12 men on field RULE CHANGE

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    They need to adjust this rule to have time elapsed on the play put back on the clock, if not all the time at least in final 2:00 minutes of the half.

    The Giants are happy to give up 5 yards in that situation for :10 off the clock and the benefit of having an extra defender on that play. 

    Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    How about we just don't screw up the substitutions
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]They need to adjust this rule to have time elapsed on the play put back on the clock, if not all the time at least in final 2:00 minutes of the half. The Giants are happy to give up 5 yards in that situation for :10 off the clock and the benefit of having an extra defender on that play.  Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Agree.

    Put 12 guys on the field on purpose in that situation.  I think the Jints did that.  An extra defender, you lose 5 yeards, and you kill clock.

    I suppose if Brady had seen that he could have spiked the ball and got 5 yards for 1 second.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    If the offense can be called for too many players on the field when they "huddle", then if the D has too many at the same time the offense huddles, they should get called immediately too!  Once an offense huddles up, the players on the field are to be considered active for that play.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    I don't think there will be a rule change...yet. 

    I don't think it was intentional by the Giants.  However, given the way it helped the Giants, I anticipate teams (Belichick won't forget this) will employ this as a potential strategy in the future. 

    If that actually happens, then you will see the NFL act. 

    As it currently stands, not unlike offsides, the offense gets the opportunity to run their play, which is not a negative.  If they run a successful one, then the penalty is declined. 

    If it was intentional, then without other rules, its not unlike in basketball when a team trails by 3 in the final seconds of the game and the defense fouls to keep the trailing team from shooting a 3-pointer and tying the game.  Or, the leading team has fouls to give and they foul before a shot is taken to take time off the clock and make the trailing team reset their offense with an out of bounds play and less time left. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    Its essentially a free play. Had they gotten considerable yardage, they couldve just declined the 12 men penalty.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]Its essentially a free play. Had they gotten considerable yardage, they couldve just declined the 12 men penalty.
    Posted by dapats1281[/QUOTE]
    That was a LOUSY free play!  Didn't come close to doing anything!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : That was a LOUSY free play!  Didn't come close to doing anything!
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    It is still a free play if the QB recognizes the flag. Most see it on defensive encroachment. Maybe they change the rule that the offense gets to keep the play minus the time o course or they get the penalty as a dead ball foul and the clock goes back to preplay time. I think the competition committee might find that to be too favorable to the offense though.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    They could just blow the play dead like when offsides pass rusher who gets a free path to the QB.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    Umm, I believe there are three different penalties being discussed here.

    Too many men on the field is called when a defensive player fails to get off the field, but does not participate in the play (so his being on the field had no bearing on the play). That was called on Tuck running off the field.

    There is a seperate penalty (Illegal Participation) for actually running a play with all 12 guys playing defense. That is a 15 yard penalty. If you were intentionally running 12 guys out there, you would be getting that. I believe there would be no play so the time would return to the clock.

    The penalty on the offense for too many men in the huddle, is Illegal Subsitution and that was added to keep offenses from trying to discuss what package of player were in the game and run off on TE vs a WR or RB at the last second to catch the defense not ready.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]If the offense can be called for too many players on the field when they "huddle", then if the D has too many at the same time the offense huddles, they should get called immediately too!  Once an offense huddles up, the players on the field are to be considered active for that play.
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    A lot of substitutions on defense happen when the offense is huddling up. Maybe change it to when the offense is set?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : A lot of substitutions on defense happen when the offense is huddling up. Maybe change it to when the offense is set?
    Posted by kevin13130[/QUOTE]

    Are we as Patriots fans complaining for more rule changes to favor the offense... My how times have changed. There are no penalties that lead to time being put back on the clock. That only happens if there was no play. If it were defensive holding or offsides or even roughing the passer, the time still would have come off the clock. I do not think that is something that needs a rule change. Tuck trying to run off the field did not affect the play at all, the Patriots could have gained 40 yards and if they waved off the play and replaced it with a 5-yard penalty we would be screaming for the opposite rule change!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]They need to adjust this rule to have time elapsed on the play put back on the clock, if not all the time at least in final 2:00 minutes of the half. The Giants are happy to give up 5 yards in that situation for :10 off the clock and the benefit of having an extra defender on that play.  Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]
    That's a great point.Maybe it should be a penalty and put the time back on the clock from when it was snapped.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : That's a great point.Maybe it should be a penalty and put the time back on the clock from when it was snapped.
    Posted by mrmojo1120[/QUOTE]

    If they try to run a defense with 12-men (as opposed to some one trying to run off the field) that is a 15-yard penalty. There is no penalty that puts time back on the clock unless it is a penalty that negates the play altogether. That is not how the NFL works!!!

    Once again, Tuck running of the field had zero affect on that play. If the Patriots had gained yardage and had it called back because of the penalty, we would be complaining the other way. You cannot have it all, you get to run the play and see what happens, you get the penalty yards, and you get to keep the time on the clock.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    The rule should be changed to having the time put back on the clock. An infraction of the rules should never be beneficial to the team commiting the violation. That is what I hate about basketball.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]The rule should be changed to having the time put back on the clock. An infraction of the rules should never be beneficial to the team commiting the violation. That is what I hate about basketball.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    For the one millionth time. How was that play beneficially to the Giants? Tuck was not involved in the play. The Patriots could have score a TD on that play. If it got called back because a guy running of the field was a "non-play" we would have the opposite complaint.  Since Tuck was not involved in the play, they got five yards on an incomplete pass.

    This thread is sour grapes. It had no effect on the outcome of the game.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CAPITALIST_AVENGER. Show CAPITALIST_AVENGER's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]They need to adjust this rule to have time elapsed on the play put back on the clock, if not all the time at least in final 2:00 minutes of the half. The Giants are happy to give up 5 yards in that situation for :10 off the clock and the benefit of having an extra defender on that play.  Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]JUST heard it on mike and mike archive. i mean y send 12 men, buddy ryan used to send up to 15 in that situation. y not do it back to back? last 2 minutES, absolutely.. should be like with faking injury or challenges in terms of an exceptn
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : For the one millionth time. How was that play beneficially to the Giants? Tuck was not involved in the play. The Patriots could have score a TD on that play. If it got called back because a guy running of the field was a "non-play" we would have the opposite complaint.  Since Tuck was not involved in the play, they got five yards on an incomplete pass. This thread is sour grapes. It had no effect on the outcome of the game.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]
    d RULE CHANGE : For the one millionth time. How was that play beneficially to the Giants.        It was beneficial to the Giants because the all important seconds went off the clock. The clock is re-set on other occasions , why not here?  The fact that Tuck was not involved in the play is not relevant to the rule. What if he was involved in the play?  Would you put the time back then?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 19andNo. Show 19andNo's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : JUST heard it on mike and mike archive. i mean y send 12 men, buddy ryan used to send up to 15 in that situation. y not do it back to back? last 2 minutES, absolutely.. should be like with faking injury or challenges in terms of an exceptn
    Posted by CAPITALIST_AVENGER[/QUOTE]

    Then Brady needs to learn how to count beyond 11 and then spike the ball all the way down the field 5 yards at a time.  If you can't count, don't complain.  Maybe the genius BB should work on that instead of trying to get another lame rule passed courtesy of the Patriots.  They are changing this whole game thanks to Goodell and Kraft's lovefest. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    For the rule change....If you decline the penalty and accept the play, time is not put back on the clock if you decline the penalty and take the 5 yards clock is reset to where it was before the play.  Rule only applied in the last 2 minutes of the half.

    Honestly, the Giants would have been smart to have 14 guys on the field for the that play.  Either way it is 50+ yard Hail Mary on the final play, the clock is all that matters, not the 5 yards.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]For the rule change....If you decline the penalty and accept the play, time is not put back on the clock if you decline the penalty and take the 5 yards clock is reset to where it was before the play.  Rule only applied in the last 2 minutes of the half. Honestly, the Giants would have been smart to have 14 guys on the field for the that play.  Either way it is 50+ yard Hail Mary on the final play, the clock is all that matters, not the 5 yards.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    What are you all not getting? If you intentionally put to many guys on the field that is a different penalty called Illegal Participation. That would have been a 15 yard penalty. The reason was only 5 yards and the time comes of the clock is that Tuck running of the field had zero affect on the play itself. It is not like they were rushing 5 guys and dropping 7 into coverage. The Patriots could still have completed the pass.

    Forget about the time that came of the clock. The Patriots gained five yards on the incomplete pass. That is the penalty!

    Stop trying to change the rules to help your team. That is what the Colts do!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : What are you all not getting? If you intentionally put to many guys on the field that is a different penalty called Illegal Participation. That would have been a 15 yard penalty. The reason was only 5 yards and the time comes of the clock is that Tuck running of the field had zero affect on the play itself. It is not like they were rushing 5 guys and dropping 7 into coverage. The Patriots could still have completed the pass. Forget about the time that came of the clock. The Patriots gained five yards on the incomplete pass. That is the penalty! Stop trying to change the rules to help your team. That is what the Colts do!!!
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]

    Obviously I was being sarcastic about the 14 guys comment but it doesn't change the fact that the way the rule is currently structured, their is an incentive for the defensive team to "accidently" put a 12th man back there and give up 5 yards for a 10 second run off.  Why is the idea of putting the time back on the clock so offensive to you?

    I'm not trying to "chang the rule to help my team", in case you didn't notice the game is over.  I think going forward it is something the league needs to consider, otherwise in those types of end of game situations teams can manipulate the rules to their benefit.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]They need to adjust this rule to have time elapsed on the play put back on the clock, if not all the time at least in final 2:00 minutes of the half. The Giants are happy to give up 5 yards in that situation for :10 off the clock and the benefit of having an extra defender on that play.  Apologies if this is a duplicate thread.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Suggest you read the rules. This is NOT a "dead ball" penalty. Play continues. But, for the sale of discussion, we'll play it out your way. Same game, same situation, Brady completes he pass and it's a go ahead TD. But, wait! Here comes the penalty flag. By rulwe, the score comes off the board, the ball is advanced 5 yards, the down stays the same, and the time is out back on teh clock.

    Sunday night, as this happens, go ahead and tell the world that this is the greatest call in the world, because that's what the rules call for. And Monday morning you're on this board telling everyone that the refs and the NFL FINALLY have it right, even when the Pats lose.

    As it is, it's a free play for the offense. As we saw with the the fumble that wasn't (it would have been over ruled via replay) that was mute because of the Patriot's own 12 men on the field penalty. If the Pat scored, they turn down teh penalty and keep the points. Your way, no possible score allowed, the time is put back on the clock, and the penalty is marched off. Your way, there is no possibility of scoring, when the D is caught off guard and confused. Which would you rather have: the points, or the time back on the clock and 5 more yards?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]They could just blow the play dead like when offsides pass rusher who gets a free path to the QB.
    Posted by UD6[/QUOTE]


    OK, we'll play this your way. 3rd and goal from the 8. Manning tosses a swing pass to his RB of the Week, who is all by himself, clear path to the end zone. The play if ruled dead, and it's now 3rd and goal from the 4.

    The rule is in place with two possible penalties on the defense: 1) the obvious 5 yards and the down stays the same  2) the offense takes advantage of the penalty and scores a TD or has a huge yardage gain. Why would you want to give up points or a big gain for a dead ball 5 yard penalty?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE

    In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 12 men on field RULE CHANGE : For the one millionth time. How was that play beneficially to the Giants? Tuck was not involved in the play. The Patriots could have score a TD on that play. If it got called back because a guy running of the field was a "non-play" we would have the opposite complaint.  Since Tuck was not involved in the play, they got five yards on an incomplete pass. This thread is sour grapes. It had no effect on the outcome of the game.
    Posted by FrnkBnhm[/QUOTE]
    Frnk for the ten millionth time.. taking 10 seconds off the clock at that point in the game was MORE valuable than the 5 yrds they were punished for it. 
     

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