and shaq for dunks and lobs, give KG, PP and RA open mid rangers, and set up PP and RA for 3pters.

    ray allen used to be able to take people off the dribble and dunk on them, or pull up to drain contested 3s. KG used to abuse people in the post and dunk like crazy. pierce used to repeatedly drive into the paint and draw fouls every time. shaq was one of the most unstoppable forces we've ever seen.

    this is why they will be in the hall of fame. but these are not the same players who are rondo's teammates now.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly. : I get what you're saying, and I think this post was mainly directed at dud and pud, who think that with 4 hall of famers all rondo should have to do is show up and we would win. at this stage of their careers, the big 3 and shaq need rondo more than he needs them. none of them can consistently create their own shot with a reasonable degree of efficiency anymore, so it's up to rondo to set up KG and shaq for dunks and lobs, give KG, PP and RA open mid rangers, and set up PP and RA for 3pters. ray allen used to be able to take people off the dribble and dunk on them, or pull up to drain contested 3s. KG used to abuse people in the post and dunk like crazy. pierce used to repeatedly drive into the paint and draw fouls every time. shaq was one of the most unstoppable forces we've ever seen. this is why they will be in the hall of fame. but these are not the same players who are rondo's teammates now.
    Posted by teh-n00b[/QUOTE] 


    exactly wat i was trying to say.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneNation. Show OneNation's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    Everyone slows a bit, no doubt. I take exception at labeling Ray a 3 pt specialist. His rotation on the team D end against N.Y. was very good. I also think you'll see his mid range game come back as Boston goes deeper into the playoffs. His 3 pt prowess is his main weapon, but I still think he can get other things done on the offensive end. Also, didn't KG just have a dominating game?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickFaldo. Show NickFaldo's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    I took offense at the word goon, but now see it was satirizing Dudder's use of racist code words such as thugs and ebonics.

    The post makes a lot of sense. Without Rondo, the Celtics have no chance. Arroyo is mediocre at best. West is too hurt to play 40 minutes let alone much more than 20. Rondo is the one guy who if he gets injured, we are done.

    That's not to say our chances wouldn't also drastically drop if one of the other Big Four or even JO got hurt. This team can't afford many more lost minutes from the rotation.

    Rondo is a unique talent who in many ways is behind held back by the Big Three. But that's ok. We've got one title and a good chance for another. Eventually though, as in starting next year, I think this will finally become more of a Rondo running team. I don't think Doc's returning. For guys like Green, Wafer, and Krstic, we can only hope that's true. Doc's trying to gut out a title on the backs of the Big Four. I finally accept that. Good play from Green now will be gravy. It's probably too late for Wafer to have any role. We will need Shaq to return or JO-Krstic need to play like they did in the Knicks series. I know Krstic has been off the last couple weeks, but his last game was very encouraging. JO might be the hungriest non-Big Four on the team. Thankfully Big Baby is also looking much better.

    I will gladly eat some crow pie on behalf of Doc's coaching if this gut it out strategy works. I don't think it should continue next year. The Big Three window has been over for two years since KG got hurt. Then it became the Big Four window. I think that window closes after this playoff. I think the team must adapt to this reality next year if the Celtics want to continue as true contenders. That means Ray shouldn't play more than 30 minutes a game starting next year. Players like Green, Wafer, and Krstic will need more minutes and responsibility.

    For now I will jump on the "In Doc We Trust" bandwagon. Yet, just like we needed KC Jones in place of Fitch, I think we will need a new coach for going forward. But who cares about next year, when this team is clearly better than the one which almost stole a title last year? I don't, especially when there could very well be no season next year anyway.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    "Rondo is a unique talent who in many ways is behind held back by the Big Three."

    I think Pud and Dud are both wrong about Rondo, however, this statement is just as bad the other way.

    Rondo is a unigue talent, his speed and ball handling capability make him perfect for this team. If Rondo did not have other serious threats to draw attention, his speed and driving ability would be completely neutralized, with out an outside shot to go with those skills.

    The Celtics stopped Lebron year after year, and had a much better outside shot than Rondo.

    The rumor of the demise of the big three is sorely overstated, as is the value of Rondo without the big three.

    When Doc and KG go, this team will not seriously contend for many years.

    Enjoy the ride this year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    [QUOTE]i know Rondo plays with goons that will eventually be in the HOF bc of their career accolades. but i hate when people say rondo does what he does bc hes playing with hall of famers.  none of these guys are in their primes anymore. im not saying they are all washed up, but its fair to say that kg is 1/3 of the player he used to be. Paul is still very effective, but is a step slower than he used to be, and Ray Allen is simply a 3 pt specialist. again, im not putting these guys down AT ALL, bc they are still great. but they arent all Prime time superstars anymore, so some ppl need to stop acting like all of Rondo's accomplishments are due to them.
    Posted by JamezHill24[/QUOTE]

    hmmmm... still all-stars aren't they?  you don't want people to use the words hall of famers but there is a coach in the league that would like to see how Rondo plays not surrounded by as much talent...... that is just about all that needs to be said.  Imagine Rondo's stat line if it was Bill Walker, Tony Allen, Krstic, and Baby.  2 assists, 18 missed jumpers, 9 layups - 3 of them missed, 3 steals, and 9 rebounds....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    That's not the only reason he is effective but you look at someone like Chris Paul and their is no comparison.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    I recall that Rondo tried making his own mark w/o the Big Three to hold him back this past off-season.

    TEAM USA I recall. Need I say more?

    Maybe RR will tire of playing unappreciated in the Celtic shadows and demand a trade soon, just like he bailed on FIBA team when he thought he  should be "da man."

    Now that would show some serious sack.  Go for it, All-Star PG.

    Referring to our Big Three as "goons" and mistakenly calling Rondo... Kobe?????

    Houston.... we have a problem!

    Pud
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from teh-n00b. Show teh-n00b's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly. : hmmmm... still all-stars aren't they?  you don't want people to use the words hall of famers but there is a coach in the league that would like to see how Rondo plays not surrounded by as much talent...... that is just about all that needs to be said.  Imagine Rondo's stat line if it was Bill Walker, Tony Allen, Krstic, and Baby.  2 assists, 18 missed jumpers, 9 layups - 3 of them missed, 3 steals, and 9 rebounds....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    we only have small sample sizes to work with, but in the 09 playoffs, when KG was injured, rondo averaged a triple double.

    in the final game of last season, doc rested the big 3, and rondo went off for 20 points and 15 assists.

    if you seriously think that rondo would go 6 for 27 with 2 assists, you are completely delusional.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MinnesotaCelticsFan. Show MinnesotaCelticsFan's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    Guys, it is not about the stats, lots of guys get stats. It is about winning.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.

    In Response to Re: People use the "Hall of Famers" title too strongly.:
    im not saying they arent good anymore. they are all still great. but they arent in their primes anymore so we need to stop acting like everything kobe does is due to the big 3
    Posted by JamezHill24


    Wait ... what? Did you mean Rondo here? If so, I agree. Though I object to the term "goon" in the OP.
     

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