Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]Aw, shucks, guys.  You're gettin' me all embarrassed. By the way, I'm nominating the Dud's post for this year's "most unintentionally funny" award. Gee, where are Pud and Acie?  Wanna bet on whether they are poring over stats, trying to find some evidence that supports their unreasoning hatred of Rondo? My definition of a "sports hater" is someone who automatically, and without fail, assumes the worst possible motive for the player who is the object of their negativity.  "He's lazy."  "He thinks he is so good that he doesn't need to practice his shooting."  "He is only interested in his stats."  "He is afraid to drive to the basket because he doesn't want to take a chance of having to go to the line for FTs."  Etc., etc.  As if they were sports psycholigists or mind-readers. With the quantum jump that DRose has taken this year, and DWilliams recent difficulties, the three top PGs in the league are CPaul, DRose and Rondo.  People could argue forever about what order they should be ranked, but it's safe to say that there is a drop off to the next set of PGs.  In my opinion.
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE
    Your recognition of the sports hater phenomenon is right on. A certain segment of Yankee fans actually used to complain that Robinson Cano smiled too much. He was lazy and didn`t focus. Disregarding that he spent the offseason playing baseball on chopped up fields in the DR. These Rondo haters are out of the same mold.If he misses free throws, its because he doesn`t practice enough. If he passes to open teammates he`s padding his assist stats. He doesn`t drive because he`s afraid of being fouled and missing the free throws. Never mind that he throws his 170 lb. body around with reckless abandon and Doc says he`s right up there w/ KG for competetive ferocity. There`s a certain personality type that prefers to think the worst of others.Often they weren`t give enough attention as children
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken : If I'm not mistaken, JKidd beat us with a clutch shot last time we played. At least he takes the shots. Indeed! Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]
    anecdotal evidence is crap If i`m not mistaken, Rondo`s  won games for us by scoring on  a lob at the rim and assisting on numerous game-deciding shots. You  seem  to  think jump-shooting is all that  matters. Guess you never saw Bob Cousy play.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken : All I know is that when things were tough against the Heat and da troof was obviously not feeling well Rondo stepped up and had an almost Rose like game - didn't he drop 30 against the Heat? Most of the posters are absolutely - Rondo cannot be guarded but that is where they end the sentence.... they leave out the following Rondo cannot be guarded when nobody intends to guard him.... they are the 20th scoring offense in the league and only against Dallas and the Lakers recently have they scored over 100 - in their most recent losses Rose, Kidd, Wall, Brooks, etc. have outplayed Rondo and he has shown especially recently that he is, has been, and will be the worst shooter in the league. What is really funny to me is that Doc has told Rondo that he needs to be more aggressive shooting and getting to the rim - um Doc he missed just about every shot that was not within 2 feet of the hoop and missed all but one of his freebies......  every pass by Rondo is a good pass..... All of that said, the Cs are, when healthy, obviously the best team in the league.  It had to be demoralizing for the Heat to know that the Cs were missing their starting center, Pierce sick, and all the other injuries that they were not able to beat the Cs. There are 3 teams built for the playoffs / finals.... the Cs, the Lakers, and the Mavs.... I will be stunned if one of them is not the champ.  The dark horse is da Buhz....  they have the MVP, they went the first 20 games or so without their 2nd best player and have gone the last 30 or so without their best defender and are still within striking distance. The Heat, Magic, and Hawks are pretenders but will win lots of games during the regular season. There are those intelligent people that realize, like last year in the finals, like last year in the US team, Rondo's inability to shoot does not result in some sort of "nobody can guard Rondo"..."Rondo is unstoppable"..."Rondo runs the team" concept.... the smart people realize that as we have all seen when people are not playing well or out injured Rondo does not get his assists and obtw he is ignored and continues to be the worst shooter in the league. I keep reading how Rondo is the best point guard in the league but I also keep seeing that nobody has anywhere near the talent surrounding them but any number of other point guards putting as good if not better numbers. Try to keep in mind that when Stockton put up back to back seasons of over 14 assists (which Rondo will not do) he also averaged 17 ppg, shot over 50% (not Rondo's fabricated - lay up only 50%), over 40% from 3 and over 80% from the line. As I have said any number of times any shot not taken by Rondo is a good shot.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    I can see you love to put up stats like it actually means anything.  Tiny Archibald led the league in scoring and assists in the same year, was amazing for years leading the league in scoring or assists and all that. Years later after playing a few years with the Celts, winning at least one title, averaging about 15 points and 8 assists a game, said that when he played those stat starving years with the Celts, he was a far better point guard than any of his great stat years.

    As the late great Redhead said along w/ BB and most other great coaches would say:

    Stats are of losers!!!

     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken : Rondo may eventually become an actual 50% shooter as opposed to all the point guards that around 50% now and their shots actually include finishing, 3 point shots and contested jump shots.  Let's face it nobody guards Rondo and he still barely catches iron most of the time and once in a great while he will hit a 3 when the shot clock is winding down and somehow that is supposed to be the greatest shot in the history of the league. When Rondo becomes a good shooter it will be when there are no more hall of famers on the roster. They are in the bottom third of the league in points scored and most bloggers ignore it because their defense wins games but then when they face a good defensive team and lose it is somehow the refs, or paul or kg or injuries, etc.  Somehow it is never the fact the worst shooter in the league is the starting point guard who cannot be on the floor in the later stages of the game, cannot be a recipient in a last second shot (as a matter of fact is charged with passing the ball in - how ridiculous is that? - the smallest guy on the floor is responsible for getting the ball in when he should be one of the options on the floor to attempt the last shot). As I have said any number of times and as has been said on WEEI by Jackie Mac most of Rondo's assists come from whom he plays with.  Coach K and Doc both said Rondo's inability to shoot hurts the team.  I contend that the whole "length" discussion is a joke and that Rondo's inability to make routine jumpers and not even requiring anyone to guard him cost the Cs number 18 and has cost them any number of games this year. I keep hearing about how Rondo is a pass first point guard and that his scoring is irrelevant as long as he helps his teammates score.  They are 20th in the league in scoring and there are at least a half dozen games recently where they did not score 90 points and were beaten. When I think of great point guards I tend to think of someone being able to take over a game and "will" a team to win.  But what I see is a team losing close games when the other team has tough matchups for #5, #34, AND #20.  When the other team has good matchups against the bulls, they win, when the other team has tough match ups against the Spurs, Parker helps them win, etc. Rondo cannot take over games, cannot win games, cannot make free throws, cannot make routine jumpers, cannot make dagger 3s, cannot win without 3 hall of fame players. Therefore and as I have said any number of times, give me the 3 hall of famers and any number of other point guards in the league and the Cs are no worse off and in many cases better. Go RR....   keep shooting.... it helps KG, Perk, and you yourself to prop up your own rebound stats......... going into the huddle KG says "hey Doc, I need 2 rebounds for a trip doub let's run plays for RR jumpers"......... Give me Ray Felton and the Cs are no worse off and PP says hey Doc how come I didn't get double teamed tonight?    Um... Felton can shoot.  "Hey Doc how come we keep scoring 106 instead of 99?"  Well Paul that is because we now only have one stiff in the starting 5 instead of 2.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    You are right, he is not a food shooter, but he is a great scorer, and you can't take that away from him.  He can take a game over in many situations, and though he isn't a jump shooter, he is still a threat at any time.  You really need to learn more about the game.  It isn't all about stats as you seem to think.  Great Ds will rarely score a lot of points because they cause the other team to use up much of the clock.  The stat you are looking for is point differential, how many points did you average more or less than the other teams.  Teams that score 110 points will give up 105 or so.  It doesn't mean they have a great offense or a great defense.
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken : Yeah the shot will come.....  he is 25 less than a year younger than Paul and Williams.... the following point guards are better shooters........ EVERY SINGLE ONE...... in year 5 if you have not figured it out, you will not.  Don't hold up Kidd as the example.  People love to use an exception to the rule and apply it their example as if it is a given. In other words, there is one example in history so it automatically applies to Rondo because it is some sort given. Kidd has become a decent (life time 35% 3 point shooter) shooter, not a great one because nobody has guarded him for 15 years.  Rondo is 5 years into that 15 years and is simply the worst shooter in the league and there is not even any close. Go through the league team by team and try to find the point guard that avoids shooting of any kind, avoid shooting 3s, avoiding getting to the line, etc. The average, just average point guard, realize that shooting of any type is part of their job description. Only in Boston are we supposed to believe that shooting is not part of the job description of a point guard and that Rondo is somehow subjugating his game to make sure that his 4 hall of fame starters get their shots.  The ultimate joke. When we see passes into the stands, 3 second violations, 24 second violations, etc. nobody wants to accept that Rondo is causing it but then when he makes an alley oop pass we are all supposed to bust a nut and think that he invented it. As I have said before, the degree to which he can be overrated could not even fill the Grand Canyon.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    Dude you really need to learn about the game.  No a point guard does not have to be a shooter to win, and scoring does not a great point guard make.

    Realize if KG wasn't hurt the past 2 years the Celts would have 3 straight titles easily.  Rondo has shown to one of the great playoff players playing today in all of basketball.  His his game rises huge.  He spreads the ball around, avgs around a triple double meaning he is doing EVERYTHING!

    Get a life and enjoy his play.  Scoring can be a point guards weakness if he shoots as much as many of the so called great ones do.  Scoring is not even close to most important part of a point guards play in less he wants to be an all star, but the champs always have steady points who score when needed and find all kinds of ways to get the job done, one of them being scoring.  The kid can really score, and he just isn't a great shooter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    Quasi, actually,while Rondo isn't a GREAT jump shooter, he is now a pretty good one.  He hits his jump shots at the same percentage that Derrick Rose does, way better than Westbrook does, and only a few percentage points behind CPaul and DWilliams.

    No need any longer to apologize for Rondo's jump shooting.  While everyone was arguing about whether his poor jump shooting disqaulified his from elite status, Rondo significantly improved his J, to the point that it can no longer be called a weakness.

    Now, the only thing the haters can criticize him for is his poor FT shooting.  And as I have posted previously, Rondo's poor FT shooting amounts to a difference of a half a point per game.   Not a big deal in comparison the areas in which he excels.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from quasi1981. Show quasi1981's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]Quasi, actually,while Rondo isn't a GREAT jump shooter, he is now a pretty good one.  He hits his jump shots at the same percentage that Derrick Rose does, way better than Westbrook does, and only a few percentage points behind CPaul and DWilliams. No need any longer to apologize for Rondo's jump shooting.  While everyone was arguing about whether his poor jump shooting disqaulified his from elite status, Rondo significantly improved his J, to the point that it can no longer be called a weakness. Now, the only thing the haters can criticize him for is his poor FT shooting.  And as I have posted previously, Rondo's poor FT shooting amounts to a difference of a half a point per game.   Not a big deal in comparison the areas in which he excels.
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    Jerry Cole, it isn't so much whether he can shoot, it is that these fans think if he doesn't shoot like the others, he is not a great Point.  Plus he can 'score' at will in games when needed.  He drives well either side, and one day if the ever decides to lay in his left side layup with his left hand?  Just another dimension.  I get sick of so many think its all about the stats, when the point is all about making everyone around you better, getting them all involved, and guide the ball into the right place to get the best shots possible at the most important moment in that one play, a quarter, half, or the ball game.  His shots will come.
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    Q, I'm with you regarding Rondo.  My point was that it is no longer accurate to speak of Rondo as poor jump shooter.  Without a lot of people noticing, he has become a very good jump shooter this season.  (So much for the haters' view that Rondo was too conceited to practice his J.)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]JKIdd is 3rd among the all time NBA 3 point leaders. An 80% FT shooter. 15+ years averaging 14 PPG, 7 RPG and 10 APG. Future HOFer. Not afraid to shoot. Not afraid of the big moment. Clutch  performer. Plenty of heart. His recent buzzer beater trey against the C's was hardly a fluke. He has broken many hearts over the years. Young Rondo  could do far far worse than to try to emulate JKidd's shooting prowess and all around game. But realistically,  the chances???? Smart money says no. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]
    What is your point? Do you want to trade Rondo for Kidd? If its just a matter of bashing Rondo, when is enough going to be enough for you ? Even the old tart in the limerick eventually became satiated. Enough she cried, I`m satisfied!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    This season:

    Jump shots:  Kidd - 42.3%.............Rondo - 45.3%

    All shots in
    Crunch time: Kidd - 44%................Rondo - 50%

    Points
    per game      Kidd - 7.8..................Rondo - 10.8   


    Maybe Kidd should emulate Rondo.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenkillme. Show greenkillme's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    Once again we have a thread about Rondo's scoring when we should just appreciate that we have such an outstanding athlete and winning point guard. And once again Duddud and puddinhead jump into the fray and get totally crushed.

    Next question...why has Duddud given up on hacking at Perkins....hey duddud...doesn't Perk need some of your inspiration too?
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    I keep waiting for J/C to produce a statistical analysis to prove with absolute certitude that TEAM USA won the FIBA title... thanks to Rondo!!!

    Keep crunching the numbers....JerryC.  If anyone can, you can.

    Pud
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    My concerns with Rondo isn't his jump shot or taking the open shot or his D for that matter. I'm concerned (As I was Last year) with the minutes he plays everynight.  Which falls in the hands of Danny Ainge because he signed Nate when he should of been looking for someone who could play the point. I know we had some bad luck with West injuries, but he should of learned from his mistakes from the previous year and signed someone who is a little more versatile. Hopefully West will help in the second half to give Rondo some needed rest, because if he isn't running the Celtics aren't winning!

     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]Q, I'm with you regarding Rondo.  My point was that it is no longer accurate to speak of Rondo as poor jump shooter.  Without a lot of people noticing, he has become a very good jump shooter this season.  (So much for the haters' view that Rondo was too conceited to practice his J.)
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

     You've never watched a game, have you?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    i wouldnt say hes become a VERY good shooter..but his elbow jumper is far from terrible..wen he isnt rushed into taking it, i expect him to make it.
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    While we are at it, why don't we compare Rondo's whole game. You know: Rebounding, passing and assists, steals, defense, making his team better shooters and annoying and harrasing the other team's shooters, etc, etc and his smarts. So tell me what other guard does all of that??

    HELLO IN THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]I keep waiting for J/C to produce a statistical analysis to prove with absolute certitude that TEAM USA won the FIBA title... thanks to Rondo!!! Keep crunching the numbers....JerryC.  If anyone can, you can. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    rondo withdrew from the team because he and rose hate each other's guts. I have no issue with him not playing with that team as he appears to have spent the extra time in the offseason working on his jumper.

    anyway, the way durant was playing, it wouldn't have mattered who else was on the roster
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    Great comeback, Pud!  Must have taken a lot of research and analysis to come up with that one.

    I demolished your major criticism of Rondo, and that's all you've got?  Lame.

     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken :  You've never watched a game, have you?
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    ky, I would bet that I've watched at least twice as many NBA games as you have, having been a rabid Celtics fan for over 50 years.  Not sure what that proves, either way.

    What I am sure of is that what one "sees" while watching a game is distorted by emotions, bias, and expectations.  As proof of that, I need only point to the Rondo haters who still insist on variations of "he's the worst shooter in the league", despite definitive evidence that he matches up well in that regard with the best PGs in the league, and that his shooting performance improves in crunch time.

    I know it's hard to give up one's pet theories, but when confronted with proof that they are not valid, it's sort of immature of someone to insist that his biased impressions are more valid than what actual data demonstrates. 
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken : What is your point? Do you want to trade Rondo for Kidd? If its just a matter of bashing Rondo, when is enough going to be enough for you ? Even the old tart in the limerick eventually became satiated. Enough she cried, I`m satisfied!
    Posted by jrleftfoot[/QUOTE]

    Let's see - nobody guards him and his percentage has improved after 5 years in the league.... wow......  now let's see if he continues to pass up routine layups and kicks the ball out to players that are 20 feet farther away and hopes 2 things - (1)  the guy that is 20 feet away makes a jumper (and oh by the way he has 3 of the greatest jump shooters of his generation) and (2) he never has to go to the line.........

    There are at least a handful of point guards (3 of which are playing for the west tonight) that are better point guards, don't have 4 hall of famers to pass the ball to, and don't shy away from getting to the line, take jumpers, and actually make jumpers as part of the team offense - not just as a last second thing or and adjunct to the offense.

    Rondo creates 3 second violations, creates 24 second violations, runs and hides in the corner of the court after passing the ball (only after thinking that he has a guaranteed assist).

    In the western conference Rondo is not even the 6th best point guard but for some reason there are retarded people think that Rondo is the best point guard in the league.

    Give Westbrook, Williams, Paul, Curry, Davis, and a whole bunch of others and Rondo never ever ever gets a sniff at an all-star game.   Once Wall gets his game under his belt perhaps over the next couple of years Rondo will never get a sniff given that Rose is already a lot better.  Nelson and Harris are only one all-star game behind Rondo and none of those guys play with 4 hall of hamers.  Give Harris and or Nelson 4 hall of famers and they have 13 assists but they also shoot 47% from the field, 40% from 3, and 80% from the line....... 

    Some would love to suggest that Rondo is somehow subjugating his game to take care of his teammates and that they are somehow limiting his game...... I have to go change my depends because there is not even remote possibility that Rondo would start shooting some of these percentages as a result of not having his teammates to pass the ball to.

    Gee whiz guys, I would am giving up all of my stats to make sure that you guys keep getting your stats so I am going to continue to be the worst shooter in the league from everywhere on the floor so that you can pad your stats and we can contend......

    Oh wait..... we have the 20th scoring team in the league.... there have been all sorts of discussions about how I don't need to score and we continue to score about 98 ppg.... oh wait is that 20th and do we continue to lose games where we don't score 90 or more points and I continue to not move the meter while losign those games?  The other night I stepped up and scored 42.... oh nope that was Rose..... and they won and oh they were missing one of their best players..... well when KG was missing games.....ummmmmmm we lost and I ummmm didn't step up... my scoring average went down as did my assist average......... those damn stats and facts really suck considering I am an all-star......
     
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    Re: Rajon Rondo and the Shots Not Taken

    you are right Dudder. Rondo is HORRIBLE, he really doesnt even belong in the NBA. its so messed up that every NBA coach voted for him to b in the all star game..makes no sense! its so messed up that everyone on the Celtics team says rondo is the engine, rondo is the general, rondo makes everything run smoothly. LIARS! its such a shame that come playoff time, every analyst in america refers to Rondo as the best player on the court for some reason..are they alllll blind!!! jeez, alllllllllll those people are wrong. and your right. im glad at least YOU know that hes terrible..man, give me carlos arroyo any day. im sure KG would agree.
     

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