ULTIMATELY LJ>MJ, SPOELSTRA=PHIL JACKSON, WADE<PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!

    In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN! : What a complete idiot you are. "chief likewise would be even more highly regarded without both mchale and bird taking up all the spotlight " The Chief spent his first 4 years with GS without Bird & McHale and played well but never would have made HOF without those 2.  Parrish is highly regarded because of Bird& McHale etc.  In general, Id like to say you are one D F
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]thats my point. had the warriors had a deep pocket owner with the foresight to pay a red auerbach or create one and made chief the focal point and brought in mega-talent like a mchale, magic, dj, or bernard king specifically as his robin and got a coach who was down with all this, then yep parish had the skills to cash that check of high expectations in to a possible ring. parish could have easily been the alpha dog on a team that won it all. but just like bron, he had to pack his bags by trade, design, free agency or default. life is rigged like that sometimes.

    usually when you transfer into another man's territory, you have to be the beta to his alpha. bron had to lay low in the early part of the year for it was wade's team, but his game has clearly now transcended wade's in these last 2 series and continue to do so against the mavs and all of next year. his nickname is now lieutendent wade to LJ's general bron. he's prince wade to king james. you give lj the same shaw wade lucked into and they likely win 2 rings, not one. no dominant alpha shaq, no wade. that was shaq's team in 2006, no doubt about it. wade came for the ride. he knows the deal which is y he git in bron's lap to come to soouth beach. but wade's likeable so we all ignore facts for now. 

     
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    Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!

    In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN! : By the way D.F., what does your being a "brotha" have to do with anything?
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]i know what time it is. just wanted to demonstrate that i dont let anyone dictate to me what and whom i should be. walking around my neighborhood at the time (queens, NY) with a larry bird jersey esp on the hoop court, lets just say was not the most popular thing at the time even after i would rain down threes. same with taking shots at my boy russ or being a hall and oates superfan. i call it as i see it, sometimes its popular and mainstream sometimes not like with my views regarding michael Vick. cant please everybody. 

    oh yep kalr the lost one, since i cant judge bill russell for i was never there to see him play, i will likewise withhold judgments on jesus, muhammed, buddha, george washington and red grange! unless someone breathing right now was actually to see the water turned to wine, they should refrain from all conclusions and NOT call themselves christians, right? 

    and stop with the personal attacks DF. we are having a sporting debate not focusing on war and peace. this is a diversion for me as i work and hang out as i'm sure it is for you and most of the good folks who offer their opinions here whether i agree or am part of the contrarian brigrade!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    Take Jordan freom any of those BULLS teams and they go no where.  Pippen in Portland didnt do anything.....Pipen is Bosh.  kukoc, Grant, Paxson, BJ, and all the rest of the cast during the 6 championships don't come close to Wade combined!!!!  Rodman=no offense and aerage on defense.  

    LBJ and MJ comparison is ludicris. Right now Robert Horry is better than LBJ.  LOL.. Honestly, LBJ needs to win a few rings to even surpass Hakeem.

    When did LBJ play center in the playoffs?  What he may can do and actually doing it is two different things!!!

    I don't get why make the thread if your a MJ guy and knows he is better!!! 

    Silliest post ever on BDC.  Let's get back to Celtics talk.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    Wow, much hate going on here. One Cs fan has a different opinion about two great players (both not even being Boston players) than another and suddenly it is ok to insult each other, great.

    For me it is quite clear:
    1. I really dislike James more than anyone including Kobe in the league.
    2. James has a freakish talent and certainly has the cabability to become as great as or greater than Jordan.
    3. If he once will be considered with a legacy like MJ has to be seen. He has to become his head straight first.
    4. Pippen actually said the same IMO. He has not said that LJ is (or will be) better than MJ. But James has the potential to be on that level one day.
    5. MJ legacy is not only built on his physical game, but he was also able to adjust his style when getting older. If James is able to do that remains to be seen.
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Take Jordan freom any of those BULLS teams and they go no where. ... Pipen is Bosh ...  Rodman=no offense and aerage on defense...   Right now Robert Horry is better than LBJ. Posted by jdm894g[/QUOTE]
    Well, I`m sorry, that is nonsense.
    The Bulls without Jordan were still contenders (which has been posted here several times). If they gave Pippen an legit replacement (can you name the guy who played SG after MJ left?), not in MJ class' but an all star type player, they might have won a title.
    Bosh? Not so much. If you want to compare Bosh to a Bulls player of that time, I would compare him to Kukoc.
    And calling Rodman average at defense is just crazy. Horry in is prime was not better than James in his rookie season (And I like Horry much more than James).
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES! : Well, I`m sorry, that is nonsense. The Bulls without Jordan were still contenders (which has been posted here several times). If they gave Pippen an legit replacement (can you name the guy who played SG after MJ left?), not in MJ class' but an all star type player, they might have won a title. Bosh? Not so much. If you want to compare Bosh to a Bulls player of that time, I would compare him to Kukoc. And calling Rodman average at defense is just crazy. Horry in is prime was not better than James in his rookie season (And I like Horry much more than James).
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    Im on board with you about Rodman and defense. He was a monster defensive player.  He was physically so much stronger than he appeared and tough as nails to move defending the post.  Plus he always had a few tricks up his sleeve to mess with his opponents head... 

    Regarding Horry, I think that poster was just joking cause Horry has so many rings and Lebron doesnt. Of course, Horry was a big time clutch shooter in the playoffs...which is where Lebron cant touch him.. other than that, its not even worth the comparison...Lebron on another planet,  Horry cant touch him
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Wow, much hate going on here. One Cs fan has a different opinion about two great players (both not even being Boston players) than another and suddenly it is ok to insult each other, great. For me it is quite clear: 1. I really dislike James more than anyone including Kobe in the league. 2. James has a freakish talent and certainly has the cabability to become as great as or greater than Jordan. 3. If he once will be considered with a legacy like MJ has to be seen. He has to become his head straight first. 4. Pippen actually said the same IMO. He has not said that LJ is (or will be) better than MJ. But James has the potential to be on that level one day. 5. MJ legacy is not only built on his physical game, but he was also able to adjust his style when getting older. If James is able to do that remains to be seen.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    I think the point is we can include lots of players in the discussion regarding who could be as good as MJ when their career is over.   Thats pretty much where everyone jumped on the Lebron bandwaagon for years.  

    HEs always been discussed as "potentially" the greatest ever...Anytime he does something notable, the bandwagoners come out of the woodwork.  Now Lebron made it to the finals....here we go again, talking about him like hes going after title #5...

    Now Scottie comes out and displays his jealousy for MJ... I think Pippen thinks he doesnt get enough credit for the Bulls title runs... Listen Scottie, you started out as a weak player...SOFT is what I recall always being in the same sentence when your name came up... Well, that changed for you, you did get much tougher and I think you have MJ to thank for that. You won a mess of titles too, again you have MJ to thank for that.  When MJ took a 2 yr break and you became the bigdog, zero titles..... Then MJ returned for 3 more years and guess what...3 more titles.

    Scottie, youre the second banana and no matter how hard you try, thats all youre gonna be when the subject of the Bulls titles comes up.
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES! : When MJ took a 2 yr break and you became the bigdog, zero titles..... Then MJ returned for 3 more years and guess what...3 more titles. Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]
    I enjoy a lot of your posts, but this argument is more than weak.
    If you take one of the best (in this case THE best) player out of a championship team with NO replacement this team is not going to win a ring, simple. That doesn't mean the other guys are a bunch of losers. Example: Without KG Boston couldn't make it to the finals either. What does that say about Ray and Pierce in your opinion?
    If the Bulls would have traded Jordan for another legit player in e.g. Drexler and the Bulls would have won nothing you might have had a case. Now, you haven't!
    Actually the Pippen led Bulls without Jordan had as much success as the Jordan led Bulls without Pippen, just saying (and NO I`m not saying Pippen is bigger than Jordan).
    Also, I cannot see the hate from Pippen you mention in your post. Actually Pippen is right IMO. James has all the tools to become one of the greatest of all time. But: Penny Hardayway could have been the next Magic as well. What exactly is his legacy now?
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    When MJ or Lebron win a championship as a player coach get back to me. When they win 9 rings get back to me. MJ had more help by the refs than any player in any sport at any time. NBA was turned into the WWE by Stern 3 of MJ rings were outright fixed. I  made a boatload of $$$ of him but MJ had his own set of rules and in my eyes will always hurt his legacy. MJ was a great player but hey if anyone played d on him it was foul or when their is no such thing as an offensive foul, I could still go out and rack 30 pts and thats after4 knee ops,3 ankle ops and arthritis. It was a joke. The best ever was Russell. The modern day gerbils on crack or sportscasters/commentators as they prefer have to rabble this drivel because of the 24/7/365 megahype. MJs success was as much of Sterns man love for him as skill. Lebron has yet to win a ring. Bill won 9, one as a player coach. Scoreboard.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from renecito713. Show renecito713's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    Watched MJ from his first game at UNC? 
    Liar.

    Mr. bron? 
    Stupid.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES! : I enjoy a lot of your posts, but this argument is more than weak. If you take one of the best (in this case THE best) player out of a championship team with NO replacement this team is not going to win a ring, simple. That doesn't mean the other guys are a bunch of losers. Example: Without KG Boston couldn't make it to the finals either. What does that say about Ray and Pierce in your opinion? If the Bulls would have traded Jordan for another legit player in e.g. Drexler and the Bulls would have won nothing you might have had a case. Now, you haven't! Actually the Pippen led Bulls without Jordan had as much success as the Jordan led Bulls without Pippen, just saying (and NO I`m not saying Pippen is bigger than Jordan). Also, I cannot see the hate from Pippen you mention in your post. Actually Pippen is right IMO. James has all the tools to become one of the greatest of all time. But: Penny Hardayway could have been the next Magic as well. What exactly is his legacy now?
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, Lebron has all the tools but so have many others.... point being you can tag alot of players past & present with  they could be the greatest... it means nothing.  Its one thing to compare when theyve achieved enough to warrant the comparison... not when they've made maybe only a small dent.

    As far as analyzing Pippen without Jordan... you feeling is unfair cause thiose years were minus the greatest player...so what could anyone expect.. I agree with that... but the point being had Pippen won a title then, hed be in the conversation.... the fact he didnt, for whatever reason, makes him another one of those players that maybe coulda, woulda, shoulda...  thats not enough to bridge the gap.

    Theres a million ways to slice this but the bottom line is MJ is the one who delivered the goods... He was unquestionably the man when the Bulls won 6 title in 8 years..  Theres no qustion w/o Jordan, Scottie couldnt bring the BUlls a title... Theres no proof that w/o Pippen, Jordan couldnt win a title with those Bulls teams


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Wow, much hate going on here. One Cs fan has a different opinion about two great players (both not even being Boston players) than another and suddenly it is ok to insult each other, great. For me it is quite clear: 1. I really dislike James more than anyone including Kobe in the league. 2. James has a freakish talent and certainly has the cabability to become as great as or greater than Jordan. 3. If he once will be considered with a legacy like MJ has to be seen. He has to become his head straight first. 4. Pippen actually said the same IMO. He has not said that LJ is (or will be) better than MJ. But James has the potential to be on that level one day. 5. MJ legacy is not only built on his physical game, but he was also able to adjust his style when getting older. If James is able to do that remains to be seen.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]now this more of how we should discourse around here. we dont have to agree. thats the point of starting the threas. everyone has an opinion, lets get it out respectfully. i disagree with your conclusions, doesnt mean you are a worthless moron or scum. no akin off my back. i'm not bron's agent, father, brother or delonte. #4 is on the money, i dont know y all these guys dont get what i am saying. penny hardaway and grant hill were once also on that trajectory. a lot of things can happen on the potential roaD to greatness which is y u respect a jordan for actually getting there despite the serious injury in year 2, age, deaths and illness of close relationships, adultery and wife issues, lockerroom and management conflicts, etc. 

    #5 makes perfect sense. again, i never saw the other guys as ever being better than jordan even in potential due mostly with body type. bron has the kind of body that can endure and adapt as did magic johnson. he went from the point to playing power forward and even center in his last incarnation. as bron ages, the possibilities of what he could add to his game are limitless. he could play more at the 4 with some nifty post moves and a mid-range turnaround j in the mode of jordan or become better at the catch and shoot game in the mode of ray allen or reggie miller and step out more in range at the 2. 

    at the 3, he could incorporate more of a alll-perimeter stop and pop game as did dr. j at the end. i think bron has the body, mind and skillset that will alllow him to make a lot of adjustments while still getting the job done as he ages. also, by not having the ultra-ego of jordan, when the time comes he will have far less of an issue in playing the second banana as he did earlier this year if it means winning (or even third wheel). had mj done that in washington perhaps that team would have been better of f in the long and short runs. per example, he traded away rip hamilton for a more acquiescing jerry stackhouse when he should have been playing second fiddle or jobbing to rip at the time as his game was very clearly on the rise esp in comparison to jordan a t the time.

    #3, i agree. i started the thread for i believe he can. if you know much about bron's personality and dynamics off the court, making adjustments and keeping his head straight will not be an issue. barring injury or the legal system (rape or gambling accusation), there's nothing and no one that could derail this guy. 

    with scottie pippen, no way mj wins without him as he couldnt win with out mj. as a poster accurately stated, without each other they both pretty much reached the same heights. if anything, it was tougher for scottie for he had to endure the mj taunts and chants everyday and he never got a clyde drexler in exchange for mj. for how close and great he hot without mj, i think he could have won it all with about 10 other guys atthe time. the 2 of them together like HALL & OATES BROUGHT THE MAGIC. YES, MJ Was hall and pip was oates. you need that on a team, pip sacrificed a lot of individual greatness and glory just as dwayne wade will and has. 

    speaking of which, you think pip with shaq would not have won like 4 rings? give me a break. wade without shaq and on his own like last year couldnt clean pip's shoes. pip got to the conference finals with a bullet. when has wade led a team anywhere without another bonafide hall of famer? give me a break with this weak kool-aid. i lke and respect mr. wade but he's no PIPPEN. for the poster comparing kukoc with bosh, right on man. as i've said, mj had a far superior supporting cast. he chose not to use them as much as a bron would, but they were there in other areas. rodman is both a top 5 defender and rebounder in league history as well as in running the break and in agitation to the other team and keeping his team just a bit edgy enough to keep winning. who are we kidding, bron's cast is no where even close!



     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    It goes a little something like this......

    !. Micheal Jordan












    2. Kobe Bryant


































    3. It aint James and never will James!!!


    Really?  LBJ, a guy who doesnt have a ring!!!!!  Really?    To be honest, if its about "rings", Bill Russell and a lot of other Celtics sets the GOLD STANDARD!!!!!  

    Let's take Kobe Bryant and players in his era.  No hand checking so they can waltz right to the basket.  Jordan faced the tough teams like the Bird's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, and Ewing's Knicks.  If Kobe was around back then I doubt he would have as many rings because the rules were different.
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Take Jordan freom any of those BULLS teams and they go no where.  Pippen in Portland didnt do anything.....Pipen is Bosh.  kukoc, Grant, Paxson, BJ, and all the rest of the cast during the 6 championships don't come close to Wade combined!!!!  Rodman=no offense and aerage on defense.   LBJ and MJ comparison is ludicris. Right now Robert Horry is better than LBJ.  LOL.. Honestly, LBJ needs to win a few rings to even surpass Hakeem. When did LBJ play center in the playoffs?  What he may can do and actually doing it is two different things!!! I don't get why make the thread if your a MJ guy and knows he is better!!!  Silliest post ever on BDC.  Let's get back to Celtics talk.  
    Posted by jdm894g[/QUOTE] I don't get why make the thread if your a MJ guy and knows he is better!!! 

    thats because i like challenging myself and going outside may little emotional box. as i said i was living and going to school in UNC (age 12) when jordan came to the fore. i remember the media going nuts when he was committed prior to his senior year which was very unusual to say the least at the time. he also was the first freshman to ever be guaranteed a starting spot by dean smith. his senior high school games were mega-events, kind of like bron. i remember watching the newscasts LEADING with his dunks and highlights towards the end of his high school run. my dad (god rest his soul) was not sold on him and kept saying i'm not sure about this jordan guy, way too much hype, a bi too much too soon kid of thing with question marks with his jumper and his body. 

    as then , like now.. if a board like this was around, way before his first game i w ould have been buying that stock with a thread something like this: MJ  WILL END UP GREATER THAN WALTER DAVIS +DOCTOR J! then the karlosts would have been all over me as some of my classmates at the time who said "let him win a game first", let him prove he can make a shot bla bla. but some things are obvious i guess from the start, way before the bandwagon which took off after the magical shot versus ewing and georgetown. for the delusional, even then mj had one of the greatest "supporting cast" ever assembled. in fact he was the supporting cast of some guy named james worthy as well as the big smooth sam perkins and even jimmy black (the best point guard i ever saw who never made it to the show/nba). 

    oh i forgot, magic had to build his team from scratch and is admirable that he never tried to form a big 3 with a bird. you numbskulls, it was easy to see back then that worthy would be a dominant nba player. y would magic want to leave all that along with kareem? that was a BIG 3. heck, add in a byron scott/byron scott or jamaal wiles and you had a big 4! they all were independently great before they ran into magic and all may have been even greater (at least their legacies) without him hogging all the spotlight and credit.

    sometimes i am right, sometimes wrong as with shaq. so far with greatness, i'm 5 for 5: jordan, ewing (felt he could adapt his game into being a great pro, my brother's all-time fave), terry gannon (was at nc state, could shoot it from the ocean.. the first guy i tried to emulate, i couldnt do anything mj did so i settled for this dude, said he would eventually be a COLLEGE starter from his rook camp and "great" within his own context of shooting), chris mullin (was in NY to follow his college career and see him get it on with those great syracuse teams, felt his game would transfer well to the nba agianst heavy resistance from my bros who thought he was just overrated and overhyped due to the pigment issue; actually even better than i had assumed but felt that without the box and one cage everyone played, he would be free to show off his game), paul pierce (was buying that stock very early, saw him almost beat vince carter in the college slam dunk contest, always liked his intensity, so sad with hank gathers, len bias and reggie lewis for had them pretty high in the cant-miss pool). now lebron!
     
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    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    Two things separate the Queen from the others you mention: intelligence and the ability to step up in the clutch.  He readily has admitted to not being too smart, even once getting himself so confused that he whined, "I didn't go to college".  Well, one has to reach certain minimal standards to gain admittance to most colleges (doesn't include KY, especially, in that group)n - there's no proof that he had the chops for academics.  But aside from that type of intellect there's bb IQ and he's never been accused of out thinking an opponent or having decent court awareness except when he could look above the defense - just compare him to Rondo, Paul, or Nash or even more aptly, Larry Bird or Julius Erving in this regard.  The second failure in this comparison is what many have noted, the guts to finish when it counts, whether at the line or in the larger sense by staying focused.  He's a quitter, one who has never understood the value of seeing something through to the end no matter what the outcome.  Jordan had so much more fire and desire than this crybaby it stops any comparison immediately except to highlight MJ's qualities over the Queen.  I fully admit that I'm biased; I don't like seeing someone get away with so much without proper calls being made.  He can't make a move without changing pivot feet, traveling (at the beginning or end of his run), committing almost predictable offensive fouls, and then there's the crying after he does get called for something.  Someone wrote, and I can't remember where this spring, about the lack of foul calls against him vs. every other "star" player and the difference was astounding.  He goes many successive game with no foul calls at all! None. Anyone else that has the ball in his hands or plays even a modicum of defense is bound to get between one or two a game, but the Queen averages fewer than anyone in the history of the NBA.  That's indicative of protection and favoritism of the first order and one that Jordan and every other player doesn't or didn't enjoy.  I believe PP suffers the exact opposite treatment and usually can't get a call while getting hammered. 

    James is a large, sometimes awkward, man who can sometimes hit a jump shot but can always bull his way to a lay-up or the line because he knows he'll get the call, so why not just knock over anyone who has position?  I have never seen him move with the grace that other athletes do, but I have seen him build up a head of steam and crash into anyone in his way.  Can he not subtly change direction, even 3/4"?  Not much athleticism there, despite the hype.  

    He's Anthony Mason (Sr.) with a jump shot, but can't play with the intensity, especially the defensive intensity, that Mason did.  Take away his signature "crab dribble", the travels, and award him the appropriate offensive fouls, and he'd be a crying mess on the end of the bench by the middle of the second quarter.  Somehow I can't imagine Michael Jordan in the same light.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bahstunguy. Show bahstunguy's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:

    How you can compare Bill Russell, THE GREATEST player that ever played in the NBA, to to either BOSH,WADE or Hall and Oates shows just how limited your NBA
    brainwave activity really is.

    Bill Russell has 11 Championship rings AS A PLAYER.  9 of them IN A ROW  !!

    Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you but the last time that I checked it was
    the yardstick of the ulimate great team player.

    Where will Lebron be in 10-11 years from now ?   Probably sitting in a bar in Miami
    telling all of the other patrons about how good he was.





    [QUOTE]i have joined the bron bandwagon. the man is a beast. i watched mr. jordan from his very first game at unc (i was living in nc at the time), all through his peak at the bulls and even through his years with the mighty wizards. i believe mr. bron purely on skillset is now SUPERIOR to jordan! this is not to say that he is the better player. to achieve that status, mr. james will have to actually compete in the rings arena and pick up a few finals mvps along the way. kobe clearly will ne surpassed by the time bron is done with his career. may even be a joke for someone to compare the 2. would be like someone comparing dr. j with jordan. let me break it down for you esp in comparing lj at this point in the season to mj when he finally broke through for his first ring (focusing in their 7th year): clutchitude. MJ. small lead. the one area where jordan overwhelmingly had the edge. for most of this year bron was the pippen whereas wade assumed the role of mr. #2 pippen. from the celts series, bron has been the man. still going with mike but the gap is now very small. bron just has to shoot his free throws at a better clip to close the gap with the game on the line in the last 2 minutes or so. competitiveness. EVEN. again, esp after the way things ended for bron with our celtics last year, the gap was huge in mj's favor. today, its EVEN! noone has gone thru a year that bron has in terms of outright hatred from the fans and media. some were of his own doing, some werent. but the man has shown the resolve of the ultimate competitor. jordan never had to deal with being this hated or even generally hated. even his opponents all respected and loved him both on and off the court from day one.  defense. BRON. small lead. they have the same body types and basic tools in terms of foot speed and smarts but lj is 2 inches taller and weighs more by default. mj had quicker hands and was better at stealing the ball, bron is better at blocking shots and intimidating all layups even on breakaways just by his mere presence. just last night, i saw at least 5 blown layups caused by lj's presence. guys anticipate the block. bron is able to consistently guards 4 positions and more body types than mj could. lj could guard most centers as well if he had to. for the entire bulls series, bron held rose to a 6% field goal rate when he the man directly guarding him. thats phenomenal. i dont recall jordan ever doing that to an iverson or isiah. bron;s body makes it harder to pass around or shoot over. he can alter shots just by standing there as he did with rose on that final shot. he jumped but you get that point. those 2 inches count.  passing. BRON. not even close. jordan was no slouch. he once averaged 10 assists for the season. but bron is in  a different league. he actually can dominate a game with his passes in a magic johnson kind of way. noone ever said that about mj.  dribbling. EVEN. jordan could handle the rock and had his own versions of the crab-dribbles of lj. neither turned it over for the most part and could withstand the ball pressures of the best guys. REBOUNDING. BRON. not even close. as great as jordan was, again bron is in a different league. he dominates the board even when going at it against the garnetts or power forwards or the paul pierces.  POSITIONAL VERSATILITY. BRON. small lead. jordan could play the point, the 2 and the 3. he mostly played the 2  with pippen at the 3 and played some point towards the end of games or when they needed a big bucket. bron plays the same 3 positions plus the 4.  GAME VARIABILITY. MJ. small lead. bron clearly has more range including in the clutch. i dont remember mj ever taking the shots bron took and made versus the celts or against the bulls in the last 2 games with all the money on the table. lj can increasingly spot up for the 3 as well as shoot it off the dribble with awesome accuracy. mj had all the postup and fadeaway moves. loved to mix it up down low. bron is still evolving. both are great at attacking the hoop but bron gets more fouls off it whereas mj was more finesse in his approach. mj had a better midrange game.  LEADERSHIP. EVEN. again that wasa huge lead to mj as the season started but lj has become his equal in the past weeks and months. he has handled adversity and weathered the storm as a man. he has had the back of his coach and management, never threw anyone under the bus, and accepted responsibility. he has been a total diplomat in blending with bosh and wade and steadily rising up top to the big dog status. mj never really had to deal with anyone challenging his authority or big dog status. it was always his team. in terms of talent and egos, both have had to deal with the relative same level of talent. wasnt always the case for bron but right now his team is almost at the same level as any of the bulls ring teams. again, thats almost. bron has LESS to work with overall. the bulls contrary to myths, were always well-stacked from the coaching position to the depth on the bench. perhaps we should just focus on mj's first ring teamin 1991. mj had an edge for they had gone thru some wars together before finally breaking through. lj has had to do it from scratch in just the first year of the whole band coming together. lj has clearly had a bigger challenge in that cohesive and chemistry area.  OFFENSE. MJ. negligible. jordan clearly is the better free throw shooter so he got more free points. both guys never tire so they are constantly able to bring it. both are peerless in the open court or fast break. mj had more moves but bron has more range and is a foul magnet when he enters the lane. only one guy in the entire league (paul pierce) can come close to matching his body type, foot speed and tenaciousness on defense when guarding him. noone gets more easy points than bron. he is like a mini-shaq in getting his team in the bonus very quickly for even more easy points while making it harder for the other team to maintain its aggression as the game wears on. once he shoots free throws at over 80% and gets more comfortable with his post moves, lj will be mj's equal if not his superior on offense as well.  INTANGIBLES. JAMES. big time. lj is more than 2 years younger with less superstar teams to worry about than was the case with mj. in the east, just the celtics as presently constituted can pose a threat to the bron steamroll going forward. not sold on the knicks, hawks, sixers or bulls. none of them can counter the heat's immense strengths. in the west, the lakers and the memphis grizzlies with their emphasis on big athletic big men and of course kobe amd capable swingmen are the only teams that could stop the heat once they get to the finals. BOTTOM LINE:  assuming lj gets his ring and finals mvp this year, he will be well on his way to at least matching mj's 6 rings and finals mvps. this was supposed to be a warm-up year for the heat. next year they should be far better and cohesive. you will have every top role player wanting to head out to miami not only to play with the far less selfish bron (ask scottie pippen about mj's selfishnesss compared to bron) but to enjoy the tax-free benefits. when its  all said and done, jordan will be joined by lj on the mt. rushmore of nba. the next level down will have the likes of bill russell, chamberlain, hakeem, bird, magic, kareem, tim duncan, oscar robinson, wade, and kobe. at the third level, you will have the karl malones, pipppens, barkleys, isaiahs, garnetts, david robinson, dirk nowitski (as of now)and paul pierces. at the last level, you will have the ray allens, reggie millers, dominiques, bob mcadoos, allen iverson, and joe dumars.
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sev133. Show Sev133's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    mj never averaged 10 assists 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Lebron can't even dribble with traveling. He's way overrated.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    Dont even bother arguing with this comm cont...hes clueless and like someone slse posted, an attention who re...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!

    In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LEBRON'S SKILLS ARE SUPERIOR TO JORDAN'S, HE WILL ULTIMATELY BE GREATER! WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN! : i've just about had it with some of you lamebrains. you cant read, complain about things i'm clearly not sayin and despite 30 clarifications you're still too dumb to not stop running into the wall of idiocy! first of, i was never a big pippen fan. I'm more of an MJ guy. my best all-time player was LARRY BIRD and yeah i am a brotha as well. paul pierce as all of you who actually READ my words on this board is by far and away my fave player today not LEBRON.  unlike a lot of you i am able to take my head out of my homer sand castles and stop sipping the standard issued kool-aid and think objectively. i've NEVER really been a bron fan. however, right now, i give the man his props based on what i have seen, not read or heard from others. i find most experts dead wrong and full of hype and agendas. just as i have done on issues where i am clearly in the wrong, if it is proven that bron is still not up to the task or worthy of the pedestal i am reserving for him i will admit that. would any of you do the same if he is named finals mvp and he sweeps or dominates the mvvies? we'll see! you just keeep stewing like a bunch of little children.  of course bron isnt there yet, who said he was presently better overall than mj? i'm a pierce guy but lots of guys who have had far superior talent and skills have never amounted to a hill of beans. a giant will. killer instinct , dedication and leadership are things that count even more and cant be easily  quantified. pp has those in spades if not in actual freakish athleticism. as to the moron saying russell "could rebound and block shots better than mj" so lets crown him greater as well... all i can is you need help in reading and interpretation.  if russell at 6'11 also played the point and covered oscar robunson and guys like jerry west and so forth, you may have a point. russ was a center pure and simple. you still dont get this? bron and mike would have been going one on one, mano a mano had they played in the same era esp in the fourth quarter as he did in SHUTTING down mr. rose (6% on fgs when bron was in his zip code). would a scenario exist where russ is one on one on iso plays with mj or a bron or vice versa? give me a break.  finally in the dumbest retort i have ever heard, you karlost come back to the fact that since i actually did not see russ play i have no idea of what i am talking about. oh really? so y judge babe ruth, george washington or jesus? y should those born in the 90s ever have an opinion on jordan? y should those born 10 years from now ever have an opinion on bron? see how dumb and moronic you sound now? heck y limit it to just tv watching. you must actually be at the games. only those reporters who actually have acccess to the locker room can comment. r u kidding me with this nonsense? we must make the best of what we have and use our power of deduction. i have seen enoughof russ to know that had he enough been surrounded by an all-star hall of fame team that he would not have been as great. thats what i meant by my healthy perk comparison.  when you have 4 all-stars and great depth off the bench, a russ is luxury. he survived the injury bug, was black at the right time and able to stay around for a while so he's the greatest ever? give me a break. russ was and is the JOHN OATES of the nba. oates is the most renowned and highest paid backup singer in the history of music. bill russell is the most most glorified player of role player/backup-worthy skills in the history of sports and the nba. again, back to the perk thing. nothing wrong with that, i still hold him in respect and esteem but lets get a grip and some perspective! i am a huge hall and oates fan as i am with bill russell. like oates, russ was the ultimate team player, perhaps the greatest team player in history. oates wrote a lot of hits, participated as a songwriter and producer, colaborated with other artists, played like 50 instruments and still has one of the most soulful voices i have ever heard. but come on, daryl hall is the actual jordan of the group. without oates however there is no team holding together and hall aint shining as he did. no oates, no big glory for hall! no biggest selling duo in music history moniker or long lasting legacy. like russ, every major young guy today pays homage to hall and oates in terms of samples, guest appearances, tributes and shout-outs. russ always had more mainstream critic appeal but i see him in the same vain. the ultimate glue guy! tons of love.
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]
    Russ is a luxury? Ask his peers about that.His teammates say that he willed them to victory time after time.He changed the way post defense was played in the NBA.He continued to win after Sharman,Ramsey, Cousy and Satch were gone.You owe it to yourself to learn just a little bit about a subject before making breathtakingly stupid comments.Heinsohn has seen generations of NBA players and still idolizes Russ.Havlicek.Sam Jones and K.C. likewise.No doubt you have a better grasp of the game than they do.You remind vme of a child who goes around uttering nonsense to draw attention to herself.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES! : Dont even bother arguing with this comm cont...hes clueless and like someone slse posted, an attention who re...
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]
    It`s amazing that none of Russell`s contempoaries were able to achieve the bicyclist`s remarkable insights.She`s seen right through the hype--LOL--and the Hall and Oates analogy--sheer genius!@
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainMugford. Show CaptainMugford's posts

    LBJ MAY END UP NEARLY AS GOOD AS WADE; BOSH PIPPEN; I WISH I HAD BEEN ALIVE TO SEE BILL RUSSELL PLAY

    In Response to Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!:
    [QUOTE]Two things separate the Queen from the others you mention: intelligence and the ability to step up in the clutch.  He readily has admitted to not being too smart, even once getting himself so confused that he whined, "I didn't go to college".  Well, one has to reach certain minimal standards to gain admittance to most colleges (doesn't include KY, especially, in that group)n - there's no proof that he had the chops for academics.  But aside from that type of intellect there's bb IQ and he's never been accused of out thinking an opponent or having decent court awareness except when he could look above the defense - just compare him to Rondo, Paul, or Nash or even more aptly, Larry Bird or Julius Erving in this regard.  The second failure in this comparison is what many have noted, the guts to finish when it counts, whether at the line or in the larger sense by staying focused.   He's a quitter , one who has never understood the value of seeing something through to the end no matter what the outcome.  Jordan had so much more fire and desire than this crybaby it stops any comparison immediately except to highlight MJ's qualities over the Queen.  I fully admit that I'm biased; I don't like seeing someone get away with so much without proper calls being made.  He can't make a move without changing pivot feet, traveling (at the beginning or end of his run), committing almost predictable offensive fouls, and then there's the crying after he does get called for something.  Someone wrote, and I can't remember where this spring, about the lack of foul calls against him vs. every other "star" player and the difference was astounding.  He goes many successive game with no foul calls at all! None. Anyone else that has the ball in his hands or plays even a modicum of defense is bound to get between one or two a game, but the Queen averages fewer than anyone in the history of the NBA.  That's indicative of protection and favoritism of the first order and one that Jordan and every other player doesn't or didn't enjoy.  I believe PP suffers the exact opposite treatment and usually can't get a call while getting hammered.  James is a large, sometimes awkward, man who can sometimes hit a jump shot but can always bull his way to a lay-up or the line because he knows he'll get the call, so why not just knock over anyone who has position?  I have never seen him move with the grace that other athletes do, but I have seen him build up a head of steam and crash into anyone in his way.  Can he not subtly change direction, even 3/4"?  Not much athleticism there, despite the hype.   He's Anthony Mason (Sr.) with a jump shot, but can't play with the intensity, especially the defensive intensity, that Mason did.  Take away his signature "crab dribble", the travels, and award him the appropriate offensive fouls, and he'd be a crying mess on the end of the bench by the middle of the second quarter.  Somehow I can't imagine Michael Jordan in the same light.
    Posted by painter[/QUOTE]

    Best post I have ever read on these forums. LBJ may yet prove us wrong, but until a few impressive performances this postseason he has merely shown what extraordinary talent looks like when mixed with a complete lack of that je ne sais quoi that motivated Jordan, Bird, Magic, Russell, and precious few others.

    I would love to see a well-researched video comparison of LBJ's sweetheart ref treatment versus any star from pre-Jordan era.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAULICAS1975. Show PAULICAS1975's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    I look at it this way. MJ, Bird, Johnson WON Rings by themselves. L. James would never get a ring unless he got help. Which is why he went to Miami to see if he can get his. Just imagine if Bird, MJ, and Johnson got together for 2 maybe 4 years. How many would they win??
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from startrightnow. Show startrightnow's posts

    Re: LJ WILL END UP GREATER THAN MJ, WADE/BOSH =PIPPEN +BILL RUSSELL=JOHN OATES!

    I wonder if he knows people dont take him serious for threads like this. Obvious attention seeker , posting about a guy who said he couldnt do it on his own , a guy who wasnt won anything on his own. Fact is LJ wasnt that far away from reaching the finals and getting titles on his own , thats the sad part in all this. Now he'll NEVER EVER get any REAL credit because he chose to go play with the best , 2nd best all around player in the world. Then those two convinced Bosh to come , another top 15-20 guy. You cant help but laugh at people like this , seriously are you 14 y/o's? Have you even looked at MJ's stats ... ever? At 24 Jordan won the DPY award while also posting 35ppg 6ast 5.5trb 3.2stl 1.6blk. Just one of his amazing stat lines ... did i mention he's 6 for 6? Anyway , you love to talk up your boy as a better defender , let me remind you LJ has NEVER avg. more than 1.8 stl's per year , Jordan avg 2.3 for his career. And for a guy that is much bigger than MJ LJ only avg 1 more board per game. And again MJ is considered a top 3 d/p at his position all time! MJ played D when teams/players were actually allowed to play real D. Its absolutely amazing what gets past off as good D these days. I hear a lot of you people saying that RR is one of the best D player. Ive heard the samething about Perk , which couldnt be further from the truth. OKC was a better team with him on the bench , watch the games much?
     

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