Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/rosen/where-do-kobe-and-lebron-rank-among-the-all-time-greats

    This article is very accurate. It doesn't compare them to the top centers but compares them to other guards and forwards.

    The only ones they listed ahead of Kobe and Lebron were Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan. Even Larry Bird (rightfully so) is ranked below them.

    Here is the final sentence in the Larry Bird comparison:

    Yet Bird’s lack of the incredible athleticism exhibited by Kobe and LeBron make him another also-ran.



    Bird was light years ahead of Kobe.  A better athlete yes a better player never.  IQ was made Larry better than the ball hog with the low shooting percentage.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    Lebron's Heat vs. Jordan's Bulls.....  Jordan's Bulls win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Bird's Celtics.... Bird's Celtics win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Magic's Lakers.... Magic's Lakers win.

     

     

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/rosen/where-do-kobe-and-lebron-rank-among-the-all-time-greats

    This article is very accurate. It doesn't compare them to the top centers but compares them to other guards and forwards.

    The only ones they listed ahead of Kobe and Lebron were Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan. Even Larry Bird (rightfully so) is ranked below them.

    Here is the final sentence in the Larry Bird comparison:

    Yet Bird’s lack of the incredible athleticism exhibited by Kobe and LeBron make him another also-ran.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Kobe was only the best player on one of his championships. Bird is clearly the better player. He made his teamates better, had more size, was a better rebounder, and a better passer.

    Plus I don't remeber the Celtics being on the lottery bubble ever under Bird. This season has to rank as one of the all time great failures from a suposedly elite player. So I think the final verdict has to be: 

    1) Bird

    2) lebron (he will probably pass bird)

    3) Kobe (Thanks shaq for getting me here.) 

     

     
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    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    http://hoopshype.com/columns/rosen/where-do-kobe-and-lebron-rank-among-the-all-time-greats

    This article is very accurate. It doesn't compare them to the top centers but compares them to other guards and forwards.

    The only ones they listed ahead of Kobe and Lebron were Oscar Robertson and Michael Jordan. Even Larry Bird (rightfully so) is ranked below them.

    Here is the final sentence in the Larry Bird comparison:

    Yet Bird’s lack of the incredible athleticism exhibited by Kobe and LeBron make him another also-ran.

     



    Kobe was only the best player on one of his championships. Bird is clearly the better player. He made his teamates better, had more size, was a better rebounder, and a better passer. So I think the final verdict has to be 

     

     

    1) Bird

    2) lebron (he will probably pass bird)

    3) Kobe (Thanks shaq for getting me here.) 

     




    I agree LeBron may pass Bird all-time.

    Lost in  a lot of these discussions are two STUD guards, who did it without benefit of the 3 point shot.

    Jerry West - who Tommy Heinsohn called " a freak" and he meant it as the highest compliment - a guy who could score on anyone

    Sam Jones - 10 rings, super fast and quick, gave The Logo fits.

    Either way, I list my all-time by TEAM

    1st team:

    Magic, MJ, Bird (for now) , Duncan, Russell

    Big O, Kobe, LeBron (for now), Malone, Kareem

    LeBron may crack the top 5 all-time, kobe never will!

     
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    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

     

    The uneducated fan associate athletism with vertical leap and baseline-to-baseline speed. Athleticism is also endurance, strength and quickness, all of which Bird had. Remember the Oven Game in the '84 Finals? While the Lakers were sucking oxygen masks, Bird had 34 and 17 in 42 minutes.

     

     

     
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    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

    Lebron's Heat vs. Jordan's Bulls.....  Jordan's Bulls win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Bird's Celtics.... Bird's Celtics win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Magic's Lakers.... Magic's Lakers win.

     

     

     

     



    I wouldn't be so sure of that. You don't win 22 straight in any sport by luck and the Heat are proving this team belongs with the greats

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to Jimmy42Jack0's comment:

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Jordan's Bulls.....  Jordan's Bulls win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Bird's Celtics.... Bird's Celtics win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Magic's Lakers.... Magic's Lakers win.

     

     

     

     

     



    I wouldn't be so sure of that. You don't win 22 straight in any sport by luck and the Heat are proving this team belongs with the greats

     



    I guess the rockets are there too then, since they a streak like this as well.  Streaks mean nothing. Enjoy it while you can.  You won't be able to keep buying teams in the future.

    Also Bidr  never had to go to another team and team up with all stars to get his.  He did it by making everyone better.   Lebron is a great ball player but I would take Bird any day.

     
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    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

     

    In response to Jimmy42Jack0's comment:

     

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Jordan's Bulls.....  Jordan's Bulls win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Bird's Celtics.... Bird's Celtics win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Magic's Lakers.... Magic's Lakers win.

     

     

     

     

     



    I wouldn't be so sure of that. You don't win 22 straight in any sport by luck and the Heat are proving this team belongs with the greats

     

     



    I guess the rockets are there too then, since they a streak like this as well.  Streaks mean nothing. Enjoy it while you can.  You won't be able to keep buying teams in the future.

     

    Also Bidr  never had to go to another team and team up with all stars to get his.  He did it by making everyone better.   Lebron is a great ball player but I would take Bird any day.

     



    Bird didn't have to go to another team to join up with other players because here were some of his teammates:

     

    McHale - HOF

    Parish - HOF

    Johnson - HOF

    Walton - HOF

    Ainge - Solid offensive and defensive player

    Maxwell - Solid offensive and defensive player

     -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And he was the best player on those teams. Which demonstrates Bird's greatness.  

    Bird, was trancedent to watch.  He played the game the way it should have been played. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Bird was better than Kobe.

    Bird was also a great athlete until he hurt his back.

    Watch the 50 Greatest Moments of Larry Bird.

     




    Bird was a great athlete?

     

    He wasn't even an average athlete in the NBA.

    He wasn't even a below average athlete for NBA standards.

    He was a poor athlete.



    He was above average, quick feet. strong, with great vision. He could dominate a game without scoring, his Basketball IQ was off the charts. His teamates liked and respected him. 

    Bird was basketball greatness personified. 

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JG9000. Show JG9000's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Bird was better than Kobe.

    Bird was also a great athlete until he hurt his back.

    Watch the 50 Greatest Moments of Larry Bird.

     




    Bird was a great athlete?

     

    He wasn't even an average athlete in the NBA.

    He wasn't even a below average athlete for NBA standards.

    He was a poor athlete.

     



    He was above average, quick feet. strong, with great vision. He could dominate a game without scoring, his Basketball IQ was off the charts. His teamates liked and respected him. 

     

    Bird was basketball greatness personified. 




    don't forget he was a rebounding machine.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to Jimmy42Jack0's comment:

    In response to chetgnat's comment:

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Jordan's Bulls.....  Jordan's Bulls win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Bird's Celtics.... Bird's Celtics win.

     

    Lebron's Heat vs. Magic's Lakers.... Magic's Lakers win.

     

     

     

     

     



    I wouldn't be so sure of that. You don't win 22 straight in any sport by luck and the Heat are proving this team belongs with the greats

     




    Who said it was luck?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    Bird was not really a "great" athlete.

    Russell and Chamberlain were two of the best pure athletes to ever play the game.

    Kareem was not a "great" athlete, neither was Magic

     

    But they were all very good athletes - you'd have to be just to play in the league.  I'd argue DJ, McHale and Parish were not "great" athletes.  The league was/is filled with them

    And they were all outstanding basketball players.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Bird was better than Kobe.

    Bird was also a great athlete until he hurt his back.

    Watch the 50 Greatest Moments of Larry Bird.

     




    Bird was a great athlete?

     

    He wasn't even an average athlete in the NBA.

    He wasn't even a below average athlete for NBA standards.

    He was a poor athlete.

     



    He was above average, quick feet. strong, with great vision. He could dominate a game without scoring, his Basketball IQ was off the charts. His teamates liked and respected him. 

     

    Bird was basketball greatness personified. 

     



    ONLY a Celtics fan would think Bird was an above average NBA athlete.

     

    If Bird played in a YMCA league then I would agree with you.

     



    more to being an athlete than running and jumping. bird had unprecedented hand eye coordination and vision. It is what made him such a transcedent player. and he was never second fiddle on his team. 

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to JG9000's comment:

     

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Bird was better than Kobe.

    Bird was also a great athlete until he hurt his back.

    Watch the 50 Greatest Moments of Larry Bird.

     




    Bird was a great athlete?

     

    He wasn't even an average athlete in the NBA.

    He wasn't even a below average athlete for NBA standards.

    He was a poor athlete.

     



    He was above average, quick feet. strong, with great vision. He could dominate a game without scoring, his Basketball IQ was off the charts. His teamates liked and respected him. 

     

    Bird was basketball greatness personified. 

     




    don't forget he was a rebounding machine.

     

     



    True. Who else at the three could give you 8-10 rebounds everynight? The guy was half center, half point guard. 

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from taz1956. Show taz1956's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    In response to TommyRules's comment:

    In response to jtkl's comment:

     

    In response to TommyRules' comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Bird was better than Kobe.

    Bird was also a great athlete until he hurt his back.

    Watch the 50 Greatest Moments of Larry Bird.

     




    Bird was a great athlete?

     

    He wasn't even an average athlete in the NBA.

    He wasn't even a below average athlete for NBA standards.

    He was a poor athlete.

     



    He was above average, quick feet. strong, with great vision. He could dominate a game without scoring, his Basketball IQ was off the charts. His teamates liked and respected him. 

     

    Bird was basketball greatness personified. 

     



    ONLY a Celtics fan would think Bird was an above average NBA athlete.

     

    If Bird played in a YMCA league then I would agree with you.



    Bird had skills that upgraded his basketball abilities and made him an extraordinary player. He has a court vision that only a few in the history of the NBA had like Oscar Robertson. This vision gave him the advantage of seeing the play develop before anyone else which mad him appear faster than he was. Bird's defense was mush better than his ability as he was constantly moving and getting into position to make a play. I remember him playing against Dr J in a playoff game and forcing him into bad shots for most of the game. I also remember him passing off to Kevin McHale so he could set a single game Celtic scoring  record. Then he told McHale not to be comfortable and a week later eclipse that record. Bird Always played the team game and knew that getting the best out of his teammates would make the chances of winning that much better unlike Kobe who reverts to ball hogging at crunch time. You have to look at the big picture when you compare players, the fastest and the strongest are not always the best. One last thing, players like Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Robertson, West and Chamberlain have more heart and the will to win than either Lebron or Kobe. Lebron is learning and may get there but Kobe is too selfish.

     
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    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

     

     They rank in the era when fiction became the narative.  40 shots for forty points, traveling, ability to pout your way to the free throw line, barrel over defenders, get no foul calls against.  

     Shakespeare's death scene of Caesar (Mark Antony was never there) is closer to fact than the NBA's "superstars".

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Where do Kobe and Lebron rank?

    I


    Unprecedented hand/eye coordination? Compared to who?

     

    How do you measure that against other players?

    That still doesn't mean he was a great or good athlete.

    Would you say that someone that can stack and unstack solo cups with great speed is a great athlete?

     ----------------------------------------------



    Compared to anyone to ever play the game.  Someone who can score, pass and rebound at will is a great athlete.  

     

    Also, The Celtics never dropped into the lottery with Bird playing. He made them instant contenders.  Lebron can also say that. Jordan can also say that. Magic can also say that. Others can't. 

     

     

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