2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    I don't think Iupati gets past Pittsburgh at 18.  If he does, Atlanta, Houston and Cinci all need Guards too. I'm thinking D. Thomas at #22 now unless we go with Kindle or Mathews. I think Brandon Graham is off the board by 16 but no way drops to 22.  I don't think we are that high on Odrick but let's keep his name in the mix. So, I think our choices are D. Thomas, S. Kindle, R. Mathews and J. Odrick at 22. I'm really hoping it will be Thomas.  Kraft said they plan to reload for Brady.  I think Thomas and Moss lined up on the outside with Edelman (then Welker) working the slot then bring in a stud receiving TE with Faulk coming out of the backfield and you have a scary offense that is as good if not better than the one we had in 2007. Moss = Moss Thomas /> Stallworth Edelman < Welker Hernandez/Pitta/Gresham /> Watson Faulk = Faulk
    Posted by Faucetman


    I do hope Thomas is there at 22 but with the lack of 1st round talent at WR this year a team might be more willing to pick him earlier than we hope.  The Steelers as on that mock says need a CB if Wilson is there I don't see them passing up him and pickup a guard in the 2nd. 

    I would love Thomas to be there and pickup Saffold in the 2nd but I don't know.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Was impressed with Kindles film. Real good motor, lot of passion, all over the place. Looks to be a strong wirey guy. Apparently a linebacker they moved to DE to fill the need. Looks good to me. Dunlap looked good also. Very deceiving at first it looks likes he's not moving fast or trying hard but I think its just that he so big and long all his movements are as well which look slow. No one seem to get around the guy though. Excellent at containment cause of his length. Must have seen him knock down at least half a dozen or more passes including a punt with that wingspan of his. Almost always seemed to have at least two guys pass blocking him.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I agree with all of your positives here, the negatives I saw for these two guys are

    Kindle gets locked onto blockers and has trouble disengaging, he gets stood up by them losing leverage and momentum. Think he needs to learn to stay lower and can not allow the blocker to pull his attention away from the play.

    Dunlap looks amazing on his responsibility's. What I see is that once the play moves away from him he relaxes, as if to say it is no longer his responsibility and let the other guys handle it. Now I understand that on the Gators it's an all star team ( Dunlap is on tape saying the same thing ) so he can get away with relying on them to make plays. My issue is I don't think this will fly on the Pats, it is alot like A. Thomas attitude to me. You have to keep running, all the way across the field and be there to jump on the pile, even if your the last guy. If the play somehow cuts back to you like it undoubtably will at some point, your extra effort will reward you with a big play at a critical juncture. He may just be young and inmature and will develop that extra gear in the pro's, if so I think he has top 10 talent in this draft and will be viewed as a steal at #22. If not then I don't want him on my team, I am affraid that with young guys this attitude could be infectious.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Can one explain y Braynt and Thomas are the top rated WR in this draft? when Dez only played 3 games and Thomas was in a wildcat type offense, which means he only ran deep and post routes(therby saying he doesnt have great route running skills). i mean im glad we have a chance to get Damian Williams, who IMHO should be the best WR in this draft, him or Golden Tate. Explain?
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE RDE SLOT,I'D BE HAPPY WITH HOUSTON(TEXAS)EARLY AND JOHNSON(RUTGERS)LATE.THERE MAY BE A CHANCE THAT PRICE MIGHT FALL TO 44 BUT IT ISN'T SOMETHING TO COUNT ON.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Can one explain y Braynt and Thomas are the top rated WR in this draft? when Dez only played 3 games and Thomas was in a wildcat type offense, which means he only ran deep and post routes(therby saying he doesnt have great route running skills). i mean im glad we have a chance to get Damian Williams, who IMHO should be the best WR in this draft, him or Golden Tate. Explain?
    Posted by FloridaPats


    My best answer ( and not 100% sure why ) is that the WR position is the most projected position based on athletic potential. I think alot of people feel that with practice and training at the pro level these raw athletes can be harnessed for lack of a better word. ( and Bryant was productive ). There was some previous posts on this board discussing this with Golden Tate the lead example. He is arguable the most productive receiver in the draft yet some start to forget this when D. Thomas's mesurables and upside keep getting thrown in your face. How about Shipley, this guy can flat out catch but forget him, did you see his 40 time? Not sure if this is right or wrong and I think every GM probly has a little different view, an example being Oakland last year reaching for Heyward-Bay. They loved his potential. The problem is draft order sometimes, what we see is that it depends on what other teams are thinking, if you want D. Thomas then we may have to reach at #22 because of the fear another team might step up and take a flyer. Maybe then G. Tate will fall, depends on the teams in the selection order and the GM's makeing the call. Do you roll the dice for a potential Randy Moss?
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    faucet,

    I know how high you are on DThomas as I, although I  think his stock is rising, without a lot of reasons..it's not like he was overly productive in college, and it is hard to project him to Pats given the type of offense Gtech ran..plus, we did not see him at a pro day or the combine...So, I am left scratching my head why this guy all of a sudden is moving up draft board?...anyone please explain..
    I think 2 guys more ready for the Pats kind of offense and better projected to the pros is DWilliams or GTate. I would feel comfortable using a 2nd on DWilliams and either a late first, early 2nd on GTate. 

    Save the 22 for Pouncey, Lupati, Graham, Kindle or Dunlap. 
    My order based on the above...
    1. Dunlap
    2. Graham
    3. Kindle
    4. Pouncey
    5. Lupati

    I like low-fb-iq believe we desperately need a stout DE in this draft. I hope Dunlap falls to us at 22 as he has the right size 6'6' 290 to play 3-4 DE, although he played in a 4-3 in Florida....

    If he Dunlap does not fall, I like Graham here...and so on down my list. 

    My Mock would look like this....
    IF Dunlap is had at 22, I like Saffold, DWilliams, and Gerhart in round 2
    IF Graham/Kindle are the picks at 22, I like Saffold, DWilliams, Carrington/Alualu and in round 2
    IF Pouncey is had at 22, I like Carrington/Alualu, Misi and Gerhart in round 2







     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

      Tim Tebow-QB- PlayerMar. 23 - 9:19 am et
    Patriots coach Bill Belichick talked up Florida QB Tim Tebow at the owners meetings Tuesday.
    "It’s obvious that within the last six weeks, that he’s worked on his mechanics and they’ve improved," Belichick said. "He’s very coachable and he works very hard. Athletically, he tested very well at the Combine. My sense of Tim Tebow is that if you asked him to play nose (tackle), he’d play nose." The Pats have three second-round picks, and should have at least one shot at Tebow. What Belichick said Tuesday, however, means nothing.
    Source: ESPN.com
    Related: Patriots
    Tebow alert lol
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I actually mis-read your first post.  You said Koppen collected a $500K roster bonus meaning they won't be looking for a C.  I really doubt they do anything major with the OL this year.  We know Koppen and Kaczur could use upgrading but too many other holes to fill. Yes, Kindle drove into a building while texting.  I think he looks like a beast and Mayock thinks he looks better than Orakpo coming out.  Those are strong words from the draft guy I respect the most.  Mayock has obviously seen more tape and done more research than me and if he feels Kindle is a stud, how can we all disagree?  We don't know what kind of smarts Kindle has which on the surface doesn't seem high given the car incident. 
    Posted by Faucetman

    Perhaps his girlfriend sent him a ummm "Nice" photo. ;-) That can be kind of distracting.

    I'll give him a mulligan.

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    I don't think Iupati gets past Pittsburgh at 18.  If he does, Atlanta, Houston and Cinci all need Guards too. I'm thinking D. Thomas at #22 now unless we go with Kindle or Mathews. I think Brandon Graham is off the board by 16 but no way drops to 22.  I don't think we are that high on Odrick but let's keep his name in the mix. So, I think our choices are D. Thomas, S. Kindle, R. Mathews and J. Odrick at 22. I'm really hoping it will be Thomas.  Kraft said they plan to reload for Brady.  I think Thomas and Moss lined up on the outside with Edelman (then Welker) working the slot then bring in a stud receiving TE with Faulk coming out of the backfield and you have a scary offense that is as good if not better than the one we had in 2007. Moss = Moss Thomas /> Stallworth Edelman < Welker Hernandez/Pitta/Gresham /> Watson Faulk = Faulk
    Posted by Faucetman


    Don't forget 

    Tate ? Gaffney
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/367223-2010-nfl-draft-3-reasons-the-new-england-patriots-should-stay-at-no-22
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Another history lesson to dampen the hype over D. Thomas.  I would gamble on him in the second but not in the first round.

    Matt Jones in 2005 NFL draft:

    6'6", 237lbs,  4.37 in the 40-yard dash , a 39.5" vertical, and a 10' 10" broad-jump.  Deemed as "The freak".  The Jaguars took him at 21. He is out of football now. 

    Pat Kirwan has the very same Jaguars take D Thomas at 10.  Even the pros get sucked out into the hype, the misinformation, and the smokescreen.

    The draft is a like a high-stake poker game.  Let's see who will get faked out.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Another history lesson to dampen the hype over D. Thomas.  I would gamble on him in the second but not in the first round. Matt Jones in 2005 NFL draft: 6'6", 237lbs,  4.37 in the 40-yard dash , a 39.5" vertical, and a 10' 10" broad-jump.  Deemed as "The freak".  The Jaguars took him at 21. He is out of football now.  Pat Kirwan has the very same Jaguars take D Thomas at 10.  Even the pros get sucked out into the hype, the misinformation, and the smokescreen. The draft is a like a high-stake poker game.  Let's see who will get faked out.
    Posted by TrustBill


    Bad comparison, Matt Jones was a college QB who had never played WR.  Thomas is a very big WR with good speed, only real down side on Thomas offense he played in at Tech and two he will not be able to work out because of a broken foot.

    I'm not comparing him to Calvin Johnson but will use him as an example of a tech WR been successful in the NFL.  I think Thomas will get picked in the top 20.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Bad comparison, Matt Jones was a college QB who had never played WR.  Thomas is a very big WR with good speed, only real down side on Thomas offense he played in at Tech and two he will not be able to work out because of a broken foot. I'm not comparing him to Calvin Johnson but will use him as an example of a tech WR been successful in the NFL.  I think Thomas will get picked in the top 20.
    Posted by Pats7393

    A team with less complicated offense can take him.  IMHO, He is not a good fit for the Patriots.  Golden Tate is a much better fit.

    Kraft is talking about adding more weapons for Brady.  BB is gushing over Tebow. I hope this leads to more offense players taken prior to the #22 and thus increases the likelihood of us landing one of my Fab-five  on D: Dunlap, JPP, Graham, Kindle, and Odrick.

     
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Bad comparison, Matt Jones was a college QB who had never played WR.  Thomas is a very big WR with good speed, only real down side on Thomas offense he played in at Tech and two he will not be able to work out because of a broken foot. I'm not comparing him to Calvin Johnson but will use him as an example of a tech WR been successful in the NFL.  I think Thomas will get picked in the top 20.
    Posted by Pats7393


    I don't believe GT ran a triple option offense when CJ was their though.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : A team with less complicated offense can take him.  IMHO, He is not a good fit for the Patriots.  Golden Tate is a much better fit. Kraft is talking about adding more weapons for Brady.  BB is gushing over Tebow. I hope this leads to more offense players taken prior to the #22 and thus increases the likelihood of us landing one of my Fab-five  on D: Dunlap, JPP, Graham, Kindle, and Odrick.  
    Posted by TrustBill


    I like Golden Tate and would not be upset if he's taken at 22 I think he will be a great WR.  My thinking with my mock is this, Mankins situation can turn ugly quickly and the Pats will draft in case something is not reached.  If Iupati falls to 22 not only can he replace Mankins if that is what happens but he can also fill the need at RT.

    Thomas is a player who has the upside to be a true #1 WR in the league.  How many "routes" does Randy Moss run?  What is his job?  Beat coverage deep fight for the ball, Thomas has the size and speed to do those things and it a player who you can coach a route tree based on your offense.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I don't believe GT ran a triple option offense when CJ was their though.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    No it wasn't same offense as when Johnson was here, at that time it was more your typical spread offense but Johnson was a kid who had a lot of deep routes.  I don't think he was a very polished WR in route running.  At 6'5" 230 4.45 he was your deep threat guy as is Thomas.
    The triple option IMO acts like a sort of play action in the pros, there are different routes he ran most were right up the field but he also was good at WR screens, quick throws much like TB does.  Snap ball and hit the WR if the CB is playing back.
    Not same offenses but similar routes between the two, trust me I know Thomas has a long ways to go to be a CJ but I think he'll be a #1 in this league.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWm1lak8NQ

    oh and I hate the Dawgs (Georgia) any chance tech has to get more guys drafted than the Dawgs the more I can harass those fans who think as tech as the rejects from UGA.  UGA has no player ranked higher than 2-3, Rashad Jones Tech has two 1st rounder Morgan and Thomas, Dwyer as a late 1st or 2nd, Morgan Burnett as a 3rd.  UGA beat them this year so I didn't have much to talk about this would give me some ammo for smack talk.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : No it wasn't same offense as when Johnson was here, at that time it was more your typical spread offense but Johnson was a kid who had a lot of deep routes.  I don't think he was a very pulished WR in route running.  At 6'5" 230 4.45 he was your deep threat guy as is Thomas. The triple option IMO acts like a sort of play action in the pros, there are different routes he ran most were right up the field but he also was good at WR screens, quick throws much like TB does.  Snap ball and hit the WR if the CB is playing back. Not same offenses but similar routes between the two, trust me I know Thomas has a long ways to go to be a CJ but I think he'll be a #1 in this league. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWm1lak8NQ
    Posted by Pats7393



    My issue with Thomas isn't really the route running as much as, how does he perform/produce when teams are scheming to stop him vs. run run run run run run run...hit Thomas over the top on a fade route...run run run run.  How will he adapt to press-man with safety help over the top?  I may be wrong, but you have to assume that defenses were loading up the box to stop Dwyer, Nesbitt and the rest of the ground game first, Thomas second.

    This is why I personally prefer Tate as he's already proven his worth as an extremely productive "go to" receiver in a pro-style offense with defenses scheming to stop him. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrustBill. Show TrustBill's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : No it wasn't same offense as when Johnson was here, at that time it was more your typical spread offense but Johnson was a kid who had a lot of deep routes.  I don't think he was a very polished WR in route running.  At 6'5" 230 4.45 he was your deep threat guy as is Thomas. The triple option IMO acts like a sort of play action in the pros, there are different routes he ran most were right up the field but he also was good at WR screens, quick throws much like TB does.  Snap ball and hit the WR if the CB is playing back. Not same offenses but similar routes between the two, trust me I know Thomas has a long ways to go to be a CJ but I think he'll be a #1 in this league. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jWm1lak8NQ oh and I hate the Dawgs (Georgia) any chance tech has to get more guys drafted than the Dawgs the more I can harass those fans who think as tech as the rejects from UGA.  UGA has no player ranked higher than 2-3, Rashad Jones Tech has two 1st rounder Morgan and Thomas, Dwyer as a late 1st or 2nd, Morgan Burnett as a 3rd.  UGA beat them this year so I didn't have much to talk about this would give me some ammo for smack talk.
    Posted by Pats7393


    Tech is having a much better year than UGA.  No problem about that.  But Iowa totally shut down Tech in the Bowl game, rasing concerns over Morgan, Thomas and Dwyer.  I am very intrigued by Dwyer.  Now that he has slided on the board, he could be a steal.  It is not common to see a guy consistently break off long runs at 220lbs.   How much the triple option offense helped him?
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : My issue with Thomas isn't really the route running as much as, how does he perform/produce when teams are scheming to stop him vs. run run run run run run run...hit Thomas over the top on a fade route...run run run run.  How will he adapt to press-man with safety help over the top?  I may be wrong, but you have to assume that defenses were loading up the box to stop Dwyer, Nesbitt and the rest of the ground game first, Thomas second. This is why I personally prefer Tate as he's already proven his worth as an extremely productive "go to" receiver in a pro-style offense with defenses scheming to stop him. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    You are right, I make the same assumption that there were 8/9 in the box and man on the outside.  I have been reading a ton on Andre Roberts from the Citadel.  The more I read on him the more I think if he played for in a school like ND he would be ranked higher than a 3rd or 4th rnder.

    Roberts I like as the type of player Tate is, I like Roberts more than I do Tate.  I don't think the Pats draft them both.  They have interviewed Roberts and showed interest in him.  Both are almost identical in Tate 5'10 199 4.42 40 Roberts 5'11 195 4.40 40.  If Roberts is a player they want I don't know they draft two guys with identical skill set, they are both great route runners and can play outside or inside.

    Because I dont' think they draft two under 6' WRs I have Thomas as a 1st round option.  Now I could be wrong and they choose to move to the Branch and Givens days then you get both Tate and Roberts in the draft.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Also, Pats, I saw Jones have some monster games where he was just overpowering people to get the ball.  I think he washed out because of personal problems, not ability.  As I remember, he did not have the maturity to deal with sudden wealth, fame of a young athlete.

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Sorry Pats, I was responding to "Trust Bill."
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I agree with all of your positives here, the negatives I saw for these two guys are Kindle gets locked onto blockers and has trouble disengaging, he gets stood up by them losing leverage and momentum. Think he needs to learn to stay lower and can not allow the blocker to pull his attention away from the play. Dunlap looks amazing on his responsibility's. What I see is that once the play moves away from him he relaxes, as if to say it is no longer his responsibility and let the other guys handle it. Now I understand that on the Gators it's an all star team ( Dunlap is on tape saying the same thing ) so he can get away with relying on them to make plays. My issue is I don't think this will fly on the Pats, it is alot like A. Thomas attitude to me. You have to keep running, all the way across the field and be there to jump on the pile, even if your the last guy. If the play somehow cuts back to you like it undoubtably will at some point, your extra effort will reward you with a big play at a critical juncture. He may just be young and inmature and will develop that extra gear in the pro's, if so I think he has top 10 talent in this draft and will be viewed as a steal at #22. If not then I don't want him on my team, I am affraid that with young guys this attitude could be infectious.
    Posted by Asher77



    Hey Asher,

    Since I am unsure as to which game clips we have both seen I will make a best guess at the ones you are referring to with regards to kindle and Dunlap.

    As for kindle, I saw something that I could absolutely interpret the way you did. However after seeing him do it on a regular basis I started to look at all those plays again and formed a different opinion. 

    First let me preface this by saying I never know what a players responsibilities are on any given play. Non of us do, yes even the experts. They think they do but they are not in the meeting for the game plan leading up to the game and not in the defensive or offensive huddle and do not hear the calls. That have a better educated(football wise) guess than us but still are guessing.

    With that said, it looks to me that on certain plays Kindle fire across the line in what looks like a all out pass rush and jacks up the lineman in front of him. Engages him and sort of stands up himself while extending his arms to keep the blocker at bay while still being engaged. It looks like this is a technique as he often uses this pause to look around the blocker into the backfield and diagnose assess the play before continuing. I thought he made a lot of good decisions while doing this as opposed to many that just go running in wildly and taking themselves out of the play. When those types are successful they make a nice tackle for loss or even get a sack. Problem is when they are not they give up a big play. Kindle may give you a few less TFL or sacks if that's his role(responsibility) but he rarely if ever let a back or qb get more more than a yard or two in any plays I watched.

    Now for Dunlap, yep I saw those plays where he let up chasing a play away from him. Certainly were some. On others he ran the guy down from behind while going to the other side away from him. Maybe he gives up some intensity when the game seems well in hand? I never paid attention to the score at the time of seeing it.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : You are right, I make the same assumption that there were 8/9 in the box and man on the outside.  I have been reading a ton on Andre Roberts from the Citadel.  The more I read on him the more I think if he played for in a school like ND he would be ranked higher than a 3rd or 4th rnder. Roberts I like as the type of player Tate is, I like Roberts more than I do Tate.  I don't think the Pats draft them both.  They have interviewed Roberts and showed interest in him.  Both are almost identical in Tate 5'10 199 4.42 40 Roberts 5'11 195 4.40 40.  If Roberts is a player they want I don't know they draft two guys with identical skill set, they are both great route runners and can play outside or inside. Because I dont' think they draft two under 6' WRs I have Thomas as a 1st round option.  Now I could be wrong and they choose to move to the Branch and Givens days then you get both Tate and Roberts in the draft.
    Posted by Pats7393


    You like Roberts over Tate relative to value at their projected draft positions or as an overall prospect?
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    I think Faucet already did this but just in case... Here are the current Patriot draft pick slots:

    #22
    #44
    #47
    #53
    #119
    #190
    #205
    #229
    #231
    #247
    #248
    #250
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : You like Roberts over Tate relative to value at their projected draft positions or as an overall prospect?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Relative to what can do to the value of the pick, I don't think Tate would double any number Roberts can put up.  I think because they are so similar in skill set although Tate might be more proven they will put up similar stats so Tate would probably need to be had with the 22nd where Roberts probably will need to be the 53rd.  Love them both, I think the Pats would be better with getting these types of guys now and get their 6'4+ WR next year in FA.

    Gives you 22nd to get Graham Iupati or another key hole in the team.
     

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