Rondo nick names

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    You can always depend on Pud for maturity, tightly-reasoned argument, and fact-filled content.    His erudite writing, subtle humor, and command of language make it a pleasure to debate him. 


    [He who firsts resorts to name-calling does so because he has lost the argument.]
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]You can always depend on Pud for maturity, tightly-reasoned argument, and fact-filled content.    His erudite writing, subtle humor, and command of language make it a pleasure to debate him.  [He who firsts resorts to name-calling does so because he has lost the argument.]
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    I concede this debate to you, Jerry/Clown. I am defeated.

    Your higher order statistical treatise on young Rondo is far superior to anything my lying eyes can ever be trusted to discern.

    You, sir, with your desktop calculator ablase have divined that which all one day will surely agree is..... absolute metaphysical TRUTH...
     
    Leaving me shamelessly exposed as a FRAUD, resorting to little more than bitter name calling.

    No mas, J/Clown. No mas! Cry

    Pud
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

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    Pud's almost like being sworn in: "the truth, half the truth, and nothing but half the truth"


    Brick is what we could have called Bryant in game 7. Kinda goes together Brick Bryant.

     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]Pud's almost like being sworn in: "the truth, half the truth, and nothing but half the truth" Brick is what we could have called Bryant in game 7. Kinda goes together Brick Bryant.
    Posted by croc[/QUOTE]

    Sir: I plead the 5th.

    Pud
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]Acie challenged me to talk myself "out of the 26% FTs"
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    hay, jerry, do a re-read- you didn't talk yourself out of anything.

    let's just get down to brass tacks.  tell me how many other starting (let alone that you perceive rondo to be 'great' despite the gaping holes in his game) point guards in league history have farted out a finals series of 26% free throw shooting?  mm hmmm.  you can cite none.  there are none.

    the bottom line is that we have a unique chunk of fool's gold on our roster.  i am no one sided blind spot guy- when rondo is on, he is a delight to watch.  but there has never been another 'great' PG in the game who was whisked through 4 years in the league w/o improving the FT's and basic shot, while getting a contract extension, all the minutes he can take, and so much hype.

    rondo's statistical trajectory is that of slick watts.  look him up.  another 60% FT bricker from the late 70's who was quick as lightning, had good steal numbers and rebounded the ball well for a man his size.  injuries hampered slick and also the league got tired of his rim breaking ways after about 5 years and nobody really wanted him so much.  these days are different. 

    people really get excited about some flash, a shiny object so to speak.  so much so that they hardly even consider the down side of not being fundamentally sound.  you should try it jerry.  think fundamentals.  and you will see that everything rondo has been interested in doing, he has done with a fine level of skill. 

    and the things that he really feels he doesn't need- like the jumper and the freebie, have taken a back burner status.  it's just the truth.  when gandered through that lense (i know fundamentals are so 1980s), rondo is not such a great teammate. 

    he and the celts (also culpable) have marched out the sad / charity story that rondo is just "sacrificing for the team" in not shooting the jumper or "scoring" as they put it- yet when it comes time when he has to hit it for the betterment preservation of the team game, rondo has given so much of his poor little self (LOL) that he can't hit the J anyway, and never could.  excuses, excuses.
     
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    the thin green line
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    acie, everytime you write about Rondo, you are guilty of making statements that are provably false.

    Here are some facts for you.

    In the last five minutes of close games (neither team ahead by more than five points), Rondo shoots jumpers at a higher rate than his average.  He also MAKES a higher percentage than his average.

    He was not "shut down" or even slowed down in the LA series.  The mix of his production shifted but still added up to the same production as his regular season average - despite his being guarded by an All-Defensive player.

    His free throw woes in the LA series amounted to an average of one point per game worse than that of an average FT shooter.  None of the games in the series were decided by such a small margin. 

    In the seventh game of the series, the ultimate time for clutch play, Rondo came within 2 rebounds of a TRIPLE-DOUBLE and missed only one FT.

    I'm not impressed by flash.  I'm impressed by facts.  And the full facts point to Rondo's being the second best PG in the league, behind only Chris Paul.  So far, you have not produced a single FACT that disproves that conclusion.  Instead, you've cherry picked two of about ten aspects of PG play, and presented them as if they were the only part of basketball that mattered.

    Everyone has has ever played has had a bad series in some aspect of their play.  That proves NOTHING.  Ray Allen, for instance, had a TERRIBLE series against LA, missing an inordinate number of open shots.   He went almost two entire games without making a single FG.  Rondo's FT shooting was nowhere near that level of futility, nor did it have any impact on a single game - unlike Ray's shooting woes.  According to your logic, we should have substituted Nate for Ray for most of the series.

    As for your theory that Rondo "doesn't care" about his outside shooting, the FACTS are that until late last year (after KG went down) Doc didn't want Rondo to be thinking about shooting.  It was impressed on him that his job was to set up the Big Three, get them good shots - which he did very well.  After Doc ordered him to start shooting more, Rondo hired Mark to improve his FG and FT shooting.  Price greatly changed Rondo's mechanics, which even you would have to admit takes time to get used to, if you've been shooting the same way since childhood.

    And finally, a point that isn't a fact, but is a reasonable conclusion: Rondo's decline in FT shooting during the playoffs may very well have been a result of his tiring.  He played more minutes than any other Celtic, took on much more coach-ordered responsibility, and dealt with the difficulty of changing his shot "on the fly", so to speak.

    The one thing we can be sure of is that Rondo's FT woes were not a reaction to pressure.  His playoff performances last year and this year prove beyond a doubt that playoff pressure only IMPROVES his performance.  And THAT is an aspect of playing ball that is FAR more important than FT shooting!
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]acie, everytime you write about Rondo, you are guilty of making statements that are provably false. Here are some facts for you. In the last five minutes of close games (neither team ahead by more than five points), Rondo shoots jumpers at a higher rate than his average.  He also MAKES a higher percentage than his average. He was not "shut down" or even slowed down in the LA series.  The mix of his production shifted but still added up to the same production as his regular season average - despite his being guarded by an All-Defensive player. His free throw woes in the LA series amounted to an average of one point per game worse than that of an average FT shooter.  None of the games in the series were decided by such a small margin.  In the seventh game of the series, the ultimate time for clutch play, Rondo came within 2 rebounds of a TRIPLE-DOUBLE and missed only one FT. I'm not impressed by flash.  I'm impressed by facts.  And the full facts point to Rondo's being the second best PG in the league, behind only Chris Paul.  So far, you have not produced a single FACT that disproves that conclusion.  Instead, you've cherry picked two of about ten aspects of PG play, and presented them as if they were the only part of basketball that mattered. Everyone has has ever played has had a bad series in some aspect of their play.  That proves NOTHING.  Ray Allen, for instance, had a TERRIBLE series against LA, missing an inordinate number of open shots.   He went almost two entire games without making a single FG.  Rondo's FT shooting was nowhere near that level of futility, nor did it have any impact on a single game - unlike Ray's shooting woes.  According to your logic, we should have substituted Nate for Ray for most of the series. As for your theory that Rondo "doesn't care" about his outside shooting, the FACTS are that until late last year (after KG went down) Doc didn't want Rondo to be thinking about shooting.  It was impressed on him that his job was to set up the Big Three, get them good shots - which he did very well.  After Doc ordered him to start shooting more, Rondo hired Mark to improve his FG and FT shooting.  Price greatly changed Rondo's mechanics, which even you would have to admit takes time to get used to, if you've been shooting the same way since childhood. And finally, a point that isn't a fact, but is a reasonable conclusion: Rondo's decline in FT shooting during the playoffs may very well have been a result of his tiring.  He played more minutes than any other Celtic, took on much more coach-ordered responsibility, and dealt with the difficulty of changing his shot "on the fly", so to speak. The one thing we can be sure of is that Rondo's FT woes were not a reaction to pressure.  His playoff performances last year and this year prove beyond a doubt that playoff pressure only IMPROVES his performance.  And THAT is an aspect of playing ball that is FAR more important than FT shooting!
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    jerry- sad to see that you are a common kool aid drinker instead of an independent thinker.  you began your defense of rondo by stating that if i 'checked the stats' i would see how wrong i am.  then i presented you with rondo's miserable stats from the end of the orlando series through the end of the playoffs and you cited no stats to rebut my arguement.

    now you have lowered yourself to citing 'provable facts' that are little more than jaded opinions in favor of rondo.  like i have said, when rondo is on, he is great for this team.  but if you really believe that rondo's lack of ability to hit the jumper or the bashfullness in taking it is doc's fault then you would probably believe your average politician's campaign promises and then go one step further to believe they came true when they were in fact abandoned.

    when rondo clams up from the outside, he creates misery for the other 4 positions on offense.  perhaps he has come a short ways in the past four years in that he no longer hides in the corner in the playoffs and stays uninvolved.  now, when he can't hit the broad side of a barn in crunch time, he over-dribbles and then makes ill advised passes in traffic as the clock winds down.  i don't know which is better.

    break out some stats on rondo in the laker series or disprove my observations about rondo when he won't / can't shoot.  specifically- those are that ray allen has to work double time curling, cutting through the lane because rondo's man sags.  then there's the extra hassle and work to pierce in the high post set because of the sagging D.  then there's the collapsing into the lane to hassle what little low posting this team manages.

    those are facts.  not opinion.  when rondo doesn't shoot, the defense against us sags and makes offense for this offense-challenged team so much harder.  the reason for rondo's inability to shoot does not lie with doc or danny ordering him not to shoot "for the good of the team"- that statement has a basketball IQ of about 40.

    so for all of rajjie's wonderful regular season, overgambling to get the steals, refusing to shoot the jumper, and stinking on the free throw line, he ended the season just the same after a short burst of being able to shoot in the first few series of the playoffs and then coming up bricks again.

    please cite me some comparable point guards in the history of the game who were so unselfish for the sake of the team that they were woefully incomplete players.  and you can't say: kidd, magic, parker, rose.  the list of bricking PG's who compare to rondo is not a complimentary list.
     
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    Re: Rondo nick names

    Acie, when did you present THE stats from the end of the Orlando series to the end of the Lakers series?  I remember that you posted several cherry-picked stats about FT shooting, rebounds and assists, but that's all.

    I, however, posted stats about Rondo's points, rebounds, assists, steals and turnovers, and then compared them to his regular season averages - thereby demonstrating that Kobe and the vaunted "Laker strategy", had the same effect on Rondo's production as did the AVERAGE pg in the regular season. 

    Now, with regard to Rondo's reluctance to SHOOT (not shoot jumpers - you need to read more carefully), I stated that Doc's instructions to Rondo were to not think about shooting, but to set up the Big Three.  I also stated that about halfway through last season, after KG's injury, Doc told Rondo (and the press) that Rondo should shoot more, following which Rondo hired Mark Price to revamp his jump shooting and his FTs.  That rebutted your statement that Rondo didn't care about correcting those two weaknesses in his game.  (Somehow you forgot to respond to that part of my post.  An oversight, I'm sure.)

    By the way, I didn't "blame" Doc - I think his decisions about Rondo have been excellent. 

    Let me point out that your two paragraphs about the effect Rondo's not shooting more has on his teammates are theories, not fact.  You've presented no evidence to support your theories - you seem to believe that if you assert something, we should all believe it.

    As for your theory that Rondo "refused to shoot the jumper" in the regular season, you might be surprised by the fact that almost half (48%) of Rondo's shots were jumpers.  That's not exactly "refusing to shoot" them, wouldn't you agree?  [stat from 82games.com]  Also, as I've posted previously, in crunch time of close games, Rondo shoots a higher percentage of jumpers and makes a higher percentage of those he takes. 

    How many shots per game do you think Rondo should take, on average?  Should he take more than Paul Pierce?  More than Ray Allen?  More than KG?  What do you think of PGs who lead their teams in number of shots taken?  Is that what a PG is on the floor to do?

    I look forward to your answers.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

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    What about "Kid Teflon"?

    pud
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]Acie, when did you present THE stats from the end of the Orlando series to the end of the Lakers series?  I remember that you posted several cherry-picked stats about FT shooting, rebounds and assists, but that's all. I, however, posted stats about Rondo's points, rebounds, assists, steals and turnovers, and then compared them to his regular season averages - thereby demonstrating that Kobe and the vaunted "Laker strategy", had the same effect on Rondo's production as did the AVERAGE pg in the regular season.  Now, with regard to Rondo's reluctance to SHOOT (not shoot jumpers - you need to read more carefully), I stated that Doc's instructions to Rondo were to not think about shooting, but to set up the Big Three.  I also stated that about halfway through last season, after KG's injury, Doc told Rondo (and the press) that Rondo should shoot more, following which Rondo hired Mark Price to revamp his jump shooting and his FTs.  That rebutted your statement that Rondo didn't care about correcting those two weaknesses in his game.  (Somehow you forgot to respond to that part of my post.  An oversight, I'm sure.) By the way, I didn't "blame" Doc - I think his decisions about Rondo have been excellent.  Let me point out that your two paragraphs about the effect Rondo's not shooting more has on his teammates are theories, not fact.  You've presented no evidence to support your theories - you seem to believe that if you assert something, we should all believe it. As for your theory that Rondo "refused to shoot the jumper" in the regular season, you might be surprised by the fact that almost half (48%) of Rondo's shots were jumpers.  That's not exactly "refusing to shoot" them, wouldn't you agree?  [stat from 82games.com]  Also, as I've posted previously, in crunch time of close games, Rondo shoots a higher percentage of jumpers and makes a higher percentage of those he takes.  How many shots per game do you think Rondo should take, on average?  Should he take more than Paul Pierce?  More than Ray Allen?  More than KG?  What do you think of PGs who lead their teams in number of shots taken?  Is that what a PG is on the floor to do? I look forward to your answers.
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    jerry- maybe you could just answer me, and put it to bed once and for all- who are the other comparable 'star' pg's in the league history who have either unfurled 26% free throw shooting finals series, OR persist in shooting the high 50's to the low 60's % from the line through year 4 full years with no evidence of improvement other than short lived aberrations for a couple of playoff series and thn returning to worse-than-ever FT%. 

    tell me who they are and how they turned their careers around after the end of four full years and how their teams benefitted from such a low skill level of shooting jumpers and free throws during the playoffs and regular seasons over their careers.  explain to me how such performance by a perimeter position in the half court set does not result in defensive sagging by the other team and extra work for everyone else.

    as for your rambling on rondos' FGA's per game and trying to muddy the waters with that- that's very simple- any given game rondo should take the field goals that are presented to him plus anything else he can get on the hurry up, scramble and fast break.  depending on how teams decide to play rondo, that number will be different any given game.  but he should NEVER become passive and a liability on offense such as he still does during crucial periods of time.

    so don't try to cheapen the arguement by claiming i want rondo to shoot too much.  that's ridiculous.  what is the common desire of every real celtics fan is for the guy to take most every jumper that the other teams give the guy- you know- when they sag off and beg him to take the 14-17 foot jumper- remember- the same shot that brevin knight and jacque vaughan have been begged to take and make for over the last decade. 

    and trust me, the last thing that every c's fan wants to see, except for you, is rondo become less aggressive on the drive for fear of being fouled and then going to the line and bricking.  if you don't see from watching that games that this happened in the lakers series last year and also during any particular given stretch of rondo's cold FT% shooting, whenever that may happen, then maybe you should do the following: 

    go ahead and grab and older relative from an era where fundamentals were fundamentals and just a basic expectation of someone perceived to be a star player.  they will be able to help you out a lot.  sit them down with some pizza and you and comb through games 3-6 vs. LA where rondo was unable to be a good playmaker or shooter and see what they tell ya.
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]Acie, when did you present THE stats from the end of the Orlando series to the end of the Lakers series?  I remember that you posted several cherry-picked stats about FT shooting, rebounds and assists, but that's all. I, however, posted stats about Rondo's points, rebounds, assists, steals and turnovers, and then compared them to his regular season averages - thereby demonstrating that Kobe and the vaunted "Laker strategy", had the same effect on Rondo's production as did the AVERAGE pg in the regular season.  Now, with regard to Rondo's reluctance to SHOOT (not shoot jumpers - you need to read more carefully), I stated that Doc's instructions to Rondo were to not think about shooting, but to set up the Big Three.  I also stated that about halfway through last season, after KG's injury, Doc told Rondo (and the press) that Rondo should shoot more, following which Rondo hired Mark Price to revamp his jump shooting and his FTs.  That rebutted your statement that Rondo didn't care about correcting those two weaknesses in his game.  (Somehow you forgot to respond to that part of my post.  An oversight, I'm sure.) By the way, I didn't "blame" Doc - I think his decisions about Rondo have been excellent.  Let me point out that your two paragraphs about the effect Rondo's not shooting more has on his teammates are theories, not fact.  You've presented no evidence to support your theories - you seem to believe that if you assert something, we should all believe it. As for your theory that Rondo "refused to shoot the jumper" in the regular season, you might be surprised by the fact that almost half (48%) of Rondo's shots were jumpers.  That's not exactly "refusing to shoot" them, wouldn't you agree?  [stat from 82games.com]  Also, as I've posted previously, in crunch time of close games, Rondo shoots a higher percentage of jumpers and makes a higher percentage of those he takes.  How many shots per game do you think Rondo should take, on average?  Should he take more than Paul Pierce?  More than Ray Allen?  More than KG?  What do you think of PGs who lead their teams in number of shots taken?  Is that what a PG is on the floor to do? I look forward to your answers.
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    jerry- maybe you could just answer me, and put it to bed once and for all- who are the other comparable 'star' pg's in the league history who have either unfurled 26% free throw shooting finals series, OR persist in shooting the high 50's to the low 60's % from the line through year 4 full years with no evidence of improvement other than short lived aberrations for a couple of playoff series and thn returning to worse-than-ever FT%. 

    tell me who they are and how they turned their careers around after the end of four full years and how their teams benefitted from such a low skill level of shooting jumpers and free throws during the playoffs and regular seasons over their careers.  explain to me how such performance by a perimeter position in the half court set does not result in defensive sagging by the other team and extra work for everyone else.

    as for your rambling on rondos' FGA's per game and trying to muddy the waters with that- that's very simple- any given game rondo should take the field goals that are presented to him plus anything else he can get on the hurry up, scramble and fast break.  depending on how teams decide to play rondo, that number will be different any given game.  but he should NEVER become passive and a liability on offense such as he still does during crucial periods of time.

    so don't try to cheapen the arguement by claiming i want rondo to shoot too much.  that's ridiculous.  what is the common desire of every real celtics fan is for the guy to take most every jumper that the other teams give the guy- you know- when they sag off and beg him to take the 14-17 foot jumper- remember- the same shot that brevin knight and jacque vaughan have been begged to take and make for over the last decade. 

    and trust me, the last thing that every c's fan wants to see, except for you, is rondo become less aggressive on the drive for fear of being fouled and then going to the line and bricking.  if you don't see from watching that games that this happened in the lakers series last year and also during any particular given stretch of rondo's cold FT% shooting, whenever that may happen, then maybe you should do the following: 

    go ahead and grab and older relative from an era where fundamentals were fundamentals and just a basic expectation of someone perceived to be a star player.  they will be able to help you out a lot.  sit them down with some pizza and you and comb through games 3-6 vs. LA where rondo was unable to be a good playmaker or shooter and see what they tell ya.
     
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    Re: Rondo nick names

    acie, I have been an avid follower of NBA basketball since 1958.  I played until I was 55 years old.  I don't need any lectures from you about fundamentals.

    The difference between us is that for you the only fundamentals are jumpshots and FTs.  For me, they also include DEFENSE, penetration, rebounds, assists, number of shots missed, steals, and the ability to play better when crunch time comes. In all of those areas, Rondo excels. 

    You stated that Rondo was less aggresive on drives during the LA series.  So - according to you - Rondo was afraid to take jump shots, was less aggresive on his drives, and was terrible at the free throw line.  Since that covers all the ways of scoring, doesn't it seem strange that Rondo's scoring average in the Laker series was IDENTICAL to his regular season average?  How do you explain that?

    I also find it odd that you seem to think that the only playoff series that Rondo has ever played was against LA.  His stellar performances in the '09 playoffs as well as this year's, seem to contradict every point you have tried to make.  I suggest you do a little research on the subject of playoff triple-doubles in those two years - comparing Rondo's to those of the ENTIRE REST OF THE NBA! 

    Rondo's FGAs per game are "muddying the waters"?   To me, that cop-out appears to mean that "muddying the waters" stands for "I don't want to talk about that because it would make my argument look bad". 

    Here's some data for you: if Rondo had taken an average of ONE MORE SHOT PER GAME, he would have had more shots per game played than Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett.  Which means that - according to you - Rondo SHOULD take more shots than anyone on the team.  To me, that is not Celtics basketball. 
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]acie, I have been an avid follower of NBA basketball since 1958.  I played until I was 55 years old.  I don't need any lectures from you about fundamentals. The difference between us is that for you the only fundamentals are jumpshots and FTs. 
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    ok, then end the suspense and tell me:

    1) how rondo's fundamental skill level is passable

    or

    2) why it isn't needed in rondo's case.

    please explain
     
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    Re: Rondo nick names

    Remember Mr. Green Jeans? In Rondo's case, given his sweet feminine look, Ms. Queen Greens
     
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    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]...... doesn't it seem strange that Rondo's scoring average in the Laker series was IDENTICAL to his regular season average?  How do you explain that? I also find it odd that you seem to think that the only playoff series that Rondo has ever played was against LA.  His stellar performances in the '09 playoffs as well as this year's, seem to contradict every point you have tried to make. 
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    jerry, jerry, jerry.

    i have consistently made the point of my arguement the evaporation point of rondo's aggressiveness in the lakers season- specifically games 3-6 when it was  a wide open series.  very wide open.

    let us take a look, shall we?

    Rondo for Games 3-6 vs. LAL

    12.25 PPG
    6.25 AST
    2.75 T/O
    2.27 AST/TO
    2.5 FTA/ Game
    1/8 FT = 12.5%
    24/52 FG = 46.1%

    Compared to Rondo regular season:

    13.7 PPG
    9.8 AST
    3.0 T/O
    3.27 AST / TO
    3.5 FTA / Game
    62.1 FT%
    50.8 FG%

    And if I was to outline the rest of Rondo's playoffs not including games 3-6 vs LAL when he got scared to shoot, the difference would be even more vast and alarming.  He was a TOTALLY DIFFERENT PLAYER in the meat and potatoes stretch of the lakers series, Jerry.  And not in a good way.

    Further evidence as to the lack of aggressiveness during crucial games 3-6 is the fact that Rondo averaged 4.75 FTA's per game for the WHOLE playoffs and that includes these passive games 3-6 in the LA series where he shot almost no freebies in a game.

    And now that you mention the 09 playoffs, a similar pattern emerged in Rondo's play.  After being prolific against the Bulls, and accurate (enought) but not great (64%) from the stripe and with jumpers, Rondo had a lapse in aggressiveness starting in Game 2 vs. Orlando.  And that does not even consider the fact that while Rondo was getting near / or triple doubles vs. Chicago, he was not preventing Rose from getting much less.

    So if you can manage to get beyond that shiny object of the abberational statistics with Rondo, that I too really wish were regular instead of abberations, you can see that if Rondo was ALWAYS the player that he shows flashes of being, he would be the top guard in the game. 

    However, a guard w/o a consistent jumper threat and w/o the ability to consistently nail free throws becomes schizophrenic by nature and who could blame him I suppose.  I wouldn't want to go to the stripe if I knew I couldn't hit.

    Back to 08-09- take a looky at the stats.  Rondo had a brutal game 1 vs. ORL from the field but made up for it like all top shelf players should by getting his FTA's, and hitting them.  But then, from Game 2-7, Rondo reverted to a non-aggressive personality where he averaged but 3 FTA's per game and managed 55.5% FT% from games 2-7 vs. Orlando.  And, over that stretch of Games 2-7 vs. ORL, Rondo's FG% was 40.2%.  So he struggled mightily to hit the shot and the free throw.

    In the 08-9 playoffs, rondo's role was admittedly different with KG out.  So you can't really look at the stats through the same level of scrutiny as this last year when the team was whole.  Rondo did well vs. Chi but I sure would have liked to see him be able to outscore Rose, which he didn't.  Or at least hold him lower than several points over his regular season average- that would have been a real statement. 

    The scoring between the two was 19.7ppg for Rose and 19.4ppg for Rondo.  Rose shot 50% FG's and Rondo shot 45%.  Rose shot 80% FT's and Rondo shot 64% FT's.  Rondo rebounded and assisted more than Rose.  Really my only hope was coming into that series was that Rondo would hold the rookie down in scoring and that didn't really happen. 

    In hindsight- imagine how badly Rondo would have smoked Rose in that matchup if his FT's were at 75% or better- it would have brought a whole different level of confidence to Rondo's game to drive and get fouled.  Think how Tiny Archibald did his business.  He was small but he was dominant and he distributed the ball as well- was an all around threat.

    Going forward, I have no trepidations with Rondo taking over a bigger scoring role and I really don't think the big old 3 would care one bit if Rondo chucked in 18 or more a night because all of it would make their lives so much easier.  In fact, Rondo HAS to step up and carry some major regular season nut this year, more than last year by far. 

    The reasons why he has to do this are that everyone is a year older and Ray's minutes and therefore scoring have to come way down in order for us to compete in the post season.  Ray's had ZILCH left the last 3 seasons and counting when it comes to the playoffs.  So there's your pick up for Rondo's points and nobody will care one bit about it.  

    Rondo should go up 5 points a game this year.  And I don't care if that comes right off of KG's total- in fact, it should.  And there's some Ray scoring to pick up to, assuming we are going to do the right thing and finally limit Ray's minutes played to a reasonable level. 

    Then after a FULL season of being ABLE to be the man consistently when it comes to commanding the open J rather than IT bossing Rondo around what a difference that would make.  And of course also not being afraid of the FT, Rondo would be a totally different player come playoff time.  He WOULD be able to push the button and be great WHEN THE CELTS NEED HIM TO BE, not just when Rondo CAN be according to his given confidence level that night.

    See????!@@!#$@$#

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    In a 1/3/10 post here at BDC, J/C asserts....

    "Where is the evidence that playing off Rondo works?  He's fourth in the league in assists (1/10th of an assist per game from being third), so it doesn't hurt in that regard, and, in fact, almost certainly helps.  He can score at will, so it doesn't take away from his scoring ability, and playing off of him allows him to slip away from his defender to make easy scores under the basket, as we've frequently seen him do.  It doesn't hurt his FG%, which is merely tops in the league for guards.  It doesn't hurt his teammates FG%, which leads the league."

    In light of what happened in the finals against an effective sagging Laker D, I wonder if J/C might need to reconsider this opinion.

    Sounds to me like J/C is suggesting that cheating off of Rondo plays right into Rondo's hands.

    Not what I saw by any stretch of the imagination.

    Pud
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    acie, acie, acie.

    It's interesting that you cherry pick four games in the LA series, leaving out games 2 and 7, in which Rondo had a triple double and then fell two rebounds short of a second triple double.  Somehow those two games AREN'T "meat and potatoes? 

    Some questions:

    1) what makes those four games - which the Celtics split, by the way - the "meat and potatoes"?   The food that those four games were most like was "picked cherries", not meat and potatoes.  To me, the entire series came down to game 7 (another "very winnable" game).  That was the game in which Rondo nearly had a second triple double against the vaunted LA defense and its All-NBA Defensive first teamer.
      
    If Rondo was "too scared to shoot" in games 3-6, how come in games 4 and 6 he took 15 shots in each, well above his season average?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    In Response to Re: Rondo nick names:
    [QUOTE]acie, acie, acie. It's interesting that you cherry pick four games in the LA series, leaving out games 2 and 7, in which Rondo had a triple double and then fell two rebounds short of a second triple double.  Somehow those two games AREN'T "meat and potatoes?  Some questions: 1) what makes those four games - which the Celtics split, by the way - the "meat and potatoes"?   The food that those four games were most like was "picked cherries", not meat and potatoes.  To me, the entire series came down to game 7 (another "very winnable" game).  That was the game in which Rondo nearly had a second triple double against the vaunted LA defense and its All-NBA Defensive first teamer.    If Rondo was "too scared to shoot" in games 3-6, how come in games 4 and 6 he took 15 shots in each, well above his season average?
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    jerry, i have cited a bevy of statistics on how rondo's game would/should be different if he had the whole tool bag all the time.  then you come back and say what about the good games.  and i have repeatedly stated that i love rondo's good games.  the problem is that since he doesn't practice doing the right thing in all 82 that he doesn't have the skills down pat to do it just when we need it. 

    games 3-6 were crucial because we were in a position to put the lakers away for good in that period and didn't do it.  simple analysis of FGA's with rondo doesn't mean much.  in game 7 he hucked up a lot of desperation shots.  and i never said he didn't have a good game when he came up with the triple double. 

    but what i have said is where did that game go after that point?  it sure didn't show up for games 3-6!  and that apparently is something that you are unprepared / unable to deal with.  maybe ingest some fish oil caplets over the next couple days and re-visit the stats again. i'm not sure what else to tell you. 

    maybe also re-watch the games 3-6 and see how the sagging D hurt the C's?  you have to do some thinking on your own, not just grabbing ahold of whatever thing you can find that you think you can play devil's advocate with.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeezem. Show jeezem's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    oooh - how about we call him "SWISH" ha ha
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Rondo nick names

    When J/C claims that Rondo literally scores at will, scores when the team needs for him to score and is utterly unselfish to the point of fault, we are dealing with a delusional system that is quite remarkable... and very resistant to reason, logic, debate or reality based stats.

    Double your Vitamin "H", J/C and get some rest.

    Pud
     

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