Re: The Five Greatest NBA teams of all time.
posted at 6/18/2011 9:21 PM EDT
In Response to Re: The Five Greatest NBA teams of all time.
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Five Greatest NBA teams of all time. : Not sure you should be talking about bias. "Any team with Russell would have beaten any of the MJ teams" ... " MJ had the distinct advantage of not playing against any opposition". Great your a Celtics fans like 90% of the people on here. But your post shows a lack of appreciation , understanding and knowledge of the NBA. First of all if you think the league just started being fixed , rigged , w/e you want to call it. Well that shows you either dont have a clue or are just fooling yourself. Its been in sports forever , every sport , fact! And as for 45 never beat anybody? Again you just dont have a clue. Lakers , Pistons , Magic , Jazz , Supersonics , Knicks , Pacers , Trail Blazers , Heat , Cavs , Suns , Hawks are some of the teams 45 beat while getting to or getting a ring. Are you really trying to say that basketball wasnt at its peak from the late 80's to late 90's. Just put the whole 80's-90's in there as a whole. Way better then 50's , 60's etc. You cant even compare the level of talent , competition , physical skill set with anything before that. It shows that you love the game but your bias or denial w/e you prefer just pours through. MJ didnt get away with anything that any other superstar got or gets now. If anything you should be talking about the league today. Theres absolutely no D at all and the worst fix jobs of the last 30-40 years have been 2002 , 2006 and this year with the Heat.
Posted by startrightnow[/QUOTE]
You made some interesting comments and I will try to reply to a few. Obviously my replies are my opinion and I probably am biased because I believe what I believe. When we are speaking of subjective type analysis, everyone will have their own bias.
1. IMO Bill Russell was the greatest of all time. I have not seen anyone come along since he left basketball that could control a game as well as he could. He is the only player that other teams Consistently stopped moving ahead on a fast break when it was 2, 3 or 4 on 1 and Russell was the one. That is something that I have only seen on a consistent basis with Russell. Unfortunately blocked shot stats were not kept when Russell played because that was a big part of his game every game. Can you name a player now or since Russell retired where blocked shots were a significant part of his game, every game? I can not! Russell controlled the game he was in from the defensive end of the floor, but he also started the famed Celtic fast break by rebounding and getting the ball to the likes of Cousy, Jones, Havlichik etc. Mainly it was Cousy until the Cooz retired. Russell was 6' 9 1/2" tall with very long arms and the best timing instinct of any player I have had the pleasure of watching the past 60 years. He was blessed with the ability to jump at the right time, and he jumped very high. No one has come along with his distinct abilities since he left the game. Now is that Bias? I consider it to be a knowledgeable opinion. You are certainly free to have your own opinion. However, unless you saw Russell play, I doubt that you can understand his true greatness. For instance, if you tried to explain to someone who had never seen MJ play how great he was, they just might have some difficulty visioning it. I can appreciate those, who through no fault of their own never saw Bill Russell play, having a difficult time agreeing with me. It is to be expected. On the other hand, I never actually saw babe ruth play baseball, but I have a strong feeling that he was one of the greatest baseball players of all time, if not the greatest.
2. IMO MJ's greatest opposition was Utah with Stockton and Malone. I do not consider that Utah team to be a great team, yet that team IMO was the main opposition MJ had. The Celtics in the 80's had Philly, Then LA then Detroit to compete with and they all were far superior to Utah of the 90's.
3. Rules and Regualtions: You may think that the officials of the 50's and 60's called games in a similar manner as they do today. I can tell you for sure that if you feel that way you are wrong. Bob Cousy, one of the greatest stars of the 50's, could not take two steps without being called for traveling. Rondo gets a defensive rebound and many times takes 3 or 4 steps before putting the ball on the floor. Call it what you want, but back in the 50's and 60's star power and calls were not what they are now. Not even close! Star power and ridiculous calls done by officials on a routing basis started in the 80's with King David Stern. The Celtics benefitted with Mchale being allowed to take an extra slip step because the league stated it was his patented move. A patented move whereby he moved his pivot foot every time---that is traveling in any basketball game other than the NBA. MJ got away with taking 3, 4 or in at least one case I saw and taped, he took 9 steps and put the ball on the floor just one time. He got the ball at just behind midcourt on the right hand side and ran to the top of the circle and then to the left corner and thyen ran under the basket and layed the ball up with his right hand whi9le the announcer stated, "I have never seen anything like that before" and the home crowd gave MJ a standing ovation. I must agree, I had never seen anything like that before either--9 steps and the ball hit the floor one time.
MJ's push off of Byrun Russell is one of the classic's of all time. Any other player on the Chicago team who might have done that, including Scottie Pipen, the whistle blows and the foul is called and the basket is waived off. In this case MJ is congratulated for hitting the winning and clinching shot, while his defensive opposition player is trying to get up off the court floor after being shoved done by MJ.
I do agree with you that Kobe and James and some other so called super stars of today get the same kind of benefit of official calls. I do not agree that Cousy, Russell, Jerry West, Oscar, Wilt, Bob Petit, John Havlichik, Dave Cowens, Willis Reed etc. etc. etc. ever got that same favorable treatment.
I do agree with you about the recent fix jobs. That is another David Stern Production through his officials. David Stern was determined to increase the popularity of Pro basketball and he has been extremely successful. In so doing he created the Star system. He also meshed some of the Harlem Globetrotter officiating with WWE activities somehow connected to basketball. When you see Rondo thrown to the court, that is part of the WWE connection. I can not wait until Stern retires. He has changed basketball to attract Yippees and thedrinking crowd, not for the benefit of pure basketball fans.
All of the above is MY OPINION! I have been watching pro basketball since the very early 50's.
PS: For those of you who think white players dominated the game in the 60's, you are absolutely wrong. The Celtics started 5 black players in the first half of the 60's. Havlichik was the 6th man. They could all run and run fast. They were not slow footed. In fact, I wonder what player today could keep up with John (white man) Havlichik even if they were running with the ball?