THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]He should be shot and left for dead. Actually, hanging him from a tree like he did to the dogs is just punishment. Second chances......ask that to all the victims of criminals who recommit crimes considering recidivisim is pretty high.
    Posted by 4Adam13[/QUOTE]

    Are you f*ckin serious?! You're condoning shooting, no better yet hanging a black man from a tree because he abused dogs. 

    Classic!
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    I agree it happens here, Paob. I am not dumb. 

    I question why someone who makes millions would not know it is illegal and why it would be deemed as an "aw shucks" moment, considering what it entailed.

    Some here are saying he "paid his time". Well, yeah, he paid down his time because he has plenty of money to do it.

    If you did that, you'd be in jail for 10 years. 

    I mean, we are talking about a full blown operation here. Interstate crime, a dog pound situation, a hub for breeding and using dogs for entertainment, execution set up, etc.

    This really, really creepy stuff to me.  You don't even have to be a dog lover to find this Vick stuff creepy.

    I don't think anyone was saying it's not a problem here. I know for a fact that coat manufacturers hire trappers to hunt animals and the way they are housed is disgusting.  Many die in a cage from disease or are skinned alive.

    It's pretty disturbing.  

    I just see a difference between breeding chickens for people to eat, so they get nutrition v.s. that kind of animal cruelty situation.

    One has a purpose of need, one is for entertainment. 


     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : Here is some insight into the sort of person I am, as you seem to have me pegged as someone who labels the white man as the devil. I worked hard to get to where I am in life. Period! There are obstacles I have to deal with being black, I know that, you obviously don't and for you to suggest otherwise is naive at best. 
    Posted by paob[/QUOTE]

    You seem to be point to race. Funny you are the one talking about it. And don't hand me the slavery bit. My Irish ancestors were beaten, tortured, and held as slaves way before your ancestors were involved in the slave trade. So stop making this a racial issue.

    Vick is a turd. Period. He should never have been let back in to play football.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]Thats Fine, I wasnt directing it at you, and I also said I didnt want to get into religion, cuz Im not a religous person.  I think religion is a business, and no preacher is gonna make money off me, but we all have our own experiences and we can only speak to those experiences and I can tell you that I'm in a good place in my life right now.  As far as being off topic,  I started my post talking about M.Vick playing good football, and Russ went off so dont ask me how it got to this.  Same with Russ turning a thread about Suggs being sour into a "IS RaY lewis Guilty" and should he be playing thread.  I'm just playing along.  I didnt start this mess.  Russ thinks he is the Voice of Reason.  I have not tried to get anyone to go to church here, I dont even go myself....I simply told Russ I would pray for him.
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]


    Stop trying to imply that I am some know-it-all with all the answers when I just form an opinion like eveyrone else does.

    You are just panicking and starting to backpedal because you are starting to look dumb defending Mike Vick and animal torture.

    Think before you speak.  You wonder why I think people like you are insecure?

    You try to paint me as someone who is this superior person or tries to assume that position, but that's not true. Don't paint your insecurities within a discussion as my issue.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    I find it strange that people don't expect a higher standard from someone who makes millions of dollars and represents a product that, apparently, Goodell himself wants upheld.

    The hypocrisy is incredible.  If Vick wasn't deemed to be able to generate revenue in some fashion for Goodell, Vick wouldn't be here.  Period.  So, this isn't about principle, this is about $$, as it always is.

    Curran is on WEEI right now painting the picture very well.

    I don't expect to see pro athletes running around with such disregard for the privilege they have.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ReddsGhost. Show ReddsGhost's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]"and YES! Mike V. SHOULD have to meet and prove to me that he has changed (this includes Big Boy Birthday parties) !. I haven't watched ANY Philly game since they hired him, but that is MY choice, not one delegated by you cause he's redeeming himself by playing great football. " Huh?  What? Calm down there  buddy.  Are you sure you are not Rusty's Ghost?  But in much?  Nobody was talking to you, and since you havent even watched a philly game, WTH should I sit here and explain myself....just leave this discussion cuz IT WAS about him playing well,and you havent watched him play yet...Soooo, thanks for coming, I'll asnwer to you when you get your posts up Newbie.   Nice try Russ!
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, like this is the first name I've ever had here (rolling eyes). Please learn to read as well as spell. This is a PUBLIC forum. You want private? Invite one of the posters over for coffee.
    This WAS not a subject of How well Mike V. is playing. Re-read the title if you're confused.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    Well, I have to agree with Killa on this. His actions were horrendous, and paying a huge fine plus a few months in jail seems lienient to me. Had I been the commisioner I would have given him a 25 year ban. If he could make a team at 55 good luck! But that being said, I do agree he's been a surprize to me on the field. I guess now he's not hanging out with his felon buddies he has time to study film and practice. I don't know that he could ever do enough to "erase" his deeds of the past in my book. If there is a God (I believe, but respect those who do not), then forgiveness is his call. But I still would not want him associated with the Patriots, however good he may play. He's a FA after this season, and if he does get a big payday I would hope he'd set up some sort of foundation for preventing animal cruelty. Perhaps he will. But love him or hate him, he did smoke the Skins last weekend! We'll see how he does against a Giants defense still stinging from the loss to the Boys!
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]You are right and what he did was disgusting and if you really think no player in the NFL thinks Vick is a scum bag POS and just happened to never say anything to the media then I guess that is just how you see it but to me that is just not real. I would bet my life that players were told to keep their mouths shut. Too many players in the NFL and not a single one has taken the other side of the debate and said he is a monster. No way thats by happenstance.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    Not sure about the censorship aspect of your statement or Vick being a monster - But we've gone over that already. DeMaurice Smith and Kevin Mawae are about as outspoken they come. 

     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : So all of this is just to state that dog fighting is prevalent? That was your point? What does the World Wide Dog Fighting league ( the WWDF) and it's prevalence have to do with Vick adopting a LIFESTYLE even though he KNEW he had MILLIONS to lose? And stop with the "I'm black" and offended comments. It wasn't stupid to include dog fighting, slavery , drug use, child slavery etc because they are ALL worldwide. Your Great-great-great Grandpappy MAY have been a slave but fairly sure YOU weren't!
    Posted by ReddsGhost[/QUOTE]

    He adopted that lifestyle because he was stupid and made a dumb decision. The gov't doesn't like it when it's citizens lie to them in court. As for my "great grand pappy being a slave but you're fairly sure I'm not", pretty much tells me what hue you are.

     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    I am a firm believer in second chances if the person is truely sorry for what he/she did.  However the thing is how do we know if a person is sorry for the crimes he/she committed or if they are just saying all the right things to appease the public.  Fact is we will never know if Vick is sorry for what he did.  The higher power is the only one who will know for sure.  With that being said Vick can try and prove to people that he really gets it by charity work and putting in effort to make people aware of animal abuse and helping to end it.  We've all made mistakes in our lives (some worse than others) but it's how you rise above and learn from those mistakes and what you make of yourself afterwards.  It's all up to Vick how he handles it.  By playing good football it doesn't atone for what he did.  It's what he does outside of football as a man.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ReddsGhost. Show ReddsGhost's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : He adopted that lifestyle because he was stupid and made a dumb decision. The gov't doesn't like it when it's citizens lie to them in court. As for my "great grand pappy being a slave but you're fairly sure I'm not", pretty much tells me what hue you are.
    Posted by paob[/QUOTE]

    You're mistaken. Running a red light when a policeman is behind you is a dumb decision. Vick led a LIFESTYLE! In other words he made THOUSANDS of dumb decisions! Buy a piece of property for illegal dogfighting? Dumb decision (hereafter DD). Purchasing a dog? DD. Purchasing another dog? DD. Showing up at a dogfight? DD. Showing up at another one tomorrow? DD. Placing a bet of them? DD. Traveling to variouys arena's to fight them? DD. Allowing your cousin to deal drugs out of the kennels that held dogs? DD.
    See, he didn't make a A dumb decisions. He made a series of multiple bad decisions, in the thousands of DD !
    So, what "hue" am I? The type of hue that regrets some of our countries actions from HUNDREDS of years ago but realize that no US citizen TODAY is a slave? The type of hue that tires of hearing "my ancestors were slaves" as an excuse to not have to strive as hard as Non-slavery descendants? I really don't re-call hearing any whites complaining of their ancestors being held in slavery, yet they were! By the thousands! But we realize that the past is the past, hitch up our pants and carry on rather than maintain a bitter attitude simply because of something that happened centuries ago.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]Hey Russ, You do know that several other NFL players attended these "dog fights" and not only condoned it, but they placed wagers on them.  Some of these might even be your favorite players.  You have only one guy to blame cuz he didnt drag a bunch of other people into it.  Some would call that a noble act.  Let you tell it, he was doing something that was isolated only to him and his friends...like the above poster said, this shyt happens evrywhere, but Vick was a scapegoat.  He did his time while others involved enjoyed the good life.  Being in Jail is an adverse situation.  "Vick can get his second chance somewhere else."  You dont have to give him a second chance, he has already been allowed to play again.  Oh, you thought YOU were the Commish?  Does Mike Vick have to meet with you and explain himself?
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    "Hey Russ, You do know that several other NFL players attended these "dog fights" and not only condoned it, but they placed wagers on them."

    You realize that by making krap up it weakens your arguement right? WHAT NFL players attended and bet along with Vick? Just curious cause I didn't see any other NFL player get convicted and we all know noone would make krap up to support their arguement.
    and YES! Mike V. SHOULD have to meet and prove to me that he has changed (this includes Big Boy Birthday parties) !. I haven't watched ANY Philly game since they hired him, but that is MY choice, not one delegated by you cause he's redeeming himself by playing great football.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    Vick was quite rich.  He had dogs torture each other, and so he got 21 months in prison during the prime time of his career, and then he filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  I think the guy got slammed and he's not going to torture dogs ever again.  Justice seems to have worked reasonably well in this case.

    With Favre, let's see, it's alleged that he gave an underage woman alcohol, but there were roofies in the drink and then he and/or his manservant dragged her off and the QB sexually assaulted her.  So he got a six game suspension, but that was too harsh so he only got four games.  '< sarcasm />Justice seems to have worked reasonably well in this case.  '< / sarcasm>
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]I live among (surrounded by, literally) the Amish.  They pen dogs up and breed them till dead.  The pens are raised, with chain link floors, so the dogs get an area about 2.5 feet wide by 5 feet long to live their lives in.  They have to walk on the chain link, because its easier than cleaning the cages to have it there and let the fecal matter fall to the ground where you can shovel it up.  Tell them they are being cruel, they will hear none of it.  They believe animals are lesser beings.  They believe they have dominion over them.  Different people believe different things.  I'm WAY WAY more concerned about Ben trapping women than Vick.  I don't like what he did, but he went to jail, and now sees the error of his ways.  He didn't grow up in a world that valued animals, get it.
    Posted by TroyBrown80[/QUOTE]


    there you go...another version of what i was trying to say.

    and yes, i would be harder on people who hurt other people...physically or psychologically...regardless of race, nationality, belief (so long as their belief has nothing to do with hurting people)
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

      He's got scary talent.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    bb and killa, ur just amazing in ur narrowness. so lets kick out roethlisberger and vick and everyone else not as perfect as u guys... yep marketing the league and selling jerseys will be a lot better without them. hypocrisy? low IQ? come on now... y take cheap shots? u think only folks with ur narrow views are intelligent? vick and big ben are great for the LEAGUE. i could care less about vick as a person, i like him for what he does on the football. he right now is the BEST qb in football and is the MVP if he keeps it up. if he wins the super bowl, could be the greatest redemption in sports history. that is something to celebrate and goodell should be PROUD! vik could have given up or gone the tyson route but he has stuck with it.. its a great story. u would have kicked ray lewis out of the league too right? how has that turned out? these are great stories!takes more of a man and IQ to madmit mistakes and come back again then to just be "perfect" standing in judgment of all! would be great to c the pats play the phils in the SB again!
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]Im narrow minded? Really? You are sitting here expecting everyone to fall under the same "god is the only judge" frame of mind and I am narrow minded? Seriously? I didnt say you had a low IQ so I will assume thats directed at Rusty, I dont think cause you are a god fearing man that you have a low IQ I simply dont agree with you and the fact that you expect everyone to believe as you do just shows how narrow minded YOU ARE not the other way around. Not everyone believes in forgiveness and that is my right and anyone elses for that matter. This is why I say leave your beliefs at the door cause i dont care to talk about how you believe in god and I dont or whatever that shouldnt ever be brought into it. If anyone is being "narrow minded" its you. And I am not perfect that is for sure but i have never gotten my kicks *raping women or torturing defenseless animals for fun. So I would say that puts me miles ahead of Vick and Big Ben.
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]
    killa just for the record, i am so not a jesus freak. my god does not write books. i do not believe one needs a jesus or any one else to connect themselves to a god. i accept atheists' positions as well as nontheistic godists' views,. so please stop the jesus thing with me. compassion and empathy are necessary human pragmatic values in my view. we all benefit from a bigger view when it comes to each s to each other. to paraphrase the great MLK, "i have a dream, that one day little black boys and girls and little white girls and boys wil one day get to the same values point; i may not get there with you but it will happen". as a percentage of the population, i would expect the demographic group most oppressed and dehumanized historically to have the toughest time reaching those higher social standards. heck, look at the values between the north and south in general? it takes time! let's give it some generational time. if a vick and a tiger have such tough time dealing with those standards, how tough is it for the average unknown brotha on the street or bottom feeder player? it takes time.

    so many here prayed for vick's demise, wanted him to stink and even get injured.. yet he so far has triumphed despite your prayers and negativities. good luck to him thus far! he is now making a real contribution to society via football.. hope he gets paid, gets the glory again and the opportunity to lose to my pats in the SB!

    so many
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]all this issue about killing dogs being horrible and he should never be given a second chance is bs. it's illegal so he did time for it per the penal code. that's it. if you are judging him because you think what he did is wrong from a values perspective, then you're wrong. dogs get eaten in other cultures. on the flipside, if that's wrong then hunting should be wrong too. what's the difference between killing dogs and shooting animals for fun (hunting)? why is it wrong to kill dogs and not wrong to kill deer or duck or bear or even a lion for the thrill of it?
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Who said he was "eating dogs"?

    He was TORTURING dogs for entertainment purposes, it's illegal and so was his operation.

    May I ask why you feel a need to spin this as a way to defend something so sick?

    Do you torture dogs for fun too?
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : Wow did you just compare Ali and Vick, seriously? One fought for equal rights and fought against a war he found unjust. The other Tortured helpless animals for fun and sport. There is no comparison and you can't justify it because he's a great athlete regardless if he won 5 SB's in a row or has never even been to one. Seriously man don't compare what Ali did to what Vick did you're disgracing Ali
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]again, i do not defend what vik did. i would prefer the cause ali took on than vik's.. point i was making very clearly is the REACTION of the public (more bluntly, MOST who happen to be white), most who happen to be blak supported ali for same reason most (including most nfl players) support vick. they share a similar cultural breeding and experiential understanding of america, for better or worse. as whites, we must grasp that rather than just pushing  our values, standards, history and expectations on others esp historically power minority groups!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    I also heard on Mike and Mike where they compared Pete Rose's gambling addiction and that disresecdting baseball as an equivalent.  Normally, they are two pretty even keeled people, but that is flat out embarrassing. 

    One is clearly not intentional, while the other is not only intentional, it's diabolical in some fashion.

    I wonder if they realize how stupid that sounds.

    What are people smoking here?

    I sometimes wonder if they have forgotten what Vick was involved in.  And the comment "he served his time", drives me nuts.

    He had his time reduced because of money and who he is with people able to still make money off him when he gets out.

    Did OJ Simpson "do his time", too?  When he gets out will people say "he did his time", let him roam the sidelines in his leather gloves with sideline updates for NBC?

    This is not: "Hi, I made a mistake."

    This is:  "Hi, I have a really creepy soul and had this addiction to torturing dogs in my spare time. If I hadn't of gotten caught, I'd still be making million off my faux QBing skills and killing dogs with my homies."

    The latter is bordering on sociopath for crying out loud.  Jeffrey Dahmer tortured animals for fun too.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]I haven't read every thread but I wonder if the Eagles had aquired Ray Lewis instead of Vick would Philly fans have been less hostile? Lewis was possibly involved in a murder of a human being. I don't think there would have been nearly as much controversy. Which is worse?
    Posted by jaytf25[/QUOTE]

    If Lewis were convicted, there's no way in hE ll he'd be playing.  Both are despicable!  You may think it's a lessor crime but most sociopaths start out hurting animals.  They also don't change because they're void of conscience.
     

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