2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    A thought on Bodden and CBs and I promise I won't keep going on the CB front. 

    Going into next season, we'll have McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite

    i don't think Wilhite will be back and on the fence on Butler.  He hasn't had enough snaps yet to really grade if he's improved.  GB will be a good test if McCourty can't go. 

    Next year I see McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler.  Outside of McCourty the other three can be upgraded.  One problem this season has been having to use Chung in nickel/slot to cover due to lack  of that 3rd CB (one that gets the job done) or a CB who can matchup against a TE splitting out wide which we've seen more and more.
    Having a (again only projections on how guys look at college) shutdown type CB aside from McCourty would be huge.  I would use Bodden as the CB who can match with those TEs or RBs coming out of the backfield and be close to the line in run support (Chung's role while he's been playing that nickel role) While McCourty and Jenkins or Harris man the other side. 

    Again I see a lot of improvement in Arrington but is he going to be that X factor?  He will be solid but not a probowler. 

    mb makes a good point as well, Warren coming back improves a very good DL.  Weston is also back, rook 7th rounder but he's got the size to hold the edge.  There are also a few DEs in the 2nd that could be upgrades IMO from what we have and I wouldn't say the same for CBs.  Having a 1st rnd talent CB is big for a team that spends more than 50% of snaps in subpackages.

    I would be more willing to go into next season with the current DL with Warren back than with current CBs (more to do with Butler and Wilhite) with Bodden back.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Faucet, I'm not against drafting a DE, OLB or OL in Rd 1, though I still think they go BPA (which could be CB) vs. an assumed need pick.  I disagree that taking a CB would result in a 2 down player while selecting a DE would automatically result in a 3-4 down player.  The argument that applies for Bodden coming back also applies to Ty Warren.  Also, who's to say that Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris, or another CB they identify couldn't come in and replace Bodden and be an everydown player and provide a bigger impact than any DE that's available with their pick?  I agree with your point around them taking a safe (likely starter) pick in Rd 1 which is why I go with BPA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    I don't think Ty Warren is the same argument as Bodden coming back.  Gerard Warren is on a one year deal.  He is 32 and is nearing retirement.  Assuming we bring him back it would likely be for a 1 year deal, 2 max at his age.  The two Warrens play the same position, LDE.  It is the RDE position where Brace/Deaderick/Wright (for the 4-5 games he's healthy) play that needs the major upgrade.

    With 3 picks in the top 33, I guess we can afford the luxury of a 3rd CB somewhere in there.  Personally though, I'd rather go with one at 64/76 and address, DL, OL and OLB first.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Faucet MB, I think what's really interesting about this is that how many teams can have fans arguing about two "areas that need improvement" that at worse if nothing else happens they would be better than most other teams already without adding a possible 1st or 2nd rounder to it.

    I mean what a freaking job BB has done to this point.  To the Warren point, very valid Faucet. 

    Are there any FAs that we should be looking at?  I really haven't looked at a FA DE or FA 34OLB.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    OLB FA
    David Hawthorne, SEA
    – At 25, Hawthorne is another one of the league’s emerging linebackers. He’s relatively unknown, but was outstanding in Lofa Tatupu’s absence a year ago. Racking up 117 tackles, 4 sacks, 8 stuffs, and 3 interceptions, it wouldn’t be surprising to see a team make a big play at Hawthorne and the throw the bank and pry him from Seattle via restricted free agency.
    David Harris, NYJ – Though Harris is one of the league’s best, young linebackers, the Jets may just not have the money to pay him. They’re looking at extensions to Revis, Mangold, and Ferguson in the next 2 years, in addition to a pair of free agent receivers and nearly acquired Antonio Cromartie. They’ll most likely make Harris one of their top priorities after the big 3, but Harris may be able to get more money elsewhere if he isn’t tagged. We’ll see what he decides.
    Lamarr Woodley, PIT – Woodley has developed into the league’s best left outside linebacker, forming a terrifying tandem in Pittsburgh. The two have accounted for 50 combined sacks over the last 2 years. With that in mind, Pittsburgh won’t let Woodley get away.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Defensive Lineman FA
    Ray Edwards, MIN
    - Edwards made a name for himself with a 3-sack game against Dallas in the Divisional Round, but that was simply an exclamation point of a terrific season. Is his production a product of having 3 Pro Bowlers playing next to him? Edwards was tendered with a 1st round tag this year and it doesn’t seem teams are willing to take that risk quite yet. If he repeats his performance, or improves upon it, next year will be much different. The Vikings will have to pay a steep price to keep him.
    Tamba Hali, KC – It took some time for Hali to make the conversion to outside linebacker, but after making the successful transition, it seems that Tamba Hali is due for another contract in Kansas City. He’s still a long reach from being an elite player, but he’s consistent with still some upside.
    Marcus Spears, DAL – Spears had a mildly disappointing season last year and was outplayed by backups at times. It should come as no surprise that the Cowboys reportedly tried to move him in the offseason. If the same trend continues where one of their backups truly emerges, the Cowboys may have few problems in allowing Marcus Spears to walk.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet MB, I think what's really interesting about this is that how many teams can have fans arguing about two "areas that need improvement" that at worse if nothing else happens they would be better than most other teams already without adding a possible 1st or 2nd rounder to it. I mean what a freaking job BB has done to this point.  To the Warren point, very valid Faucet.  Are there any FAs that we should be looking at?  I really haven't looked at a FA DE or FA 34OLB.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    I know, isn't it awesome??  Other fans should be so lucky.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Still early for me to get in on this conversation as I have yet to edit any of the all-22 films on any of this years prospects but speaking on the current patriots roster I can give my 2 cents.

    Defense:

    CB
    Someone mentioned CB needs by using the use of chung or another safety at times in that role as an excuse the corners need to be upgraded. I disagree with that logic.

    The patriots use the safeties more if they are in a sub package that calls for it because they do not have the beef up front, instead using the better pass rushers, therefore requiring the better run support from the extra safeties over CB's. That's not a direct indictment on the CB play.

    Bodden played excellent last year in this defensive system and there is no reason to think that would not be the case again.

    Arrington, Butler, Wilhite have all played ok, especially Arrington. I think the only reason Arrington plays over Butler is that Butler has all the skill but , to me, plays soft. He doesn't seem very physical or aggressive. He doesn't seem to be involved enough in supporting the run or do a good enough job of rerouting receivers or interrupting timing.  Just an opinion.

    S
    Chung, Sanders, Meriweather, McGowen, Page, Barret, Lockett, Brown... Full house here. Any of these guys contracts up this year?

    DL
    Ty Warren being back "HEALTHY" will be huge IF he's feeling it and plays like his old self. He was playing on half a hip for like 2 and a half years. Ty was extended in his contract before Seymour and a year or two before Ty's contract was up because when he was healthy he was grading out better than Seymour.Unfortunately its a big IF as no one can know how he'll rebound from surgery and being older.

    Have no idea how GWarren is grading this season or if he wants to still play and loves NE. If NE does go on to win a superbowl this year, an older player like him would have filled that need/want/goal and most often times be fine with moving on to a losing team for one last final pay day.

    Then you have a ton of guys like Brace, Deaderick, Wright, Pryor, Love, Richard, Weston. These guys are improving, getting attention from the staff and for that getting playing time. Are any of them a Suh or Seymour no but are there any of those with that talent AND character available in the mid 1st round this year? Probably not since those guys typically go in or near the top 5.

    Unfortunately we don't get to see these guys practice day in and day out and you make your evaluations on everything, practices, film room, weight room, games, etc. So we will have no idea if a guy in the mid 1st round this year is worth those millions when we got a guy near the top of 2nd  2years ago who has 2 years experience in the NFL in the Pats defensive system.

    OLB
    This position needs help. ...but we've been saying it for years. It simply must be far too difficult to project to warrant taking someone that high. I get the feeling it is considered a big gamble in BB's mind most of the time trying to determine an "impact" guy in his 3-4 scheme.

    I like Cunningham a lot because he's a dirt dog like Sanders at safety. Just my opinion is that you could really use a real dynamic player at that position in BB's scheme. So the position still bothers me. I said even when TBC had 10 sacks all against the worst pass blocking lines in the NFL that season he is not a starter and well he lost his job.

    Actually none of the three, Cunningham, Ninkovich, or TBC are consistently good against the run. Which is another reason they play more safeties than corner backs at times in sub packages. It's a problem in my opinion. They need to find at least one dynamic 3 down OLB who can both anchor the outside containment on a run as well as give an OC fits getting after the QB.

    That's not to say I don't like Ninkovich either. He's another patriot dirtdog and loved the way he ran down Hester on that return at Chicago. Was surprised the announcers didn't mention it.

    ILB
    The linebackers look solid but having to let the kid go from the practice squad to go be closer to home for his family might have them looking again for depth. Especially if Spikes continues to be a knucklehead.

    Offense:

    OL
    I could see them taking a couple of linemen in the 5 picks. I truely belived the rumors of the Patriot heavy interest in Pouncey last year.

    Neil is a FA and since he almost retired and had to get IR'd because his body did not hold up this season I can see him retiring.

    Mankins can go either way, and the Patriot OL state of affairs as a whole may play a big role in if the Patriots bend a little bit in Mankins direction. I can also see him taking the route of other pst players if the Pats win a SB this year. Got rings will take Max money.

    They have Connelly and he's played very well but let's face it he's not as good as Neil or Mankins.

    Koppen isn't getting any younger and Light is a FA and is another player who could do the last deal shuffle if the Pats win a SB. I can also see the Patriots giving him another 2 year deal or a Neil deal like they for Neil this season. People love to trash Light but I have no problem with him except he's aging now.

    That leaves them with a couple of young guys on the inside in Ohrnberger and Wendell but I have no idea what they think of them. On the outside you have Ojinaka, and Vollmer obviously. Both young. You also have Kaczur, if healthy, and LeVoir. Both a bit older.

    From an outsiders perspective, they seem to need help here due to age and contract.

    QB
    Set at both start and backup but will most likely pick one up late or FA as they do every year because you never know.

    TE
    Not sure what Crumplers status is in age or contract but they would appear to be ok here unless Crumpler is done. If no Crumpler you need the same role refilled from somewhere.

    WR
    They're all back and would be set at this point. Only see a drafted one if he's BPA at some round and better than a player or two on the roster. Its all very clear to us by now that the Pat WR needs brains, heart, hands, and quickness. Not necessarily in that order. Seems to be another difficult position to project into the route sight adjustment schemes the patriots like to run.

    RB
    Add youthful depth. What is the contract status of Faulk, Taylor, Morris?

    One thing is for certain. The Patriots will make every attempt to sure up the questions/holes they have in FA based on their own grades after self evaluating.  These always enter the draft in a position of strength, even if it is only perceived by the other organizations.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    IQ,

    A couple of things.  McGowan and Page are free agents after this season.  Meriweather and Sanders are free agents after 2011.  Chung is weak in coverage.  I wouldn't say S is a full house.

    Neil is actually signed through 2011, but I agree, he probably hangs them up.  His shoulder has been an issue for awhile.  The Pats certainly have the money to extend Mankins and I believe the sides were close.  But, the Pats seldom overpay yet Mankins play is off-the-charts.  I think they get a long term deal done.  The OL has actually been a strength this year.  I would not be against giving Light a 1-2 year deal and let him retire a Patriot.  He deserves it.  Kaz could be tried at OG.  Still, I like the idea of drafting a C/OG fairly high this year to have some solid depth.

    Crump has another year left.  I think he is one of the main reasons our OL has been so good protecting Brady.  I could see him coming back next year but think we should find a blocking TE late in the draft.

    Branch is playing great but lets not forget, he's pretty fragile and he's 32.  I think a big, fast, tough WR would be a nice compliment or another route runner to groom behind Branch.  There are options all the way through the first 4 rounds.

    Faulk, Morris and Taylor's contracts all expire after this season as does BJGE.  Woodhead was extended through 2012 already.  I'd like to add a bruiser or a dynamic back and say goodbye to the others.

    I couldn't agree more on the DL.  We should address it first.  I'm rethinking that maybe we can get JJ Watt without giving up the farm. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]OLB FA David Hawthorne, SEA – At 25, Hawthorne is another one of the league’s emerging linebackers. He’s relatively unknown, but was outstanding in Lofa Tatupu’s absence a year ago. Racking up 117 tackles, 4 sacks, 8 stuffs, and 3 interceptions, it wouldn’t be surprising to see a team make a big play at Hawthorne and the throw the bank and pry him from Seattle via restricted free agency. David Harris, NYJ – Though Harris is one of the league’s best, young linebackers, the Jets may just not have the money to pay him. They’re looking at extensions to Revis, Mangold, and Ferguson in the next 2 years, in addition to a pair of free agent receivers and nearly acquired Antonio Cromartie. They’ll most likely make Harris one of their top priorities after the big 3, but Harris may be able to get more money elsewhere if he isn’t tagged. We’ll see what he decides. Lamarr Woodley, PIT – Woodley has developed into the league’s best left outside linebacker, forming a terrifying tandem in Pittsburgh. The two have accounted for 50 combined sacks over the last 2 years. With that in mind, Pittsburgh won’t let Woodley get away.
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]
    Revis and Mangold I believe were already extended. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    an OLB who plays in the 3-4 and could be available in the 2nd would be Justin Houston OLB/DE (Gerogia). 

    http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2758

    In the midst of a breakout season at Georgia, Houston is propelling himself up NFL Draft boards at a rapid rate. The outside OLB/DE showed signs of things to come with seven sacks in 2009, but nothing could have predicted this. Through nine games as a junior, Houston has a whopping 15.5 tackles for loss (10 more than any other player on the team) and nine sacks (6.5 more than any other Bulldog). He also has a ridiculous 35 quarterback hurries (23 more than any of his teammates). For good measure, Houston has added a forced fumble and a fumble recovery.

    Houston has good size at 6'3'' and 258 pounds. He looks like a defensive end, and that's exactly what he might play at the next level in a 4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 defense he can set up at rush linebacker. Houston has been clocked as fast as 4.64 in the 40-yard dash, but he will want to improve on that if he wants to establish himself as a sure-thing first-rounder. Prior to this season he looked like a third-rounder at best. If he continues at this pace and leaves early, a first-round or second round selection is possible.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet MB, I think what's really interesting about this is that how many teams can have fans arguing about two "areas that need improvement" that at worse if nothing else happens they would be better than most other teams already without adding a possible 1st or 2nd rounder to it. I mean what a freaking job BB has done to this point.  To the Warren point, very valid Faucet.  Are there any FAs that we should be looking at?  I really haven't looked at a FA DE or FA 34OLB.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, definitely a great problem to have!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]IQ, A couple of things.  McGowan and Page are free agents after this season.  Meriweather and Sanders are free agents after 2011.  Chung is weak in coverage.  I wouldn't say S is a full house. Neil is actually signed through 2011, but I agree, he probably hangs them up.  His shoulder has been an issue for awhile.  The Pats certainly have the money to extend Mankins and I believe the sides were close.  But, the Pats seldom overpay yet Mankins play is off-the-charts.  I think they get a long term deal done.  The OL has actually been a strength this year.  I would not be against giving Light a 1-2 year deal and let him retire a Patriot.  He deserves it.  Kaz could be tried at OG.  Still, I like the idea of drafting a C/OG fairly high this year to have some solid depth. Crump has another year left.  I think he is one of the main reasons our OL has been so good protecting Brady.  I could see him coming back next year but think we should find a blocking TE late in the draft. Branch is playing great but lets not forget, he's pretty fragile and he's 32.  I think a big, fast, tough WR would be a nice compliment or another route runner to groom behind Branch.  There are options all the way through the first 4 rounds. Faulk, Morris and Taylor's contracts all expire after this season as does BJGE.  Woodhead was extended through 2012 already.  I'd like to add a bruiser or a dynamic back and say goodbye to the others. I couldn't agree more on the DL.  We should address it first.  I'm rethinking that maybe we can get JJ Watt without giving up the farm. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Are you looking to replace BJGE or keep him and add depth? This guy should be the starter without a doubt next year, he has earned it ( if there is any such thing in football and i dont think there is ). He is not a superstar but maybe he is alot more than we think he is. We have the best rushing attack since Dillon and lets not take that for granted. We can't give all the credit to the TE's. Also i am really impressed with the lack of fumbles. Would love to see the record for that.

    As for Chung i think he is as good as you could hope for in coverage. His role is an in the box run stopping SS and he is in his second year. He has the speed to drop back and has shown it, I think he just needs further development on his spacing and assignments. He is always looking into the backfeild and it slows him just a step, we have also been asking him to go up against some tuff assigments, lets leave him to the TE's  and RB's and keep him away from the slot WR's when possible. So I think we are 100% set here and there is no way another SS will see the field unless there is injury. And if where talking about depth then lets stay out of the top two rounds at this position. ( I am also happy with Meri and Sanders ) but if there is no other areas of need and we see best avail on the board I'm willing to listen
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Here's how I'd like to see the first 4 rounds of the draft unfold:

    1a) Ryan Kerrigan
    1b) Gabe Carimi

    2a) Mark Ingram
    2b) Randall Cobb

    3a) Ricky Henry or Jake Kirkpatrick
    3b) Ricky Elmore

    4) Ricky Stanzi
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Faucet, I'm not against drafting a DE, OLB or OL in Rd 1, though I still think they go BPA (which could be CB) vs. an assumed need pick.  I disagree that taking a CB would result in a 2 down player while selecting a DE would automatically result in a 3-4 down player.  The argument that applies for Bodden coming back also applies to Ty Warren.  Also, who's to say that Janoris Jenkins or Brandon Harris, or another CB they identify couldn't come in and replace Bodden and be an everydown player and provide a bigger impact than any DE that's available with their pick?  I agree with your point around them taking a safe (likely starter) pick in Rd 1 which is why I go with BPA.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    MB, hate to disagree with you, but we need DE to knock down passes (Pats don't), occupy blocks.  This is a year flush with great DE class.  We need one 1A, then improve pass rush - still anemic - with OLB.  CB is much lower, and your BPA argument does not hold water!  The best CB's will be long gone Bro, by 33 or 34.  Be happy if BB picks Johnny Patrick of Louisville with a #3 and you boy Powell after that!

    All posters - let's check this guy out for5th-6th round consideration:

    Why aren't small-school players considered for awards such as the Heisman and Maxwell? Cecil Shorts of Division III Mount Union will go into his final game on Saturday -- see below -- with phenomenal stats as a wide receiver: 252 receptions, 4,615 yards, 72 touchdowns on a four-year career. Jerry Rice finished his college career -- playing in a pass-wacky spread offense that generated numbers -- with 301 receptions, 4,693 yards and 50 touchdowns. Shorts' numbers are about the same as those of football's greatest-ever receiver, who was also a small-college performer, yet Shorts gets no love from awards. And "all-around"? Shorts has played some running back, Wildcat quarterback and regular quarterback. His all-around football accomplishments exceed those of Newton, who to this point is a one-year wonder.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]an OLB who plays in the 3-4 and could be available in the 2nd would be Justin Houston OLB/DE (Gerogia).  http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2758 In the midst of a breakout season at Georgia, Houston is propelling himself up NFL Draft boards at a rapid rate. The outside OLB/DE showed signs of things to come with seven sacks in 2009, but nothing could have predicted this. Through nine games as a junior, Houston has a whopping 15.5 tackles for loss (10 more than any other player on the team) and nine sacks (6.5 more than any other Bulldog). He also has a ridiculous 35 quarterback hurries (23 more than any of his teammates). For good measure, Houston has added a forced fumble and a fumble recovery. Houston has good size at 6'3'' and 258 pounds. He looks like a defensive end, and that's exactly what he might play at the next level in a 4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 defense he can set up at rush linebacker. Houston has been clocked as fast as 4.64 in the 40-yard dash, but he will want to improve on that if he wants to establish himself as a sure-thing first-rounder. Prior to this season he looked like a third-rounder at best. If he continues at this pace and leaves early, a first-round or second round selection is possible.
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    I had a few posts about him before.  I really like this guy.  He's already playing OLB for Georgia and quietly put up some great numbers.  He's flown under the radar so far but I think once the combine goes down and workouts I think he'll shoot up the board.  Another guy I like is Jeremy Beal from Oklahoma.  He's been consistant for 3 years now and has put up some great numbers.  He has also played standing up some and has experience in coverage.  The guy has outstanding character and great teammate.  I don't think you could go wrong with either guy.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]IQ, A couple of things.  McGowan and Page are free agents after this season.  Meriweather and Sanders are free agents after 2011.  Chung is weak in coverage.  I wouldn't say S is a full house. Neil is actually signed through 2011, but I agree, he probably hangs them up.  His shoulder has been an issue for awhile.  The Pats certainly have the money to extend Mankins and I believe the sides were close.  But, the Pats seldom overpay yet Mankins play is off-the-charts.  I think they get a long term deal done.  The OL has actually been a strength this year.  I would not be against giving Light a 1-2 year deal and let him retire a Patriot.  He deserves it.  Kaz could be tried at OG.  Still, I like the idea of drafting a C/OG fairly high this year to have some solid depth. Crump has another year left.  I think he is one of the main reasons our OL has been so good protecting Brady.  I could see him coming back next year but think we should find a blocking TE late in the draft. Branch is playing great but lets not forget, he's pretty fragile and he's 32.  I think a big, fast, tough WR would be a nice compliment or another route runner to groom behind Branch.  There are options all the way through the first 4 rounds. Faulk, Morris and Taylor's contracts all expire after this season as does BJGE.  Woodhead was extended through 2012 already.  I'd like to add a bruiser or a dynamic back and say goodbye to the others. I couldn't agree more on the DL.  We should address it first.  I'm rethinking that maybe we can get JJ Watt without giving up the farm. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Seems unpatriot like to trade for a 1-year rental on page. RFA or URA?

    Branch has a histoy of being fragile for sure but tate is still basically a rookie. Edelman is still learning the position and getting better all the time. Remember those two guys are 3 and 4 and on the roster for a reason. You aslo have another rookie Price waiting as well. I guess if they draft a WR early we'll know what they think of those three.

    BJGE must be a RFA ?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : MB, hate to disagree with you, but we need DE to knock down passes (Pats don't), occupy blocks.  This is a year flush with great DE class.  We need one 1A, then improve passrush - still anemic - with OLB.  CB is much lower, and your BPA argument does not hold water!  The best CB's will be long gone Bro, by 33 or 34.  Be happy if BB picks Johnny Patrick of Louisville with a #3 and you boy Powell after that!
    Posted by fyyankees[/QUOTE]

    fyy,
    I don't mind a difference of opinion, but I think you need to re-read my post. I've already stated that I'm not against them taking a DE (Watt/Fairley) or an OLB (Kerrigan; see post one of this thread) with Oaklands pick, however I think they go BPA (Best Player Available: The player that best upgrades their team) which may be a CB (Jenkins, who also projects as an elite defensive player).  Additionally, please explain how the argument of BPA "does not hold water"? 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : MB, hate to disagree with you, but we need DE to knock down passes (Pats don't), occupy blocks.  This is a year flush with great DE class.  We need one 1A, then improve pass rush - still anemic - with OLB.  CB is much lower, and your BPA argument does not hold water!  The best CB's will be long gone Bro, by 33 or 34.  Be happy if BB picks Johnny Patrick of Louisville with a #3 and you boy Powell after that! All posters - let's check this guy out for5th-6th round consideration: Why aren't small-school players considered for awards such as the Heisman and Maxwell? Cecil Shorts of Division III Mount Union will go into his final game on Saturday -- see below -- with phenomenal stats as a wide receiver: 252 receptions, 4,615 yards, 72 touchdowns on a four-year career. Jerry Rice finished his college career -- playing in a pass-wacky spread offense that generated numbers -- with 301 receptions, 4,693 yards and 50 touchdowns. Shorts' numbers are about the same as those of football's greatest-ever receiver, who was also a small-college performer, yet Shorts gets no love from awards. And "all-around"? Shorts has played some running back, Wildcat quarterback and regular quarterback. His all-around football accomplishments exceed those of Newton, who to this point is a one-year wonder.
    Posted by fyyankees[/QUOTE]

    They generally have their own Heisman equivalent awards based on division (examples below).  They're also not proven against the same level of competition as the 1A kids so they really couldn't be considered the best player in America.

    Division 1AA- Walter Payton Award (Offensive) & Buck Buchanan (Defensive)

    Division II- Harlon Hill Award (Danny Woodhead won it in 2006 and 2007).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Here's how I'd like to see the first 4 rounds of the draft unfold: 1a) Ryan Kerrigan 1b) Gabe Carimi 2a) Mark Ingram 2b) Randall Cobb 3a) Ricky Henry or Jake Kirkpatrick 3b) Ricky Elmore 4) Ricky Stanzi
    Posted by ShiningWizard[/QUOTE]

    Won't happen. Teams are limited to taking 2 Rickys in any one draft.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***


    I think someone had it right with one of our top needs being a dominant DE, one that can occupy the OL, swat down passes, collapse the pocket, get after the QB, etc. One of the only guys I would take that fits this mold with the Oakland pick is Watts. I think he has the size, speed and aggression to play 3-4 DE very well.
    I'm not sure why so many are high on Kerrigan. I saw this guy play a few times and watched some of his tape and saw quite a few missed tackles, plus rushing up the field too fast at times, playing from behind the play quite often. I think Kerrigan is good enough to be drafted in round 1, but given his size (6'4", 270 or so), I don't think he is big enough to play 3-4 DE, nor fast enough to drop into coverage, or do the things we want as a 3-4 OLB. He would make a better 4-3 DE in the right system.

    I know we talk BPA all the time, but if Watts is around with the Raiders pick, he is a Patriot. That solves for the 3-4 DE we have been searching for since Seymour left. I would then take Beal or Houston with my 2a (if not traded) to play opposite Cunningham. That should solidify the front 7 perfectly.

    If we keep our 1B, I think we have to draft someone along the OL. As many mentioned already, Solder, Carimi, Weiszenski (spelling wrong) should all be here with our 1b.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]I think someone had it right with one of our top needs being a dominant DE, one that can occupy the OL, swat down passes, collapse the pocket, get after the QB, etc. One of the only guys I would take that fits this mold with the Oakland pick is Watts. I think he has the size, speed and aggression to play 3-4 DE very well. I'm not sure why so many are high on Kerrigan. I saw this guy play a few times and watched some of his tape and saw quite a few missed tackles, plus rushing up the field too fast at times, playing from behind the play quite often. I think Kerrigan is good enough to be drafted in round 1, but given his size (6'4", 270 or so), I don't think he is big enough to play 3-4 DE, nor fast enough to drop into coverage, or do the things we want as a 3-4 OLB. He would make a better 4-3 DE in the right system. I know we talk BPA all the time, but if Watts is around with the Raiders pick, he is a Patriot. That solves for the 3-4 DE we have been searching for since Seymour left. I would then take Beal or Houston with my 2a (if not traded) to play opposite Cunningham. That should solidify the front 7 perfectly. If we keep our 1B, I think we have to draft someone along the OL. As many mentioned already, Solder, Carimi, Weiszenski (spelling wrong) should all be here with our 1b.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]


    my thoughts exactly.  We need the pass rushing threat which came with wilfork and seymore both being doubled.  if we took watts we would have that again and houston would be a beast of a rusher.  carimi can play guard and tackle so we could slide him into the RG while resigning mankins at left guard.  Then with our first pick in the 2nd round we could pick an OT such as soldier to play right tackle and allow us to move vollmer over to left tackle where he should be. then i would take a RB with our 2b such as Daniel Thomas RB (Kansas State)

    I wouldn't be opposed to trading our 1b for a 2nd this year and a 2nd/3rd next year though.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    If there's a DE available, a stud DE that would be the pick although with more 34 teams I don't think there will be anyone left that's worthy of that pick but hope I'm wrong.

    If a DE is taken then I look at the 3rd rnd for a CB and have a pretty good one for you.  He's mostly an unknown in most circles but if you want to see a great game look at the Boise tape against Utah State.

    Curtis Marsh, 6'1" 195 he held Titus Young to 34 yards.  Young is not a 1st round talent but a talented WR in his own right.  Young has over 1100 yards and over 17 yards per catch this season. 

    He was a running back until moved to CB so still raw.  Hope to see him at the senior bowl.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Are you looking to replace BJGE or keep him and add depth? This guy should be the starter without a doubt next year, he has earned it ( if there is any such thing in football and i dont think there is ). He is not a superstar but maybe he is alot more than we think he is. We have the best rushing attack since Dillon and lets not take that for granted. We can't give all the credit to the TE's. Also i am really impressed with the lack of fumbles. Would love to see the record for that. As for Chung i think he is as good as you could hope for in coverage. His role is an in the box run stopping SS and he is in his second year. He has the speed to drop back and has shown it, I think he just needs further development on his spacing and assignments. He is always looking into the backfeild and it slows him just a step, we have also been asking him to go up against some tuff assigments, lets leave him to the TE's  and RB's and keep him away from the slot WR's when possible. So I think we are 100% set here and there is no way another SS will see the field unless there is injury. And if where talking about depth then lets stay out of the top two rounds at this position. ( I am also happy with Meri and Sanders ) but if there is no other areas of need and we see best avail on the board I'm willing to listen
    Posted by Asher77[/QUOTE]
    I meant keep Woody and BJGE and get rid of the others, Taylor, Morris, Faulk.

    Word is LaMichael James is coming out.  I think he should be the first back taken.  I don't think we'd have interest but do you guys see him getting into the top 10 and perhaps affecting Watt?  Here's my crack at the top 64 assuming all elite eligible players declare.  There is a lot of guess work at this stage pre Bowl games, pre All Star game and pre Combine.  But knowing we could get 4 of these guys is awesome.  If Watt gets past 10, we have to move up to get him.  It may only cost us our late 3rd or MIN 3rd to do it.

    RankPlayerPos
    1
    Andrew Luck
    QB
    2Patrick PetersonCB
    3Ryan MallettQB
    4Da'Quan BowersDE
    5Nick FairleyDT
    6Cam NewtonQB
    7Marcell DareusDT
    8Robert QuinnDE
    9AJ GreenWR
    10LaMichael JamesRB
    11JJ WattDE
    12Ryan KerriganDE
    13Nate SolderOT
    14Janoris JenkinsCB
    15Akeem AyersOLB
    16Prince AmukamaraCB
    17Allen BaileyDE
    18Brandon HarrisCB
    19Julio JonesWR
    20Anthony CastonzoOT
    21Justin BlackmonWR
    22Ryan BroylesWR
    23Adrian ClaybornDE
    24Alshon JefferyWR
    25Martez WilsonLB
    26Christain BallardDT
    27Dont'a HightowerILB
    28Cabe CarimiOT
    29Justin HoustonDE
    30Rodney HudsonOG
    31Stefen WisniewskiC
    32Aaron WilliamsCB
    33Cameron HeywardDT
    34Jared CrickDT
    35Ras-I DowlingCB
    36Kenny TateS
    37Lance KendricksTE
    38Mark IngramRB
    39Derek SherrodOT
    40Jeremy BealDE
    41Randall CobbWR
    42Bilal PowellRB
    43Leonard HankersonWR
    44KJ WrightOLB
    45Cameron JordanDE
    46Mark BarronS
    47Jake LockerQB
    48Jonathan BaldwinWR
    49Rahim MooreS
    50Stephen PaeaDT
    51Jurrell CaseyDT
    52Stephen SchillingOG
    53Von MillerDE
    54Kyle RudolphTE
    55Marvin AustinDT
    56Kristopher O'DowdC
    57Shane VereenRB
    58Tyron SmithOT
    59Lance MitchellS
    60Brandon BurtonS
    61Austin PettisWR
    62DeMarcus LoveOT
    63John MoffittOG
    64Chimdi ChekwaCB
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]If there's a DE available, a stud DE that would be the pick although with more 34 teams I don't think there will be anyone left that's worthy of that pick but hope I'm wrong. If a DE is taken then I look at the 3rd rnd for a CB and have a pretty good one for you.  He's mostly an unknown in most circles but if you want to see a great game look at the Boise tape against Utah State. Curtis Marsh, 6'1" 195 he held Titus Young to 34 yards.  Young is not a 1st round talent but a talented WR in his own right.  Young has over 1100 yards and over 17 yards per catch this season.  He was a running back until moved to CB so still raw.  Hope to see him at the senior bowl.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Marsh looks pretty good in the quick search I will have to do more research on him.

    Right now I'm thinking Chumdi Chekwa in the 3rd.  He has faced a higher level of competition playing at Ohio State and is a great leader.  Being that i went to Ohio state and have seen all of his games i can tell you this kid is a player!  Qb's tend to avoid him and he is all around the ball.

    here is an analysis of him by http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1117485:

    Reads the quarterback's eyes and reacts quickly to the ball in the air. Often involved in plays after coming off his man because he's looking into the backfield, but will also get beat when falling for pump fakes and double moves because of his aggressiveness.

    Man Coverage: Has quick feet and fluid hips to stay with most receiver throughout most routes. Smooth, quick pedal when not in press-bail, patient waiting for his man to make the first move off the line before committing. Maintains contact down the sideline, but needs to find the ball in the air more consistently. Needs to know where his help comes from, gets in trouble playing inside position and getting beat outside. Will give up strength to many NFL receivers, who will shield him with their bodies on slant patterns and go through him on jump balls (though his vertical gives him a chance to break up those passes). Plays well off the line and in press-bail. Will mix it up just inside the five yard mark, but does not usually get his hands on his man at the line of scrimmage, backpedaling or bailing per the team's scheme.

    Zone Coverage: Could excel as a zone corner because of his toughness, change of direction ability and quickness to the ball. Reads routes and the eyes of the quarterback very well, comes off his man to pick up underneath out route and makes a play on the ball. Able to bring back receivers quickly after the catch. Transitions well from his low, quick pedal to plant and drive. Able to knock away passes in front of the receiver or as the ball is being caught because of his length and closing speed. He must prove discipline to stay in his zone until the ball is away, or else quarterbacks and receivers will take advantage of the vacated area.

    Closing/Recovery: Excellent closing speed to make tackles or get to the receiver while the ball is in the air. Plants and drives quickly after recognizing stop or slant routes when playing off the receiver. Adept at reaching in front of receivers to knock away passes without interfering-though he will commit that penalty when not looking around for the ball fast enough. Recovers well if receiver gets inside position down the field, using his speed to get back to the play, but is at times a step late to get back to deep balls if biting on double move. Must work on his hands for the interception.

    Run Support: Should be capable of chopping down running backs at the next level, but won't be a superstar in this part of his game. Gives good effort to release himself from receiver blocks but is more effective using his speed and instincts to beat them. Comes on run blitzes off the edge; forces plays inside but needs to work on defeating fullback blocks with his hands to be a factor in the tackle.

    Tackling: Is not a physically imposing cornerback, but has the length and tenacity to wrap and drag down most receivers after the catch. Effective cut tackler against the run when he keeps his head up; will escort backs out of bounds as well. Lays a shoulder into receivers after the catch if playing off. Can be easily eluded in space after trying to break down, however, looks a bit clumsy at times approaching ballcarriers in the open field. Lack of strength and bulk may cause him issues bringing down larger NFL receivers on the outside.

    Intangibles: Tough, durable player. Has the confidence to come back and make a good play after giving up a touchdown. Missed start with a left shoulder injury in October 2008, still played in the game.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    another guy i have recently become aware of is

    Cecil Shorts III, WR, (Mount Union) Ht: 6-0 40: 4.43 had 252 receptions, 4,615 yards, 72 touchdowns on a four-year career.  Shorts has played some running back, Wildcat quarterback, kick returner and regular quarterback as well. Projection 4th round

     

    he has similar college numbers as jerry rice and is a relative unknown.
     

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