THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]Your not sure he is monster? Are you f*cking kidding me? What kind of man takes a dogs by its throat and holds it head under water drowning it till its dead for fun? Seriously people i know dogs are not people but to murder one for fun how does that make him anything but a monster?
    Posted by MVPkilla4life[/QUOTE]

    No I'm not kidding you. My interpretation of a monster is someone who would rape women and children. Someone who would cut off a child's arm into so many pieces it resembled slices of bread. Someone who would cut off a women's breasts so that she couldn't feed her infant child. Someone who would blow up a federal building with women and children inside. Someone who would stab another human being so many times the doctor wouldn't be able to plug the holes. Someone who would hack a fellow man to pieces because they support another political party or they're from a different tribe. Graphic examples I know, but they are real.
    We can go back and forth on Vick and his worth as a human being - or we can agree to disagree.

    Enjoy the game and have a good weekend.

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : You seem to be point to race. Funny you are the one talking about it. And don't hand me the slavery bit. My Irish ancestors were beaten, tortured, and held as slaves way before your ancestors were involved in the slave trade. So stop making this a racial issue. Vick is a turd. Period. He should never have been let back in to play football.
    Posted by 4Adam13[/QUOTE]

    I want to make this a racial issue? I was very clear in what I said.

    Does this sound familiar: "He should be shot and left for dead. Actually, hanging him from a tree like he did to the dogs is just punishment. Second chances...ask that to all the victims of criminals who recommit crimes considering recidivism is pretty high."

    Those are your words 4Adam13. Your words! YOU want to hang a black man from a tree. You felt comfortable going to Boston dot com in this day and age and posting that for all the world to see. I've disagreed with a fair amount of people here, but no one has crossed that line. 

     









     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    In Response to THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]anyone else think he is on the right track and that sometimes second chances even for the most flawed amongst us could be a good thing esp if they can throw the ball, run and evade as he can. last sunday was simply vintage. there is no other like vik the quik! none! seems to be making better decisions, knows the offense. even more than a brady, i have not seen an entire team and coachg staff (for both teams) just feed off the life and energy of a particular player in utter shock and awe. was simply amazing. believe he can keep it coming for his judgment has gotten better and his fitness is back. how soon before mike vick jerseys dominate the landscape again and he is doing commercials and in the playoffs AGAIN? salvation is the american way! he certainly isnt DOGGING it!
    Posted by KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    Dog fighting wasn't outlawed in America until 1976 and was even sponsored nationally by the kennel association, but it's history is still prevalent in the US, especially Latin America and world wide. It's not just a cultural, read: black thing like some of you hint at, it's practiced by all colors, net worth and nationalities.

    I'm not an apologist for Vick, there are extenuating circumstances for what I will forgive. He's paid his debt to society, was given an opportunity to work again and from all appearances seems determined to redeem himself. One final note, if there is any doubt as to how prevalent dog fighting is in the US or worldwide take a look at the film Amores Perros!
    Don't say I didn't warn you.

     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]You could not be more ignorant Russ.  You talk about black people being hypocritical about the fact they were slaves and yet see no problem with torturing dogs.  Ok, first off, if you dont know who is black, white, etc, than what, and who the fudge ARE you talking about? Secondly, IF I was an ancestor of a race that was enslaved by the same country that locked someone up for torturing dogs, I would be upset about the white people who got off scott free for raping and killing hundreds of innocent black people. Where do you get this fudged up Logic?  Yes, just be happy you had nice parents who raised you in a loving environment and you never had to face adversity like you said. 
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    Who am I talking about? 

    Mike Vick, Einstein.

    Holy christ.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : i do not see what he did as any worse than hunting for entertainment, from a right or wrong perspective. society's acceptance of hunting while rejecting what he did is inconsistent, borderline hypocritical. Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    I do my hunting at the grocery store, so there's some inherent hypcrisy in what I'm about to say, but if you can't see the difference between stalking animals in the wild -- where at least they have the defenses natural selection (or God, if you prefer) gave them -- and breeding animals for the express purpose of torturing them, I would suggest that you're observing this question through a deeply tinted lens.


     
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    I live among (surrounded by, literally) the Amish.  They pen dogs up and breed them till dead.  The pens are raised, with chain link floors, so the dogs get an area about 2.5 feet wide by 5 feet long to live their lives in.  They have to walk on the chain link, because its easier than cleaning the cages to have it there and let the fecal matter fall to the ground where you can shovel it up.  Tell them they are being cruel, they will hear none of it.  They believe animals are lesser beings.  They believe they have dominion over them.  Different people believe different things.  I'm WAY WAY more concerned about Ben trapping women than Vick.  I don't like what he did, but he went to jail, and now sees the error of his ways.  He didn't grow up in a world that valued animals, get it.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : dude, it is called PERSPECTIVE! how you and others can not independently make the sensitivity call that most blaks will take great offense at anything connnecting ANY blak man to a lynching is beyond me. it may not qualify as RACIST but it is certainlY unnecessarily RACIAL!
    Posted by KOOLAID-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]

    See, I love how when someone dislikes what someone else has to say, they bring in the race card. I said nothing about race and if your perspective is that this is a racial comment or issue, then you my friend, are the one with the racial issue. Not me. Don't point the finger at me in hopes of making your point.  Michael Vick hung dogs. He should get a taste of his own torture. Maybe then he'd realized it was wrong. Oh wait, maybe an "eye for eye" isn't what the old testament really meant.
     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]He should be shot and left for dead. Actually, hanging him from a tree like he did to the dogs is just punishment. Second chances......ask that to all the victims of criminals who recommit crimes considering recidivisim is pretty high.
    Posted by 4Adam13[/QUOTE]dude, it is called PERSPECTIVE! how you and others can not independently make the sensitivity call that most blaks will take great offense at anything connnecting ANY blak man to a lynching is beyond me. it may not qualify as RACIST but it is certainlY unnecessarily RACIAL!
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

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    Now you are going with the "you think you are the commish" approach to back away from this?

    Please stop.  You and Kool Aid Contrarian boy are making fools of yourself.

    This is about money.  Vick is allowed back in and Rapelisturd has tea with Goodell and gets his sentence reduced.

    Wake up.


     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    redd, i mIn Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : You're mistaken. Running a red light when a policeman is behind you is a dumb decision. Vick led a LIFESTYLE! In other words he made THOUSANDS of dumb decisions! Buy a piece of property for illegal dogfighting? Dumb decision (hereafter DD). Purchasing a dog? DD. Purchasing another dog? DD. Showing up at a dogfight? DD. Showing up at another one tomorrow? DD. Placing a bet of them? DD. Traveling to variouys arena's to fight them? DD. Allowing your cousin tt admito deal drugs out of the kennels that held dogs? DD. See, he didn't make a A dumusb decisions. He made a series of multiple bad decisions, in the thousands of DD ! So, what "hue" am I? The type of hue that regrets some of our countries actions from HUNDREDS of years ago but realize that no US citizen TODAY is a slave? The type of hue that tires of hearing "my ancestors were slaves" as an excuse to not have to strive as hard as Non-slavery descendants? I really don't re-call hearing any whites complaining of their ancestors being held in slavery, yet they were! By the thousands! But we realize that the past is the past, hitch up our pants and carry on rather than maintain a bitter attitude simply because of something that happened centuries ago.
    Posted by ReddsGhost[/QUOTE] redd, i must admit you and paob are kind of going where i hoped the thread would include when i originally posted. just keep being respectful even as you disagree. i do not agree with your view but i am learning more from your perspective. overall, my focus was to be directly about his FOOTBALL redemption, as i also see the situation of big ben. about them  making better decisions in the now both on and off the field so we all get to enjoy the showcasing of their talents and not distracted by all the PR distractions of their controversial off-field dynamics.

    in vick's case, there is a racial ancestral dynamic mr. redd. you cant see that for you have clearly benefited from generational white male privileges to the point where you cant just see the long term consequences. like it or not, the choices of your great grand daddy is having major positive dividends for ya. likely if he came to this country, he didnt come in chains and was not relegated to a socially inferior dawg culture. he was able to own a house and buy property (which included blacks at the time), get educated, move up in social staus and lifestyle and easily make his forebears dream in that direction. if black, you simply were not afforded such opportunitiies. heck, the great bill russell spells it out everyday. he was not able to live in certain neighborhoods which impacted how high his property was able to accrue in value even in comparison to absolute white scrubs on his team and the league. he was not able to tap into his home equity to easily send his kids to the first colleges of their choice and so on. same with a colin powell in comparison to a rumsfeld and his peers. he may have the same income as his peers but because they enjoy the multiple-generational privileges of white-male freedom and economic stature, they are able to enjoy far superior lifestyles and set up their kids and future generations in much better ways. ditto with a tiger woods and others. your high value standards are unfortunately still an IDEAL and distant reality for many blacks and power racial minorities. you can afford those values, they still cant in spite of how big their self-earned big accounts may be. in a few generations, their great grand kids will easily be able to share your multi-generational success values as a norm. you cant just dismiss history because its inconvenient for ya publically.

    you know in private, with your wife and kids, that you talk about your history without the inconveniences of slavery. per example, you dont have to trace your name history via the perspective of immediate lineage relatives being owned and being constitutionally a percentage of a human with no voting stake or rights within the country they are born into.

    redd, its funny how you and so many of my white brethren, can find it so easy to bond and rightfully empathize with dogs, hamsters and lobsters but simply cant bring yourself to do so with your power minority fellow citizens and HUMANS! in conclusion, vick's cruelty to animals should be condemned and called out, but yep his REDEMPTION thus far proves that there are so many black men and other power-minorities who could be reached with such structured setups that mr. vick has benefited him. kudos to the goodells and tony dungys of the world... heck, even the bill belichicks.. he does lots of work quietly with BLACK prisoners via jim brown's group in his spare time. and yep, our great belichick is an open private liberal and DEMOCRAT! not that republicans and conservatives cant reach the same conclusions. george and laura bush per example when not forced to demonize power minorities for their political minions also seem to get it. so to redd and others like him, spread your compassion and empathy to more of your fellow HUMANS and their HISTORIES in this nation, not to just conveniently project them to dogs, lobsters and so on!.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    Michael Vick is a very talented football player, but let's not make this a comeback story. John Lester coming back from cancer, Teddi Bruschi playing again, after suffering from a stroke, now those are the guys that inspire people and our great stories.

     
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    Fact is, I've never committed a felony or a misdemeanor in my life. I'm sure more people on these boards haven't as well. Wonder why we didn't? We grew up in the same country, teaching the same values, teaching the same morals, as Michael Vick yet he deserves a second chance because he didn't understand the rules? 

    And to all you people who justify second chances, what would you think of letting Sexual Predators teach your children. Aren't they people too? Don't they deserve second chances? How about the sexual predator be your child's pediatrician. They deserve second chances, right?

    the above words are from 4ADAM. i will take some time with finality address certain loose ends from this thread and move on.  dude, i am glad you are perfect and came from a more perfect home and upbringing than many of your fellow power minority citizens.. the uniqueness of this country is that people get second chances from most things, despite what you may desire. the pedo will not and should not be able to practice with kids so again, u r way out of line. this is about the LAW and those in charge of instating them. roger goodell is no shrinking violet and has the FACTS and yet he is impressed with what vick has done. yep, one DUI and one should never drive again. eye for an eye. one of anything and thats it... u kidding me? let he who is without sin cast the first stone.. do you remember that biblical verse? u come across like these loudmouth, pious anti-gay political types who protest way too much, only to be discovered gayinnng it up in private, having 3somes and so on. 

    guess what it really comes down to is that for most people, as personally despicable as it may be, harming a non-human is rightfully not equated to doing the same to an actual human... PETA be damned! if vick was a regular joe schmo, no way he gets that jail sentence... period! he has paid the BIGGEST price of any professional athlete in the history of the planet for a crime at that level or for a non-murdering offense. lost over 100 mil, went to prison, bankruptcy.. yep, lets add on that he never can play a sport that has absolutely nothing to do directly with his crime... are you people serious? enough is really enough!

    comparing him to ray lewis is illogical for vick was not accused of being complicit in the murder of another HUMAN! got it? dogs are LESSER, although they are one of god's creatures, if one wants to put a sacred spin on it. common sensical people clearly rank other beings everyday from all over the world, based on the dietary and scapegoating choices we make everyday. many eat rats, do you? some eat cats and dogs, do you? also, even with a conviction, ray lewis in his prime WOULD have been given a second chance had he shown remorse and committed as vick did to new course of life. the only exception would have been OJ had he been found guilty in the first trial. OJ would have been given a rightful second chance after the FIRST trial for he was found INNOCENT in the court of law. if he was in his prime, i and i am certain a belichick if he needed those skills, would have SIGNED him. dont kid yourself and get off the high horse! 

    lastly, comparing vick's childhood morals to yours is illogical. you should compare it to those in his immediate circle. in same way those who are emotionally attached to the confederate flag (but aren't necessarily racist) often do so because that is a major part of their familial and geographic heritage, like hitler's kids for instance connecting non-judgmentally to his personal legacy, a vick like many from his poor south (blak and white) also do so because of their environment. not all, but statistically enough to form a NORM group. like it or not, morality is largely expedient and RELATIVE. cannibalism is perfectly normal and even moral in a cannibalistic country and environment despite how you or i may rile against it. heck it may even be legal in some places in some instances. vick doing what he did is extreme for his status in overall society (where he should have made a strategic calculation that includes those of your ilk) but is perfectly logical when viewed within the myopia of his immediate background. is what it is. not condoning it, just stating facts my friend.

    paob and seattle pat have it right, hope more of you could grasp their overall tone. 44, i now do not believe you are fundamentally a racist or that you were even consciously being racial in your vick lynching attitude. again, as a product of YOUR environment and upbringing, i unfortunately would expect nothing less in terms of genuine empathy and social sensitivity in connecting the dots from others' perspective. yep, irish slavery is on the same par as american black slavery? u kidding me? blacks also owned slaves at one point all over the world and also in early colonial America when the irish and other whites were sometimes a part of the slave population and ALL were able to enjoy an eventual path to FREEDOMSHIP. so what? that form of slavery clearly got trumped by the early 17th century in favor of an extreme, most brutal form that clearly did not involve your or my people in any major way as the actual slaves. that was limited almost exclusively by LAW and norms to BLACKS and sometimes native americans... got it? do not bring your weak koolaid to this vodka party! 

    had you hung with any non-whites on a close collective level, no way you would have the default insensitivity to race as you clearly do. doesnt make you a bad guy for you still speak and write for the majority of whites i know and that exist on both the left and right in this country. again, you are a product of your environment and i have learned a lot from our dialogue. because i have been close with some jews for instance, it would instinctively get me NOT to write that david stern or a jewish athlete, banker or whoever it may be, should be gassed or put in a gas chamber... got it? call it sensitivity consciousness! i'm done... GO PATS!
     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]Oh and lastly, How on earth does me saying people deserve a second chance and only GOD should judge people equate to me condoning dogs being killed?
    Posted by patsfan76[/QUOTE]

    Oh my word.  Now you are bringing "god' into this kind of thing?  Let's stick to wat happens right here on earth, father.

    Vick can get his second chance somewhere else.  You have some real critical thinking developmental issues.






     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    Valtrex
     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : Although I don't think Vick should be killed for what he did I also don't believe he should be allowed to make millions playing football again. However, what I think adam was saying is an eye for an eye type of deal. Vick hanged dogs from trees and shot them among other methods to kill them. It has nothing to do with race though I understand that coindication of hanging a black man from a tree I don't think he meant it in that way. It might not be easy to understand but racism isn't everywhere, sometimes it's just someone not seeing how the dots could connect not how they were meant to connect
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I disagree with some of your post, but I appreciate the thoughtful response.

     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?


    all this issue about killing dogs being horrible and he should never be given a second chance is bs. it's illegal so he did time for it per the penal code. that's it.

    if you are judging him because you think what he did is wrong from a values perspective, then you're wrong. dogs get eaten in other cultures.

    on the flipside, if that's wrong then hunting should be wrong too. what's the difference between killing dogs and shooting animals for fun (hunting)? why is it wrong to kill dogs and not wrong to kill deer or duck or bear or even a lion for the thrill of it?
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    And to all you people who justify second chances, what would you think of letting Sexual Predators teach your children. Aren't they people too? Don't they deserve second chances? How about the sexual predator be your child's pediatrician. They deserve second chances, right?

    And to those that justify dog fighting and TORTURE cause it happens in other countries, so doesn't incest. So doesn't rape. Does that make it right? This is America. If you don't like our way of life, GET THE HELL OUT.

    And don't hand me the "you can't compare sexual offenses with dog fighting" routine either. Some of you have been making the excuse that he paid his price and deserves a second chance. Ok, so lets let the sexual offender work in day care where your child gets individual attention from him or her.

    You'd change your attitude in a minute and you know it. Hypocrits.

    Fact is, I've never committed a felony or a misdemeanor in my life. I'm sure more people on these boards haven't as well. Wonder why we didn't? We grew up in the same country, teaching the same values, teaching the same morals, as Michael Vick yet he deserves a second chance because he didn't understand the rules?

    It's not a race issue. It's a right and wrong issue.

    Freaking tools.
     
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    Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?

    Redeem himself??!?!?! HOW has he redeemed himself? By playing good football?? Just few months back he was involved in a shooting at his Birthday party ( kind'a old for a Bday party, an adu8lt mature man having a Bday party, wait, did I say Mature?). And for all the Vick supporters, Yes I know the authorities have said he wasn't "involved" but we all know better. THREE minutes after having cake shoved in his face, chatting with his brother Marcus and THEN after Mike was gone for a total of THREE minutes, the cake in the face smasher was shot ( also the one who rolloed on Mike).
    Redeemed? Sure, he hasn't done anything illegal this week (yet) AND he played a great game!!
     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK? : So, what's your point? That dogfighting is prevalent? So was slavery at one time. So are drugs today. Because they are prevalent we should condone them?
    Posted by ReddsGhost[/QUOTE]

    What's my point? I have to spell it out for you, ok...Dog fighting and drug use in society are prevalent, period it's done everywhere and anywhere. I'm black and for you to even mention slavery in a discussion with dog fighting is offensive and stupid. Did I drop any hints that I condoned Vick's actions, or couldn't you see that in my post either.

     
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    Exactly. A swift backpedal by SeattlePat.

    I am just trying to figure out why people jump through hoops to praise Vick. He's a phony and an idiot.


     
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    In Response to Re: THOUGHTS ON THE REDEMPTION OF MICHAEL VICK.... ON RIGHT TRACK?:
    [QUOTE]I still think this is a mirage with a guy playing over his head and stand by it.  I'll also admit he's been playing great, but I think it's going to fade down the stretch as well. He did this in 2004 as well. Washington is a mess right now and their pass D is horrendous, which I am not sure why considering they have some decent talent there with Landry and then two good CBs.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]
    Vick would have put 40+ on anybody last night. Even your Pats. He's finally getting it and it's trouble for the rest of the league.
     

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