EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to NNDad's comment:

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    P.S. Give us some breathing room and take care of Norwood this week ok? :-) We *should have 3 easy ones left (Medford, Wellesley and Brookline) and should be able to clinch it, but ya just never know and having a game in hand in the loss column over Norwood would really help my heart over the next week. 

     




    Is there an overall Baystate Champion, or are there just division champions?  Anyway, NN has AB, Needham, and Norwood.  Hopefully they can pick up at least 2 more wins.  I think Norwood will be easier than AB, and Needham should be no problem, except that they beat us last time.

     

    I know DD would like to get back at Norwood for what was their most painful loss of the season in hockey.  With just 16 seconds left, Norwood scored two goals to win by one.  We know how Toronto feels.




    Yes, there is an overall Conference Championship and the Division ones, no banners for division ones though (at least in our school they only do the Conference ones). We haven't won either in a decade, they want it all. As of right now, we have the tiebreaker over Norwood with our win over them, but another league loss for them will give us a little breathing room and a league loss for us will give it to Norwood, hence why the game against you guys yesterday was so huge, that should have been our last tough/can go either way game for regular season (but Wellesley is kinda wierd this year so that game is actually making me nervous LOL). Good luck the rest of the way! 

     
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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

    There's so much parity this year, and so many more strong teams. I think it's awesome that there is no clear cut #1 that is just walking all over everyone. All of the top teams in both divisions have at least 2-3 teams each that they have to battle hard against every time they play each other and so many of these games can go either way. Will be an interesting & exciting post season this year I think. 



    Agreed...there is a lot of parity, but I think it is clear that Milford is # 1, even with the one loss.

    They play the difficult Hock schedule and outside of the league games they they play perenial top Ten teams.

     
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    There's so much parity this year, and so many more strong teams. I think it's awesome that there is no clear cut #1 that is just walking all over everyone. All of the top teams in both divisions have at least 2-3 teams each that they have to battle hard against every time they play each other and so many of these games can go either way. Will be an interesting & exciting post season this year I think. 

     



    Agreed...there is a lot of parity, but I think it is clear that Milford is # 1, even with the one loss.

     

    They play the difficult Hock schedule and outside of the league games they they play perenial top Ten teams.



    Who besides North Attleboro, Foxboro and KP are tough teams in that division? Serious question, not being sarcastic, those are the only teams in that division I know anything about.  

     
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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

     

    In response to MikeCage's comment:

     

    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

     

    There's so much parity this year, and so many more strong teams. I think it's awesome that there is no clear cut #1 that is just walking all over everyone. All of the top teams in both divisions have at least 2-3 teams each that they have to battle hard against every time they play each other and so many of these games can go either way. Will be an interesting & exciting post season this year I think. 

     



    Agreed...there is a lot of parity, but I think it is clear that Milford is # 1, even with the one loss.

     

    They play the difficult Hock schedule and outside of the league games they they play perenial top Ten teams.

     



    Who besides North Attleboro, Foxboro and KP are tough teams in that division? Serious question, not being sarcastic, those are the only teams in that division I know anything about.  

     

     



    Foxboro isn't tough Maybe you were thinking of Franklin as they are a good team.  Taunton and Oliver Ames have good teams as well. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NNDad. Show NNDad's posts

    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    I guess Hockeymomsrules question might also be asked as, can the competive teams in the Bay State conference compete against the best teams in Hockomock.  The general thinking in the Globe (as much as they give much thought to softball) seems to be that the the best teams in the state are in the Hockomock (Milford is ranked above three undefeated teams dispite a loss, KP is 5th despite two losses, and NA and Tauton are 9th and 10th despite 3 and 4 losses).  On the other hand, Framingham, the Baystate leader is not ranked in the top 20.

    I could only find one crossover game that has been played between the Bay State and Hockomoke, so it would be hard to make any general conclusions based on a single game, but I won't let that stop me.  Weymouth beat Oliver Ames 8-0.  Oliver Ames lost to Milford 7-0.  Therefore I'd have to say Weyouth would be a 1 run favorite over Milford.  Framingham has beaten Weymouth twice by and average of 1.5 runs.   So I'd have to say Framingham would be a 2.5 run favorite over Milford.  Weymouth's average margin of victory over NN was 2 runs, so I guess that would make Milford a 1 run favorite over NN.  Though Framinghams average margin of victory over NN was 0.5 runs, taking both Weymouth-NN and Framingham-NN into account makes NN a 1 run favorite over MIlford.

    So from my relative run total estimates I would have to give the following ranking:

    Framingham, Weymouth, NN, Milford.

    I admit its hard to see Framingham as a 2.5 run favorite over a team that hasn't had more than one scored against it, but thats the best I can do.

     
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    NNdad   it's pretty simple can the Bay State Teams score more runs than the avg runs given up for Milford (.20), KP ( .90) North Attleboro (1.3) and Taunton (1.6)? All these teams  have lower runs against per game than Framingham (1.9) Weymouth (3.0) and Newton North (2.1) There's no way Framingham will score one more run than Milford.

     
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    I don't know how accurate that stat is for others but for us it's not really a true stat as far as our starters go. Our coaching staff tends to like to put JV and Bench players in when they have a decent lead.  Each time they have all led to runs scored against that just wouldn't have happened had the starters been in. If you take out the one run that Dedham had, 1 of Needham's 2 runs scored against, the one that Brookline scored and the 2 that Northbridge scored, what does that make our RA? Those all would have and should have been shut outs if starters were in the whole game. If the other teams noted above have done the same and had runs against added to their stat because of it than it's a moot point and their bench is deeper than ours.  I'm just curious. I in no way think we should be ranked higher than Milford, I do think, it would be a tougher game than many give our team credit for though.

     

    @hawksdad, yes, Franklin, have no idea why my fingers typed Foxboro other than I was reading a Pats article right before reading here LOL

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NNDad. Show NNDad's posts

    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to hawksoftballdad's comment:

    NNdad   it's pretty simple can the Bay State Teams score more runs than the avg runs given up for Milford (.20), KP ( .90) North Attleboro (1.3) and Taunton (1.6)? All these teams  have lower runs against per game than Framingham (1.9) Weymouth (3.0) and Newton North (2.1) There's no way Framingham will score one more run than Milford.




    I just put it out there for fun, but it's not really that simple because these runs per game were against two completely different sets of teams, and my only valid point above is that there is really very little crossover play to make a judgement.  I could just argue that the Bay State is a stronger offensive conference than Hockomock, so that is why Bay State teams have higher runs against numbers.  In our one data point Weymouth has a 0.0 runs against when facing Hockomock teams.

    The real weakness in my arguement is that, because OA didn't score against either Weymouth or Milford, we can't tell much about the relative pitching and defense of Weymouth and Milford.  I actually know that Milford no hit OA, but I don't know how many hits OA got against Weymouth.

    I'm not saying that you not right (Milford is actually better than Framingham, Weymouth ...).  But I am saying that there is not enough crossover play to really tell from stats like runs allowed which conference and therefore which teams are actually stronger.  I do think that the good Bay State teams will be able to compete with Hockomock teams.  People who have actually seen the best teams in each conference play, and know more about softball than I do might be able to make a more informed judgement.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeCage. Show MikeCage's posts

    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to NNDad's comment:

    In response to hawksoftballdad's comment:

     

    NNdad   it's pretty simple can the Bay State Teams score more runs than the avg runs given up for Milford (.20), KP ( .90) North Attleboro (1.3) and Taunton (1.6)? All these teams  have lower runs against per game than Framingham (1.9) Weymouth (3.0) and Newton North (2.1) There's no way Framingham will score one more run than Milford.

     




    I just put it out there for fun, but it's not really that simple because these runs per game were against two completely different sets of teams, and my only valid point above is that there is really very little crossover play to make a judgement.  I could just argue that the Bay State is a stronger offensive conference than Hockomock, so that is why Bay State teams have higher runs against numbers.  In our one data point Weymouth has a 0.0 runs against when facing Hockomock teams.

     

    The real weakness in my arguement is that, because OA didn't score against either Weymouth or Milford, we can't tell much about the relative pitching and defense of Weymouth and Milford.  I actually know that Milford no hit OA, but I don't know how many hits OA got against Weymouth.

    I'm not saying that you not right (Milford is actually better than Framingham, Weymouth ...).  But I am saying that there is not enough crossover play to really tell from stats like runs allowed which conference and therefore which teams are actually stronger.  I do think that the good Bay State teams will be able to compete with Hockomock teams.  People who have actually seen the best teams in each conference play, and know more about softball than I do might be able to make a more informed judgement.



    This year I have seen games involving Milford, KP, N Attleboro, Taunton, Norwood, Fairhaven, Case, Apponoquet, Weymouth, NN, Feehan, Hopkinton, Grafton, Bridgewater- Raynham, Dracut, Coyle Cassidy, Silver Lake, Bellingham, and Tewksbury.  Some teams I have seen more than once.   Milford, Bridgewater-Raynham(despite a pitifully weak schedule) KP and N Attleboro are extremely strong teams that are head and shoulders above the rest.   Taunton High has one of the best pitchers in the state, who this year alone has out dueled top  two D1 bound pithcers, with a lesser known supporting cast around her and last year lost two heartbreakers against GW's Rico, including a 1 -0 loss in the States. Milford and BR, have 18U Gold travel players at almost every position.  BR has more depth than any other team in the state.  They have kids on their bench and JV, who would be league all stars at other schools or in other conferences. It is tough to compare conferences, but Milford, KP, NA, Franklin and Taunton in the Hock and Fairhaven, Case, APP, and GNB in the SCC  are two very strong ones.  ESPNBOSTON.com is pretty accurate in their top 25 rankings. I haven't seen the Worcester based teams to comment, but the tournament will tell.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NNDad. Show NNDad's posts

    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to MikeCage's comment:


    This year I have seen games involving Milford, KP, N Attleboro, Taunton, Norwood, Fairhaven, Case, Apponoquet, Weymouth, NN, Feehan, Hopkinton, Grafton, Bridgewater- Raynham, Dracut, Coyle Cassidy, Silver Lake, Bellingham, and Tewksbury.  Some teams I have seen more than once.   Milford, Bridgewater-Raynham(despite a pitifully weak schedule) KP and N Attleboro are extremely strong teams that are head and shoulders above the rest.   Taunton High has one of the best pitchers in the state, who this year alone has out dueled top  two D1 bound pithcers, with a lesser known supporting cast around her and last year lost two heartbreakers against GW's Rico, including a 1 -0 loss in the States. Milford and BR, have 18U Gold travel players at almost every position.  BR has more depth than any other team in the state.  They have kids on their bench and JV, who would be league all stars at other schools or in other conferences. It is tough to compare conferences, but Milford, KP, NA, Franklin and Taunton in the Hock and Fairhaven, Case, APP, and GNB in the SCC  are two very strong ones.  ESPNBOSTON.com is pretty accurate in their top 25 rankings. I haven't seen the Worcester based teams to comment, but the tournament will tell.  

     



    Thanks for the first hand insight Mike.  Man, you have sure seen a lot of softball!

    @ Hawksoftballdad & HMR - I looked for more stat information, and thought on it with a little more seriousness.  0.2 is a scary runs against stat, and its hard to argue that the Hock offense is really any worse than Bay State.  Even taking away a bunch of runs 1.7 runs against is a long way from 0.2.  My line on a Framingham - Milford game would be 3-0.

     
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    As far as I see it with what they have for a pitcher & their depth, anything that isn't a mercy is a W. LOL We only have 1/3 of the Gold level players Milford has and while our pitcher certainly holds her own against most top competition, SS she is not. I do think they would be just as likely to come out with a W against everyone else besides Milford and KP though. Not for nothing, but this is the strongest & largest group of softball players this town has seen in a long time and is not going to see again in the near future. It's a good way for the seniors to go out, knowing they put Framingham softball back on the map. Winning the conference title is huge to them and a testament to how much work they've put into this game over the years.  

    However deep they make it this year, it will probably be as deep as they go for awhile. Next year they will likely still make tourny but may not go as deep, depending on how things shake out with the others in the conference and how much they graduate. We lose 1/2 our infield this year and next year we lose the other half and probably the best CF in the conference. After that, it's going to be a long time before they are up in the standings again. They do have a strong freshman pitcher who will take over very nicely after next year, but unfortunately for her she's not going to have the defense or the bats behind her that the current pitcher has.  One of the biggest young bats down in the lower ranks is most likely not playing for the h.s. after this year so that won't help either. 

     
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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    nice to see some good high school softball conversations. good luck to your respective teams in the tournament.

     

     

     
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    Hey Ali - congrats to your DD on her Northeast 10 Pitcher of the Year! 

     
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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

    As far as I see it with what they have for a pitcher & their depth, anything that isn't a mercy is a W. LOL We only have 1/3 of the Gold level players Milford has and while our pitcher certainly holds her own against most top competition, SS she is not. I do think they would be just as likely to come out with a W against everyone else besides Milford and KP though. Not for nothing, but this is the strongest & largest group of softball players this town has seen in a long time and is not going to see again in the near future. It's a good way for the seniors to go out, knowing they put Framingham softball back on the map. Winning the conference title is huge to them and a testament to how much work they've put into this game over the years.  

    However deep they make it this year, it will probably be as deep as they go for awhile. Next year they will likely still make tourny but may not go as deep, depending on how things shake out with the others in the conference and how much they graduate. We lose 1/2 our infield this year and next year we lose the other half and probably the best CF in the conference. After that, it's going to be a long time before they are up in the standings again. They do have a strong freshman pitcher who will take over very nicely after next year, but unfortunately for her she's not going to have the defense or the bats behind her that the current pitcher has.  One of the biggest young bats down in the lower ranks is most likely not playing for the h.s. after this year so that won't help either. 



    Taunton high defeated King Phillip tonight 9-5 in extra innings.  This gives the Tigers 2 wins over KP and a split with N Attleboro.    DR also defeated Fairhaven in a big SCC matchup.  Two tough recent losses for Fairhaven, tonight and against Apponoquet.  

     

     
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    I think it's awesome that there are so many split series and match ups that can go either way this year. I have a feeling for most of these teams a lot of their starting line ups are upper classmen that are either graduating this year or next though. Not sure if we're going to see as good of a level of competition in h.s. ball in this area again for awhile after this year and next. For me, I'm just excited that the whole area is putting itself on the map for this sport finally. Still a ways to go and not sure if we ever can compete with the PAC 12/SEC areas of the country but it's a heck of a lot better/closer/fun to watch than it ever has been. Good luck to all teams in the post-season!

     
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    @ HMR - I looked at possible tournament brackets at lunch, and, if Framingham and NN win their last games (a bigger if for NN), and things stay about the same, then Framingham will be seeded 2 and North will be 10th, and they could meet in their respective second tournament games, with NN first playing Everett and Framingham playing the winner of Malden and Chelmsford in their first games.  This may well change, since I have no idea what games are remaining for other teams in the regular season, and NN will have to play well to get through its first game.

     
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    We had Everett first last year and beat them, they're beatable, and looking at their record, I don't think they are as strong this year as they were last. 

     

    On another note - for those of you with kids at schools who routinely win their conferences year in and year out this won't be a big deal - but for a school who's last year on a Conference Championship banner is Nineteen Freaking 99, it's huge so I'm going to shout it - WITH NORWOODS LOSS TO WALPOLE YESTERDAY FRAMINGHAM SOFTBALL IS OFFICIALLY THE BAYSTATE CONFERENCE CHAMPION! Woo hoo!!!!! It's all gravy from here. 

     
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    Re: EMASS H.S. Softball 2013

    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

    We had Everett first last year and beat them, they're beatable, and looking at their record, I don't think they are as strong this year as they were last. 

     

    On another note - for those of you with kids at schools who routinely win their conferences year in and year out this won't be a big deal - but for a school who's last year on a Conference Championship banner is Nineteen Freaking 99, it's huge so I'm going to shout it - WITH NORWOODS LOSS TO WALPOLE YESTERDAY FRAMINGHAM SOFTBALL IS OFFICIALLY THE BAYSTATE CONFERENCE CHAMPION! Woo hoo!!!!! It's all gravy from here. 




    Congrats to your girls.  What a great way to go out for all the seniors.  Hopefully NN will get it back next year.

     
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    It really is NN. Especially since the Seniors really were the catalyst that got the younger ones to follow them out into the world of "tournament ball" and step up their game so the h.s. team would be stronger as a whole instead of only having the usual (for FHS) 2-3 players that can play against top competition. They came in as freshman with one major goal - to win the Baystate before they graduated and they did it. Freshman year they won 4 games. Sophomore year they won 9 games, Junior year they won 15 games & made the post season for the 1st time since 2004, and so far in their Senior year they've won 17 and won the Baystate for the 1st time since 1999. I'd say they met their goal and then some. They helped rebuild this program and turn them around from being considered an "automatic win" for everyone else in the Baystate to "oh crap, we have to play them?".

     
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    NN beat Norwood in a game that saw two runs (one on each side) nullified for runners missing 3rd base, and NN working out of bases loaded jams in the 5th and 6th, and a 2 on-no outs jam in the 7th.  The NN girls really performed under pressure.

    However, I spoke too soon on a possible early rematch with Framingham, even with Framingham and NN winning their last games.

    As of today I have D1 North as:

    1 Concord Carlisle 17 1 0.944

    2 Framingham 18 2 0.900

    3 Lexington 18 2 0.900

    4 Boston Latin 16 4 0.800

    5 Central Catholic 15 4 0.789

    6 Peabody 11 4 0.733

    7 Lynn Classical 12 5 0.706

    8 Acton-Boxborough 12 5 0.706

    9 Newton North 14 6 0.700

    10 Everett 13 6 0.684

    11 Methuen 12 6 0.667

    12 Revere 12 6 0.667

    13 Westford Academy 12 8 0.600

    14 Woburn 12 8 0.600

    15 Malden 10 7 0.588

    16 Medford 8 7 0.533

    17 Masconomet 9 7 0.563

    18 Chelmsford 9 9 0.500

    19 Lowell 9 9 0.500

    20 Bishop Fenwick 9 9 0.500

    What I'd really like to see is NN move up to 8th so that we get at least one home game.  This can happen if AB loses its last game to Central Catholic or Lynn Classical loses at least one game in the tournament they are playing this weekend.  I think both these are possible.  It might also help if Peabody dropped both their tournament games this weekend, which is possible but not likely with Beverly (8-11) in the tournament.

    There could be a lot of coin flipping to determine higher seeds.  If CC loses to Reading or St. Mary's this weekend, there will be a three way tie for first, and if Central Catholic beats AB (as I hope) there will also be a tie for 4th/5th.

     
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    I'd rather have them in different brackets with the potential of meeting up at the Regional final to go on to States than in the earlier rounds anyways. 

     
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    Well the brackets are out and it sure is going to be an interesting post season this year! Looks like both North and South in DI is going to see it's top 2 teams facing each other in the quarter finals just to reach the sectional semi final. The stars are aligned for a match up between K/P and Milford and Framingham and Newton North in each of their respective sectional quarter finals. Can easily see a sectional final of CC vs. Fram/NN and BR vs. Milford/KP. Too bad the brackets worked out the way they did though and these teams face each other so early instead of later on when it's down to the final 4. Oh well. Good luck everyone!! 

     
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    The final brackets were a little different than I thought they'd be.  Some how I was thinking that Newton South would be D2.  And, how is Waltham in the tournament with a 0.450 percentage.  In any case NN seems to have a pretty good draw except for the possible drive to Methuen.  One thing is for sure, NN apparently can't win a coin flip, ending up the lowest seed of four teams with a 0.700 record.

    I'm glad to see that Milford is in the D1 South rather than Central so that more good teams get a shot at them before the finals.

    Anyone know whether there are any good teams in the West or Central?

     

     
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    Most of the good teams I know about in Central are D2 so no affect on our tourny. No clue on the DI's. Not sure what Natick was thinking entering DI South either. Going to be a short post season run for them too for sure.

     
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    In response to Hockeymomsrule's comment:

     

    Most of the good teams I know about in Central are D2 so no affect on our tourny. No clue on the DI's. Not sure what Natick was thinking entering DI South either. Going to be a short post season run for them too for sure.

     




    I'm rooting for the Baystate teams in D1 South, particularly Weymouth and Norwood, to sort of gage how NN might do against those teams.  Though, Norwood and Natick are in the toughest section with KP and Milford.

     

     

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