Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw! : I'm sure you are correct.  I turned it on when it was about 6 mins old and Millsap and Jefferson were in the game, so I just assumed they started.  As a coach, though, I can tell you - if Rondo and KG and Ray are getting the ball stripped and MIA is running all over you up and down the court, that is NOT the time to put in rookies and blow their confidence.  Now, I don't know, but maybe if the game continued down 17-20, he would put them in.  We'll never know, because, darn it, we made a great comeback and exposed the Heat for the frauds they are.  No comeback, and I bet Moore and JJJ got in.  AB should not be playing, but they need to see what he can do, I guess!!  Tonight, I think, at least one of them will play.  If RA continues to play 40 mins, we are toast.  As I said, I like Dooling a little as a combo with Rondo, but I agree with you that we need to see what these kids can do sooner rather than later.
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm, sounds a little bit like your not relying upon Docs better judgment. Wont Doc play these kids at the exact, appropriate time?? Nobody knows more about them than Doc, right?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw! : Hmmm, sounds a little bit like your not relying upon Docs better judgment. Wont Doc play these kids at the exact, appropriate time?? Nobody knows more about them than Doc, right?
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]


    Still don't understand your problem, man.  Aren't we both Celtics fans?  I know I am.  But I guess I have the nerve to disagree with you.

    1.  Ray is averaging 39 mins per game
    2.  Right now, AB is his backup - with Dooling seeing a few mins.
    3.  Neither one of those can continue
    4.  Last night was NOT the night to put the rookies in
    5.  But I'm sure he will do it soon
    6.  Because he knows more about his players than we do.

    Hope that clears it up for you- I am not the one questioning Doc's rotation.  There are still 64 games left, and I'm SURE he will play them when the situation calls for it!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Red, I understand what you're saying.  If Doc doesn't think Moore or Johnson are ready, then I'd definitely "question" that assertion by virtue of Avery Bradley getting 13 minutes in two games.  That's 13 minutes too many for a guy who's obviously not ready as evidence by his play ON THE COURT!
     
    Although he is the coach, Doc doesn't know when they're ready!  Doc "thinks" he knows.  He is just tasked with making that decision and we've seen how reluctant he is to actually let rookies play.  Who's to say last night's game was not the perfect moment to throw them into the fire and see how they respond?

    This is the NBA and what determines "the right time"?  The bottom line is you don't know until you put them in.  Seems Spolestra chose right by playing Cole last night because of the result.  Had Cole gone 1-10 with 6 TO's you can bet he would not have been in the game in the 4th qtr.  I doubt very seriously that Spolestra thoroughly evaluated Cole in the few practices they had and, without a doubt, concluded this kid was ready.  Cole played 24 minutes on Christmas, scored 7 points and had 4 turnovers.  HE PLAYED!

    These guys are in the NBA.  They are ready to play basketball at this level or they would not be here.  And honestly, if Doc doesn't think they're ready, then he needs to put them on the court because they won't get ready with 1 practice per week or sitting on the bench.

    Regarding your 6th point, Doc knows more about the players but he doesn't know how these guys will respond on the court until they get on the court.  Doc "thinks" he knows but he doesn't.  Nobody knows until they get on the court.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kinggeorges. Show kinggeorges's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    PUT ALL THE YOUNG GUYS ON THE FLOOR AND MAYBE WE'LL GET A TEAM TOGETHER,THE WAY DOC RIVERS IS COACHING IS NO GOOD.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!


    Just as Doc didn't know how successful they'd be using the zone defense ... Had the asst coach not insisted then we would have been blown out last night. Doc needs to think outside of his own box ... that's obvious and maybe he learned two lessons last night ... Rookies & Zones.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!:
    [QUOTE]Red, I understand what you're saying.  If Doc doesn't think Moore or Johnson are ready, then I'd definitely "question" that assertion by virtue of Avery Bradley getting 13 minutes in two games.  That's 13 minutes too many for a guy who's obviously not ready as evidence by his play ON THE COURT!   Although he is the coach, Doc doesn't know when they're ready!  Doc "thinks" he knows.  He is just tasked with making that decision and we've seen how reluctant he is to actually let rookies play.  Who's to say last night's game was not the perfect moment to throw them into the fire and see how they respond? This is the NBA and what determines "the right time"?  The bottom line is you don't know until you put them in.  Seems Spolestra chose right by playing Cole last night because of the result.  Had Cole gone 1-10 with 6 TO's you can bet he would not have been in the game in the 4th qtr.  I doubt very seriously that Spolestra thoroughly evaluated Cole in the few practices they had and, without a doubt, concluded this kid was ready.  Cole played 24 minutes on Christmas, scored 7 points and had 4 turnovers.  HE PLAYED! These guys are in the NBA.  They are ready to play basketball at this level or they would not be here.  And honestly, if Doc doesn't think they're ready, then he needs to put them on the court because they won't get ready with 1 practice per week or sitting on the bench. Regarding your 6th point, Doc knows more about the players but he doesn't know how these guys will respond on the court until they get on the court.  Doc "thinks" he knows but he doesn't.  Nobody knows until they get on the court.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Petey - much respect!!  I HOPE you are right, I really do.  I actually can't stand watching Ray play that much....I love the guy, but defensively he's slipped....he'd be the perfect sixth man.
    I guess, as a coach, I don't like Monday mornings quarterbacks.  Parents always ask me, "if my kid played, could it have been any worse?"  My answer is, "Well......YES it could have been worse."  It just bothers me more than it should, I guess, that we second-guess Doc so much.  I trust Doc Rivers, like I trusted Tito, and like I trust Belichek.  No one is perfect, and I AGREE that he plays the starters too much.........it's just I trust that he thinks it's better (RIGHT NOW) than the alternative.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Thanks Red and much respect to you too.  I sure hope I'm right too.  And I hope so for your given reason/example.  Ray had a few turnovers but he played a spectacular overall game.  I wish he hadn't played 40 minutes though especially with a game tonight.

    Right now, it's too early to play our aging vets 40-plus minutes to chase one win.  Doc has to do more than "talk" about managing their minutes.  He has to follow it up with "actions" and actually manage their minutes by playing the rookies especially since Pierce and Pietrus are out.  Honestly, I doubt that the difference between us winning a game or losing a game this early will depend on Moore or Johnson playing in the game.  And IF we lose a game by playing Moore or Johnson, now is the time to do it so they can learn and develop so that it doesn't happen in April, May or June.

    I DON'T TRUST DOC!  It's easy to second-guess Doc when he says one thing every year but does something totally different which directly contributes to our downfall.  To continue, year after year, the regular season practice of grinding the aging vets into the ground to the point where they run out of gas in the playoffs is an example.  And we're seeing it already in two games.

    With Pierce and Pietrus out, one logical, expected response is to get the rookies some minutes.  It's not logical to run Ray 40 minutes a night this early.  For what, one win?  We can afford to go 4-6 in our first 10 games but I doubt we would anyway by playing the rookies.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Ummm... that would be great if there was an actual future. Fast track? Toward what? The future got mortgaged when the Celtics acquired KG and Allen. The only way to improve dramatically in the NBA is be bad and draft high and/or acquire superstar free agents. The situation with Garnett and Allen was unique because they were older guys who didn't care if Boston wasn't LA, Miami, or New York. One thing is for certain - the youngsters on this team will be bringing them nowhere now or in the future so don't worry about it. It's a shortened season, and true, they have virtually no shot, but the team is at least good enough to get into the playoffs. Ride Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Rondo as much as possible and give it a roll of the dice - maybe Rose or Wade will get hurt come playoff time. Playing the young guys on this team will do nothing but make this year more painful. Come next year you'll get lots of young players because we will be in full rebuilding mode. And young superstars aren't coming to Boston (notice how Paul and Howard had no desire to be here) either. It's hilarious that anyone believes we have to "find out" about Stietsma or JJ Johnson or Bradley. Minus Pierce, Petrius, and the existent holes at the 5 position the team is 2-4 players short right now. If any of the young guys could play they'd be playing serious minutes. The lack of respect for Rivers here is also a joke. This same kind of clamoring goes on year after year about players in the 11-15 spots on the roster as if any of them will help solve anything. Name one who has gone on to crack a rotation anywhere else. That's a drafting problem, not a Doc problem. Stietsma will be lucky to be in the league in a year or two. JJ Johnson has the body of a high school senior. Bradley is a young kid with a lot of physical tools who can probably guard people right now but looks lost out there and unsure of who he is as a player. One things for sure - he's no point guard. Moore is actually the most complete player of the bunch and even he can't get off the pine. Once again, they're not playing because they can't play. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from henryfinkel. Show henryfinkel's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    "They're not playing because they can't play" (bt33)  So, using that same "logic" you're saying that JO, Sasha & Avery are playing because they can play. Right?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Everyone gets their wish ... Everyone Plays Tonight!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    henryfinkel, your point makes alot of sense.  It's as simple as that-on the court.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Stiemsma is proving my point.  If you put these guys in the game, you might be surprised that they CAN PLAY and should play.  With more playing time and some direction from KG, this guy can make a significant contribution, especially on the defensive end.

    It's ridiculous to simply say "they aren't playing because they can't play" or "they aren't playing because they're not ready".

    Put them in the game and I'll bet they will show they're ready.  Stiemsma contributed 8 solid minutes with some active defense protecting the basket.  That's all you can ask for from him in his first half of NBA action.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw! : Last I checked, our opponent tonight is undefeated. We, if memory doesn't fail me, are still searching for our 1st victory. So who is poor? Pud 
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    How about it CaptChris.... Last time I checked, the Hornets are still undefeated and the Cs are still looking for their first victory.

    That's why you pull the starters (concede defeat)  in the 3rd quarter against the Heat and let the bench play.

    So you can save the starters for the next game, next night.

    Otherwise they may not show.

    UPDATE..... they didn't!

    Pud
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    We all know (or at least we all should) that Sasha and JO can't play at a high level either (Bradley I was including with the rest of the youngsters) so I never said that or implied it. But they have NBA experience and at least know the system. My main point, however, is that it doesn't really matter either way. Great, so the kids play at every opportunity. With JO in the middle it's certainly not going to get any worse starting Stiemsma. The guy has no offensive game whatsoever, but he will block shots and his legs are better than JO. Just get ready for him to be in foul trouble after the first quarter against any team over 500. Again, makes no difference. My only issue is with anyone who is crying about not playing these kids as if it means anything now or going forward. Stiemsma is an entirely different story because Oneal is a disaster, Wilcox is out, and there isn't a legit center on the roster. He needs to play. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    bt33, "playing these young guys" really DOES matter and that's my main point.  You say "it doesn't matter either way".  To that, respectfully, I say you are dead wrong.  In this compressed season with back-to-back-to-back games, it's matters more now than ever before.

    It does matter to play these young guys in this compressed schedule to enable the veteran players the opportunity to get the rest they need so as not to grind them into the ground.  That matters more than developing the rookies for the future.

    It does matter to play these young guys because they just might (just might) CONTRIBUTE something positive.  We saw that last night in Stiemsma's first action.  And you are right that he might commit 4 fouls vs an elite team.  But then again bt33, he MIGHT NOT!

    And playing the young guys to set ourselves up going forward (for the future), that matters too.  The Celtics will need bench players and if these guys can develop into solid, capable bench players (or even one starter), then it matters to get them the playing time to see that and develop that.

    It's kind of obvious that the Celtics aren't getting much from the "NBA experience" of JO, Sasha or Bradley so why should they continue to play the bulk of the minutes (JO and Sasha).  Wilcox probably would not have given us the activity and energy that Stiemsma gave last night.

    As unstable as our play is starting out, it makes all the sense in the world to get these guys on the court to see if they can crack the rotation.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    I thought Moore looked a little lost last night while in the game, on both ends!!
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ednr. Show ednr's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    Stiemsma's a keeper! Noticed he was open all alone under the basket on several occasions, but Rondo wouldn't make the pass.

    Forget JO at center. Get Gasol or play Steimsma. At least Stiemsma plays w/energy. Doc has to rethink his approach. Yes its been w/out Pierce, but he's not going to get 20 rebounds a night!
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!

    In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Put the young guys on the fast track Doc! Win, Lose or Draw! : Totally agree ............. All the basketball pundits have two unanimous theories about the NBA esp early on in this abreviated game filled season and that is 1) the beginning of the season is going to be ugly basketball because of no practice time and a 2 week trade/free agent period where no one is going to be used to playing with anyone in any sort of team concept.  and 2) this season you are going to have to play 8-10 deep to get thru the grind.  So the question is why not give everyone a fair shot at minutes........nobody is asking for them to play 20 minutes but get them in the game and see what they do in real time.........it will pay dividends both from a players confidence (I belong) it will make them feel more like part of the team (rather than just a body at practice) and who knows maybe you learn something about real time game experience from them.........wow he can really play.......... all we are asking is for Doc to give them some minutes.........if they deserve more so be it......if not at least you tried........
    Posted by damfuno[/QUOTE]


    WE can ask all we want, doesn't mean it's going to happen!
     

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