Soft Cap Question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Soft Cap Question

    Let me try to frame this right:

    Soft Cap: 58M

    Luxury Tax Line: 70.3M

    Luxury Tax Apron: 74.3M

    Current Committed Salary 2013-2014: 75.9M

     

    From what I understand, if we can get below the tax line enough so that the MLE doesn't exceed the Tax Apron, then we can use it to sign a FA (like we did Terry last year) for ~5M for 4 years.

    If we waive/buy-out Paul Pierce, we drop to 65M. This allows the use of the MLE, but we also have about 4M in wiggle room. (For simplicity's sake, say we waive D.J. White's non-guarenteed 1M and use that money towards our 2013 rookie)

    65M

    + 4M

    69M = below tax line

    + 5M MLE

    74M = below tax apron


    So (ignoring any errors in numbers) what can we do with that 4M? 

    1. Use it to sign our own Free Agents: just Wilcox

    2. Use it to with a S&T where we can trade someone like C. Lee and get back up to 125% of Lee's contract +100k. In this case it would be an extra 1.35M in salary.

    3. Use it to Sign other teams's Free Agents. This is what I am fuzzy on. Can we use this to sign a free agent, or do you need to be under the soft cap in order to sign a free agent from outside your team without using a S&T?

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to R9R's comment:

    Let me try to frame this right:

    Soft Cap: 58M

    Luxury Tax Line: 70.3M

    Luxury Tax Apron: 74.3M

    Current Committed Salary 2013-2014: 75.9M

     

    From what I understand, if we can get below the tax line enough so that the MLE doesn't exceed the Tax Apron, then we can use it to sign a FA (like we did Terry last year) for ~5M for 4 years.

    If we waive/buy-out Paul Pierce, we drop to 65M. This allows the use of the MLE, but we also have about 4M in wiggle room. (For simplicity's sake, say we waive D.J. White's non-guarenteed 1M and use that money towards our 2013 rookie)

    65M

    + 4M

    69M = below tax line

    + 5M MLE

    74M = below tax apron

     

    So (ignoring any errors in numbers) what can we do with that 4M? 

    1. Use it to sign our own Free Agents: just Wilcox

    2. Use it to with a S&T where we can trade someone like C. Lee and get back up to 125% of Lee's contract +100k. In this case it would be an extra 1.35M in salary.

    3. Use it to Sign other teams's Free Agents. This is what I am fuzzy on. Can we use this to sign a free agent, or do you need to be under the soft cap in order to sign a free agent from outside your team without using a S&T?




    You need to be under the cap to sign a Free Agent.  I'm also unsure if sign and trades are still allowed.  I thought there was a 2 year window on those........

    Finally, I can't see one team out there that will take Lee's albatross salary.....

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    Ok thanks, that's what I thought. So this is exactly why the Celtics cannot waive Pierce and then resign him to a smaller deal. They would need to get below the cap to do that.

     

    I can't imagine us keeping Terry, Lee, Crawford, and Williams. To me, it makes the most sense to keep Wiliams and Terry. I think Danny holds on to Lee, and then (similar to us last year) once the favorable SG free agents become taken, Lee's value will increase. I bet if Memphis doesn't win this year, and loses Tony Allen, they may find value in a Courtney Lee and may even take on the extra salary (meaning send back 25% less or non-guarenteed contracts)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    I'm sure the Celts do not want to pay repeater tax. That's why there's this talk of waiving Pierce.

    Amnestying or waiving Pierce would ensure that the Celts will not pay repeater tax in 2015. 



    You gotta believe that there is close to 0% chance they Amnesty Paul. Do they really need that extra 5M? Only if KG straight up retires and we really, really, really want a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson.

     

    If you Amnesty Paul, ownership still pays the whole 16M. There is no cap hit. But, this also means Paul has no influence on his destiny. The highest bidding team will scoop him up. He could land in Toronto or Charlette (trying to think of the worst places). That would be a very sad end to a Celtics legend.

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kdp59. Show kdp59's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    well F#C^!!

     

    then just bring back Krstic next year!!

     

    blow this $h#t up.

     

    Krstic ($4M)

    Melo

    Rookie (Dieng?)

    Bass

    Sullinger

    Green

    MLE here

    Lee

    Terry

    Crawford

    Bradley

    Rondo

     

    add in T. Willimas, Randolph and White as needed/watned to fill out the roster and then head into the Lottery the next two years while all those CRAPPY contracts finish up ( Lee, Terry, Bass).

     

     

     

     

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    I'm sure the Celts do not want to pay repeater tax. That's why there's this talk of waiving Pierce.

    Amnestying or waiving Pierce would ensure that the Celts will not pay repeater tax in 2015. 



    http://www.hark.com/clips/kbcgtvgdwr-idiots

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to R9R's comment:

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    I'm sure the Celts do not want to pay repeater tax. That's why there's this talk of waiving Pierce.

    Amnestying or waiving Pierce would ensure that the Celts will not pay repeater tax in 2015. 

     



    You gotta believe that there is close to 0% chance they Amnesty Paul. Do they really need that extra 5M? Only if KG straight up retires and we really, really, really want a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson.

     

     

    If you Amnesty Paul, ownership still pays the whole 16M. There is no cap hit. But, this also means Paul has no influence on his destiny. The highest bidding team will scoop him up. He could land in Toronto or Charlette (trying to think of the worst places). That would be a very sad end to a Celtics legend.

     


    Agree.  I do believe that Pierce won't be back next season.  It would be strange to see him playing for another team.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to R9R's comment:

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    I'm sure the Celts do not want to pay repeater tax. That's why there's this talk of waiving Pierce.

    Amnestying or waiving Pierce would ensure that the Celts will not pay repeater tax in 2015. 

     



    You gotta believe that there is close to 0% chance they Amnesty Paul. Do they really need that extra 5M? Only if KG straight up retires and we really, really, really want a Josh Smith or Al Jefferson.

     

     

    If you Amnesty Paul, ownership still pays the whole 16M. There is no cap hit. But, this also means Paul has no influence on his destiny. The highest bidding team will scoop him up. He could land in Toronto or Charlette (trying to think of the worst places). That would be a very sad end to a Celtics legend.

     

     



    Amnestying Pierce would be a "win-win" situation for both the Celts and Pierce.

     

    Why?

    Pierce gets his 15.3m and the Celts totally remove 15.3m from the payroll.

    Remember, if the Celts waive Pierce, the Celts would still take a cap hit of 5m. Amnestying Pierce means the Celts instantly go under the cap.

    The salary cap next season is projected to be at 60m, by the way. So if the Celts amnesty Pierce, they'll be under the cap for sure.



    You just contradicted your prior statements about the C's being cheap! Why would the ownership pay Pierce $15MM out of their profits when they don't have to ... to save a $5MM cap hit?  YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT!!! 

    http://www.hark.com/clips/kbcgtvgdwr-idiots

    Secondly, the C's were only $1MM into luxury tax this season and if Pierce is bought out they may not pay a luxury tax next season. And the following year KG's contract expires if he doesn't retire before that. So it's highly unlikely they will start the repeater clock for 2014-15.


    From a site you've quoted before ... did you forget already?

     

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2F2013%2F2%2F20%2F4008590%2Fnba-trade-deadline-2013-repeater-tax&ei=Nc6TUZqqF_jJ4APV-4GIAg&usg=AFQjCNGSILFKTevyQvl6o3MZhhFbthJPjQ&bvm=bv.46471029,d.dmg

     

    ".... if you exceed the tax threshold in three out of the previous four seasons, you're on the hook for the higher tax if you exceed the threshold again. The "clock" began last year. The first year of the repeater tax is in 2014-15. Only teams that have been taxpayers in 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 will pay it. In 2015-16, teams that have paid the tax in three out of four of those seasons will pay repeater tax."

    Even if the C's were over the upcoming season it is doubtful they would be come 2014-15' with both Pierce & KG gone so relax.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    I still think picking up Pierce's option, then trading him and having KG retire is the best scenario for us!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

     

    I still think picking up Pierce's option, then trading him and having KG retire is the best scenario for us!

     




    If they have another team lined up for a trade, agreed!  Otherwise it may be too risky to plan on a trade mid-year or even later. Danny hasn't liked his offers so far and that's not likely to change.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

    I still think picking up Pierce's option, then trading him and having KG retire is the best scenario for us!



    I disagree with you and Fierce. I think that the best and most likely scenerio is that they buy out Paul, KG stays and Doc (obviously) stays. I think that Doc plays KG limited minutes, and Danny keeps him for the trade deadline. As stated above, with this we will have 5M to spend on a F.A with the MLE. I think Danny finds Courtney Lee a new home, possibly with Crawford, or possibly with a S&T involving Wilcox.

    Rondo / Williams

    Bradley / Terry

    Green / MLE / C. Lee S&T

    Sullinger / Bass / Randolph

    KG/ Melo / Rookie

     

    I think we roll with this group. See how we are doing at the trade deadline, and if its not working out and KG wants out, then pull the trigger on a KG to LAC/LAL for whatever we can get.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to R9R's comment:

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

     

    I still think picking up Pierce's option, then trading him and having KG retire is the best scenario for us!

     



    I disagree with you and Fierce. I think that the best and most likely scenerio is that they buy out Paul, KG stays and Doc (obviously) stays. I think that Doc plays KG limited minutes, and Danny keeps him for the trade deadline. As stated above, with this we will have 5M to spend on a F.A with the MLE. I think Danny finds Courtney Lee a new home, possibly with Crawford, or possibly with a S&T involving Wilcox.

     

    Rondo / Williams

    Bradley / Terry

    Green / MLE / C. Lee S&T

    Sullinger / Bass / Randolph

    KG/ Melo / Rookie

     

    I think we roll with this group. See how we are doing at the trade deadline, and if its not working out and KG wants out, then pull the trigger on a KG to LAC/LAL for whatever we can get.




    Makes much more sense than the Fungus that's for sure. With a friendly GM in Phoenix, how bout Lee for Beasley ... we need a F and they need a SG. Maybe Doc can teach him some D. At his size he could come in handy especially as a backup. Then Cole Aldrich could be a pleasant surprise in a backup role at Center.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

     

     

    Makes much more sense than the Fungus that's for sure. With a friendly GM in Phoenix, how bout Lee for Beasley ... we need a F and they need a SG. Maybe Doc can teach him some D. At his size he could come in handy especially as a backup. Then Cole Aldrich could be a pleasant surprise in a backup role at Center.

     



    You're really funny.

     

    When was the last time any of your predictions/ideas panned out?


    Didn't you also threaten to sue BDC? 

    So how's that lawsuit coming along?

    Waiting for you answer.




    You must be losing this battle if your gonna start fighting yesterday's war ... HAHAHA!!!

    Besides, it's not about ideas "panning out" or being correct. It's about sharing ideas, communicating and debating w/o making it personal as you always try to do. Sharing ideas and knowledge with other people sharing the same interest is gratifying ... not being correct as you seem to think.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

     

     

    You must be losing this battle if your gonna start fighting yesterday's war ... HAHAHA!!!

     

    Besides, it's not about ideas "panning out" or being correct. It's about sharing ideas, communicating and debating w/o making it personal as you always try to do. Sharing ideas and knowledge with other people sharing the same interest is gratifying ... not being correct as you seem to think.

     



    The problem is you're sharing false information.

     

    Courtney Lee for Beasley?

    Really???

    That's a trade that doesn't make sense for both teams.




    Seems like Beasley needs to spend some time in China ... I hear that league humbles you

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    With all the Posts about how would we feel if PP went to the Lakers or Heat, I would like an answer to the following. It may have been addressed in previous posts but I didn't have time to read them.

     

    Can somebody explain that PP is owed 15 mil but can be bought out for 5 mil ?  Can't we renegotiate his $15 mil contract and offer him as much as any other team would. I don't think he's worth more than $5mil.

    Please explain the same with KG...I don't know what he is making.


    All I'm saying is that if money is not the object and both want to remain loyal to Boston and retire as Celtics, why not play for $4-5 mil as both will be playing limited minutes any place I would guess.


    But regarding money not being a question when someone is asked to do something but doesn't,  I'm reminded that when someone said money was not the question, to ask the question again !

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    With all the Posts about how would we feel if PP went to the Lakers or Heat, I would like an answer to the following. It may have been addressed in previous posts but I didn't have time to read them.

     

    Can somebody explain that PP is owed 15 mil but can be bought out for 5 mil ?  Can't we renegotiate his $15 mil contract and offer him as much as any other team would. I don't think he's worth more than $5mil.

    Please explain the same with KG...I don't know what he is making.


    All I'm saying is that if money is not the object and both want to remain loyal to Boston and retire as Celtics, why not play for $4-5 mil as both will be playing limited minutes any place I would guess.


    But regarding money not being a question when someone is asked to do something but doesn't,  I'm reminded that when someone said money was not the question, to ask the question again !




    New CBA says a player can not renogotiate his deal.  PP has a team option, so they can pay him 15 mill, if they keep him by a certain date, OR , if they don't want him they buy him out for 5 mill by the same date.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    In response to Red-16Russ-11's comment:

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

     

    With all the Posts about how would we feel if PP went to the Lakers or Heat, I would like an answer to the following. It may have been addressed in previous posts but I didn't have time to read them.

     

    Can somebody explain that PP is owed 15 mil but can be bought out for 5 mil ?  Can't we renegotiate his $15 mil contract and offer him as much as any other team would. I don't think he's worth more than $5mil.

    Please explain the same with KG...I don't know what he is making.


    All I'm saying is that if money is not the object and both want to remain loyal to Boston and retire as Celtics, why not play for $4-5 mil as both will be playing limited minutes any place I would guess.


    But regarding money not being a question when someone is asked to do something but doesn't,  I'm reminded that when someone said money was not the question, to ask the question again !

     




    New CBA says a player can not renogotiate his deal.  PP has a team option, so they can pay him 15 mill, if they keep him by a certain date, OR , if they don't want him they buy him out for 5 mill by the same date.

     




    Isn't buying him out the same as renegotiating his contract. Or do you mean he is now free to negotiate with someone else or again with us. If so, he could negotiate again with us for $1.00 as he got $5 mil as if he wanted to be loyal & money not an object. However, he may want another ring, and going to the Heat could give it to him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from R9R. Show R9R's posts

    Re: Soft Cap Question

    As I understand it, the one caveat is that we COULD buy out PP, meaning 5M to him, 5M against our cap and resign him to a deal (say 4M). However, this requires us to get below the salary cap which is ~60M. Currently we are at 76. So if KG (12M) retires and we buy out PP (16M) then we get to 54M. At this point, we could re-sign PP, but he would be a restricted free agent meaning we would have to pay market value (what other teams would offer him) or he would have to sign a friendly deal and take less money. Ultimately though without KG, we are not even close to contenders even if Paul returns, so what would be the point of this?

    Most likely scenerio: Paul is bought out, has his pick of teams (kind of like Ray did) and KG keeps playing. Kevin has the no-trade clause so he has some control over his own destiny. At the trade deadline, if we are doing well enough Kevin can stay. If we are struggling and depending on a bunch of other factors, Kevin could ask to be traded, probably to LA.

     

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