Without Bias

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Without Bias

    Sure this has been discussed here before my arrival. 

    Just watched Without Bias tonight, probably one of the saddest things I've watched. What Bias did was stupid to the extreme but everyone does make mistakes in life, we just don't figure that one of them will kill us.

    Heart went out to his parents and family, even more tragic was the death the his brother Jay. Just pointless and awful.

    Later I watched some footage of Bias on youtube, but mostly it's just comprised of Dunks and a few jump shots.

    To the people who saw him and around at the time. Just how good was he? Wilbon was putting him up there with Jordan. And if the Celtics had a Jordanesque player on the team, would the reign of the Bulls had taken place as we know it?

    Wilbon described Bias as playing with a controlled rage, used the same expression for Jordan, that he had that factor which guys like Carmello and especially Lebron James seem to lack, yet all true champions possess. Could he have taken Boston to more championships in the 90's?

    Could surmise one thing. The career of Kevin McHale may have been extended. With Bias in the side, McHale may have rested his foot in 1987 and wouldn't have compounded his injury. Plus I imagine Bias would have caused trouble for us in the 1987 finals. Although as a rook I don't know how much damage he could have caused, it may have been negligible or he could have played like Magic did in 1980. It's a big what if.

    Personally I don't know what to think of his talent. I don't know if it's all hype that's built up over time or that he was the genuine article. 


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Great post.....I went to a sports bar next to my office to watch that draft (the draft was held at lunchtime back then)...I was sitting with baited breath hoping that Red's mind games would work.......sure enough, Red selected Bias at #2  ...needless to say I was thrilled....I'll never forget the phone call from a buddy telling me Lenny was gone a couple of days later....I remember the conversation like it was yesterday....Bias was an incredible player....bigger than Jordan...I remember watching the NCAA tournament in '86....it was months before the Celtics would win #16....Dick Vitale was being interviewed and someone asked how his pick would impact the team drafting him...Vitale said "watch out baby...Boston wants him and if they get him.....wrap up the championship trophy right now....they will be unstoppable"....losing him and then Lewis set this franchise back many years....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from HarryMangurian. Show HarryMangurian's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    That and Lewis sent the franchise into the Dark Ages for awhile. I guess that is the nature of being a sports fan. Pondering the "what if's"
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinnacle10. Show pinnacle10's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    In Response to Re: Without Bias:
    [QUOTE]6....Dick Vitale was being interviewed and someone asked how his pick would impact the team drafting him...Vitale said "watch out baby...Boston wants him and if they get him.....wrap up the championship trophy right now....they will be unstoppable".....
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]

    There's no doubt Bias could have very well changed the Celtics in the 90s.  Even if he was no Jordan he could have prevented Jordan from being the guy he's known as today.  Although quoting Dick Vitale doesn't really mean much.  The guy over hypes everything.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Yeah, Dicky V is over the top at times with his "diaper dandy's" and all....but I can't get enough of him myself....I do think Bias would've changed some NBA history had he played for the Celtics....Worthy nailed it in her post!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    How good would Bias have been?   We'll never know.  But Larry Bird said that when management asked what he thought of Bias after showing him some game film, Bird replied that Bias reminded him of James Worthy and Bernard King, two of his favorite players.  Bird especially liked Bias's mean streak and said that if they had a chance to get Bias they should jump on it.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Paul, I remember it so well........my best friend (he's that Laker fan I always referr to) kept touting Bias throughout his college days....once he found out the Celtics had a shot at him, he refused to discuss his game at all....he told me later on that the thought of Bias in a Celtic uniform was the last thing he wanted to see...remember the Celtics had just dominated the league....what an addition...instead...we lose him...and Bird, McHale, Parish, Walton, and Wedman are all hit by injuries.....that, my friends, was the beginning of the end for that team....add in Lewis several years later....wow
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Yeah Duke.  The whole thing was almost obscene.  One of the greatest teams of all time-- 67-15, 40-1 at home, steamrolled through the playoffs to the title compiling a 15-3 record-- had just landed a player who had the potential for greatness to add to starters who were all in their prime.  Talk about the rich getting richer.

    When I heard Bias had died I thought it was a some kind of sick joke.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    I did too Paul.....I called the local sports desk to confirm the story (since there were no laptops back then)......I thought we were going onto a nice string of titles...then the very sad news...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    bias would have changed everything.  extended bird's career.  nothing short of a dominant force in his stead would have made bird content to trim the minutes back.  it was said that bias was a bigger stronger jordan.  and that was right. 

    many people have said the celtics may well have closed out the 80's with a 3-peat.  and then the 90s would not have been horrible.  between 88 and 90, with bias and some shred of the big 3 left, we should have won an additional 2 championships anyway.

    there is no possible way to measure the impact bias would have had in the 90's.  but his presence would have totally changed the composure of the team and atmosphere.  it seemed like forever before anyone decent wanted to come here.  bias plus a young pierce and walker?  we probably would not have drafted walker if we had bias, so who knows.

    and most importantly, the pitino project probably would not have occurred, and all of the uber destructive deals that he made, jettisoning legitimate talent because he had ADD.  best case scenario would have been bird sticking around in the front office compared to all of the lackluster upper level personnel of the 90s we ended up having.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Great thoughts.....makes sense to me!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    I don't know how much he'd have helped Bird. Bird may have reduced his minutes, but it would have been hard for a guy with Birds mentality to take. Plus Birds back problems were hereditary, so nothing would have stopped his back from deteriorating towards the end of his playing career. 

    As with the 88-90 years. I don't know if the Celtics would have gotten over the Pistons hump. They did in 1987, on the back of a miracle play by Bird. Which almost matched the miracle 'comeback' against the 76ers in 1981. The Sixers really should have come out of the East in 81 though 83. The Pistons peaked for the late 80's so beating them for an aging Celtics team with Bias may have been difficult.

    Jordan had trouble with the Pistons. Although Bias would have had team mates like Bird, Parish, McHale and Johnson to help him get over the Pistons tactics, plus the Celtics did play a physical style of Basketball. Pistons being younger may have just had the edge. And even so, the Pistons did implode after losing to the Bulls and realizing they didn't have that mental edge on them and particular Jordan.

    The Jordan V Bias era would have been incredible. 

    I believe the Celtics may have challenged the Bulls each year hard to say what team would come out on top. Jordan and Pippen were a great, if not the greatest pair of players in modern basketball. Was Jordan destined to win those titles? The man was a basketball genius. 

    Celtics would have had Bias, Lewis would have been there until the end of the first round in 1993 or whenever his heart would have given out on him (the saddest thing), so you'd say the Celtics would have a great forward duo up to that point. McHale may not have been destroyed his foot in 1987 and would have been able to keep contributing. Parish would be there in the early nineties. Not sure about the rest of the supporting cast though. 

    Jordan and Pippen V Bias and Lewis. Plus help from McHale and Parish. Can't say much in regards to Bias but Lewis may have had issues with Pippen and or Jordan defending him. Those guys really could play defense. McHale semi healthy would have been an X-Factor as none of the Bulls bigs would have had a hope in guarding him.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    the ONLY way bird would have accepted less minutes was the collective team totally dominating (thanks to bias' presence) and bias being able to switch between the 3/4 and bird played the 4.  bias was the rare physical specimen at his muscle bulk and talent level who was turn key nba talent and could have had an immediate impact.  instead of a lost '89 season, bird may well have been able to rest those heels enough to heal them, etc. etc.

    i know larry's instinct was killer all the time but the only possible way he would have stepped his minutes down is if he legitimately envsioned it being best for the team and that the team had a legit chance to contend for more rings because bias was there and could take care of holding things down for the regular season and most likely making significant post season contributions.

    you can never predict how birds' prolongation may have played out but if he did buy into playing a kg type of 28-30 minute level during the regular season vs. the obligatory 40, that adds up to one season for every three.  and his body would have had much more of a break from the wear and tear of a cowens type lunatic's hustling antics.  this is not to be underestimated.

    the end result may not have been a significant extension of bird's career in years, but less injury time and more effectiveness through at least 1992.

    i don't think that the pistons were that far ahead of us.  they didn't add much to finish out the 80s (already had dantley, right?) and if we had bias that would have put us over the top of them to get out of the east.  michael did not have enough backing him in chicago to deal with the c's with bias in the fold. 

    so it would have been the aging lakers with byron scott as a younger piece vs. the aging c's with bias as the young piece- clearly we had the stronger younger piece!  i think we would have won 2 more rings minimum.  and like i said many were mumbling 3 peat starting in bias' draft year. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from KB24RULZ. Show KB24RULZ's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    In Response to Re: Without Bias:
    [QUOTE]bias would have changed everything.  extended bird's career.  nothing short of a dominant force in his stead would have made bird content to trim the minutes back.  it was said that bias was a bigger stronger jordan.  and that was right.  many people have said the celtics may well have closed out the 80's with a 3-peat.  and then the 90s would not have been horrible.  between 88 and 90, with bias and some shred of the big 3 left, we should have won an additional 2 championships anyway. there is no possible way to measure the impact bias would have had in the 90's.  but his presence would have totally changed the composure of the team and atmosphere.  it seemed like forever before anyone decent wanted to come here.  bias plus a young pierce and walker?  we probably would not have drafted walker if we had bias, so who knows. and most importantly, the pitino project probably would not have occurred, and all of the uber destructive deals that he made, jettisoning legitimate talent because he had ADD.  best case scenario would have been bird sticking around in the front office compared to all of the lackluster upper level personnel of the 90s we ended up having.
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    Muahahahahaha cuckoo....cuckoo.....cuckoo!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaytf25. Show jaytf25's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    In Response to Re: Without Bias:
    [QUOTE]I don't know how much he'd have helped Bird. Bird may have reduced his minutes, but it would have been hard for a guy with Birds mentality to take. Plus Birds back problems were hereditary, so nothing would have stopped his back from deteriorating towards the end of his playing career.  As with the 88-90 years. I don't know if the Celtics would have gotten over the Pistons hump. They did in 1987, on the back of a miracle play by Bird. Which almost matched the miracle 'comeback' against the 76ers in 1981. The Sixers really should have come out of the East in 81 though 83. The Pistons peaked for the late 80's so beating them for an aging Celtics team with Bias may have been difficult. Jordan had trouble with the Pistons. Although Bias would have had team mates like Bird, Parish, McHale and Johnson to help him get over the Pistons tactics, plus the Celtics did play a physical style of Basketball. Pistons being younger may have just had the edge. And even so, the Pistons did implode after losing to the Bulls and realizing they didn't have that mental edge on them and particular Jordan. The Jordan V Bias era would have been incredible.  I believe the Celtics may have challenged the Bulls each year hard to say what team would come out on top. Jordan and Pippen were a great, if not the greatest pair of players in modern basketball. Was Jordan destined to win those titles? The man was a basketball genius.  Celtics would have had Bias, Lewis would have been there until the end of the first round in 1993 or whenever his heart would have given out on him (the saddest thing), so you'd say the Celtics would have a great forward duo up to that point. McHale may not have been destroyed his foot in 1987 and would have been able to keep contributing. Parish would be there in the early nineties. Not sure about the rest of the supporting cast though.  Jordan and Pippen V Bias and Lewis. Plus help from McHale and Parish. Can't say much in regards to Bias but Lewis may have had issues with Pippen and or Jordan defending him. Those guys really could play defense. McHale semi healthy would have been an X-Factor as none of the Bulls bigs would have had a hope in guarding him.
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]

    I agree but in reverse. I think when the Celtics beat the Sixers in 81,I thought the Sixers were better. When the Sixers beat the Celts in 82, I thought the Celts were better.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    I agree about 1981.  Philly had the C's down 3-1 and Boston won three straight by something like a combined five points.  It was the most heart stopping series I've ever witnessed.


    It's extra sweet when your team beats someone who was probably better.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    Move on people.....it is what it is. RIP Len Bias and Reggie Lewis.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LAkeravenger. Show LAkeravenger's posts

    Re: Without Bias

    If Red was such a genius in his drafting, how come he didn't vet Bias's drug use? Red was so smart that he drafted a drug addict. All you fans who think Bias was another Jordan are laughable. Had Bias lived he would have been in and out of rehab and traded around the league from team to team.
     

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