Quit whining!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Quit whining!

    Only one team can win the championship each year. It's preposterous to expect Ainge to be able to build a championship contender every season. I trust that he surveyed the trade landscape and decided that he couldn't get enough for Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo to merit moving them at this time. That doesn't mean he won't revisit trading them in the off-season. I'm confident he'll always do his best to improve the team. As fans, we need to be more patient, more realistic, and more understanding of the realities of managing a team.

    We're not the other GMs on the phone with Ainge. We don't know whether Jordan and Bledsoe for Garnett was a real possibility, whether Garnett vetoed the move, or whether the Clippers insisted on some other inclusion. Often times it's the trades we don't initially hear about that actually come the closest to happening (think Ray Allen and the Grizzlies last year, or recent revelations about Kobe Bryant almost being dealt to the Pistons back in 2007). Most rumors are just idle speculations on the part of reporters looking for something to write about in their articles and discuss on their radio shows.

    The Celtics have been one of the better teams under Ainge's tenure: a championship, two trips to the NBA Finals, and an Eastern Conference Finals appearance. If not for inopportune injuries to Kevin Garnett in 2009, Kendrick Perkins in 2010, and Jeff Green and Avery Bradley in 2012, the Celtics would be looking at three NBA championships in the last 5 years instead of just one. Bad luck, not inept management, held back this group. We should be more appreciative for what Ainge has done, especially after all those miserable post-Bird years.

    As bleak as it may look right now for the Celtics' title chances this year, I still hold out a modicum of hope. I think there's a very slight chance they could pull off some upsets. Jeff Green is developing into a legitimate star. Garnett and Pierce both turn their games up a couple notches in the playoffs. Jason Terry is battle-tested. Avery Bradley looks healthy and remains every bit the defensive pest pre-injury. Jordan Crawford might be the scorer off the bench this team sorely needed. Within the next couple weeks we might see a few decent centers bought out of their contracts (Chris Kaman? Jermaine O'Neal? Reggie Evans?)

    Let's just root for our team and enjoy the ride instead of complaining like entitled Yankees aficionados. Celtics and Lakers fans deserve to complain the least. It could be much worse.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from vertmont. Show vertmont's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to davidap's comment:

    Only one team can win the championship each year. It's preposterous to expect Ainge to be able to build a championship contender every season. I trust that he surveyed the trade landscape and decided that he couldn't get enough for Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo to merit moving them at this time. That doesn't mean he won't revisit trading them in the off-season. I'm confident he'll always do his best to improve the team. As fans, we need to be more patient, more realistic, and more understanding of the realities of managing a team.

    We're not the other GMs on the phone with Ainge. We don't know whether Jordan and Bledsoe for Garnett was a real possibility, whether Garnett vetoed the move, or whether the Clippers insisted on some other inclusion. Often times it's the trades we don't initially hear about that actually come the closest to happening (think Ray Allen and the Grizzlies last year, or recent revelations about Kobe Bryant almost being dealt to the Pistons back in 2007). Most rumors are just idle speculations on the part of reporters looking for something to write about in their articles and discuss on their radio shows.

    The Celtics have been one of the better teams under Ainge's tenure: a championship, two trips to the NBA Finals, and an Eastern Conference Finals appearance. If not for inopportune injuries to Kevin Garnett in 2009, Kendrick Perkins in 2010, and Jeff Green and Avery Bradley in 2012, the Celtics would be looking at three NBA championships in the last 5 years instead of just one. Bad luck, not inept management, held back this group. We should be more appreciative for what Ainge has done, especially after all those miserable post-Bird years.

    As bleak as it may look right now for the Celtics' title chances this year, I still hold out a modicum of hope. I think there's a very slight chance they could pull off some upsets. Jeff Green is developing into a legitimate star. Garnett and Pierce both turn their games up a couple notches in the playoffs. Jason Terry is battle-tested. Avery Bradley looks healthy and remains every bit the defensive pest pre-injury. Jordan Crawford might be the scorer off the bench this team sorely needed. Within the next couple weeks we might see a few decent centers bought out of their contracts (Chris Kaman? Jermaine O'Neal? Reggie Evans?)

    Let's just root for our team and enjoy the ride instead of complaining like entitled Yankees aficionados. Celtics and Lakers fans deserve to complain the least. It could be much worse.




    Could not agree more. Nice post. POSITIVE.
    Go Green and Celtic Pride.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    If teams didn't want what the Celts have to offer yesterday, what will make teams want what the Celts have in the summer?


    There will be a new context and set of circumstances. Rondo will be able to prove his health in training camp. Other players will demand trades or leave via free agency, making certain Celtic players more attractive as replacements. Certain players targeted by some teams might end up on other teams, increasing the likelihood of a trade as the primary solution for filling the vacancies. The draft will be over and teams will have a better understanding of their cap situations and positional needs. Players on other teams will get hurt. Others will retire or move onto other leagues. Garnett and Pierce will have another few months (and whatever they experience for better or for worse the rest of this season) to revisit their desire to remain Celtics. The Kings' situation will be resolved (staying in Sacramento under a new ownership or moving to Seattle) and that could have a ripple effect on the rest of the league with respect to potential trades. Expectations for various teams will change; some will want to go all-in to win, others will be trading off their assets.

    There are a lot of variables that will change between now and training camp. That's always true. That's why player movement is much higher during the off-season.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from heirplain. Show heirplain's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    If teams didn't want what the Celts have to offer yesterday, what will make teams want what the Celts have in the summer?




    They weren't offering KG PP or RR  Think about it!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    Only one team can win the championship each year. It's preposterous to expect Ainge to be able to build a championship contender every season. I trust that he surveyed the trade landscape and decided that he couldn't get enough for Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo to merit moving them at this time. That doesn't mean he won't revisit trading them in the off-season. I'm confident he'll always do his best to improve the team. As fans, we need to be more patient, more realistic, and more understanding of the realities of managing a team.

    We're not the other GMs on the phone with Ainge. We don't know whether Jordan and Bledsoe for Garnett was a real possibility, whether Garnett vetoed the move, or whether the Clippers insisted on some other inclusion. Often times it's the trades we don't initially hear about that actually come the closest to happening (think Ray Allen and the Grizzlies last year, or recent revelations about Kobe Bryant almost being dealt to the Pistons back in 2007). Most rumors are just idle speculations on the part of reporters looking for something to write about in their articles and discuss on their radio shows.

    The Celtics have been one of the better teams under Ainge's tenure: a championship, two trips to the NBA Finals, and an Eastern Conference Finals appearance. If not for inopportune injuries to Kevin Garnett in 2009, Kendrick Perkins in 2010, and Jeff Green and Avery Bradley in 2012, the Celtics would be looking at three NBA championships in the last 5 years instead of just one. Bad luck, not inept management, held back this group. We should be more appreciative for what Ainge has done, especially after all those miserable post-Bird years.

    As bleak as it may look right now for the Celtics' title chances this year, I still hold out a modicum of hope. I think there's a very slight chance they could pull off some upsets. Jeff Green is developing into a legitimate star. Garnett and Pierce both turn their games up a couple notches in the playoffs. Jason Terry is battle-tested. Avery Bradley looks healthy and remains every bit the defensive pest pre-injury. Jordan Crawford might be the scorer off the bench this team sorely needed. Within the next couple weeks we might see a few decent centers bought out of their contracts (Chris Kaman? Jermaine O'Neal? Reggie Evans?)

    Let's just root for our team and enjoy the ride instead of complaining like entitled Yankees aficionados. Celtics and Lakers fans deserve to complain the least. It could be much worse.

     




    ========================================

     


    Fantastic post !!!  You must be a Dale Carnegie disciple. I don't know the origin of the saying" It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game". Well that was probably said by someone who lost. On the other hand, I remember Vince Lombardi's saying that "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".


    Now, for the players winning and losing is much more important to determine their income and longevity in their employment. But putting things in perspective, we are only fans. Yup, I know we buy tickets but are we only entertained if our team wins or, even losing, it played well and did its best. When the Celtics got on their winning streak they played small ball, hustled, did good defense & caused turnovers. It was kind of exciting because most of the time we lost the rebound battle. I think we are a bit of an underdog not having a legitimate Center, KG is a great PF but not a banger in the post and Melo is raw !!! Remember fellow fans it's only a game( I reiterate more important for the players & managers) but for us it's a spectator game, not LIFE and DEATH !!! Serious things in life are job, health and educational issues for ourselves, children & grandchildren and good family relationships, and our team winning or losing has no affect on these important things.

    OK, I'm off my soap box...enjoy the game and enjoy the entertainment and skill of the players.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to davidap's comment:

    If teams didn't want what the Celts have to offer yesterday, what will make teams want what the Celts have in the summer?


    There will be a new context and set of circumstances. Rondo will be able to prove his health in training camp. Other players will demand trades or leave via free agency, making certain Celtic players more attractive as replacements. Certain players targeted by some teams might end up on other teams, increasing the likelihood of a trade as the primary solution for filling the vacancies. The draft will be over and teams will have a better understanding of their cap situations and positional needs. Players on other teams will get hurt. Others will retire or move onto other leagues. Garnett and Pierce will have another few months (and whatever they experience for better or for worse the rest of this season) to revisit their desire to remain Celtics. The Kings' situation will be resolved (staying in Sacramento under a new ownership or moving to Seattle) and that could have a ripple effect on the rest of the league with respect to potential trades. Expectations for various teams will change; some will want to go all-in to win, others will be trading off their assets.

    There are a lot of variables that will change between now and training camp. That's always true. That's why player movement is much higher during the off-season.



    Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The fact is though the Celtics had this problem last year and going into this year, getting a good big man to play with KG and give him some rest was the #1 priority.  Nothing was more important.  If you appreciate what KG and Paul bring you have all this time to explore and then do nothing was a great disservice to this team.  This team played hard after the loss of Rondo and Sullinger and they needed help in the frontcourt. Ainge needed to bring someone in and now we are going to play mix and match with all the castoffs in the NBA and D-leagues. The Celtics deserve better and your patience while appreciated by Ainge and management is not deserved.  Fab Melo was even a ridiculous pick considering the urgency this team's needs were for a big man. If KG goes down, he can't even play tonight due to fatigue, you should not be so forgiving to Danny or management who ignored the team's needs since Feb of 2011 and finally saw the window shut at three yesterday.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    Read my post again, I said summer, not training camp.


    Aside from the Rondo point, my reply to your post still stands. A lot of things change over the course of the summer that dramatically shape a team's direction, and by extension, trade possibilities.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to davidap's comment:

    Read my post again, I said summer, not training camp.


    Aside from the Rondo point, my reply to your post still stands. A lot of things change over the course of the summer that dramatically shape a team's direction, and by extension, trade possibilities.



    I see your point but just don't agree.  I think they needed to make a trade and get it down. We would have had to give up somebody to get what we wanted.  Signing BAss looks insane now, how did he answer the need for a big man. He was good last year but not that good. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    Here's a small example of what I mean about how circumstances can change between the trade deadline and the off-season. Let's look at Josh Smith. There were probably 4-5 teams in talks with the Atlanta Hawks about obtaining him. In all likelihood, all of those teams probably told Danny Ferry, "Why should we give you X, Y, and Z, when if we just wait a few more months, we can sign Smith outright and not have to send you anything?" Ferry probably replied, "Well, my team is doing pretty well right now, if you're not going to give up quality, I'm not going to submarine my team's chances for the rest of this year, plus destroy my cap situation. I guess we just don't match up."

    Now there's only one Josh Smith. Therefore only one of those five teams will actually be able to sign him in the off-season. That means the four teams that lose out on Smith will have to move onto Plan B, Plan C, maybe Plan D. Those Plans B through D might include Paul Pierce and because it's the off-season where both the Celtics and whoever wants Pierce have a chance to draft, sign, and obtain other people without the pressures or inconveniences of current in-season records to complicate matters, it'll be more feasible to work something out.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    I think they needed to make a trade and get it down.


    A lot of teams could have used help by making a trade. Few teams did anything of consequence. The biggest name to get moved was a mere role player, J.J Redick.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CelticFanLA. Show CelticFanLA's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Celtic fans love to whine.

     

     



    Especially you, right?

     

    Come on, Kirk, tell us how Terry socks.



    +1

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    Most on this forum want their cake and want to eat it too. They don't want Ainge to trade KG or PP, but they want him to add another all-star to the roster. How? You trade bass and terry for Dwight Howard, of course. So simple, right? Why wouldn't Ainge make such an obvious move? LOL A lot of guys who think they are NBA GMs. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    And the Bucks only had to give up Tobias Harris, Beno Udrih, and Doron Lamb.


    And the Celtics only had to give up a backup guard with a season-ending injury and a third-string center for a 24 yearold averaging only a basket less per game than Redick.

    Context matters. Leaguewide, nothing really happened. Of the few deals that were actually made, the Celtics made one of the better ones, if not the best.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from heirplain. Show heirplain's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to heirplain's comment:

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    If teams didn't want what the Celts have to offer yesterday, what will make teams want what the Celts have in the summer?

     




    They weren't offering KG PP or RR  Think about it!

     

     



     

    Report: Celtics offered Pierce to Nets at deadline in exchange for 3 players & 2 Picks - Nets declined

    http://www.celticslife.com/2013/02/report-celtics-offered-pierce-to-nets.html

    "The deal the Celtics were very interested in was with the Clippers," he told Gary Tanguay and Donnie Marshall on Comcast SportsNet's Trade Deadline Special Thursday night. "If they could have gotten Eric Bledsoe and DeAndre Jordan -- [a] 22-year-old point guard, a 23-year-old center -- . . . I do believe the Celtics would have gone to Kevin Garnett and asked him if he was willing to waive his no-trade clause.

    http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/wojnarowski-clippers-management-said-no-kg-deal




    These were not serious deals bottom line the Celtics offered the two top players but not in a realistic deal. No way would the C's given them away. We will see in the summer. Good chance we will see them back next year! We hope in one capacity or another.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOISE. Show NOISE's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    In response to vertmont's comment:

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    Only one team can win the championship each year. It's preposterous to expect Ainge to be able to build a championship contender every season. I trust that he surveyed the trade landscape and decided that he couldn't get enough for Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo to merit moving them at this time. That doesn't mean he won't revisit trading them in the off-season. I'm confident he'll always do his best to improve the team. As fans, we need to be more patient, more realistic, and more understanding of the realities of managing a team.

    We're not the other GMs on the phone with Ainge. We don't know whether Jordan and Bledsoe for Garnett was a real possibility, whether Garnett vetoed the move, or whether the Clippers insisted on some other inclusion. Often times it's the trades we don't initially hear about that actually come the closest to happening (think Ray Allen and the Grizzlies last year, or recent revelations about Kobe Bryant almost being dealt to the Pistons back in 2007). Most rumors are just idle speculations on the part of reporters looking for something to write about in their articles and discuss on their radio shows.

    The Celtics have been one of the better teams under Ainge's tenure: a championship, two trips to the NBA Finals, and an Eastern Conference Finals appearance. If not for inopportune injuries to Kevin Garnett in 2009, Kendrick Perkins in 2010, and Jeff Green and Avery Bradley in 2012, the Celtics would be looking at three NBA championships in the last 5 years instead of just one. Bad luck, not inept management, held back this group. We should be more appreciative for what Ainge has done, especially after all those miserable post-Bird years.

    As bleak as it may look right now for the Celtics' title chances this year, I still hold out a modicum of hope. I think there's a very slight chance they could pull off some upsets. Jeff Green is developing into a legitimate star. Garnett and Pierce both turn their games up a couple notches in the playoffs. Jason Terry is battle-tested. Avery Bradley looks healthy and remains every bit the defensive pest pre-injury. Jordan Crawford might be the scorer off the bench this team sorely needed. Within the next couple weeks we might see a few decent centers bought out of their contracts (Chris Kaman? Jermaine O'Neal? Reggie Evans?)

    Let's just root for our team and enjoy the ride instead of complaining like entitled Yankees aficionados. Celtics and Lakers fans deserve to complain the least. It could be much worse.

     




     

    Could not agree more. Nice post. POSITIVE.
    Go Green and Celtic Pride.



    Yesah!  Celtic pride!   Go C's!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: Quit whining!

    Very true. While I generally like Ainge, I find some of his moves or lack thereof strange. His Perkins trade made sense in theory but not in the context of where the team was at the time and how urgent the need was to go after each and every possible championship. You can't mortgage the future and then try to backtrack as it plays out. Also don't understand his insistence in refusing to bring in an actual back-up pg for Rondo. Haven't had a legit back-up in here in for a long time...

    The point about not getting a quality big man in here is well taken. Yes, we know Ainge was jammed up with the cap, and yes the Darko experiement didn't work, and Wilcox has been very inconsistent, and yes, losing Stimesma was perhaps out of their control, but Danny gets paid to make the right moves and this team got stuck with a skinny, aging vet at center; an over the hill veteran with no shotblocking skills/offense whatsoever in Collins; a 6 "8" power forward who can't rebound the position and can't jump except when he stops and goes up with two legs in Bass; and a power forward coming off an injury, trying to fill minutes at the 5 in Wilcox. And finally, an undersiized rookie who's a great rebounder but can't block shots or score in the post due to inexperience and a lack of hops. There was never even a question Melo was going to help at all once you saw him in camp so that was out. We all know bigs do not grow on trees and you can't just manufacture one with no money to spend, but ultimately the team was left with serious gaps in the front court and yu have to look at the GM. Just was never enough. And they've gotten killed down low without shot blockers and rebounders.

    This was never going to be a serious championship contender, but this could have been a conference finalist. Perhaps it doesn't matter, and again, you can't blame danny or doc for injuries to three key contributors, but it's likely not going to get a lot better. 

    In terms of the trades - unless you can't get significantly better there is no sense in trading away garnett (assuming he'd go along) or pierce. What fans on this forum don't seem to understand is that the est of the league knows how old these guys are and values them accordingly. Yes, they can still play and a contedner might reach to get that missing piece, but their reach will always be just close enought to be temping without allowing you to say, we have to make this move. Now, say you could get chandler parsons and asik for garnett - you'd proabbly have to go for it; or even bledsoe and jordan if that was ever on the table - you'd almost have to seriously consider it. just don't know how anyone on here can know what or wasn't actually available instead of being rumored. makes no sense to simply give away the heart fo the team. 

    in terms of the future - this team can win 50-plus games next year and perhaps a round or two in the playoffs if healthy and if they address their frontcourt issues. garnett; sully; pierce; bradley; rondo; lee; green; wilcox; bass; crawford; and terry will likely not all be on the roster next year. They'll have to find a way to make a move or two to add two legit bigs. we'll see. they certainly didn't get that accomplished this year. 

    doc also has some thinking to do in relation to rondo and his team's style of play. this team was built to run, share the basketball, and play scrappy d and that didn't happen for much of the year. some of that falls on rondo's shoulders, some on the new guys failure to adjust to the system, some on the failings of the personnel in regards to not enough size; and the largest portion on doc for not forcing his team to play the way they should have night in and night out. hopefully some reassessment will take place over the off season and a few changes will be made to improve the team. for better or worse though this is likely where we are for the next few years. not bad enough to get good and not good enough to truly compete. and for the people dreaming about big name free agents in their prime, once again - THEY WON'T COME HERE. 

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to davidap's comment:

     

    If teams didn't want what the Celts have to offer yesterday, what will make teams want what the Celts have in the summer?


    There will be a new context and set of circumstances. Rondo will be able to prove his health in training camp. Other players will demand trades or leave via free agency, making certain Celtic players more attractive as replacements. Certain players targeted by some teams might end up on other teams, increasing the likelihood of a trade as the primary solution for filling the vacancies. The draft will be over and teams will have a better understanding of their cap situations and positional needs. Players on other teams will get hurt. Others will retire or move onto other leagues. Garnett and Pierce will have another few months (and whatever they experience for better or for worse the rest of this season) to revisit their desire to remain Celtics. The Kings' situation will be resolved (staying in Sacramento under a new ownership or moving to Seattle) and that could have a ripple effect on the rest of the league with respect to potential trades. Expectations for various teams will change; some will want to go all-in to win, others will be trading off their assets.

    There are a lot of variables that will change between now and training camp. That's always true. That's why player movement is much higher during the off-season.

     



    Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The fact is though the Celtics had this problem last year and going into this year, getting a good big man to play with KG and give him some rest was the #1 priority.  Nothing was more important.  If you appreciate what KG and Paul bring you have all this time to explore and then do nothing was a great disservice to this team.  This team played hard after the loss of Rondo and Sullinger and they needed help in the frontcourt. Ainge needed to bring someone in and now we are going to play mix and match with all the castoffs in the NBA and D-leagues. The Celtics deserve better and your patience while appreciated by Ainge and management is not deserved.  Fab Melo was even a ridiculous pick considering the urgency this team's needs were for a big man. If KG goes down, he can't even play tonight due to fatigue, you should not be so forgiving to Danny or management who ignored the team's needs since Feb of 2011 and finally saw the window shut at three yesterday.

     




     
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