Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    i'm having a hard time understanding why you're digging up a year-old post.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    For one thing, let's clear this up right away. The  Celtics cannot go out and use the $6M that we were offering Ray and offer it to another team's free agent. We only had that ability because Ray was our own free agent and we had his Bird rights. Also, in order to give Jason Terry  the full mid level, we'll have to spend up to the salary cap with our own free agents. That's good news for  Greg StiemsmaMickael Pietrus and perhaps even Chris Wilcox.

     

    http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/7/7/3142920/what-now-moving-after-ray-allen#storyjump  I'm having a hard time understanding why some here think we have extra money under the cap after Ray left.   What's worse is there's a poster here who claims ESPN's Chris Forsberg is not a credible source. Ugh!

     



    What are you talking this so random. This proves my point you didn't know what a sign and trade was. The Terry deal took for every to complete because they tried to work a S&T to avoid the MLE rules. Thank you for proving my point

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/14/celtics-jason-terry-courtney-lee-sign-free-agent-trade-mavericks/

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    For one thing, let's clear this up right away. The  Celtics cannot go out and use the $6M that we were offering Ray and offer it to another team's free agent. We only had that ability because Ray was our own free agent and we had his Bird rights. Also, in order to give Jason Terry  the full mid level, we'll have to spend up to the salary cap with our own free agents. That's good news for  Greg StiemsmaMickael Pietrus and perhaps even Chris Wilcox.

     

    http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/7/7/3142920/what-now-moving-after-ray-allen#storyjump  I'm having a hard time understanding why some here think we have extra money under the cap after Ray left.   What's worse is there's a poster here who claims ESPN's Chris Forsberg is not a credible source. Ugh!

     



    What are you talking this so random. This proves my point you didn't know what a sign and trade was. The Terry deal took for every to complete because they tried to work a S&T to avoid the MLE rules. Thank you for proving my point

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/14/celtics-jason-terry-courtney-lee-sign-free-agent-trade-mavericks/




    Exactly! If the C's had been able to sign Terry with the S&T they didn't have to use the MLE and would have avoided having to sign their own free agents first as required once the MLE was comitted to.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    For one thing, let's clear this up right away. The  Celtics cannot go out and use the $6M that we were offering Ray and offer it to another team's free agent. We only had that ability because Ray was our own free agent and we had his Bird rights. Also, in order to give Jason Terry  the full mid level, we'll have to spend up to the salary cap with our own free agents. That's good news for  Greg StiemsmaMickael Pietrus and perhaps even Chris Wilcox.

     

    http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/7/7/3142920/what-now-moving-after-ray-allen#storyjump  I'm having a hard time understanding why some here think we have extra money under the cap after Ray left.   What's worse is there's a poster here who claims ESPN's Chris Forsberg is not a credible source. Ugh!

     



    What are you talking this so random. This proves my point you didn't know what a sign and trade was. The Terry deal took for every to complete because they tried to work a S&T to avoid the MLE rules. Thank you for proving my point

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/14/celtics-jason-terry-courtney-lee-sign-free-agent-trade-mavericks/

     



    I didn't know what a sign and trade was?

     

    In the first place, why would the Celts do a S&T with the Mavs when Terry was an unrestricted FA?

    The Celts had the MLE to offer and Terry accepted.

    But what you said was the Celts had money to sign an UFA. You and Mployee8 agreed on that issue. Now you're going to pretend that never happened?




    You still don't know what a S&T is? Come on this is comical. Did you read the article I posted? You do a S&T with the team that has the Bird Rights of a player to avoid salary cap issues. The reason you would S&T Terry is so you still have the MLE, and give JET the 5 mill he want. You are clueless.  Come on bro. I never tough they had cap size and you know that.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    For one thing, let's clear this up right away. The  Celtics cannot go out and use the $6M that we were offering Ray and offer it to another team's free agent. We only had that ability because Ray was our own free agent and we had his Bird rights. Also, in order to give Jason Terry  the full mid level, we'll have to spend up to the salary cap with our own free agents. That's good news for  Greg StiemsmaMickael Pietrus and perhaps even Chris Wilcox.

     

    http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/7/7/3142920/what-now-moving-after-ray-allen#storyjump  I'm having a hard time understanding why some here think we have extra money under the cap after Ray left.   What's worse is there's a poster here who claims ESPN's Chris Forsberg is not a credible source. Ugh!

     



    What are you talking this so random. This proves my point you didn't know what a sign and trade was. The Terry deal took for every to complete because they tried to work a S&T to avoid the MLE rules. Thank you for proving my point

    http://tracking.si.com/2012/07/14/celtics-jason-terry-courtney-lee-sign-free-agent-trade-mavericks/

     



    I didn't know what a sign and trade was?

     

    In the first place, why would the Celts do a S&T with the Mavs when Terry was an unrestricted FA?

    The Celts had the MLE to offer and Terry accepted.

    But what you said was the Celts had money to sign an UFA. You and Mployee8 agreed on that issue. Now you're going to pretend that never happened?

     




    You still don't know what a S&T is? Come on this is comical. Did you read the article I posted? You do a S&T with the team that has the Bird Rights of a player to avoid salary cap issues. The reason you would S&T Terry is so you still have the MLE, and give JET the 5 mill he want. You are clueless.  Come on bro. I never tough they had cap size and you know that.

     

     



    HAHAHAHAHAHA

     

    You're lucky when BDC shifted to the new format your posts on this thread was deleted.

    Jason Terry was an unrestricted FA. Why would Boston do a S&T when they could sign him outright?

    Didn't the Celts sign Terry for the MLE then did a S&T with Houston for C. Lee?

    And you're trying to change the subject. You agree with Mployee that the Celts had money to sign an UFA.




    My post have never been deleted, everything is here. Okay you clearly don't understand what is a S&T.  Why don't you describe what you think it is and I will fill you in? Wouldn't it be a better value to S&T JET and have the MLE left for another player like a center. Read that article. I am not changing the subject, this all started because I said you didn't know what a sign and trade was. You clearly don't still. I never said they have cap space. The fact you can't find it exposed you. You have been embarassed. Don't make up stuff now. You have a tendency to act like a ten year when you are wrong.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

     

    My post have never been deleted, everything is here. Okay you clearly don't understand what is a S&T.  Why don't you describe what you think it is and I will fill you in? Wouldn't it be a better value to S&T JET and have the MLE left for another player like a center. Read that article. I am not changing the subject, this all started because I said you didn't know what a sign and trade was. You clearly don't still. I never said they have cap space. The fact you can't find it exposed you. You have been embarassed. Don't make up stuff now. You have a tendency to act like a ten year when you are wrong.

     

     



    You never said they have cap space?

     

    I have been embarrassed?

    Where were you when I called you out just before the season started?

     

    What part was I wrong?

    Did the Celts do a S&T for Terry?

    The Celts couldn't sign a big man for the MLE because no big man was available for the MLE.

    Kris Humphries got 12m per year.

    Ilyasova got 8m per year.

    So how could the Celts sign a big man for the MLE when no quality big man would accept the MLE?

    Your ignorance is showing.




    You never called me out. You have invented this because I mention you didn't know what is a sign and trade was. You have yet to show you know what it is. If you can't see the value off having both Terry and the MLE instead of just Terry you are lost. It doesn't matter if they got a center or pg or sg or a forword, they could have just had another body. I would have gone after Marreese Speights personally. If you read the article I posted from SI. You would have seen why wanted to S&T for Terry. I have other things to do then argue with a child, you lost here you should move on.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

     


    You never called me out. You have invented this because I mention you didn't know what is a sign and trade was. You have yet to show you know what it is. If you can't see the value off having both Terry and the MLE instead of just Terry you are lost. It doesn't matter if they got a center or pg or sg or a forword, they could have just had another body. I would have gone after Marreese Speights personally. If you read the article I posted from SI. You would have seen why wanted to S&T for Terry. I have other things to do then argue with a child, you lost here you should move on.

     

     



    I never called you out?

     

    HAHAHA

    You're such a liar.

    First you said the Celts could have used that MLE for a big man. When I proved you wrong by informing you no big man was available for the MLE, the Celts could just have had another body?

     

    Marreese Speights?

    How could the Celts go after Speights when he was a restricted FA?

    He was not an UFA, stupid!

     

    Once again you're showing your ignorance. The Celts used the MLE for Terry and did a S&T with Houston for C. Lee.

    If the Celts did a S&T for Terry then gave the MLE to Lee then the Celts would still have gotten Lee and Terry, right?

    The more you post the more ridiculous you become. That's why you ran away and hid when I called you out at the start of the season. 

     



    You never called me out. How dare you call me a liar. You have been so exposed. Everyone on this  board has seen what you are. It is funny you still don't know what a S&T is. The worst part is that you are in the right.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

     

    My post have never been deleted, everything is here. Okay you clearly don't understand what is a S&T.  Why don't you describe what you think it is and I will fill you in? Wouldn't it be a better value to S&T JET and have the MLE left for another player like a center. Read that article. I am not changing the subject, this all started because I said you didn't know what a sign and trade was. You clearly don't still. I never said they have cap space. The fact you can't find it exposed you. You have been embarassed. Don't make up stuff now. You have a tendency to act like a ten year when you are wrong.

     

     



    You never said they have cap space?

     

    I have been embarrassed?

    Where were you when I called you out just before the season started?

     

    What part was I wrong?

    Did the Celts do a S&T for Terry?

    The Celts couldn't sign a big man for the MLE because no big man was available for the MLE.

    Kris Humphries got 12m per year.

    Ilyasova got 8m per year.

    So how could the Celts sign a big man for the MLE when no quality big man would accept the MLE?

    Your ignorance is showing.

     


    The Celtics would have had more money to sign another big man if KG had agreed to resign for much lower money.  As I stated many times if he really wanted to return and have a chance of winning a championship he would have signed for $2 or $3 million instead of what he is being paid.  This would have given the Celtics a considerable amount of cap space to sign another big man.  Imagine how different the season might have been if we had KG playing his limited minutes and a quality big man as his backup.  Someone who could eventually replace KG when he retires. 

     

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    Fungus is an idiot because he can't see why the C's delayed all their own FA signings as well as Terry for so long. Indeed, Danny was trying to find a way to work a S&T for Terry and if that had happened he probably would have tried to shave a few more $ off our own players new contracts to be able to land someone like Lee at $3-5M. Once done he could have gone over the cap signing our own Bird-Rts FA's w/o using the MLE.

    Danny agreed to give Terry MLE $ but he never comitted the MLE for Terry until the very end when he couldn't work a S&T. It's obvious to those with a capacity to connect the dots save for those that have blinders on and can't think outside of the box ... You know who you are!

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    Like I said then ... the C's could have signed their own FA's last and gone over the cap doing so. By clearing or renouncing all the old bodies and deadwood on their cap holds they could have created space to sign Lee w/o using the MLE had they gotten Terry in a S&T.

     

    I believe the entire hold up in signing contracts last year was a result of Danny and his team realizing that if they could work a S&T for Terry then they could cut that deadwood, negotiate their own players new contracts down some and create that space. But the whole thing hinged on Terry since they had promised him $5M or so. When they couldn't work a S&T then they had to commit to the MLE for him and that sealed the teams fate.

     

    Just because 2005 was the last time it was done doesn't mean it was undoable again. The right situation has to arise and for the C's it did with KG, Green & Bass being up for new contracts and a bunch of expiring one year deals that could be let go in favor of an upgrade.

     

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

     

    Like I said then ... the C's could have signed their own FA's last and gone over the cap doing so. By clearing or renouncing all the old bodies and deadwood on their cap holds they could have created space to sign Lee w/o using the MLE had they gotten Terry in a S&T.

    > I said renouncing the deadwood and old players still on their cap hold not their own FA's they intended to resign.

     

    I believe the entire hold up in signing contracts last year was a result of Danny and his team realizing that if they could work a S&T for Terry then they could cut that deadwood, negotiate their own players new contracts down some and create that space. But the whole thing hinged on Terry since they had promised him $5M or so. When they couldn't work a S&T then they had to commit to the MLE for him and that sealed the teams fate.

     

    Just because 2005 was the last time it was done doesn't mean it was undoable again. The right situation has to arise and for the C's it did with KG, Green & Bass being up for new contracts and a bunch of expiring one year deals that could be let go in favor of an upgrade.

     -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     



    Like I said, the Celtics didn't exploit that loophole last summer. No other team has exploited that loophole since 2005. And that loophole was permanently closed once the new set of cap rules was implemented after the lockout of 2012. 

     

    > The Lockout was in 2011 and the loophole was not closed by new cap rules if a team is able to reduce or eliminate the cap hold.

     

    Sure the Celts could have opted not to use the MLE and became a team below the salary cap. But that mean no Jeff Green, no Bass, and no Lee.

     

    > They didn't have to become a team under the salary cap. They just needed to eliminate enough cap holds to free up room. Green & Bass both had Bird Rts so there is no circumstance where the C's couldn't resign them unless they didn't want them.

     

    Remember, the salary cap was around 58m last season.

    Rondo - 11m

    Pierce - 16.79m

    Total - 27.79m

    Add KG's new deal of 11.57m and that total goes up to 39.36m.

    Doing a S&T for Terry would add another 5m. So that's 39.36 + 5 = 44.36m

    Now, AB, Sully, and Melo will total 4.15m.

    44.36 + 4.15 = 48.51m

    Rondo, Pierce, KG, Terry, AB, Sully, and Melo will total 48.51m. That's 7 players already and you still need 6 more players to reach the minimum of 13 players.

    Like I said, it's either the Celts go over the cap or go under. And the first step to becoming a team under the cap is by renouncing all your free-agents.

    So how can you sign your own free-agents to go over the cap when you already renounced them?




    You seem to think a team has to declare their intent to be under or over the cap with their final team salary and that's not the case when it comes to being able to sign a free agent. A team only needs to be under the Cap Hold to sign free agents. They must resign any other player without Bird Rts as well before going over the cap. Once they've reached the cap limit they can then resign their own FA's holding Bird Rts and go over the cap.

    So if the C's had renounced the deadwood that's been on the cap hold for ten years or more and  waived the players they didn't intend to resign or use in S&T's, then they could have created enough cap space for Lee with Ray and his cap hold gone after renouncement. Then if they had been able to get Terry via S&T they could have preserved the MLE for another player once they signed their own FA's with Bird Rts (Bass, Green & KG all had Bird Rts) going over the cap as well as VM contracts as needed to fill the roster if needed.

    There's no ruling in the new CBA to prevent that again other than the Commissioner now having broad authority to negate a deal if he feels it's outside the intent of the new CBA.

     
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    Re: Ray's 6m Can't be Used to Sign an UFA

    Its a shame fierce cant seem to get his stories straight. For being the most frequent poster here by a landslide, youd think hed at least know what he was talking about.

    Im also tired of his pretend "HAHAHAHAHAHA" after most posts... his way of over compensating for the factual humiliation he absorbs by more informed posters

     

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