The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]Kellog doing a GREAT job at UMass, another win yesterday, 5-2 in A10.  keep it up DK!
    Posted by Breeze33[/QUOTE]

    The Conference this year is strange to say the least. Umass at 5-2 is tied for third. Duquesne is in first place. Maybe an NIT bid is possible.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Agreed, NIT isn't out of the question yet. Boy are us UMass fans trying to will DK to success. I'm particularly impressed with his dismissal of needed guards Doug Wiggins before season, and Daryl Traynham today, knowing well that the team would suffer in their absence. It looks like the Minutemen are coming together but I still predict a few head scratching losses this year.  However, this upward trajectory will REALLY help recruiting down the line.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread : The Conference this year is strange to say the least. Umass at 5-2 is tied for third. Duquesne is in first place. Maybe an NIT bid is possible.
    Posted by redbarchetta88[/QUOTE]

    Maybe a little too premature to permanently lock up this thread. DK just begged for fans to show up........after giving St. Joe's its first conference win. Here's Riley after the game.

    "We didn't take them (St.Joe's) seriously," Riley said. "(We) played around in practice. We aren't at a level of a basketball team to do that."
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from minutefan12. Show minutefan12's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Well I am sorry to say that I was at the game today. It was pathetic! No effort and no flow to the game in terms of Kellogg's play calling. We should have fired him yesterday! The man who should be the coach was at the game today though, Al Skinner! Makes sense to me get someone in here who can coach and recruit something Kellogg can't do!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    A few head scratching losses are turning into a bunch. Vance Wahlberg and the DDM needs to go.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    I've been in the Camp that says when you hire a guy with no experience then you need to stick with him while he learns.  This is all predicated on signs of gradual improvement.  You don't listen to the ninnies who rattle of the flavor of the month after every loss.  A couple of years ago it was "hire Bob Knight".  Before that "Tony Barbee" was the cure for all our ills. 

    And currently we have a couple of folks who think a 58 year old who was run out of his last job, and who is clearly more than ready to enjoy retirement, is going to save us.

    No.  That line of thinking gave us Steve Lappas.  If we're going to cut the cord it has to be based on the lack of progress.  There has to be a new long term plan, not some panicked bandaid approach. 

    There has been some improvement.  The defensive efforts have been solid and consistent.  The stretches of good ball have been a little longer.  Based on that, another year of Kellogg is due.

    That said there are still fundamental problems.  This team can't possibly be as inept putting the ball in the hole as they've been showing.  The entire offense needs to be scrapped.   And yes, Wahlberg needs to back his bags and go back to California.  His system has never worked for anyone, at any level, unless you want to count a few years at Memphis, where stacked NBA-quality rosters would have made any offense work.  We don't have that here. Nobody, except for a handful of elite programs, have those kinds of rosters.

    They don't appear to be committed to it, they try to run it here and there.  But anyone can clearly see that the best stretches of scoring all come from basically run-and-gun.  As soon as they shift down into that assinine WTFISIT the scoring is over, save for the occasional Gurley creation.

    Even if Wahlberg sticks the rest of the season, his baby needs to go even sooner than that.  Like next game.  Kellogg is supposed to be intelligent.  Time to demonstrate, show a little creativity.  He needs to look at a guy like Everhardt at Duquenes.  Everhardt looks at the pieces he has, and then develops an approach. Even when he had no weapons whatsoever a couple of years ago when that campus shooting devasted his roster, he still came up with a scheme that was a blast to watch (and I imagine play), and won at least as often as this crappy WTFISIT. Kellogg on the other hand, seems intent of cramming a system down the collective throat of a roster that is not equipped to run it.

    Another year like this one,  with no adjustments, Wahlberg still trying, unsuccessfully, to breath life into his dead baby, then yeah, buh-bye.   Maybe the AD should apply a little pressure to that end, if Kellogg can't figure it out on his own.   Smart, maybe. Quick learner, he definitely is not.

    Al Skinner is not the cure.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Funny that Steve Lappas is brought up. He was 16-12 his final year. However, he was fired because attendance had plummetted and interest in the team was nonexistant. I mention that because attendance this season is down, with yesterday's game drawing only 3,098. It's hard to support a team that hasn't contended for a NCAA Tournament spot since 1998, and doesn't look like it will be near the Big Dance anytime soon.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    The Kellogg tenure has been a disaster so far, any way you slice it.  No argument there. The home scheduling is about as unattractive as it gets, the style of playing boring as hell even when it's working, and of course it's NOT working very often. Attendance is in the crapper as a result.

    If we want to compare coaching regimes,  Flint would be a better comparison to Kellogg than Lappas.  Lappas had 13 years of head coaching experience at 2 different schools before he arrived in Amherst.  He was clearly in decline and so unpopular they ran him out of town before his contract was up.   Lappas compares better to the savior du jour, Al Skinner.

    Despite all the experience Lappas had coming in, along with a decent roster, it still took him 4 years before he had a modest winning record.   So if we gave the experienced guy 4 years, why wouldn't we give the green guy at least that much time too? Kellogg is only in his 3rd season.

    Flint was fired after 5 years, his last roster came within 6 minutes of winning the A10 tournament and getting the automatic bid, barely losing to a Temple team that if I'm remembering correctly, went to the Elite 8 that year.  As it was he still went to the post season 3 of his 5 years, should've had a 4th with another NIT bid.  Firing Flint at that point was a mistake.

    So, I think I just talked myself into supporting Kellogg for 2 more years.  Gulp. ;-).  Gad, I hope he picks up the pace, the learning curve shouldn't be that big.  My suspicions are he just doesn't have what it takes, but at this point may as well make sure of that because at the moment nobody's watching anymore, and very few give a sh!t
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    I made the trek out to Amherst last night for the Duquesne game.  It was a depressing experience.   Something has to change when the season mercifully draws to a close.  If Vance Wahlberg is not fired, immediately,  then I am not returning again.  I'm sure many of the other remaining fans feel the same,  all 72 of them. 

    And that's just a start.  Kellogg needs to start showing some signs that he has a clue.  At the moment he looks completely lost.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    If you want to focus on signs of progress, Jesse Morgan had a good game off the bench. Other than that this season has been brutal. If I'm the AD I give Kellogg this ultimatum for next season: "Make the NIT, or your gone". I believe his contract is for 5 years, so giving him 2 years risks a lame duck 5th season where he just won't try.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Actually it was a 6 year deal:

    http://umasshoops.com/history/alumni/derek_kellogg/contract_details20081008.htm

    If I'm reading that correctly, including the media stuff, he's making over $500K now.  He's clearly not leaving of his own accord, and one doubts the University can afford a buy out, certainly not 3 years worth.   We're all going to have to suck it up. 

    As for Jesse Morgan,  I can't get too excited about that.  Jeff Slavoski light it up against a very good Xavier team a few years ago.  And was never heard from again. 

    Worse still is if Morgan can repeat that this season. I suspect Freddie Riley won't be back,  so I could see Morgan taking over as the one-man show from Gurley, who took over from Harris.  Oh boy, just what we don't need, another one-man show.  You would think Kellogg would try something different by now.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox01. Show redsox01's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]Actually it was a 6 year deal: http://umasshoops.com/history/alumni/derek_kellogg/contract_details20081008.htm If I'm reading that correctly, including the media stuff, he's making over $500K now.  He's clearly not leaving of his own accord, and one doubts the University can afford a buy out, certainly not 3 years worth.   We're all going to have to suck it up.  As for Jesse Morgan,  I can't get too excited about that.  Jeff Slavoski light it up against a very good Xavier team a few years ago.  And was never heard from again.  Worse still is if Morgan can repeat that this season. I suspect Freddie Riley won't be back,  so I could see Morgan taking over as the one-man show from Gurley, who took over from Harris.  Oh boy, just what we don't need, another one-man show.  You would think Kellogg would try something different by now.  
    Posted by SlimPickensII[/QUOTE]

    Your enthusiasm is overwhelming!!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread : Your enthusiasm is overwhelming!!!
    Posted by redsox01[/QUOTE]

    It's hard not to get caught up in the excitement that is UMass basketball.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread : Your enthusiasm is overwhelming!!!
    Posted by redsox01[/QUOTE]

    UMass basketball. Curing insomnia since 1998.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Tremendous showing by your Massachusetts Minutemen yesterday!!!  Despite being down by 31 points to a potent LaSalle Explorer squad (ranked 14th in many categories in the Atlantic, uhm, 10) , they scratched and clawed their way back and only lost by 21. They won the second half too!  Good times, good times. 

    Since no sane person can actually watch this pathetic team in their death spiral, one checks out the box scores from a safe distance away.  The sure giveaway that Derek Kellogg doesn't have a clue is in the minutes column.  10 guys well over double-digits.  What depth!  We have that going for us, which is nice.  Most of those other teams have to rely on a 7 or 8 man rotation, but not us.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Since the month of December began this team is 8-12.  The month of February they went 2-5.  Obviously they're moving in the right direction.  They just need more time.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    [QUOTE]Since the month of December began this team is 8-12.  The month of February they went 2-5.  Obviously they're moving in the right direction.  They just need more time.
    Posted by SlimPickensII[/QUOTE]

    As it's been established, Derek Kellogg is a great assistant coach who can recruit. As a head coach, he's in way over his head. Thus is the luck the Massachusetts Minutemen have had. They had the chance to select UMass alum Tony Barbee, who had two years of experience at UTEP when the opening became available. Instead we gave it to the local kid who thinks the best way to win is to go door to door and sell season tickets like they're Girl Scout cookies. Attendance is down, the team is going nowhere fast, and the program continues to stagnate in limbo.

    Get excited for the CIT folks. It's the best we're getting under Kellogg.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Despite my frustrations with this team, hiring Kellogg was worth a shot.  Right move at the time.  And the right thing to do is also give him a couple more years,  provided he actually does something different,  starting with a coaching staff shakeup in the off season. If he retains Wahlberg, well,  that speaks volumes about Kellogg's flexibility, ability to adapt, and I'd see no reason to carry on past next season unless there was drastic - DRASTIC - improvement.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Minutemen429. Show Minutemen429's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Kellogg is a good recruiter, but apparently can't motivate or in game coach a team, based on the wild inconsistency of the team.  I don't think he'll be let go because of his contract, but I think that Kellogg could be helped by an experienced assistant coach next year.  Not comparing Kellogg to Doc, but a Tom Thibodeau style assistant that is great with defense (or offense) would help Kellogg alot
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    The Temple game was frustrating to say the least. Frustrating because the team can't show that effort against the tomato cans from the nonconference schedule. If that effort was there in earlier games, maybe this season is more of a success. Beware the letdown in the Bronx.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    There's really nothing to take away from the Temple game.  You can't say they're learning, or getting better.  They've always shown that once in a great while, they can suck it up and try.  We already knew this.

    Fact is, they are 2-6 over the final stretch run. Half those losses were of the double-digit variety.  Doesn't matter if they pound Fordham, allow Fordham their first conference win in 3 years, or squeak it out.   The jury is already in with their verdict: UMass cannot deliver the goods on regular basis.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjunior. Show mjunior's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Leave him in his place. Sure, we are not in the tourney, but this team will end with a winning season, which is great considering last season was a 20-loss season. Don't forget that when you replace a coach, you basically start over.  A program will never have a chance to grow until you let it.  This is not one of the old school premiere programs (Like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas) so we are never going to attract top coaching talent.

    I was at UMass during the Cal years. Go back and look at history, UMass hired a no-name 29 year-old guy out of nowhere.  No one expected it to be what it was.  I can be there again, but that time was special and you almost never see anything like it.  I am a huge overall college hoops fan from those years and I thought it always worked that way (the Cal way) but no, that is extremely rare and was special.  I still feel that DK can capture that lightning again, but he is not Cal and it will take a bit more time and work to make it happen. 

    I wish that was not that case, but if I wanted instant results, I never would have remained a Red Sox or Pats fan. Look at this year as a huge step in the right direction and with new kids coming in, I can't wait to see what they are going to do.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Appreciate the enthusiasm m, but a "huge step in the right direction"?  You've got to be kidding.  They are marginally better than last season.  Last season was the worst in a decade.

    I was a freshman attending games back in 1977, so I've watched 9 different head coaches during that span.  Derek Kellogg ranks as the second worst of the entire lot, only Ray Wilson was less effective.  You can look a guy like McLaughin's won-loss record, and it wasn't great.  But he was in fact building, and the crowds recognized that, b/c the Cage was regularly packed and the games nearly always close.

    Kellogg didn't have to rebuild,  he inherited an NIT finalist that still had many of it's key parts.  I've lost track of how many games he's lost by 20 or more points.  That's the most damning part as far as I'm concerned.  The crowds have stopped coming, they're half the size of just a couple of years ago.   Perhaps he's brought in some talent, but at this point it's all unrealized potential.  And if he can't tap into it, then what's the point.

    If you want to compare with the Pats or Sox, note they didn't stick with the same managers/coaches year after year.  Once it was clear they were not the answer they were shown the door.  I agree only that we're not at that point with Kellogg.  But time is running very short for the guy and miniscule steps forward are not going to cut it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Patience Patience Patience! We've been patient since 1998. Say what you want about Travis Ford, but unlike Kellogg he had head coaching experience when he came to Amherst and he won. Ford got the program close to the NCAA Tournament. Problem is his "poor" recruiting is giving the fanbase a built in excuse to keep Kellogg around.

    I say this because Derek Kellogg, with his "Calipari magic", just gave Fordham their first conference win in three years. Inexcusable, but consider that without Gurley the Minutemen are no better than Fordham. In a region of frontrunners it is impossible to attract fans when a team is losing as consitently as UMass basketball is. Basketball is the flagship sport and the only athletic event on campus that has a chance of making money and getting fans to campus. The flailing program is dragging down the entire athletic program with it.

    Our only hope is that lacrosse takes off in America. UMass is #9 in the nation and now has eclipsed basketball as UMass's #2 sport (hockey still is #1 even in a down year).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox01. Show redsox01's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread


    The hockey team has been horrible, but I don't see anyone yelling to dump Cahoon.

    DK's recruits are sophomores still. They are above .500 for the first time at the end of the regular season. So I still think there is improvement.

    Derek had the guts to dump his starting point guard before A10 play. He dumped a starting Center and Point Guard two years ago for rules infractions.

    You know, I would love to see them win Tuesday against a tough Dayton team and pray for an upset of Xavier. While I doubt it would happen, I'm still pulling for my team and not blaming the head coach for everything. These are college kids - young college kids.

    My hope is they get in to the CBI or CIT this year, get some more time under Jesse Morgan and Raphael Putney's belts against mid-level competition. More, win or go home games may help to build the team. It would also be better than getting no invites -- especially for recruiting purposes. A little momentum is better than none.

    To quote Rick Pitino, "All the Negativity on This (thread) S#@%$!"

    Instant success is hard to come by.

    Go DK - GO UMass!!!

    Hope to see you all at the Dayton game!!! : />
     

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