Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

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    Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    Does anyone want to try and guess what they are about.  We have seen many of them play out...and Pierce last time he was asked about it,. brushed it off and said, Oh, we always do that.  I wont sit here and tell you I know what it is, but Judging by the timing of it, I think Pierce is telling Rondo to shoot when he is open...something he does sometimes and other times he avoids shooting like the plague.  Now you guys know I have defended Rondo all throughout his slump, but I did say once the playoffs started, no excuses for anyone.

    The one thing that has always bothered me about his play is when he avoids taking those open shots, it messes up the flow of offense, cuz the ball stops, so if you not gonna shoot, atleast keep the ball moving, but he starts driblling and then kick it to someone not ready to shoot or in a bad position and this is what I think Pierce is telling him, but Rondo doesnt seem to ever have a positive reaction to those talks, so thats discouraging.  I refuse to make excuses for guys in the playoffs, and I love Rondo, but he said himself, not to make exucses for him, cuz they are a no excuse team...so with that being said...(gulp)

    Would this team be doing better with Jeff teague or Holliday at pg?  those are 2 young pg's that come to mind when I think of guys that atleast can shoot consistently and dont pass up shots... Teague may be just as fast, can finish and shoot and plays with energy every night,..Im just saying if we gonna have the same core players maybe we need to start thinking of a guy who can keep the offense on shedule when other guys are not on.  Green is the only guy with young legs we have besides Rondo, but you never know when Rondo is gonna shoot or not...its almost like the only time he looks for his shot is if he has a good shootaround because you have games like the one against the spurs where he took every open shot and made most of them, and some games he refuses to take it....that cant happen...we need more consistent play and accountability from him...and yes I appreciate what he does and what he has done this posteason...just thinking ahead a little and playing devils advocate...I have always supported him, so I think its fair to ask....
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    Fierce, do you ever think players of K.G's caliber would entertain coming off the bench,. or ray for that matter?   I just dont see us making any runs with the core playing big minutes...we keep running out of gas in April and looking slow at the end of games....and with the money they make its hard to think you get anyone good to start before them, so do they blow it up?
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    In Response to Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone want to try and guess what they are about.  We have seen many of them play out...and Pierce last time he was asked about it,. brushed it off and said, Oh, we always do that.  I wont sit here and tell you I know what it is, but Judging by the timing of it, I think Pierce is telling Rondo to shoot when he is open...something he does sometimes and other times he avoids shooting like the plague.  Now you guys know I have defended Rondo all throughout his slump, but I did say once the playoffs started, no excuses for anyone. The one thing that has always bothered me about his play is when he avoids taking those open shots, it messes up the flow of offense, cuz the ball stops, so if you not gonna shoot, atleast keep the ball moving, but he starts driblling and then kick it to someone not ready to shoot or in a bad position and this is what I think Pierce is telling him, but Rondo doesnt seem to ever have a positive reaction to those talks, so thats discouraging.  I refuse to make excuses for guys in the playoffs, and I love Rondo, but he said himself, not to make exucses for him, cuz they are a no excuse team...so with that being said...(gulp) Would this team be doing better with Jeff teague or Holliday at pg?  those are 2 young pg's that come to mind when I think of guys that atleast can shoot consistently and dont pass up shots... Teague may be just as fast, can finish and shoot and plays with energy every night,..Im just saying if we gonna have the same core players maybe we need to start thinking of a guy who can keep the offense on shedule when other guys are not on.  Green is the only guy with young legs we have besides Rondo, but you never know when Rondo is gonna shoot or not...its almost like the only time he looks for his shot is if he has a good shootaround because you have games like the one against the spurs where he took every open shot and made most of them, and some games he refuses to take it....that cant happen...we need more consistent play and accountability from him...and yes I appreciate what he does and what he has done this posteason...just thinking ahead a little and playing devils advocate...I have always supported him, so I think its fair to ask....
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Wow you are finally coming around.....  the Rondo apologists, um, I mean supporters have always said that his strengths outweigh his weaknesses and the players can become good shooters and state that Cousy could not shoot and Kidd eventually became a good shooter -so 2 guys in 50 years..hmmmm.

    If Rondo lead the league with 30 assists per game and there were a bunch of guys averaging around 10... I could kind of get it.

    If Rondo lead the league with 12 steals per game there were a bunch of guys averaging around 2... I could kind of get it.

    Good point guards go to the line about 5 times per game and make 80% - 4 points per game.  Rondo goes twice and misses half - 1 point per game.

    He avoids shooting (because he can't) and is an automatic double team or sag in the paint.....

    So how exactly do his strengths outweigh his weaknesses?  He didn't even lead the league in assists but somehow he is considered elite.

    This team would be no worse off and in a lot of cases better with Rose, Westbrook, D Williams, M Williams, Teague, Holiday, Kidd, Nash, Conley (yeah I can see Rondo draining a 3 to force overtime - lmao), Wall, and a bunch of others.

    There has always been some sort of mindset that Rondo defers to his teammates and that if he wanted to he could average 30 ppg....

    I posted a while back with a school grade analogy:

    Math (assists) - Rondo gets an A, and a bunch of other guys get As and Bs

    Reading (steals) - Rondo gets an A, and a bunch of other guys get As and Bs

    Gym (shooting) - Rondo gets an F, and there are bunch of guys getting As and Bs

    Geography (free throws) - Rondo gets an F, and there are bunch of guys getting As and Bs

    History (3 point shooting) - Rondo gets an I (incomplete), there are a bunch of guys getting As and Bs

    Art (passing) - Rondo gets an A, a bunch of other guys get As and Bs....

    when you add it all up Rondo does several things very well and his peers are as good if not better in some of those categories and there are several categories where Rondo is an abysmal failure where his peers are very good at it but somehow........  he is perfect for this team....

    The team has a very hard time scoring against good defensive teams but I keep reading here that they don't need Rondo to score because there is plenty of scoring....lmao....

    Yes, the Cs would be better off with Tyreke Evans, Udrih, M Williams, D Williams, Wall, Rose, Westbrook, Nash, Kidd, and a whole bunch of others......  welcome to the reality club.
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    I think you can attribute most of that to his confidence or lack their of.  I think its a stretch to say he couldnt score 30...maybe not every night, but hey I dont think thats a pg's job.  Also, I would take some pg's over him ,but the westbrook argument...IDK...he averages more t/o's and has much less assists..so no I wouldnt want that jacker, but I mentioned the young guys like Holliday and Teague because in a short span of time, they have developed into pretty decents players, but I wouldnt expect this team to land a top tier guy like D.Will, or C.Paul.

    I still believe that you go over the top with your analysis of Rondo, but some points are valid, but with the team we had, he didnt really need to score 30.  Only reason I am posing the question now is because its obvious this current team cant go much longer than April due to extreme minutes to older guys, so now you can examine other possibilities as the team will be structured differently going forward....and maybe now you need a guy who is more offense orientated, but you argument for past years is pretty weak when the guy has been a part of a championship one year...2nd rd one year and game 7 finals another...so this is more of a future move I was talking about...
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    In Response to Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts:
    [QUOTE]I think you can attribute most of that to his confidence or lack their of.  I think its a stretch to say he couldnt score 30...maybe not every night, but hey I dont think thats a pg's job.  Also, I would take some pg's over him ,but the westbrook argument...IDK...he averages more t/o's and has much less assists..so no I wouldnt want that jacker, but I mentioned the young guys like Holliday and Teague because in a short span of time, they have developed into pretty decents players, but I wouldnt expect this team to land a top tier guy like D.Will, or C.Paul. I still believe that you go over the top with your analysis of Rondo, but some points are valid, but with the team we had, he didnt really need to score 30.  Only reason I am posing the question now is because its obvious this current team cant go much longer than April due to extreme minutes to older guys, so now you can examine other possibilities as the team will be structured differently going forward....and maybe now you need a guy who is more offense orientated, but you argument for past years is pretty weak when the guy has been a part of a championship one year...2nd rd one year and game 7 finals another...so this is more of a future move I was talking about...
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Westbrook - 3 years younger, bigger, stronger, faster, better shooter, better free throw shooter - fewer assists?  well maybe because he can shoot and does shoot, you don't get assists when you shoot.... like when you are an actual part of the offense....  Coach K did not seem to think it would be a bad thing to have Westbrook instead of Rondo to win a gold medal.

    I used to hear how Al Jefferson was going to be a perennial all-star - he just finished his 7th year in the league and not only has never been an all-star no team he has ever been on has ever made the playoffs.... close your eyes and imagine no big 3.... now open them and Rondo is Al Jefferson, never made the playoffs and never been an all-star.

    With this team they did not need Rondo to score 30?  Right, 20th in the league in scoring - have we heard things like "sometimes their offense really struggles to score", "they are playing 4 against 5", etc.  In the regular season their last 3 games against the Bulls / Heat they failed to score 80 and their offense has been stagnant throughout the players (accept for the two games after Billups and Amare went down).

    I don't say anything that the experts have not said any number of times.  I believe there have been several times just in the Heat series that they are playing off Rondo - daring him to shoot - sagging into the paint, etc.  but somehow people think I make these types of things up.

    The best point guards come into the league as the best point guards in the league or over a short period of time - there were 5 point guards in the all-star game, Rondo was the worst of the 5... why were people surprised that Rondo missed a layup the other day - he was the only one to miss an uncontested layup in the all-star game as well!  Yet somehow after 5 years it is ok to discuss Rondo as a work in process and that his best days are ahead and that the jumper and freebies are just part of the work in process - Chris Paul did not come into the league hoping some day he could make a jumper, ditto for Teague, Holiday, Williams... Rose in year 3 has become leaps and bounds better than Rondo in every facet of the game.  And to ignore Westbrook as one of the most dominant players in the league let alone one of the best point guards in the league is just silly.

    People love to dismiss Rondo's free throw shooting, shooting in general but here is what some experts think that his lack of those two fundamental aspects of his job actually place him.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    In Response to Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone want to try and guess what they are about.  We have seen many of them play out...and Pierce last time he was asked about it,. brushed it off and said, Oh, we always do that.  I wont sit here and tell you I know what it is, but Judging by the timing of it, I think Pierce is telling Rondo to shoot when he is open...something he does sometimes and other times he avoids shooting like the plague.  Now you guys know I have defended Rondo all throughout his slump, but I did say once the playoffs started, no excuses for anyone. The one thing that has always bothered me about his play is when he avoids taking those open shots, it messes up the flow of offense, cuz the ball stops, so if you not gonna shoot, atleast keep the ball moving, but he starts driblling and then kick it to someone not ready to shoot or in a bad position and this is what I think Pierce is telling him, but Rondo doesnt seem to ever have a positive reaction to those talks, so thats discouraging.  I refuse to make excuses for guys in the playoffs, and I love Rondo, but he said himself, not to make exucses for him, cuz they are a no excuse team...so with that being said...(gulp) Would this team be doing better with Jeff teague or Holliday at pg?  those are 2 young pg's that come to mind when I think of guys that atleast can shoot consistently and dont pass up shots... Teague may be just as fast, can finish and shoot and plays with energy every night,..Im just saying if we gonna have the same core players maybe we need to start thinking of a guy who can keep the offense on shedule when other guys are not on.  Green is the only guy with young legs we have besides Rondo, but you never know when Rondo is gonna shoot or not...its almost like the only time he looks for his shot is if he has a good shootaround because you have games like the one against the spurs where he took every open shot and made most of them, and some games he refuses to take it....that cant happen...we need more consistent play and accountability from him...and yes I appreciate what he does and what he has done this posteason...just thinking ahead a little and playing devils advocate...I have always supported him, so I think its fair to ask....
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

     Now are you going to apologize, to everyone who said the very same thing that you just said?
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    In Response to Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts:
    [QUOTE]Rondo's lack of shooting hurts the Celtics, it makes defenses clog up the paint. However, since Rondo was playing with Pierce, Ray, and KG he got away with it because the Big 3 can all shoot from the outside. Having said that, if KG and Ray are gone the Celts will need a PG that can shoot from the outside. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

     My man Fierce, is finally coming around to Kyceltic's way of thinking!!
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    In Response to Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts : Westbrook - 3 years younger, bigger, stronger, faster, better shooter, better free throw shooter - fewer assists?  well maybe because he can shoot and does shoot, you don't get assists when you shoot.... like when you are an actual part of the offense....  Coach K did not seem to think it would be a bad thing to have Westbrook instead of Rondo to win a gold medal. I used to hear how Al Jefferson was going to be a perennial all-star - he just finished his 7th year in the league and not only has never been an all-star no team he has ever been on has ever made the playoffs.... close your eyes and imagine no big 3.... now open them and Rondo is Al Jefferson, never made the playoffs and never been an all-star. With this team they did not need Rondo to score 30?  Right, 20th in the league in scoring - have we heard things like "sometimes their offense really struggles to score", "they are playing 4 against 5", etc.  In the regular season their last 3 games against the Bulls / Heat they failed to score 80 and their offense has been stagnant throughout the players (accept for the two games after Billups and Amare went down). I don't say anything that the experts have not said any number of times.  I believe there have been several times just in the Heat series that they are playing off Rondo - daring him to shoot - sagging into the paint, etc.  but somehow people think I make these types of things up. The best point guards come into the league as the best point guards in the league or over a short period of time - there were 5 point guards in the all-star game, Rondo was the worst of the 5... why were people surprised that Rondo missed a layup the other day - he was the only one to miss an uncontested layup in the all-star game as well!  Yet somehow after 5 years it is ok to discuss Rondo as a work in process and that his best days are ahead and that the jumper and freebies are just part of the work in process - Chris Paul did not come into the league hoping some day he could make a jumper, ditto for Teague, Holiday, Williams... Rose in year 3 has become leaps and bounds better than Rondo in every facet of the game.  And to ignore Westbrook as one of the most dominant players in the league let alone one of the best point guards in the league is just silly. People love to dismiss Rondo's free throw shooting, shooting in general but here is what some experts think that his lack of those two fundamental aspects of his job actually place him. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]


    Stupid post as usual. There is more than one phase of the game and Rondo is excellent in most. Aside from the being the toughest point guard in the league.

    Rondo has mostly played well in this series he just hasn't dominated it. But KG's 6 points the other night wern't exactly dominating either. Doesn't make KG suddenly a bad player. He may not be the best power forward in the game anymore but he is still a top five player. Similarly Rondo not draining threes doesn't make him a bad player. Dwayne Wade can't drain them either. 

    Dudder you just don't understand basketball. 
     
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    Re: Pierce and Rondo's in game discussions.. other thoughts

    Im done with you Dudder, you made your point.  Are you gonna sit here and try to ram Westbrook down my throat?!  Its an opinion.  YOu think Westbrook is better for this team, I dont.  YOu think pg's are supposed to be able to score 30 a night, I dont.

    Ideally, Paul Pierce would average between 22-27 ppg, and Ray Allen at 18-20 and K.G. at around 18 -20 while also getting 12 boards a game.  They dont anymore....and Rondo was rebounding until he was left with one arm...and you seemed to overlook his rebounding that wouldve helped last game.  Stop making everything about Rondo and maybe someone would take you seriously.  The whole team has weaknesses, but for some reason you thing the PG, the one here to get other people shots should average the most points!?!?  and you also slight Rondo by saying he doesnt lead the league in assists when he did all year and slipped to # 2 after the all-star break behind Nash who plays for a team that probably has 20 more fga's a game.

    As long as you only tell half the story and blame everything bad about a team on one player noone will take you seriously...hence im the only one talking to you..everyone else ignores you
     

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