2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Faucet, one thing that makes me nervous is a couple of quotes about Carimi I have recently read in ProFootball Weekly:
    They indicated that Carimi struggles against Clayborn, bullied him into the backfield
    And against Heyward they said they counted Carimi on the ground 7 times.
    Not good signes to me.IMHO


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    I'm looking at this team and wondering with all the injured players coming back and the rooks that are playing very well what will the need be next season and I keep coming back to the OL. 

    I still don't see a 1st round type OT, just don't each has holes and last year which would had been a 1st round talent?  Here's my latest mock with the needs I see and some surprises.

    1st Rnd
    14 (Oak) - Da'Quan Bowers OLB/DE 6'4" 275 a 280lbs guy that runs sub 4.7 well can't pass up IMO (maybe he's an Adalius Thomas that can actually play)
    32 - Brandon Harris CB 5'11" 195 solid CB, outside McCourty and Bodden who is third best?  Hopping for Butler to show up big 2nd half of the season but Harris could be another McCourty
    2nd Rnd
    35 (Car) - Stefen Wisniewski OC 6'3" 298 will need to add a few lbs but can do all the things the Pats like to do with their C.  
    64 - Lee Ziemba OT 6'8" 320 Anchors the Auburn OL, if he can start in 2011 twin giants at the T spots
    3rd Rnd
    73 (Min) - Bilal Powell RB 6'0" 215 - He could be a name to watch but probably will take a 2nd rounder when it's all said and done.
    96 - Matt Szcur WR/RB/KR 5'11" 195 can line up in as a RB or go wide as a WR.  A bigger Woody?
    4th Rnd
    101 (Denver) - John Moffitt OG/C 6'5" 320 very versatile OL who can play both G and C.  Plays with an attitude
    5th Rnd
    Cedric Thornton DE 6'4" 295 small school sleeper
    6th Rnd (dave thomas trade)
    6 Kris Adams WR 6'3" 195 player to develop, probably a PS for a year or two.  Needs to polish routes.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet, one thing that makes me nervous is a couple of quotes about Carimi I have recently read in ProFootball Weekly: They indicated that Carimi struggles against Clayborn, bullied him into the backfield And against Heyward they said they counted Carimi on the ground 7 times. Not good signes to me.IMHO
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]


    i watched both games. maybe i missed those instances that they talk about but overall carimi clearly had the upperhand  versus either de.

    heyward  was practically reduced to nothing.

    clayborn looked like he got away every now and then but carimi actually recovered nicely on those situations. clayborn did not get to the qb and carimi was not close to looking like he had to hold. his hips were pretty much always between clayborn and the qb.

    does anyone have clayborn's stats that game? clayborn probably had his worst stats on that game
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    i guess the stats don't support what i just said, moon.
    clayborn had 1 tackle for 14 yrd loss
    heyward had 4 tackles
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from reamer. Show reamer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]I'm looking at this team and wondering with all the injured players coming back and the rooks that are playing very well what will the need be next season and I keep coming back to the OL.  I still don't see a 1st round type OT, just don't each has holes and last year which would had been a 1st round talent?  Here's my latest mock with the needs I see and some surprises. 1st Rnd 14 (Oak) - Da'Quan Bowers OLB/DE 6'4" 275 a 280lbs guy that runs sub 4.7 well can't pass up IMO (maybe he's an Adalius Thomas that can actually play) 32 - Brandon Harris CB 5'11" 195 solid CB, outside McCourty and Bodden who is third best?   Hopping for Butler to show up big 2nd half of the season but Harris could be another McCourty 2nd Rnd 35 (Car) - Stefen Wisniewski OC 6'3" 298 will need to add a few lbs but can do all the things the Pats like to do with their C.    64 - Lee Ziemba OT 6'8" 320 Anchors the Auburn OL, if he can start in 2011 twin giants at the T spots 3rd Rnd 73 (Min) - Bilal Powell RB 6'0" 215 - He could be a name to watch but probably will take a 2nd rounder when it's all said and done. 96 - Matt Szcur WR/RB/KR 5'11" 195 can line up in as a RB or go wide as a WR.   A bigger Woody? 4th Rnd 101 (Denver) - John Moffitt OG/C 6'5" 320 very versatile OL who can play both G and C.   Plays with an attitude 5th Rnd Cedric Thornton DE 6'4" 295 small school sleeper 6th Rnd (dave thomas trade) 6 Kris Adams WR 6'3" 195 player to develop, probably a PS for a year or two.  Needs to polish routes.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    This is one of the better mocks I've seen so far. Bowers and Harris are really, really good. I can't believe how little love Harris gets; any other year, he's a top ten pick. If I were him I'd stay another year, but from what I've read he's pretty much made up his mind to declare.

    Like the OLs and RB, too. Good stuff all around.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeepguy2358. Show jeepguy2358's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Okay, I know this is a little early for this kid, but man would Marcus Lattimore look good in a Patriots uniform.  He is only a freshman this year and had 182 rushing yards against a top 25 Georgia defense.  Check out this video. This kid is a beast!!  I'll warn you.  If you are easily offended, turn the volume off.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HeTQBMoSRI&feature=related

    He will be the best running back in college football.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Lazarus, I caught that little "joke" on walterfootball also and I nearly did a spit take with a mouth full of coffee... It does seem at times like that is what he is trying to do to trade back enough that one day he will own that many picks! lol

    As for who we take it is tried and true for me "in BB I trust" but I hope to see upgrades at RB, OLB/DE, OLine, and I still wouldn't mind another CB and Safety.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Supernova13. Show Supernova13's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    If you had to choose between Stefen Wisniewski and Kris O'Dowd, who would choose and why?

    Wisniewski- smart
     pedigree
     versatile
     no injury concerns
     mobile

    O'Dowd- powerful
        injury problems
        mauler
        higher upside

    I do not know what I would do, but for some reason, I feel as though Wisniewski would be a better fit. At the same time, O'Dowd is appealing since he could manhandle any NT in the league.  
     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

        Right now,as I have said in an earlier post,I really like Bowers,who I see as teriffic and versitle fit and Carimi,who seems to be B.B.'s kind of OT,in the first.If the Pats draft very late(like last?)in the first Solder also appears to be a sound fit.In the second round,I would love to see Kerrigan slip to the very early second round,and if he does I'd give and take about 10 seconds to make him my pick and why everyone doesn't have Matthews(a big play guy with excellent fundamental skills and a good motor)climbing the draft ladder,I do not know.I like like Henry in round three,but someone could reach a little bit and take him as early as mid-second.If Powell is there on the Pats own third round pick I'd grab him almost as fast as would do with Kerrigan.Getting any three of these six would by outstanding and it wouldn't be surprise if a CB and WR be in the mix early.I would be very surprised if the Pats went RB real early unless someone just drops into their lap,and perhaps not even then.Then again,who knows what lurks in the deeper recesses of Belichick's mind in terms who he wants on his team,and that's just fine with me.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    I don't know what to make out of Bowers. I don't know how he would fit our system. He seems to be the best fit for a 4-3 system where he plays left end.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]If you had to choose between Stefen Wisniewski and Kris O'Dowd, who would choose and why? Wisniewski- smart  pedigree  versatile  no injury concerns  mobile O'Dowd- powerful     injury problems     mauler     higher upside I do not know what I would do, but for some reason, I feel as though Wisniewski would be a better fit. At the same time, O'Dowd is appealing since he could manhandle any NT in the league.    
    Posted by Supernova13[/QUOTE]

    Wisniewski all the way no questions asked, that center position is very important and this kid looks like he will be able to transition into the NFL.  I love his play sometimes his technic goes south but the tape I've seen he has all the tools.  Very strong background and seems to be a great person.  Extremely smart and has Gronks enthusiasms for football.

    Type of guy other OL on that team grade themselves against.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    We'll be lucky if this oak pick is even in the teens.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]I don't know what to make out of Bowers. I don't know how he would fit our system. He seems to be the best fit for a 4-3 system where he plays left end.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]


    I don't think he is a good fit at all. Still, he is a guy you need to follow because he has ramifications on other guys who NE could select.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]I don't know what to make out of Bowers. I don't know how he would fit our system. He seems to be the best fit for a 4-3 system where he plays left end.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    His size says 43 DE, add his speed reporterly sub 4.7 and he's a 34 OLB at 280lbs.  He moves well in space and is very strong against the run. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet, one thing that makes me nervous is a couple of quotes about Carimi I have recently read in ProFootball Weekly: They indicated that Carimi struggles against Clayborn, bullied him into the backfield And against Heyward they said they counted Carimi on the ground 7 times. Not good signes to me.IMHO
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]
    Sorry, been away a few days.  I saw the WIS/IOWA game and Carimi did a nice job with Clayborn.  As others stated, Clayborn got past Carimi a couple of times but Carimi got him out wide and deep enough that Clayborn wasn't able to get to the QB.  I didn't see any sacks or pressures but I missed about a quarter of the game.  I view Clayborn as the top Defensive Linesman in college football.  Some may argue about that but in any event, to get beaten by the best if it happened once or twice isn't that bad.  In any event, Carimi had a solid game against the best competition available in college.  This tells me he will translate nicely to the pros.  Remember above all, your first round picks have to be solid at any position.  You can't afford a bust.  Carimi to me is about as safe a bet as there is coming out and he's in a need position.  He should be a serious candidate even as high as the Raider pick IMO.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Guys, the Bowers talk is intriguing but I don't see it happening and here's why.

    He's best suited to be a 43 DE.  He's too big to be a 34 OLB and would be a liability in coverage.  I just don't think he would be as valuable in our scheme to spend a top 15 pick on.  I know he's a great rusher and that is a HUGE area of need but to spend a high pick on a situational player doesn't seem like good value to me.  TBC provides that roll now and he just got a new big contract.  But, if that Raider pick ends up being a 20+ pick and Bowers is somehow still there, then I think he makes sense because we have the luxury of a second pick in the first round.  Bowers could be very disruptive in the right situations and would be worth consideration.  I just wouldn't head into the draft hoping for him.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from reamer. Show reamer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Zbellino and Faucetman, I always respect your opinions on the draft, but in Bowers' case I strongly disagree.

    A while back I wrote: He's one of the few ends in college who is extremely stout against the run, has experience playing in a two-point stance both to rush and to drop into coverage, and consistently extends his arms, locks out his blocker, reads the play, and sheds to make the tackle--textbook two-gap technique. He's down to 270 this year, by his own admission, not the rumored 280 or 290 that gets bandied about. His teammates have mentioned throughout the year that he consistently impresses them with his ability to understand everyone's role on the defense, which is precisely the reason that BB got so excited about McCourty. It's rare at the college level. Show me another college player who can stop the run and get after the passer as well as Bowers does right now. The only name that comes to mind is everyone's draft binky, Nick Fairley, and he plays a different position entirely. Bowers and Cunningham would form an elite tandem for years. I'm sold.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : This is one of the better mocks I've seen so far. Bowers and Harris are really, really good. I can't believe how little love Harris gets; any other year, he's a top ten pick. If I were him I'd stay another year, but from what I've read he's pretty much made up his mind to declare. Like the OLs and RB, too. Good stuff all around.
    Posted by reamer[/QUOTE]

    Thanks reamer,

    I can't get over Bowers, I know some have their doubts on him as a OLB but he's the same size AD is and BB went out to get him as a FA.  I don't mind that size because he runs as faster than most 260lbs. IMO is he has a good season he could be the pick unless someone scoops him before the Pats have a chance with the Oak pick.

    For Harris, this kid will be very good idk he makes it to the the Pats 1st rnd pick.  I am almost convinced there will be a run on CBs early, there's a big drop off after the top tear CBs.  Much as it was last year.

    OL, man we need some guys I will continue to look at OTs but I think ziemba could be a day 1 starter.  he's been inconsistent but read his dad stepped in and helped him through some issues he was having now he's back to form.  When you have a 21 yr who's biggest influence is still his dad has to say something good about him.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    Reamer, 

    I will certainly take that into consideration. I hate ruling anyone out. 

    But are we talking about the same Bowers?? I mean, from what I have seen Clemson uses Bowers as an inside rusher half of the time. Like 3-tech. He almost never stands.

    He would be extremely low in likelihood as a conversion based on what I've seen.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    I think the best role for Bowers on the team would be a sub-inside or sub-outside rusher like Jarvis Green. He'd be great in that role, probably productive. They'd then have to hope that unlike Green he could actually transition to a OLB or 3-4 DE position.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]Zbellino and Faucetman, I always respect your opinions on the draft, but in Bowers' case I strongly disagree. A while back I wrote: He's one of the few ends in college who is extremely stout against the run, has experience playing in a two-point stance both to rush and to drop into coverage, and consistently extends his arms, locks out his blocker, reads the play, and sheds to make the tackle--textbook two-gap technique. He's down to 270 this year, by his own admission, not the rumored 280 or 290 that gets bandied about. His teammates have mentioned throughout the year that he consistently impresses them with his ability to understand everyone's role on the defense, which is precisely the reason that BB got so excited about McCourty. It's rare at the college level. Show me another college player who can stop the run and get after the passer as well as Bowers does right now. The only name that comes to mind is everyone's draft binky, Nick Fairley, and he plays a different position entirely. Bowers and Cunningham would form an elite tandem for years. I'm sold.
    Posted by reamer[/QUOTE]
    Thanks Reamer.  Believe me, I think Bowers is an very intriguing prospect for us.  He is a sack specialist and that is a big need for us.  I also realize he is down to the 270s, still, that is about 10-15 lbs more than your prototypical OLB in a 34 scheme.  I love the guy and I could be wrong since I was wrong once before, lol.  I just don't think we'd pull the trigger on him unless we planned to run more 4-3.  Otherwise this guy doesn't get on the field enough to be a first round pick.

    Look at TBC.  He is our situational rusher and he isn't even starting anymore.  Now Bowers might show us something at the Combine if he takes part in LB drills to change a lot of mind.  I hope he does because I respect and like his game.  I was on the other side of this argument last year for Brandon Graham so I am a bit on the fence with Bowers.  But BB hasn't shown much deviation to go for a guy that doesn't fit his scheme especially in the first round.  It is too big a gamble to project a player to do things you haven't seen him do on tape. But, iI'll keep an open mind.  thanks.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : Thanks Reamer.  Believe me, I think Bowers is an very intriguing prospect for us.  He is a sack specialist and that is a big need for us.  I also realize he is down to the 270s, still, that is about 10-15 lbs more than your prototypical OLB in a 34 scheme.  I love the guy and I could be wrong since I was wrong once before, lol.  I just don't think we'd pull the trigger on him unless we planned to run more 4-3.  Otherwise this guy doesn't get on the field enough to be a first round pick. Look at TBC.  He is our situational rusher and he isn't even starting anymore.  Now Bowers might show us something at the Combine if he takes part in LB drills to change a lot of mind.  I hope he does because I respect and like his game.  I was on the other side of this argument last year for Brandon Graham so I am a bit on the fence with Bowers.  But BB hasn't shown much deviation to go for a guy that doesn't fit his scheme especially in the first round.  It is too big a gamble to project a player to do things you haven't seen him do on tape. But, iI'll keep an open mind.  thanks.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    not in the draft but he did spend a ton of cash on AD, and he was north of 270 and I believe a little over an inch shorter than Bowers.

    Don't get me wrong I hear your points and are very valid but I think this guy has that thing about getting to the QB and could be a LB in the right system. 
    I found this little piece Bowers last year vs GT, in all the plays he is not with a hand on the ground he's standing up where you would find an OLB in a 34.  A little preview as to what he would look like setting the edge.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VBZWlfxnB4
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : not in the draft but he did spend a ton of cash on AD, and he was north of 270 and I believe a little over an inch shorter than Bowers. Don't get me wrong I hear your points and are very valid but I think this guy has that thing about getting to the QB and could be a LB in the right system.  I found this little piece Bowers last year vs GT, in all the plays he is not with a hand on the ground he's standing up where you would find an OLB in a 34.  A little preview as to what he would look like setting the edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VBZWlfxnB4
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    He's lined up as a 43 end in those clips.  Yes you would expect a 34 OLB to move up to the line on some plays and rush the passer there but that isn't what Bowers is doing.  His standing up in his normal position.  I didn't see a clip where he dropped back into coverage.  I think we need to see him do drills as a LB at the Combine before we know if we think he can make the transition.  Remember Koa Misi at the Combine last year?.  He was very fluid in his LB drills.  I felt right away that he would have no problems making the move from DE to 34 OLB and he has proven that to be the case with the Dolphins.

    AD is a different story.  Yes, he is similar in weight than Bowers but shorter making Bowers actually a bit better sized.  However as you pointed out, BB went after Thomas as a F/A because there was a large body of work in the NFL with Baltimore playing the position.  The Patriots under BB have yet to draft a tweener in the first 5 rounds that I can remember.  The only example of a tweener that BB drafted that I can remember was TBC in the 7th round.  He signed Fletcher as an UDFA last year.  Bruschi and McGinest were pre-BB.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1*** : He's lined up as a 43 end in those clips.  Yes you would expect a 34 OLB to move up to the line on some plays and rush the passer there but that isn't what Bowers is doing.  His standing up in his normal position.  I didn't see a clip where he dropped back into coverage.  I think we need to see him do drills as a LB at the Combine before we know if we think he can make the transition.  Remember Koa Misi at the Combine last year?.  He was very fluid in his LB drills.  I felt right away that he would have no problems making the move from DE to 34 OLB and he has proven that to be the case with the Dolphins. AD is a different story.  Yes, he is similar in weight than Bowers but shorter making Bowers actually a bit better sized.  However as you pointed out, BB went after Thomas as a F/A because there was a large body of work in the NFL with Baltimore playing the position.  The Patriots under BB have yet to draft a tweener in the first 5 rounds that I can remember.  The only example of a tweener that BB drafted that I can remember was TBC in the 7th round.  He signed Fletcher as an UDFA last year.  Bruschi and McGinest were pre-BB.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Someone had mentioned they had seen Bowers mostly as a DT, he doesn't drop back but can see he's able to set that edge.  I'm liking his motor and game but also like Jeremy Beal.

    This might all be a mood point, as I have posted in earlier mocks.  I don't know an OLB is considered until later.  These group is looking to be improving and playing very well.  Add a few sacks by Cunningham and Crable and that pick can go to a stud OT.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED WITH MOCK V1***

    My thinking was that there wasn't a good DE transfer to OLB in the top of the first round.  With all the talk going on about Bowers and others I thought I probably was wrong.  I just don't see anything there that fits the Pats system.

     

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