EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013 Playoffs ??

    Can someone explain how the State Tournament Playoffs work.   Which rankings do they use?  The Division rankings on masshshockey.com?     And how many teams in first round?      Any insight you could lend would be great (or if you can point me to a place that outlines the rules of the State tournament).         

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    You need a "winning/50%" record.   Unless most of your games are against the a higher division in which case you need a winning record against your division (as explained earlier on this thread). 

    Seedings in the MIAA tournement are based strictly on the record used to qualify for the tournement (with ties broken by coin flip I beleive).  (Some teams play a few games which do not get counted for this purpose at the end of the year so sometimes the MIAA season record does not match up with the commonly reported record.)   There is no strength of schedule or rankings involved, which can sometimes end up with some teams who have very good won loss records, but who played a lot of weak teams, getting a high seed and then losing to a lower seed easily.  While this could allow for some gamemanship in the last game of a season to affect seeding, it is often so fluid that trying to do so would be a futile exercise.  (I know a few years back a lot of teams might hope to have been in the other side of the draw from St Marys back when they were on their roll, just to have a chance to meet them in the Garden.)

    The various rankings help to give an insight into which teams are actually well represented by their w/l/t records and which might be paper tigers.

    Look here for lots of details:

    http://www.miaa.net/gen/miaa_generated_bin/documents/basic_module/
    IceHockeyFormat1213final.pdf

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to PetefromNorthofBoston's comment:

    You need a "winning/50%" record.   Unless most of your games are against the a higher division in which case you need a winning record against your division (as explained earlier on this thread). 

    Seedings in the MIAA tournement are based strictly on the record used to qualify for the tournement (with ties broken by coin flip I beleive).  (Some teams play a few games which do not get counted for this purpose at the end of the year so sometimes the MIAA season record does not match up with the commonly reported record.)   There is no strength of schedule or rankings involved, which can sometimes end up with some teams who have very good won loss records, but who played a lot of weak teams, getting a high seed and then losing to a lower seed easily.  While this could allow for some gamemanship in the last game of a season to affect seeding, it is often so fluid that trying to do so would be a futile exercise.  (I know a few years back a lot of teams might hope to have been in the other side of the draw from St Marys back when they were on their roll, just to have a chance to meet them in the Garden.)

    The various rankings help to give an insight into which teams are actually well represented by their w/l/t records and which might be paper tigers.

    Look here for lots of details:

    http://www.miaa.net/gen/miaa_generated_bin/documents/basic_module/
    IceHockeyFormat1213final.pdf



    Great Info, thank for taking the time to explain it, I really appreciate it..

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Katprowl17. Show Katprowl17's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Just looked online to see some results and I saw that Winchester tied Woburn -- was anyone at that game??  I could not believe that result when I saw it!!!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockeydad2012. Show hockeydad2012's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Winchester played Woburn tuff (2-0) last time. Just one of those matchups remember any one can beat (or tie) any one on any given day

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilledhockeydad. Show Chilledhockeydad's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to hockeydad2012's comment:

    Winchester played Woburn tuff (2-0) last time. Just one of those matchups remember any one can beat (or tie) any one on any given day



    Winchester always treats the Woburn games as the biggest of the season, so the girls come out fired up. Nice to see they really came to play the game after clinching the playoff berth against Belmont.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to Chilledhockeydad's comment:

    In response to hockeydad2012's comment:

     

    Winchester played Woburn tuff (2-0) last time. Just one of those matchups remember any one can beat (or tie) any one on any given day

     



    Winchester always treats the Woburn games as the biggest of the season, so the girls come out fired up. Nice to see they really came to play the game after clinching the playoff berth against Belmont.

     



    Woburn vs Winchester is the "BIG" game in pretty much all sports as far as rivalry's go.  Its the TurkeyDay game, its the match.  Now in some sports they do not match up well, but both have had good hockey teams most years, both boys and girls.  So those matches are almost always tight ones.  I am guessing the weekend slate of games is pretty much doomed to snow at this point...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilledhockeydad. Show Chilledhockeydad's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    D2 looks like about 20 teams will make it. The last 4 are on the bubble. Listed in current order of winning percentage (because the MIAA does not take into account power rankings).  Would they set up the tournament where top teams get a bye, and the rest get a play in game to get it down to 16 teams? 

    Wellesley 12 0 3 Duxbury 15 1 1 Falmouth 13 1 1 Canton 14 2 1 Norwood 11 3 2 Norwell 8 3 4 Archbishop Williams 13 5   Latin Academy 10 4 3 Gardner/St Bernards 7 3 1 Marthas Vineyard 9 4 2 Walpole 10 5 1 Scituate 8 4 4 Westwood 9 5 2 Winchester 10 6 1 Sandwich 10 6 1 Medfield 8 5 3 Fontbonne Academy 9 6 2 Marshfield 9 6   Milton 9 6 2 Burlington 8 7   Tewksbury/Methuen 6 6 3 Concord-Carlisle 6 7 3 Whitman-Hanson/Pembroke 7 9 1
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    playoffs

    Rankings hardly seem fair when you look at the overall competition and varied level of play.   Take beverly/danvers in 4th place, they play mostly creampuff teams.  Is it always based solely on record even though the competition level is so varied.    It doesn't seem to balance out since a team like beverly being in 3rd or 4th will get a Bye and they will play a team on the bottom, moving them to a final spot.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Well Netty, no ranking scheme is ever fully agreed to by all, and when it comes down to things that are close or perhaps subjective, it is probably just as well to let pure W/L percentages do the determination.  At least those are clean objectve metrics.  A few years back in 2009  Woburn ended up getting the 22nd seed, but everyone knew they were MUCH better than that and ended up playing St Marys in the Garden. The good teams will generally rise to the top in the playoffs regardless of seed.  In most of the girls games, the top teams really do not have hard games against the bottom of the seeding pile, so the lack of that extra game is not really an issue.

    Even things like RPI which seems like an objective number can be skewed by how much someone chooses to weight the various aspects.  Shift the weighting and the teams move up and down, so those too have a degree of subjectivity based on what factors the creator feels is a better indicator of team strength.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to PetefromNorthofBoston's comment:

    Well Netty, no ranking scheme is ever fully agreed to by all, and when it comes down to things that are close or perhaps subjective, it is probably just as well to let pure W/L percentages do the determination.  At least those are clean objectve metrics.  A few years back in 2009  Woburn ended up getting the 22nd seed, but everyone knew they were MUCH better than that and ended up playing St Marys in the Garden. The good teams will generally rise to the top in the playoffs regardless of seed.  In most of the girls games, the top teams really do not have hard games against the bottom of the seeding pile, so the lack of that extra game is not really an issue.

    Even things like RPI which seems like an objective number can be skewed by how much someone chooses to weight the various aspects.  Shift the weighting and the teams move up and down, so those too have a degree of subjectivity based on what factors the creator feels is a better indicator of team strength.




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to PetefromNorthofBoston's comment:

    Well Netty, no ranking scheme is ever fully agreed to by all, and when it comes down to things that are close or perhaps subjective, it is probably just as well to let pure W/L percentages do the determination.  At least those are clean objectve metrics.  A few years back in 2009  Woburn ended up getting the 22nd seed, but everyone knew they were MUCH better than that and ended up playing St Marys in the Garden. The good teams will generally rise to the top in the playoffs regardless of seed.  In most of the girls games, the top teams really do not have hard games against the bottom of the seeding pile, so the lack of that extra game is not really an issue.

    Even things like RPI which seems like an objective number can be skewed by how much someone chooses to weight the various aspects.  Shift the weighting and the teams move up and down, so those too have a degree of subjectivity based on what factors the creator feels is a better indicator of team strength.



    Interesting Pete, thanks for the info, I suppose you are right on and perhaps it all does even out.     True about the subjectivity in the RPI, that's only as good as the most recent scores.     So......who won Woburn or St Marys?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    St Marys...:-(    it was 7 to 2, the game got away from Woburn.  St Marys was the odds on favorite having the #1 seed and going 20-0-1 on the regular season.   Woburn had been the #2 seed the year before and the year following.  Just had a string of bad luck, poor games and IIRC an injury or illness or two midseason that hurt their record 9-6-5 that year.

    It was 1-0 St Marys over Woburn in the finals the year before when they were seeded 1 and 2.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to PetefromNorthofBoston's comment:

    St Marys...:-(    it was 7 to 2, the game got away from Woburn.  St Marys was the odds on favorite having the #1 seed and going 20-0-1 on the regular season.   Woburn had been the #2 seed the year before and the year following.  Just had a string of bad luck, poor games and IIRC an injury or illness or two midseason that hurt their record 9-6-5 that year.

    It was 1-0 St Marys over Woburn in the finals the year before when they were seeded 1 and 2.

     



    Wow....Woburn definately seems to be a powerhouse this year, sounds like they have been doing a great job building their girls hockey program.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Katprowl17. Show Katprowl17's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to Netty_North's comment:

    In response to PetefromNorthofBoston's comment:

    In my opinion, they have the best HS coach in HS Hockey in Woburn -- and they keep their star players like a Kayla Smith because the girls know it and they want to play for him.   The other towns lose their top players to private schools and it really hurts their program.  McCurtain can take an average player and make them a star, he can take an underaverage player and make them compete with the best -- I know a few players on our team would appreciate having him as a coach as he would get them over the hurdle as not all men know how to coach a girl and I honestly believe that is the missing piece on our team.  We have a lot of girls with talent but he does not know how to bring that out of them....our coaching staff just tends to praise just a couple of girls and those unsung heros, who without them on the ice the 2-3 players would not be able to shine, as you cannot win a game with just 2-3 girls.  These girls just come off the ice feeling like they are not a part of the team and just really depleted -- it is sad because if he could just share a little bit of that with these other girls this team would really do something!!!

    Looking forward to ending the season and getting into the post season -- it is shaping up to be a great tournament!!  Good luck to all teams!!!

     

    St Marys...:-(    it was 7 to 2, the game got away from Woburn.  St Marys was the odds on favorite having the #1 seed and going 20-0-1 on the regular season.   Woburn had been the #2 seed the year before and the year following.  Just had a string of bad luck, poor games and IIRC an injury or illness or two midseason that hurt their record 9-6-5 that year.

    It was 1-0 St Marys over Woburn in the finals the year before when they were seeded 1 and 2.

     

     



    Wow....Woburn definately seems to be a powerhouse this year, sounds like they have been doing a great job building their girls hockey program.

     




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Katprowl17 is right.  At the high school level, you often find programs with enduring success have an excellent coach that is the centerpiece of that legacy.  Success breeds success as well.  The players come and go.  So a given school might excel for a few years with a superstar player, but they drop back to their normal level once that player moves on or graduates.  Some long time coaches are just that long time coaches and nothing to cheer about, just there.  KNowing the X's and O's is one thing, finding a way to motivate and engage the players is the heart of a top notch coach and leader.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetefromNorthofBoston. Show PetefromNorthofBoston's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Was just looking over the remaining schedules for the top teams and AC has a killer final 5 games.  StMarys (13-3-2) (AC won 3-2), Lexington (12-3-2), Falmouth (14-1-1), Woburn (15-0-3) and Duxbury (15-1-1).   Wow!  Guess the defending state champs are not gonna take the easy way on their way to the playoffs.

    AB plays all winning teams for its last 5 of the season.

    Woburn has 4 tough games (and one easy one Belmont who they beat 5-0)

    Lexington finishes with a strong slate (plus Belmont)

    Duxbury has a tough slate (except for a rescheduled contest)

    But no one comes close to the lineup AC will face.  Thats a wicked last couple of weeks of games.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockeydad2012. Show hockeydad2012's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Went to see BL from Medford last night and what a surprise I had. EL from Wat riped it up with 3 g and 2 a. BL got a meaningless pt with the game nearly over, I was expecting more from BL final score was 7 to 1 goalie from Wat/Mel was good also

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Netty_North. Show Netty_North's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to hockeydad2012's comment:

    Went to see BL from Medford last night and what a surprise I had. EL from Wat riped it up with 3 g and 2 a. BL got a meaningless pt with the game nearly over, I was expecting more from BL final score was 7 to 1 goalie from Wat/Mel was good also



    Must have been an off night, stats on her are fantastic, watch her play last year on Marys, she is incredibly talented.

    RANK NAME                       YEAR POSITION GOALS ASSISTS POINTS 1 Brittani Lanzilli             JR Forward   29               23 52
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from flyerhockeyman. Show flyerhockeyman's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to Netty_North's comment:

    In response to hockeydad2012's comment:

     

    Went to see BL from Medford last night and what a surprise I had. EL from Wat riped it up with 3 g and 2 a. BL got a meaningless pt with the game nearly over, I was expecting more from BL final score was 7 to 1 goalie from Wat/Mel was good also

     



    Must have been an off night, stats on her are fantastic, watch her play last year on Marys, she is incredibly talented.

     

    RANK NAME                       YEAR POSITION GOALS ASSISTS POINTS 1 Brittani Lanzilli             JR Forward   29               23 52




    EL is having a great season but for some reason Watertown/Melrose never gets any ink

     

    1 Brittani Lanzilli Medford JR Forward   29 Goals 23 Assists 52 Points   Alison Butler St Marys Lynn SR Forward Danvers 27 Goals 21 Assists 48 Points   Emily Loprete Watertown/Melrose Soph Forward   33 Goals 14 Assists 47 Points   The goalie also has 6 shutouts
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockeychrishna. Show hockeychrishna's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Duxbury 6 Walpole 3. (with ENG)

    Walpole was up 3-1 after 1 in this contest.  In the first 2 periods the refs decided to whistle Walpole 6 times for penalties vs. 0 for Duxbury.  Duxbury capitalized twice on the PP.  In the 3rd, the refs evened it up quite a bit, calling 3 penalties on Duxbury to 0 for Walpole.  Walpole however, could not capitalize.  And that essentially was the ballgame.  Walpole could have easily tied this game if they had stayed out of the box, as the 5 on 5 play was pretty close to even.

    HM scored the first goal beating Walpole's best defender.  Walpole struck back with goals from AY, BM and OM.  AY blasted one from the point, BM's goal was a pretty rush, going left to right just inside the bklue line, and whistling one past a stunend RM.

    Duxbury's 5th goal was a beautiful one timer by JD off a faceoff.

    All in all Walpole acquitted themselves quite well.  But they must find a way to stay out of the box, as teams like Duxbury generally have the edge on special teams.

     

    Having watched Walpole play Canton, Wellesley (twice) Falmouth and Duxbury, D2 looks like a toss up.  Falmouth losing one of their best players seems to have knocked them down a bit.  From this vantage point, Falmouth was the best of those 4 by a not insignificant margin.  But again that was before the injury.  All 4 of these teams look good, though I suspect Canton will have the toughest time because I think their goalie isn't quite as good as the other 3.  Wellesley probably the next to drop off as their goalie is much less experienced.

    I have not seen the North teams, but man oh man, does D2 seem to be all South!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mm3766. Show mm3766's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to hockeychrishna's comment:

    Duxbury 6 Walpole 3. (with ENG)

    Walpole was up 3-1 after 1 in this contest.  In the first 2 periods the refs decided to whistle Walpole 6 times for penalties vs. 0 for Duxbury.  Duxbury capitalized twice on the PP.  In the 3rd, the refs evened it up quite a bit, calling 3 penalties on Duxbury to 0 for Walpole.  Walpole however, could not capitalize.  And that essentially was the ballgame.  Walpole could have easily tied this game if they had stayed out of the box, as the 5 on 5 play was pretty close to even.

    HM scored the first goal beating Walpole's best defender.  Walpole struck back with goals from AY, BM and OM.  BM's goal was a pretty rush, going left to right just inside the bklue line, and whistling one past a stunend RM.

    Duxbury's 5th goal was a beautiful one timer by JD off a faceoff.

    All in all Walpole acquitted themselves quite well.  But they must find a way to stay out of the box, as teams like Duxbury generally have the edge on special teams.

     

    Having watched Walpole play Canton, Wellesley (twice) Falmouth and Duxbury, D2 looks like a toss up.  Falmouth losing one of their best players seems to have knocked them down a bit.  From this vantage point, Falmouth was the best of those 4 by a not insignificant margin.  But again that was before the injury.  All 4 of these teams look good, though I suspect Canton will have the toughest time because I think their goalie isn't quite as good as the other 3.  Wellesley probably the next to drop off as their goalie is much less experienced.

    I have not seen the North teams, but man oh man, does D2 seem to be all South!




     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mm3766. Show mm3766's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Can you recap a game without talking about the refs. Maybe the Walpole parents hair across their as s for the refs is the reason your players are dropping F-bombs at the refs and getting thrown out of games. Must be hereditary.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockeydad2012. Show hockeydad2012's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    Walpole, same thing at the youth level. Always the refs fault, the players so disrespect the game  same as the parents, gets  old real quick.What ever level it is Walpole never gives credit when other team maybe better. Poor sportsmenship

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hockeychrishna. Show hockeychrishna's posts

    Re: EMASS Girls Hockey 2012-2013

    In response to mm3766's comment:

    Can you recap a game without talking about the refs. Maybe the Walpole parents hair across their as s for the refs is the reason your players are dropping F-bombs at the refs and getting thrown out of games. Must be hereditary.



    Refs played a significant role in this game.  If they would have reffed the game evenly and not called penalties, Walpole would have gotten the tie.  If they had reffed the game evenly and called every penalty, the score would have been the same as it ended up.  Because as I mentioned, Deluxebury capitalized.  And again as I mentioned Duxbury had the edge on special teams.  6-0 in penalties in an evenly played contest through 2 periods is indicative of poor officiating.  Sorry you are too blind to see that.

    And I did give credit to Duxbury.

     

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