The Tragedy of King James

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    The Tragedy of King James


       And the tragedy  that is MeBron is - here is a player of extrortinary talent and skill who almost inexplicably is able to diminish the value of anyone who plays on his team.     Great champions elevate the play of their temmates.  Pierce plays better when Garnett is on the floor, Rondo plays better when he has ShaQ and Ray Allen to pass to, McCale and Parrish played better when Bird was on the floor,  everyone on the team plays better defense when Garnett is playing...   Can you name one player who plays better when teaming up with MeBron.
    I can't.   
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Great point!

    I think his biggest mistake was not going to college at least one year. He's not mature enough OFF the court to be a leader ON the court. He leads by statistics but leadership is much more than that. He doesn't know what to do when adversity hits. He thinks the NBA is like playing AAU ball. Gather as much talent and make a Superteam, clown the other team, make spectacular plays but when games are tight (which most are in the NBA) what happens then?? He doesn't know how to handle it and that's why he teamed up with Wade so all the blame doesn't come on him.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    The problem for James is he has the physical skills of the star player, but the mental toughness of the sidekick.

    PA
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    I don't buy this argument.  Cleveland played pretty darn well with Lebron and compiled a great W-L record despite an average supporting cast.  LeBron made that entire team better.  Unfortuneately, they bumped into an eqaully good Celtics team that knows how to win in the playoffs.   

    Miami is a different story. You have 3 players who are used to controlling the ball and don't know how to play any other way so they literally get in eachothers way.  I maintain that any team with Dampier as its center is an automatic loser. plus they don't have a decent PG nor bench.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhajra. Show dhajra's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    All good points.  James has a super EGO, but lacks mental toughness.  Most great players have super egos, or they wouldn't be great players, but the difference is most truly great players can back up what they say. 

    I predict that if the Heat don't win a championship this year (extremely doubtful) or next, the King will move on again and again, if necessary.  He may eventually get his championship, but he'll never be a legend like Russell, Bird, Jordan, Bryant (groan), etc. -- players who stuck with their teams and led them to championships.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Videoburns,
    Excellent point I don't think Lebron makes any one better that he plays with.  Everything is designed around him and what is best for his game.  Since the time he singlehandedly beat the Pistons in the eastern conference in every key series he has come up short.
    This is not an anomaly it is a trend.  A significant trend.  He is too young and blinded by his success to dig deep enough to see why this always happens.

    It may finally dawn on him after this season, but like Wilt he may just never get the team game.  Wilt won two championships but was never a champion.  Lebron may eventually win one but he also will never be a champion.  That is the tragedy of King James.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]   And the tragedy  that is MeBron is - here is a player of extrortinary talent and skill who almost inexplicably is able to diminish the value of anyone who plays on his team.     Great champions elevate the play of their temmates.  Pierce plays better when Garnett is on the floor, Rondo plays better when he has ShaQ and Ray Allen to pass to, McCale and Parrish played better when Bird was on the floor,  everyone on the team plays better defense when Garnett is playing...   Can you name one player who plays better when teaming up with MeBron. I can't.   
    Posted by videoburns[/QUOTE]
    Anderson Varejao, Boobie Gibson, Z, Moe Williams, JJ Hickson and many others played better with Lebron. From what I can see, it seems only a handful of players have regressed playing with Lebron. Bosh, Miller, Arroyo amongst them. I watched the Heat play the Trailblazers last night and I see no slippage in DWades game 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Waynestarr. Show Waynestarr's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    I think we're overreacting about the "Tragedy" of LeBron James. In my opinion, all LeBron needs to work on is developing a CONSISTENT outside shot. He's a good defender, great passer, and has good court vision.

    Most people that criticize LeBron wanted him on their squads, INCLUDING the Celtics.

    Keep it real folks!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    When they all got together, they all said they would sacrifice stats for the team.  Now they are struggling and we've heard DWade and Bosh speak out in the last two weeks about being unhappy with their roles.  We haven't heard that from MeBron.............wonder why that is?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    the guy is an incredible talent, thats for sure. We shall see if he's at a cross-roads where he learns to elevate others around him. I just don't see the heat having the talent from top to bottom to win it all. I really believe that he should have stayed at cleveland. They were working at building that team around him, eventually they would get it right. In Miami they thought that getting Bosh as their big, would be another KJ clone, but obviously they missed badly on that one. Wade is a good Ray clone, and Lebrains is a good PP clone. But their bench is no where at the level of ours. Of course the defensive intensity is another story as well. I think some one said it already, "this ain't AAU ball anymore."
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The Tragedy of King James : Anderson Varejao, Boobie Gibson, Z, Moe Williams, JJ Hickson and many others played better with Lebron. From what I can see, it seems only a handful of players have regressed playing with Lebron. Bosh, Miller, Arroyo amongst them. I watched the Heat play the Trailblazers last night and I see no slippage in DWades game 
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]


    Mo Williams    
    2 yrs before Cleveland-  assists 6.3 pg   points 17.2 pg  steals 1.25 

    2 years in cleveland  (with Mebron) assists 4.4    points 16. 7  steals .95

    Points AND assists AND steals  down hard to make a case he was better with Mebron... 


    Varejao   
    last 2 years w Mebron   rebounds 7.4,,  points   8.6    blocks .85

    This year                  rebounds  9.7   points   9.1   blocks 1.2


    rebounds AND POINTS AND blocks up after MeBron leaves  - hard to make case he is better with MeBron


    Those are the first two I checked    but I doubt they are exceptions to the rule.
    You check the rest....    I doubt that these two are and exception to the rule...   LeBron Diminishes his teammates.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Wade is an Allen clone and Lebron a PP clone ????
    bad analogy.  They may play the same position, but the similarity ends there.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Tragedy?
        these guys making gazzilions and you classify Lebum a tragedy?

    Yeah my heart is aching.....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]In Response to The Tragedy of King James : Anderson Varejao, Boobie Gibson, Z, Moe Williams, JJ Hickson and many others played better with Lebron. From what I can see, it seems only a handful of players have regressed playing with Lebron. Bosh, Miller, Arroyo amongst them. I watched the Heat play the Trailblazers last night and I see no slippage in DWades game 
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Just checked Wade...   his ppg hasn't dropped much but his career average assists pg is 6.4      it is 4.4 apg  after Mebron arrives.    not better    hmmm

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]Tragedy?     these guys making gazzilions and you classify Lebum a tragedy? Yeah my heart is aching.....
    Posted by CHEisCHE[/QUOTE]


    Hey I don't feel sorry for Hamlet either...   the tragedy is the squandered opportunity...   the unfulfilled potential.      I certainly don't feel sorry for MeBron.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James : Mo Williams     2 yrs before Cleveland-  assists 6.3 pg   points 17.2 pg  steals 1.25  2 years in cleveland  (with Mebron) assists 4.4    points 16. 7  steals .95 Points AND assists AND steals  down hard to make a case he was better with Mebron...  Varejao    last 2 years w Mebron   rebounds 7.4,,  points   8.6    blocks .85 This year                  rebounds  9.7   points   9.1   blocks 1.2 rebounds AND POINTS AND blocks up after MeBron leaves  - hard to make case he is better with MeBron Those are the first two I checked    but I doubt they are exceptions to the rule. You check the rest....    I doubt that these two are and exception to the rule...   LeBron Diminishes his teammates.
    Posted by videoburns[/QUOTE]
    Of course the statistics will change with or without Lebron on the team. Do ya think Moe Williams scores more on a team with or with out Lebron? Do ya think Moe Williams has the ball in his hands more often with or without Lebron on the team?
    Did you watch Varejao play the past couple of years? He was JNoah before JNoah was JNoah!
    Who cares about the stats? Watch the game and then tell me if they played better or not.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    If LeBron had a consistentl mid range jumper and he had confidence in it, I do think things would be quite different.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indiansbacker. Show Indiansbacker's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]If LeBron had a consistentl mid range jumper and he had confidence in it, I do think things would be quite different.
    Posted by BoylestonBB[/QUOTE]

    If LeBron and Wade played the pick and roll, they would be unstoppable!  Not even the Celtics could stop them!  Problem is, LeBron won't do it.  He has never set a pick for anyone in his life!  DIVA!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    I dont think the system on the HEat will work...it didnt in Cleve.

    That is, allow Lebron to dominate the ball.... everyone else stand in a corner and wait for a pass while he goes 1on1 or chucks 3.

    Even great shooters need to be in rythym. 

    Ray is constantly coming around screens, getting touches, dribbling a little, makin a few passes. Most of the Celtics are getting touches cause the ball moves..  A player needs this. Even Ray wouldnt be as good a shooter if he just stood behind the 3 point line and did nothing but wait for the defense to collapse so someone through him a pass to take an open shot.

    Everyone needs to be involved.. the ball cant be dominated 95% of the time but thats what Spols knuckled under to cause Lebron carries all the juice, not the coach.

    The real tragedy as I see it, is neither coach Lebron has had as a pro has the4 credentials and backing.. or maybe even balls to do whats right.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Are we all watching the same player? 
    = One-of-a-kind talent with point guard skills in a power forward's body.
    = Physique and blinding speed overpower opponents on drives and transitions.
    = Middling outside shot and free throw stroke are lone remaining weaknesses.
    The disappointing ending in Cleveland doesn't change the fact James churned out one of history's most dominant regular seasons. His 31.19 PER didn't quite match the 31.76 he chalked up a year earlier, but since 1973-74 he boasts two of the top six PER marks. The only player to top him is Michael Jordan, who owns the first, second, fourth and fifth positions.
    Of all the phenomenal stats he put up, this one is the most remarkable: James converted an incredible 71.2 percent of his attempts at the basket area. To fully appreciate this mark, consider that nobody since 2004 has sunk more than 70 percent of their shots in that area with at least 150 attempts. Now consider that James had had 601 attempts -- nearly eight a game. When he wasn't dunking, he was dishing -- he had a 5.83 pure point rating that was easily the best among non-point guards.
    The chink in the King's armor is that he's quite mortal if you can manage to keep him away from the basket. James hit only 39.1 percent of his 2-pointers that weren't at the rim, and that was a career high. Similarly, his other shooting numbers are mediocre: 33.3 percent on 3-pointers and 76.7 percent from the line. It's useful in end-of-shot-clock situations that he can get a jumper off any time he pleases, but the jumper is a liability earlier in the possession.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    I see no evidence that Lebron made Varajeo, Mo Williams, Hickson, etc. better.  He is a superstar who added enough to the team's ability to win games in Cleveland but to say those players were better I don't think is right.

    KG makes others better. To take Lebron from Cleveland and not add anything of course the team is going to do worse that is obvious.  He does not make players better however.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    The bottom line is this.....

    You humbled losses after losses...
    When humbled, they will find a way to adjust.
    The problem is, do they know what humble means?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tjwoods. Show tjwoods's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    Can't buy the premise. As said above: Cleveland did quite well last year and LeBron clearly made the other players better on that team. Look where they are without him.

    When you from powerhouse to poorhouse in one season look at the common denominator: King James.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: The Tragedy of King James

    In Response to Re: The Tragedy of King James:
    [QUOTE]I see no evidence that Lebron made Varajeo, Mo Williams, Hickson, etc. better.  He is a superstar who added enough to the team's ability to win games in Cleveland but to say those players were better I don't think is right. KG makes others better. To take Lebron from Cleveland and not add anything of course the team is going to do worse that is obvious.  He does not make players better however.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]
    other than the fact that you are a celtics fan what allows you to dispute the statement that Lebron made the Cavs players better but then state the same about KG?
    Lebron was constantly doubled in Cleveland leaving open looks for his team mates. Lebron repeatedly beat his man off of the dribble allowing for dump off easy baskets under the rim. Lebron was a rebound/fast break machine making every team mate to become a better transition player.

     

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