w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from lovetruth007. Show lovetruth007's posts

    w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    Yes Cs got a win, the 13th in the streak. W/o Rondo, Shaq and KG did not have many alley-oops. Nate made bad pass turnovers and Paul made bad dribble turnovers. Bradley had to come in and missed both free-throws. Not a pretty one to watch. Thank God that Cs got a win.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]Yes Cs got a win, the 13th in the streak. W/o Rondo, Shaq and KG did not have many alley-oops. Nate made bad pass turnovers and Paul made bad dribble turnovers. Bradley had to come in and missed both free-throws. Not a pretty one to watch. Thank God that Cs got a win.
    Posted by lovetruth007[/QUOTE]

    Dude Paul had a triple double with only 3 to's.  Shooting was fantastic as well as he shut Danny Granger down completely.  What do you expect from him?  I don't want a bunch of alley oops this early anyway.  It increased the chance they get hurt.  Looked to me like Paul gave Shaq a highlight alley oop though.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]Yes Cs got a win, the 13th in the streak. W/o Rondo, Shaq and KG did not have many alley-oops. Nate made bad pass turnovers and Paul made bad dribble turnovers. Bradley had to come in and missed both free-throws. Not a pretty one to watch. Thank God that Cs got a win.
    Posted by lovetruth007[/QUOTE]

    With Rondo they have won 85% of their games, without Rondo they have won 83% of their games and the one loss was by 1 point otherwise they would be undefeated without Rondo.

    Cedric Maxwell said today leading up to the game "no offense to Rondo but with him Rondo tends to dominate the ball but without him the offense seems to be smoother and the ball movement is much better".... maybe that is because everyone on the floor is an option on the offense as opposed to just the other 4 guys.

    With a healthy D West the Cs would be saying Rond(wh)o......  give Bradley a complete healthy preseason with Doc and they would be glad that Rondo's contract is expiring in a few years and that they are paying a max of $13 million per year in his contract.

    If Jermaine O'Neal and West were healthy right now there would not be any discussion at all about how the Cs would be completely dominating teams.

    I am sure it is not even possible for most to remember the last 20 years when most of the teams that raise a trophy and banner had average at best point guards - 5 Lakers with an average point guard, 6 Bulls teams with averate poing guards, 4 Spurs titles with Parker as part of a couple of them.... the rest of those champs had average at best points other than the Pistons teams that beat the Lakers (and obtw that Pistons team had 4 all-stars).

    Given all of this - after the playoffs last year Doc was quoted saying that Rondo's inability to shoot really cost them in the playoffs.  I will take it one step further - Rondo's inability to shoot ensured that the Lakers were able to double team Ray, Pierce, and KG on many occasions and sag their defense into the lane minimizing the impact of the Lakers paint impact. 

    Rondo shot 26% from the line in the finals.......  let's give some reasonable attempt at reality - Rondo cost the Cs #18.... most of you would love to wax poetic about how Rondo is the engine, the quarterback, etc.  He cost them a championship, period.

    So w/o Rondo it is all a mess....... unless of course when Rondo is out they give up a lower shooting percentage to the opponent, the shoot the ball better, and they are 2 points away from being undefeated and of course their ball movement is much much much much better.....






     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess : Dude Paul had a triple double with only 3 to's.  Shooting was fantastic as well as he shut Danny Granger down completely.  What do you expect from him?  I don't want a bunch of alley oops this early anyway.  It increased the chance they get hurt.  Looked to me like Paul gave Shaq a highlight alley oop though.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    That alley-oop from Pierce to Shaq is called a Jeff Poster.

    HAHAHA!!!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    I surely like that spread floor that point forward CPP makes possible with RR out.

    5 on 5 certainly works to the C's advantage big time down the stretch with Pierce running the show.

    The scorers simply go to work and lil' Nate is lightnin' in a bottle blowing up defenses.

    Pud
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    kirk and Dudder....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!  Come on you guys I know you believe that deep down inside that Rondo is a better floor general than Nate.  nate serves a role on the team and is doing it well.  Rondo has taken and made big shots this season.  How quickly do you guys forget how he drove the lane or was it a tip in dunk over Chris Bosh? He scores when he needs to.  If he scores too much then the offense is not in sync.  For all of short comings the CELTICS are 22-4 and have a little breathing room in the east.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN. Show KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess : With Rondo they have won 85% of their games, without Rondo they have won 83% of their games and the one loss was by 1 point otherwise they would be undefeated without Rondo. Cedric Maxwell said today leading up to the game "no offense to Rondo but with him Rondo tends to dominate the ball but without him the offense seems to be smoother and the ball movement is much better".... maybe that is because everyone on the floor is an option on the offense as opposed to just the other 4 guys. With a healthy D West the Cs would be saying Rond(wh)o......  give Bradley a complete healthy preseason with Doc and they would be glad that Rondo's contract is expiring in a few years and that they are paying a max of $13 million per year in his contract. If Jermaine O'Neal and West were healthy right now there would not be any discussion at all about how the Cs would be completely dominating teams. I am sure it is not even possible for most to remember the last 20 years when most of the teams that raise a trophy and banner had average at best point guards - 5 Lakers with an average point guard, 6 Bulls teams with averate poing guards, 4 Spurs titles with Parker as part of a couple of them.... the rest of those champs had average at best points other than the Pistons teams that beat the Lakers (and obtw that Pistons team had 4 all-stars). Given all of this - after the playoffs last year Doc was quoted saying that Rondo's inability to shoot really cost them in the playoffs.  I will take it one step further - Rondo's inability to shoot ensured that the Lakers were able to double team Ray, Pierce, and KG on many occasions and sag their defense into the lane minimizing the impact of the Lakers paint impact.  Rondo shot 26% from the line in the finals.......  let's give some reasonable attempt at reality - Rondo cost the Cs #18.... most of you would love to wax poetic about how Rondo is the engine, the quarterback, etc.  He cost them a championship, period. So w/o Rondo it is all a mess....... unless of course when Rondo is out they give up a lower shooting percentage to the opponent, the shoot the ball better, and they are 2 points away from being undefeated and of course their ball movement is much much much much better.....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]i couldnt have said it better! i love rondo but he is like a running back who has to come out on short yardage or at the goal line. he is not the guy i want at the finish line..period! he is a  3 1/2 quarter PG at best. would rather have paul at the point forward in last 5 minutes of close games passing off to nate as the SG or to ray. kind of like what the bulls used to do with jordan or lakers with kobe or miami heat with lebron or wade now! 

    until rondont (shoot) can hit free throws at a 70 percent clip or can hit a consistent wide open jumper down the stretch, i dont want him out there...period! nate has played great defense. delonte can play out there also. either him or nate should be out there over rondont! 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess : Exactly. Now instead of losing leads in the fourth quarter. We are increasing them.
    Posted by Kirk6[/QUOTE]

    Yea we have really lost a lot of leads in the 4th quarter. 22-4   Did we actually lose leads in the 4 losses?  Man I am glad your not the coach.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    Im thinking KG & PP are the two guys we'd really struggle with if either were out of the lineup.

    Regarding Rondo, theres some validity to what some posters have said regarding 4th qtrs.. our offense has stalled out, almost always last season and some this season too. Doesnt matter about wins/losses so much, just that comfortable leads become coin tosses.  I believe one of those reasons had been teams leaving Rondo to dbl team.. Lets face it, we've seen Rondo pass up clean layups so its a no brainer he passes up open jumpers and the clock winds down...

    Knowing Rondo hasnt attempted a FT since Dec 1 (I believe) is also telling.

    With Nate in the lineup, teams have to play honest defense when in 1/2 court and that frees up all our players. Plus Rondo wont drive (passes up layups anyway) cause hes afraid to be put on the FT line. They will hack him and he knows it

    Rondo is very valuable to the Celtics but I dont see the issue with the arguments put forth about 4th qtrs... its been a problem

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]Im thinking KG & PP are the two guys we'd really struggle with if either were out of the lineup. Regarding Rondo, theres some validity to what some posters have said regarding 4th qtrs.. our offense has stalled out, almost always last season and some this season too. Doesnt matter about wins/losses so much, just that comfortable leads become coin tosses.  I believe one of those reasons had been teams leaving Rondo to dbl team.. Lets face it, we've seen Rondo pass up clean layups so its a no brainer he passes up open jumpers and the clock winds down... Knowing Rondo hasnt attempted a FT since Dec 1 (I believe) is also telling. With Nate in the lineup, teams have to play honest defense when in 1/2 court and that frees up all our players. Plus Rondo wont drive (passes up layups anyway) cause hes afraid to be put on the FT line. They will hack him and he knows it Rondo is very valuable to the Celtics but I dont see the issue with the arguments put forth about 4th qtrs... its been a problem
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    I think your right about PP and KG.  I can agree with your pts on Rondo also but in the NBA every team gives up leads nearly every game.  I watch a lot of other games so I am not making that up.  The key is we still win. I like Nate playing but we lose some speed with Nate but we gain some shooting which is great.  I am not opposed to trading Rondo for the right pieces. Straight up we would need to get a really good guard, but if we could get a average PG as well as someone like Wallace, then we are improving our team. Doc has shown he is going to remove Rondo at crunch time so we are going to have to live with Rondo and his problems unless we trade him.  Not a bad problem though.  He does a lot of good things.  All players have problems and warts.  For some reason we focus on those instead of the good things. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from teh-n00b. Show teh-n00b's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    why does every thread have to turn into an argument about rondo?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]why does every thread have to turn into an argument about rondo?
    Posted by teh-n00b[/QUOTE]

    the title of the thread includes "w/o Rondo, it is all mess"......  there are some of us who vehemently disagree with that and find the degree to which Rondo is overrated cannot be overstated.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    This is not a "lets trade Rondo" thread... but it is interesting to discuss putting Rondo's contribution to the team, his warts and his strengths, into perspective.

    And that is hard to do when he is playing. Subtract him from the equation and we maybe can begin to see the forest for the trees.

    W/O Rondo, IMHO, the offense is a lot more consistent, particularly without the wild swings that occur when the game shifts from first half open court to crunch time half court play... and leadership changes.

     And the C's have a years long tradition of losing big leads when that shift occurs.  

    One theory is that Rondo loses his aggressiveness in the half court game as defenses collapse into the paint, dare him to shoot and the Celtic offense stagnates having to go 4 on 5.

    There are also competing theories... like the C's stop running because the old timers get tired and can't keep up with young Rondo.

    Pud
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    I don't want to trade Rondo but can we trade Dudder and Pudinhead?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]I don't want to trade Rondo but can we trade Dudder and Pudinhead?
    Posted by gtown07[/QUOTE]

    for Darko
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    D West is the best point guard we have.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from videoburns. Show videoburns's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    ...  the degree to which Rondo is overrated cannot be overstated.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]


    here, thedudder's version of "Fair and Balanced":  "...  the degree to which Rondo is overrated cannot be overstated."   Kinda  makes Fox News seem unbiased, reasonable and well founded by comparison.    
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]I don't want to trade Rondo but can we trade Dudder and Pudinhead?
    Posted by gtown07[/QUOTE]

    Jeeez... lets see. If traded I would ask to be sent to a team whose starting PG doesn't visibly tremble at the thoughts of taking a wide open 12 footer with the game on the line.

    Hmmmmmm... that pretty well narrows it down, doesn't it? Gonna be tough to find such gutsy, ice water in his veins PG play at this level! 

    Okay how about any one of the following teams if we can make the salary cap numbers work:

    Blazers
    Bobcats
    Bucks
    Bulls
    Cavaliers
    Clippers
    Grizzlies
    Hawks
    Heat
    Hornets
    Jazz
    Kings
    Knicks
    Lakers
    Magic
    Mavericks
    Nets
    Nuggets
    Pacers
    Pistons
    Raptors
    Rockets
    76ers
    Spurs
    Suns
    Thunder
    Timberwolves
    Warriors
    Wizards 
     

    Pud
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from gtown07. Show gtown07's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess : Jeeez... lets see. If traded I would ask to be sent to a team whose starting PG doesn't visibly tremble at the thoughts of taking a wide open 12 footer with the game on the line. Hmmmmmm... that pretty well narrows it down, doesn't it? Gonna be tough to find such gutsy, ice water in his veins PG play at this level!  Okay how about any one of the following teams if we can make the salary cap numbers work: Blazers Bobcats Bucks Bulls Cavaliers Clippers Grizzlies Hawks Heat Hornets Jazz Kings Knicks Lakers Magic Mavericks Nets Nuggets Pacers Pistons Raptors Rockets 76ers Spurs Suns Thunder Timberwolves Warriors Wizards    Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    Done...you are traded. No biggy eh? Since you aren't really a diehard Celtic fan anyway.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Shaq, nothing is easy. w/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]D West is the best point guard we have.
    Posted by maryngary[/QUOTE]


    I'm going to assume you were joking.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess : With Rondo they have won 85% of their games, without Rondo they have won 83% of their games and the one loss was by 1 point otherwise they would be undefeated without Rondo. Cedric Maxwell said today leading up to the game "no offense to Rondo but with him Rondo tends to dominate the ball but without him the offense seems to be smoother and the ball movement is much better".... maybe that is because everyone on the floor is an option on the offense as opposed to just the other 4 guys. With a healthy D West the Cs would be saying Rond(wh)o......  give Bradley a complete healthy preseason with Doc and they would be glad that Rondo's contract is expiring in a few years and that they are paying a max of $13 million per year in his contract. If Jermaine O'Neal and West were healthy right now there would not be any discussion at all about how the Cs would be completely dominating teams. I am sure it is not even possible for most to remember the last 20 years when most of the teams that raise a trophy and banner had average at best point guards - 5 Lakers with an average point guard, 6 Bulls teams with averate poing guards, 4 Spurs titles with Parker as part of a couple of them.... the rest of those champs had average at best points other than the Pistons teams that beat the Lakers (and obtw that Pistons team had 4 all-stars). Given all of this - after the playoffs last year Doc was quoted saying that Rondo's inability to shoot really cost them in the playoffs.  I will take it one step further - Rondo's inability to shoot ensured that the Lakers were able to double team Ray, Pierce, and KG on many occasions and sag their defense into the lane minimizing the impact of the Lakers paint impact.  Rondo shot 26% from the line in the finals.......  let's give some reasonable attempt at reality - Rondo cost the Cs #18.... most of you would love to wax poetic about how Rondo is the engine, the quarterback, etc.  He cost them a championship, period. So w/o Rondo it is all a mess....... unless of course when Rondo is out they give up a lower shooting percentage to the opponent, the shoot the ball better, and they are 2 points away from being undefeated and of course their ball movement is much much much much better.....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    The Celtics don't make it past Cleveland without Rondo last year. So while the Lakers exploited some of his weaknesse, blaming him for the loss is silly. It's like saying Denver wouldn't have lost 3 super bowls without Elway playing poorly in them. Uhh, No. They wouldn't have played in those super bowls without Elway. Rondo is a young player, their are parts of his game he still needs to improve, but he is a top 5 point guard.

    That said,  I want to see him start shooting layups. If he get's fouled, look at it as practice time. If nothing else he is getting the other team in the penalty. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess : The Celtics don't make it past Cleveland without Rondo last year. So while the Lakers exploited some of his weaknesse, blaming him for the loss is silly. It's like saying Denver wouldn't have lost 3 super bowls without Elway playing poorly in them. Uhh, No. They wouldn't have played in those super bowls without Elway. Rondo is a young player, their are parts of his game he still needs to improve, but he is a top 5 point guard. That said,  I want to see him start shooting layups. If he get's fouled, look at it as practice time. If nothing else he is getting the other team in the penalty. 
    Posted by jtkl[/QUOTE]

    Five years in the league... you say he is a top tier NBA PG and you are having to explain to him the need to shoot lay ups and get to the FT line?

    Hmmmmm. Sounds like you're coaching a not-terribly-bright HighSchool JV PG who doesn't understand the game.

    Pud
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess

    In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: w/o Sahq, nothing is easy. W/o Rondo, it is all mess : The Celtics don't make it past Cleveland without Rondo last year. So while the Lakers exploited some of his weaknesse, blaming him for the loss is silly. It's like saying Denver wouldn't have lost 3 super bowls without Elway playing poorly in them. Uhh, No. They wouldn't have played in those super bowls without Elway. Rondo is a young player, their are parts of his game he still needs to improve, but he is a top 5 point guard. That said,  I want to see him start shooting layups. If he get's fouled, look at it as practice time. If nothing else he is getting the other team in the penalty. 
    Posted by jtkl[/QUOTE]
    The point guard = quarterback analogy is not really accurate. Quarterbacks are the key player, by far, in pro football. Point guards are not the Key Player in basketball. In recent modern basketball it's usually been the 2/3 a la Kobe, LeBron, CPP, DWade; and in older school basketabll it was the center. There are exceptions for sure, but in football, it is almost always the QB that makes or breaks a team's chances, while in basketball it seldom is the point guard.
    That said, I like Rondo a lot, but think the coaching staff has been far too hands off on him (he ain't no vetrin), given him to much rope and he's got caught up in it with what appears to be a bit of a free throw shooting phobia.
    I think he has to shoot from outside a bit more to help space the floor in 1/2 court sets, and from what I can tell has a pretty good shot. I think Danny has kind of laid down the law whereas Doc wasn't able/willing to do so. Let's see how things go in the next few weeks, ex-Rondo; so far, they look OK. I'm hoping Rondo gets a wakeup call and starts to shoot, and take layups and if need be see a sports shrink if he's afraid of goint to the line.
     

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