Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    excerpt: "It was a lot of pressure because you're 19 and you want to win the championship and Pop wants you to be perfect," Parker said. "He wants you to score, he wants you to pass, he wants you to do everything perfect. And sometimes it was tough. It was growing pains. But at the end of the day it was worth it, because I would not be the player I am without Pop. Pop saw the talent in me and he tried to push me as hard as he can. You can ask anybody on the team -- I'm the one he pushed the most in the film room all the time to try to get me better, and that's why it was worth it for me to be coached like that. Because I never had time to relax. He was always trying to push me."


    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/11/28/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs/index.html#ixzz2VV0VfCnb   http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1426613-doc-rivers-defending-rajon-rondo-wont-help-star-pg-mature   ...and I like Rondo and believe he is a major asset.  But I don't see Doc in Pop's league as far as molding talent.



    This is not the baseball, and this in not the NCAA, where coaches are gods. You are talking about the NBA, a stars league, where stars determine success or failure, and a coaches success or failure. Doc and Pop understand this. Duncan follows Pop's lead, and KG follows Doc's lead.

    Pop has had healthier players overall. Doc has had health problems.

    Rondo, is not a leader, but a star. He is out for himself. He may change, but he is not Duncan or KG.

    If the Cs had been healthy,  things would likely be different. Give Doc a break.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to Jump-ball-overtime's comment:

     

    In response to breaktime's comment:

     

     

     

    excerpt: "It was a lot of pressure because you're 19 and you want to win the championship and Pop wants you to be perfect," Parker said. "He wants you to score, he wants you to pass, he wants you to do everything perfect. And sometimes it was tough. It was growing pains. But at the end of the day it was worth it, because I would not be the player I am without Pop. Pop saw the talent in me and he tried to push me as hard as he can. You can ask anybody on the team -- I'm the one he pushed the most in the film room all the time to try to get me better, and that's why it was worth it for me to be coached like that. Because I never had time to relax. He was always trying to push me."


    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/11/28/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs/index.html#ixzz2VV0VfCnb  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1426613-doc-rivers-defending-rajon-rondo-wont-help-star-pg-mature   ...and I like Rondo and believe he is a major asset.  But I don't see Doc in Pop's league as far as molding talent.

     

     



    This is not the baseball, and this in not the NCAA, where coaches are gods. You are talking about the NBA, a stars league, where stars determine success or failure, and a coaches success or failure. Doc and Pop understand this. Duncan follows Pop's lead, and KG follows Doc's lead.

     

     

    Pop has had healthier players overall. Doc has had health problems.

    Rondo, is not a leader, but a star. He is out for himself. He may change, but he is not Duncan or KG.

    If the Cs had been healthy,  things would likely be different. Give Doc a break.

     



    Doc has publicly stated Rondo is a leader.  Easy to find examples of that on the net.

     

    KG & Duncan have nothing to do with what I posted.  My posts concerned how complete Parker's game is thanks in no small part to Pops & how Rondo's game (while more than good, in fact dominating at times) has deficits which most fans can easily spot.

    As far as giving Doc a break, I have on several occasions.  But I do believe he is not that good at developing young players and missed the boat with Rondo. Whether Rondo's game continues to develop or stays mired in a regular season stats first mode is out of Doc's hands now.  Hope Rondo's inner voices are telling him he needs to improve and not that the players around him  need to get better.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    Hope Rondo's inner voices are telling him he needs to improve and not that the players around him  need to get better.


    DA was quoted fairly recently  as saying that his singular challenge is to put the right pieces around Rondo so that the team can contend.

    Its not just doc who has failed.

    Pud

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Hope Rondo's inner voices are telling him he needs to improve and not that the players around him  need to get better.

     


    DA was quoted fairly recently  as saying that his singular challenge is to put the right pieces around Rondo so that the team can contend.

     

    Its not just doc who has failed.

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, unless Rondo is traded, DA's referred to singular challenge is the right one for the C's moving forward.
    It's not DA's main priority to get into his players' heads.  That's more the realm of the coach, which I don't see happening at this point, hence the need for Rondo to make the right internal choices for next season.

    The best players make their team mates better 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    Great post breaktime! The second paragraph of the article was about Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hours to mastery theory, basically work and practice as the roots to improvement, and lots of it...10,000 hours. So when Parker was challenged to improve his shot, every Summer he had almost 1,000 hours to work on it (4 months at 8 hours a day) and during the season another 1,000 (4 hours per off day for extra practice). Did Ray Allen become the greatest shooter ever by birth or by practice? Larry and Magic are quoted saying each Summer they worked for hours on improving their games. Rondo is spending time pursuing his interest in fashion, even when he was healthy. the guy who is impressing me these days is LeBron, it is obvious he obsessed with improving his game, particularly adding good outside shooting. If he would stop flopping, I could truly respect hwhile sit still hating his team.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jump-ball-overtime. Show Jump-ball-overtime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    In response to Jump-ball-overtime's comment:

     

    In response to breaktime's comment:

     

     

     

    excerpt: "It was a lot of pressure because you're 19 and you want to win the championship and Pop wants you to be perfect," Parker said. "He wants you to score, he wants you to pass, he wants you to do everything perfect. And sometimes it was tough. It was growing pains. But at the end of the day it was worth it, because I would not be the player I am without Pop. Pop saw the talent in me and he tried to push me as hard as he can. You can ask anybody on the team -- I'm the one he pushed the most in the film room all the time to try to get me better, and that's why it was worth it for me to be coached like that. Because I never had time to relax. He was always trying to push me."


    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/11/28/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs/index.html#ixzz2VV0VfCnb  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1426613-doc-rivers-defending-rajon-rondo-wont-help-star-pg-mature   ...and I like Rondo and believe he is a major asset.  But I don't see Doc in Pop's league as far as molding talent.

     

     



    This is not the baseball, and this in not the NCAA, where coaches are gods. You are talking about the NBA, a stars league, where stars determine success or failure, and a coaches success or failure. Doc and Pop understand this. Duncan follows Pop's lead, and KG follows Doc's lead.

     

     

    Pop has had healthier players overall. Doc has had health problems.

    Rondo, is not a leader, but a star. He is out for himself. He may change, but he is not Duncan or KG.

    If the Cs had been healthy,  things would likely be different. Give Doc a break.

     



    Doc has publicly stated Rondo is a leader.  Easy to find examples of that on the net.

     

    KG & Duncan have nothing to do with what I posted.  My posts concerned how complete Parker's game is thanks in no small part to Pops & how Rondo's game (while more than good, in fact dominating at times) has deficits which most fans can easily spot.

    As far as giving Doc a break, I have on several occasions.  But I do believe he is not that good at developing young players and missed the boat with Rondo. Whether Rondo's game continues to develop or stays mired in a regular season stats first mode is out of Doc's hands now.  Hope Rondo's inner voices are telling him he needs to improve and not that the players around him  need to get better.



    I think that I have not been as clear as I should be.

    All stars are leaders to a point. The difference between Pop and Duncan, Doc and KG, and Doc and Rondo is that both Duncan and KG follow the coaches lead. The result is that everone else falls in line. Rondo on the other hand does what he wants, making it hard for Doc to coach in a star's league.

    Just before Rondo was injured, the Celtics were getting killed by Rondo's guard in the first half of the Houston game. Rondo refused to play defense, and insisted on free lance ball stealling and rebounding. At half time, an "unnamed player" was arguing with Doc when Pierce stepped in and told the unnamed player to listen to Doc, he is trying to coach. In the second half, Rondo played defense, and the Celtics came back to win. Terry then said that Pierce should get the game ball for stepping in at half time.

    All good coaches praise their stars in public, and keep the other stuff behind closed doors. Is there even a possibilty that the unnamed player was anyone else but Rondo?

    The reason why the Celtics had a losing record before Rondo went down was that Rondo insisted on getting his stats as the first priority, to the detriment of the team.

    The NBA is a stars league because the stars get paid more than coachs, they are harder to come by than coaches, and their are fewer players and star players that play. It is much easier to replace a coach than a star. Most other sports are not as affected by a single player.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to Jump-ball-overtime's comment:

     

    In response to breaktime's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Jump-ball-overtime's comment:

     

    In response to breaktime's comment:

     

     

     

    excerpt: "It was a lot of pressure because you're 19 and you want to win the championship and Pop wants you to be perfect," Parker said. "He wants you to score, he wants you to pass, he wants you to do everything perfect. And sometimes it was tough. It was growing pains. But at the end of the day it was worth it, because I would not be the player I am without Pop. Pop saw the talent in me and he tried to push me as hard as he can. You can ask anybody on the team -- I'm the one he pushed the most in the film room all the time to try to get me better, and that's why it was worth it for me to be coached like that. Because I never had time to relax. He was always trying to push me."


    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/11/28/tony-parker-san-antonio-spurs/index.html#ixzz2VV0VfCnb  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1426613-doc-rivers-defending-rajon-rondo-wont-help-star-pg-mature   ...and I like Rondo and believe he is a major asset.  But I don't see Doc in Pop's league as far as molding talent.

     

     



    This is not the baseball, and this in not the NCAA, where coaches are gods. You are talking about the NBA, a stars league, where stars determine success or failure, and a coaches success or failure. Doc and Pop understand this. Duncan follows Pop's lead, and KG follows Doc's lead.

     

     

    Pop has had healthier players overall. Doc has had health problems.

    Rondo, is not a leader, but a star. He is out for himself. He may change, but he is not Duncan or KG.

    If the Cs had been healthy,  things would likely be different. Give Doc a break.

     



    Doc has publicly stated Rondo is a leader.  Easy to find examples of that on the net.

     

    KG & Duncan have nothing to do with what I posted.  My posts concerned how complete Parker's game is thanks in no small part to Pops & how Rondo's game (while more than good, in fact dominating at times) has deficits which most fans can easily spot.

    As far as giving Doc a break, I have on several occasions.  But I do believe he is not that good at developing young players and missed the boat with Rondo. Whether Rondo's game continues to develop or stays mired in a regular season stats first mode is out of Doc's hands now.  Hope Rondo's inner voices are telling him he needs to improve and not that the players around him  need to get better.

     

     



    I think that I have not been as clear as I should be.

     

     

    All stars are leaders to a point. The difference between Pop and Duncan, Doc and KG, and Doc and Rondo is that both Duncan and KG follow the coaches lead. The result is that everone else falls in line. Rondo on the other hand does what he wants, making it hard for Doc to coach in a star's league.

    Just before Rondo was injured, the Celtics were getting killed by Rondo's guard in the first half of the Houston game. Rondo refused to play defense, and insisted on free lance ball stealling and rebounding. At half time, an "unnamed player" was arguing with Doc when Pierce stepped in and told the unnamed player to listen to Doc, he is trying to coach. In the second half, Rondo played defense, and the Celtics came back to win. Terry then said that Pierce should get the game ball for stepping in at half time.

    All good coaches praise their stars in public, and keep the other stuff behind closed doors. Is there even a possibilty that the unnamed player was anyone else but Rondo?

    The reason why the Celtics had a losing record before Rondo went down was that Rondo insisted on getting his stats as the first priority, to the detriment of the team.

    The NBA is a stars league because the stars get paid more than coachs, they are harder to come by than coaches, and their are fewer players and star players that play. It is much easier to replace a coach than a star. Most other sports are not as affected by a single player.

     




    Agree with what you're saying about Duncan and Pops, KG and Doc, JBO.  Think it applies to Parker and Pops too.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    Except for NFL quarterback and at times the NHL goalie. But your points are well taken and well thought out IHMO. It is interesting that Rondo sees the point guard position similar to that of the quarterback, tell that to LeBron or Larry, although Magic might agree. My fantasy trade is that they move Rondo for the ( possibly disaffected) Paul and keep the rest together. Still would need Gortat or a legate center in trade for pieces (Lee, etc)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    I'm not ruling out a Rondo trade.  Might be the best thing for him to find out  he's not  indispensable. Of course, it goes without saying a Rondo trade would be the best thing for Pud.

    I'd rather see Rondo stay here with a more team oriented approach to his game.


    If you die in an elevator, be sure to push the UP button

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    I'm not ruling out a Rondo trade.  Might be the best thing for him to find out  he's not  indispensable. Of course, it goes without saying a Rondo trade would be the best thing for Pud.

    I'd rather see Rondo stay here with a more team oriented approach to his game.


    If you die in an elevator, be sure to push the UP button

    To hell with Pud.

    I'm little more than an old fool.

    It's time this great franchise puts its house back in order for the next generation of Celtic followers.

    My time is over.

    Pud 


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Pop & Parker vs Doc & Rondo

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    I'm not ruling out a Rondo trade.  Might be the best thing for him to find out  he's not  indispensable. Of course, it goes without saying a Rondo trade would be the best thing for Pud.

    I'd rather see Rondo stay here with a more team oriented approach to his game.


    If you die in an elevator, be sure to push the UP button




    What would he post about?

     

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