2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Interestingly teams picking first need OL help but none of the OTs are top 10 worthy, Castonzo is close.  We'd have the ability to move up into the top 10 if there was a player there we really wanted.  Of the corners being discussed as first rounders, only Patrick Peterson to me makes any sense to take in the first round.  Peterson grades out at 98 tied with Andrew Luck at the top of the draft.  JJ Watt is omitted from the below list.  Amukamara isn't that good.  I caught three of his games and he wasn't that impressive to me.  He was burned a few times and he doesn't have a single interception.  SCOUTS INC.'S TOP 32 Player Pos. School Grade 1. Andrew Luck * QB Stanford 98 2. Patrick Peterson * CB LSU 98 3. Da'Quan Bowers * DE Clemson 97 4. Marcell Dareus * DT Alabama 97 5. Robert Quinn * DE North Carolina 96 6. A.J. Green * WR Georgia 96 7. Stephen Paea DT Oregon State 96 8. Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska 96 9. Nick Fairley DT Auburn 95 10. Anthony Castonzo OT Boston Coll. 95 11. Janoris Jenkins * CB Florida 95 12. Akeem Ayers * OLB UCLA 94 13. Adrian Clayborn DE Iowa 94 14. Jake Locker QB Washington 94 15. Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin 93 16. Allen Bailey DE Miami 93 17. Mark Ingram * RB Alabama 93 18. Ryan Mallett * QB Arkansas 92 19. Nate Solder OT Colorado 91 20. Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue 91 21. Von Miller OLB Texas A&M 91 22. Aaron Williams * CB Texas 90 23. Drake Nevis DT LSU 90 24. Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State 90 25. Derek Sherrod OT Miss. St. 90 26. Jeremy Beal OLB Oklahoma 90 27. Kyle Rudolph * TE Notre Dame 90 28. Demarcus Love * OT Arkansas 89 29. Rodney Hudson C Florida State 89 30. Rahim Moore * S UCLA 89 31. Cameron Jordan DE California 89 32. Brandon Burton * CB Utah 89 * denotes draft-eligible underclassman
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    not tha it matters to pats fans, but i really can't figure out the fascination with jake locker. oh well..i guess it matters that if someone burns a pick on him, there's a higher likelihood of the pats getting the guys they want.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from auchhhhhhhhhhh. Show auchhhhhhhhhhh's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    yesterday i was thinking about this... Many mock drafts have us pickind a defensive lineman early eith the raiders pick... but the D LINE is not our biggest need.

    Warren will be back, plus we have brace, deadrick, pryor, wright, the other warren, love. I think if 1 of the young guys takes a jump like Chung or something, we can be set.

    Now, the LINEBACKER position, the key in our defensive style is not even complete. We have mayo, spikes and Cunningham... they are OK, but what then ???

    Guyton, fletcher, ninkovich, Tully... if the pats want to build a defense for years to come, the have at least take 2 good players at LB via DRAFT or FA.

    The same think happens with the CB in my opinion... Bodden will be back, then we have DMC and that´s it. Do not get me wrong i love butler, arrington and wilhite... but you can win long term with those guys as your CB corps

    The OLINE looks like is gonna have an overhaul... Sea bass, mankins stays, and almost everyone else could be gone... 

    OUR NEEDS

    #1.- OLB

    #2.- CB

    #3.- DE

    #4.- OL

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : good thing there are no TEs. the two-headed beast is something i want to stay unique with nwe for a few years.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    Not often IMO you have talent at TE like BB was able to get in Gronk and Hern.  Each is a unique talent, Gronk is the perfect TE type, big strong can block, catch and get you YAC.  Hern is a WR in a TE's body, these two guys should make each other better and the biggest impact is having an all time pro like Crump teaching them the ropes.  Teams will try but the talent might not be the same as what we have, love these two TEs.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Faucet. Appreciate the work on mocks, but how is it that three CBs go in the top ten and Newton lasts until 35. IMO that if Newton is available with the Carolina 2nd round pick Belichick could trade for a 1st in 2012.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]I have to think that the odds of the Pats keeping and selecting 6 guys thru the first 3 rounds has to be nil.  My guess is they trade their pick in round 1 for a    2nd round pick in 2011 and future #1 in 2012.
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]
    I think there is an excellent chance the Patriots still make 6 picks in the first three rounds, just not where they are slotted.  Here is what they did last year.

    # 22 and # 24 - Denver receives New England's 2010 1st round pick (# 22) for Denver's 2010 # 24 (via Phil.) and a 2010 4th round pick (# 113)
    # 24 and # 27 - Dallas receives New England's 2010 1st round pick (via Denver, via Phil.), and a 2010 4th round pick for Dallas' 2010 1st round pick (# 27) and a 2010 3rd Round pick.
    # 42 and # 44 New England receives Oakland's 2010 2nd round pick (#42) for a 2010 2nd round pick (#44) and 2010 6th round pick
    # 44 - New England receives Jacksonville's 2010 2nd Round Pick, and their 2009 7th Round Pick for New England's 2009 3rd Round Pick (#91).
    # 47 and # 58 - Arizona receives New England's 2010 2nd round pick (#47) for Arizona's 2010 2nd round pick (# 58) and a 3rd round pick (#89)
    # 47 - New England receives Tennessee's 2010 2nd Round Pick for their 2009 3rd Round Pick (#89)
    # 85 – The Cleveland Browns receive the Oakland Raiders 2010 3rd round pick (via NE) for DE Kamerion Wimbley. The Oakland Raiders receive the New England Patriots 2010 3rd round and 5th round pick for DE Derrick Burgess.
    # 89 - Arizona receives New England's 2010 2nd round pick (#47) for Arizona's 2010 2nd round pick (# 58) and a 3rd round pick (#89)
    # 89 - The New England Patriots receive Carolina's 2011 2nd round pick.
    # 231 - The New England Patriots receive their own 2010 7th pick back from the Denver Broncos for OL Russ Hochstein. Denver originally received New England’s 2010 7th round pick and Le Kevin Smith for a 2010 5th round pick. The New England Patriots receive the Philadelphia Eagles 2010 7th round pick and WR Greg Lewis for a 2009 5th round pick.


    In the first 5 rounds, the Patriots were originally slotted at #22, 44, 47, 53 and the 21st pick of the 4th round.  They did not have a 3rd or 5th round pick before the draft.  They ended up drafting:

    #27 Devin McCourty
    #42 Rob Gronkowski
    #53 Jermaine Cunningham
    #62 Brandon Spikes
    #90 Taylor Price
    #113 Aaron Hernandez
    #150 Zoltan Mesko

    So, basically the Pats traded down and out and actually drafted 7 players in the first 5 rounds where they originally had 5 picks, plus they picked up Carolina's 2011 2nd round pick which looks to be #33 overall.  They will do something like this again.  I can see them trading #33 for sure.  I'll bet my car on it.  With a night to negotiate they will receive a ton of offers.  It likely will include a modest trade down and a 2012 1st or 2nd round pick (depending on the team).

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsiefan. Show pumpsiefan's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    would any of you guys give up our 1st and 2nd round picks (not Oak or Car)  plus a couple of players (Brace and Tate) to the Cards for Larry Fitzgerald? Would that be enough to entice the Cards who obviously have to enter a 3-4 year rebulding period.
    I still think the key to Pat's draft is who they think they can get in free agency (Ronnie Brown? Malcom Floyd?) and who they might get in a trade. Pat's needs are obvious - DE, OLB, OL, RB, CB and WR in that order. All of them can't be met in the draft
     
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    [QUOTE]would any of you guys give up our 1st and 2nd round picks (not Oak or Car)  plus a couple of players (Brace and Tate) to the Cards for Larry Fitzgerald? Would that be enough to entice the Cards who obviously have to enter a 3-4 year rebulding period. I still think the key to Pat's draft is who they think they can get in free agency (Ronnie Brown? Malcom Floyd?) and who they might get in a trade. Pat's needs are obvious - DE, OLB, OL, RB, CB and WR in that order. All of them can't be met in the draft
    Posted by pumpsiefan[/QUOTE]

    a 1st 2nd and those 2 guys?  no thanks.  Not when we will have to pay a big salary and sign an extension in a year if I recall correctly.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

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    [QUOTE]would any of you guys give up our 1st and 2nd round picks (not Oak or Car)  plus a couple of players (Brace and Tate) to the Cards for Larry Fitzgerald? Would that be enough to entice the Cards who obviously have to enter a 3-4 year rebulding period. I still think the key to Pat's draft is who they think they can get in free agency (Ronnie Brown? Malcom Floyd?) and who they might get in a trade. Pat's needs are obvious - DE, OLB, OL, RB, CB and WR in that order. All of them can't be met in the draft
    Posted by pumpsiefan[/QUOTE]

    No thank you. I understand Fitzgerald is an unique talent, but no way I give up Brace, Tate and a draft pick for two for Fitzgerald, especially given his salary requirements. I'd rather hold on to Brace and Tate, draft well, and pay Mankins.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Pumpsiefan:Actually,the Patriots have the requisite draft picks to fill the six the six postions you correctly listed.The question is would want rookies starting at these six slots.Two or three,no problem,five or six,that's a lot of inexperience.I do see them going after a veteran RB,a couple of offensive linemen,a cornerback(unless Butler shows a lot the reat of the way)and an olb'er in free agency.Which,if any,of these positions they fill with FA's will alter their draft plans,but I don't see it changing to a significant degree.What would shake up their plans would be if a player or two slips big-big to them as they did last year.Believe it,they would be thrilled to again have to alter their plans because someone who they had rated higher than the draft choice they can use to get him. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    There is no way I'd do that deal.  Look what Baltimore gave up for Boldin.  They got Boldin and a 5th round pick for a 3rd and 4th.  Granted Boldin is 3 years older than Fitzgerald but their production is very similar.

    Fitzgerald is ranked 15th with 861 yards and 5 TD
    Boldin is ranked 18th with 811 yards and 7 TD

    On March 5, 2010 Boldin was traded to the Baltimore Ravens along with a 2010 fifth-round draft pick for Baltimore's 2010 third- and fourth-round picks. Boldin agreed to a three-year deal worth $25 million plus the one year he had left on his current deal which comes to four years worth $28 million, $10 million guaranteed.[7] On September 26 2010, he became the fastest player in NFL history to have 600 receptions in just 98 games.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Now if there was a player we covet sitting there at #6 where the Cardinals currently are we could trade our #17, 32 and 33 for their 6 and 38.  The point value would be the same.  But, a move like that would be very un-BB like.  Nick Fairley or AJ Green might be interesting at #6.  Patrick Peterson doesn't get past Detroit, IMO.  The Cardinals need a QB and if Luck, Newton and Mallet are gone by #6, they may as well try to trade down and pick up an additional pick. They could get Locker at #17 or maybe even #32 or Ponder later on.

    We got that CAR pick by trading #89 last year so to combine it with the Seymour pick to land the next Seymour isn't a bad value move if you look at it like that. AJ Green could be the next Randy Moss (hopefully without the attitude), so that would be great value too to get a future HoF type WR here.  Can you image adding Green to our already insanely good offense?  I think I would like the Fairley move better if we were to do something like this.

    But, I like the idea of taking 17 and getting Watt there or perhaps using #64 and #17 to get Watt, that way we would basically have 3 first round picks.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Have the Redskins just committed to a QB in the draft by sitting McNabb to look at what they have at the QB spot?      No reply needed     You guys are fun to read and THANKS 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Have the Redskins just committed to a QB in the draft by sitting McNabb to look at what they have at the QB spot?      No reply needed     You guys are fun to read and THANKS   
    Posted by ohyes[/QUOTE]
    I think WAS would love a crack at drafting a top QB prospect.  Problem is there most likely won't be one available for them unless they trade up.  Of the bottom 10 teams, 8 are likely in the market including CAR, CIN, BUF, ARI, SF, WAS, TEN and MIN.  Perhaps CAR, CIN, BUF and SF look to fill other needs but if Jake Locker declares as expected, CAR would be foolish not to take him.  I don't think Clausen is the answer there.  I think CIN would be all over AJ Green to address their aging WR corps.  DET would be ecstatic to have Patrick Peterson fall into their laps.  This brings us to DEN.  They've invested heavily at the QB position.  They are horrible at stopping the run and at running the ball.  I think 4 is too high for any RB so I think they would go with Nick Fairley at this point unless they can trade down.

    The big question for me is who goes after Cam Newton?  He makes sense in BUF and maybe even DAL if they are getting fed up with Romo.  If he slips past them I think ARI would be a logical place.  DAL needs OL help but this is a little early so they look to trade down.  If they can't find a partner, I think they would be forced to take an OT, whomever they like most, Castonzo, Solder etc.  DAL could also target DL, Marcell Darius perhaps?  But if Newton and or Mallett is still on the board at #6, I could see MIN coming up from 11 to jump WAS to take one of these QBs.  There is no way DAL will allow WAS to land one of these guys and moving back to the 11 spot will still get them a top OT.  The problem for MIN is they don't have a 3rd round pick (we have it) so they would have to offer up their 2nd and perhaps get DAL's 4th back or something.

    Mallett has to be in the discussion too for these QB needy teams.  I think the following players will go in the top 10, who joins them is uncertain at this point.

    Luck
    Mallett
    Newton
    Green
    Peterson
    Fairley
    Bowers
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Faucet. Appreciate the work on mocks, but how is it that three CBs go in the top ten and Newton lasts until 35. IMO that if Newton is available with the Carolina 2nd round pick Belichick could trade for a 1st in 2012.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]
    Those aren't my Mocks.  I think Newton goes top 10.  He could even go #1 overall to CAR.  When you are dead last in Offense and have the chance to land a QB that can run and throw, it makes Newton very tempting since he is instant offense.  Newton is a big Michael Vick. 

    I do think you are correct about us trading #33 but I wouldn't trade it for a 2012 first.  #33 is basically already a first round pick and you may only move up a few spots.  Someone made a good point about upgrading LB as a top need.  There are a few LBs like Ayers, Hightower, Wilson and maybe even Von Miller that could be had in the mid twenties.  If Mb and Pats are correct we could go CB again here.  There a plenty of CB options in the first.  I could see us trading down with that Raider pick a couple of times and picking up a couple of thirds.  I could then see us trading down 32 and or 33 five to 6 spots each picking up a 3rd or 4th which we would later trade up a round into 2012.  This has really become a pattern for the Pats of late. 

    I'm not one who thinks we draft a LT anymore.  I think Vollmer will move over there meaning we can draft a RT later on perhaps in the 3rd round.  This draft is loaded with RB and WR talent from the 2nd to the 4th round.  If we look at what we did over the past two drafts we basically took every chance we could to move down to acquire picks, some we used, some we traded into future drafts.  On a rare occassion for a player we really covet, we move up a few spots (Gronk). 

    There was a story last year, don't remember where I saw it, but it said BB only has 30-40 guys on his board spread out in each round.  So on average he has 5-6 guys for each round that he likes.  He specifically targets those guys knowing what other teams will likely do so he doesn't draft his guy too early or late.  I think this rings true.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    Let's say for instance that BB likes Ayers, Jenkins, Harris, Hightower, and Wilson.  He figures he should have four of these guys left on the board when the Raider pick comes up.  Let's assume the Raider pick is #16.  Knowing the needs of the teams behind him he figures he can drop back 4-5 spots and pick up a 3rd and still land one of those guys.  After doing that and if there are 3 of his guys still there, he would be willing to drop back again.  Let's say now he goes from 20 to 25.  He can pick up another 3rd and finally draft his guy.

    Let's say for sake of discussion that he drafts Janoris Jenkins, the CB out of Florida.  He likes Florida players as we know.  Now we move to 32/33.  If one of his guys is still there for instance Hightower or Wilson, he takes him.  Let's say it's Martez Wilson, the big, ultra fast ILB from Illinois.  BB comes out of the first round having nailed 2 of his choices a CB and a LB and he picked up 2 third rounders, picks 84 and 89.

    We move to Day 2 and the Pats are first on the board.  The phone has been ringing all night.  Some team will over pay.  I'm guessing we could drop back 8-10 spots and pick up a 2012 2nd.  BB has 5 more players on his board for the 2nd round.  Let's say hypothetically he likes Hankerson, Powell, Cobb, Barron and Wright.  Let's say he goes with Mark Barron after his buddy Nick Saban talks him up.  We've now addressed our biggest need on paper, our secondary, which is ranked 31st in a big way AND we gained a 2012 2nd in the process.  But, BB isn't done.  He has a pick at 64.  We get to pick 52 and one of his guys is still there, let's say it is AJ Wright, he pulls the trigger giving up 64 and 96 to take him.  He has now landed 2 of his 5 covetted players and he still has three 3rd round picks coming at 75, 84 and 89.

    Along comes 75 and some fool coach/GM desparate to win now to save their job gives up their 2012 2nd and their 2011 4th, pick 102.  Done.  We get to 84 and there's big John Clay sitting there.  BB wants a big back for short yardage situations and to replace Morris and Taylor, boom, he's a Patriot.  Now we are at #89.  Light signed on for 2 more years and Mankins extended for a 5 year deal but a little depth on the right side of the line would be nice.  Big Marcus Cannon, a RT in college is sitting there.  BB figures he'll kick him inside to RG and see how the competition goes with Connolly since Neal has retired.

    We move to Day 3 pick 102.  Austin Pettis is just hanging around waiting for his phone to ring.  Because of the depth at WR he's there a round later than he should be.  BB thinks a big tall WR might be nice to add to the roster.  Taylor Price hasn't emerged yet so let's see how Pettis looks in camp.  We move on to the last pick of the 4th round and another foolish GM puts his 2012 3rd on the table.  BB figures his cupboards are full, so why not?  He still has a pair of 6 rounders coming from the comp pick for Watson and from the Thomas trade.

    In summary, we pick up a pair of 2nds for 2012 and an additional 3rd.  We again have 3 seconds and 2 thirds, that's 6 picks in the top 100 AGAIN for 2012.  And, oh by the way, we drafted the following:

    CB Janoris Jenkins
    ILB Martez Wilson
    SS Mark Barron
    OLB AJ Wright
    RB John Clay
    RG Marcus Cannon
    WR Austin Pettis

    Suprisingly, we didn't address the DL.  Apparently  BB is happy getting Ty Warren back and likes the progress of his young guys.  


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Let's say for instance that BB likes Ayers, Jenkins, Harris, Hightower, and Wilson.  He figures he should have four of these guys left on the board when the Raider pick comes up.  Let's assume the Raider pick is #16.  Knowing the needs of the teams behind him he figures he can drop back 4-5 spots and pick up a 3rd and still land one of those guys.  After doing that and if there are 3 of his guys still there, he would be willing to drop back again.  Let's say now he goes from 20 to 25.  He can pick up another 3rd and finally draft his guy. Let's say for sake of discussion that he drafts Janoris Jenkins , the CB out of Florida.  He likes Florida players as we know.  Now we move to 32/33.  If one of his guys is still there for instance Hightower or Wilson, he takes him.  Let's say it's Martez Wilson , the big, ultra fast ILB from Illinois.  BB comes out of the first round having nailed 2 of his choices a CB and a LB and he picked up 2 third rounders, picks 84 and 89. We move to Day 2 and the Pats are first on the board.  The phone has been ringing all night.  Some team will over pay.  I'm guessing we could drop back 8-10 spots and pick up a 2012 2nd.  BB has 5 more players on his board for the 2nd round.  Let's say hypothetically he likes Hankerson, Powell, Cobb, Barron and Wright.  Let's say he goes with Mark Barron after his buddy Nick Saban talks him up.  We've now addressed our biggest need on paper, our secondary, which is ranked 31st in a big way AND we gained a 2012 2nd in the process.  But, BB isn't done.  He has a pick at 64.  We get to pick 52 and one of his guys is still there, let's say it is AJ Wright , he pulls the trigger giving up 64 and 96 to take him.  He has now landed 2 of his 5 covetted players and he still has three 3rd round picks coming at 75, 84 and 89. Along comes 75 and some fool coach/GM desparate to win now to save their job gives up their 2012 2nd and their 2011 4th, pick 102.  Done.  We get to 84 and there's big John Clay sitting there.  BB wants a big back for short yardage situations and to replace Morris and Taylor, boom, he's a Patriot.  Now we are at #89.  Light signed on for 2 more years and Mankins extended for a 5 year deal but a little depth on the right side of the line would be nice.  Big Marcus Cannon , a RT in college is sitting there.  BB figures he'll kick him inside to RG and see how the competition goes with Connolly since Neal has retired. We move to Day 3 pick 102.  Austin Pettis is just hanging around waiting for his phone to ring.  Because of the depth at WR he's there a round later than he should be.  BB thinks a big tall WR might be nice to add to the roster.  Taylor Price hasn't emerged yet so let's see how Pettis looks in camp.  We move on to the last pick of the 4th round and another foolish GM puts his 2012 3rd on the table.  BB figures his cupboards are full, so why not?  He still has a pair of 6 rounders coming from the comp pick for Watson and from the Thomas trade. In summary, we pick up a pair of 2nds for 2012 and an additional 3rd.  We again have 3 seconds and 2 thirds, that's 6 picks in the top 100 AGAIN for 2012.  And, oh by the way, we drafted the following: CB Janoris Jenkins ILB Martez Wilson SS Mark Barron OLB AJ Wright RB John Clay RG Marcus Cannon WR Austin Pettis Suprisingly, we didn't address the DL.  Apparently  BB is happy getting Ty Warren back and likes the progress of his young guys.  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet,
    Good stuff, man.  You presented some pretty realistic scenarios.

    Jenkins, Wilson and Barron make a ton of sense (I also still love Herzlich as a versatile option at ILB/OLB at some point in rd 2 or 3).  I prefer Brooks Reed to KJ Wright but both look to be quality players; I'm not as high on Clay as it appears that any back in that system is having success, though he does possess good size and power which is something BB likes and I don't think Cannon is a fit anywhere on their offensive line.  He's simply too big for their preferences and is more of a Steeler type OL.  At WR  I'm liking guys that seem to fit their scheme and preferences (using quickness/agility/fluidity/solid routes and defensive scheme recognition to create seperation etc.).  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Julio in Foxboro, but I'm also high on seldom talked about guys like Matt Szczur (5-11 205 Villanova) and Jeremy Kerley (5-10 189) in the rd 4-6 range that provide said preferences and also offer a ton of versatility). 

    With the way Benny has been playing and the possibility of landing a guy like Brian Leonard in FA, it wouldn't suprise me if they ignore the RB position until the late rounds (Robert Hughes/Matt Asiata/Keith Payne etc.) or rookie free agency.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    What seems crazy to me is that there are alot of different names floating around as 1st round talent.  I vaguely remember in years past that the top 20 would be set around this time of year.  But each mock draft shows something different in the top 5, let alone top 20. 

    There is no consensus #1 either and this bodes well for BB.  When chaos persues, BB rides clear of it and makes good choices.

    With that said, I'm not sure which position he will go with.  I would love a top notch RB bit BJGE is doing well.  I would be pumped if BB went OL but he does a great job drafting in the later rounds instead.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***


    Agreed. Enjoyed reading your scenario Faucet, just don't agree with all the players listed and at the spots taken.

    If the Pats are going to draft a CB in round 1, my bet is Brandon Harris with the Raiders pick. I think he is heads and shoulders over Jenkins, and he has a similar style of play to DMC (physical, aggressive, can play pass/run equally as effective). I think Harris makes it down to the Raiders pick...at least that is my hope... 

    Where I could see the Pats playing a bit in terms of trading back is with their pick wherever it ends up..hopefully at 32. Here they could go a ton of direction, trading down into round 2 (where I still think they could get MWilson if he's the target), and possibly use 33 (if they keep it) on a guy like Watts. I think Watts could go as far as 33. they trade their 1st for a teams 2nd and whatever would make up the point differential.

    They could realisticaly walk out of round 1 with Harris and Watts (at 33), and still have 2 more 2nd round picks (their original plus the traded pick). In the 2nd we could grab your guy MWilson, or go a number of directions at OLB (Houston, Beal, Friday (who I like a lot)). That gives us another 2nd to use on a OL, and here there are plenty for the taking.

    Realistically (if I'm not off my rocker), we could walk out of the first 2 rounds with Harris, Watts, Houston/Beal/Friday, and an OL (take your pick at the end of the 2nd round).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    1a. JJ Watts, DE/DT (Wisconsin) 6-6, 292

    “Watt is one of those players that is simply playing his way into national attention. He is a blue-collar player who simply outworks and outhustles his opponent by wearing them down over the course of a game. Watt has the size and strength to play in either a 4-3 or 3-4 defensive line. He has a frame that could still add on weight. He is on both the Lombardi Trophy and Bronco Nagurski Trophy watch lists. Watt began his career as tight end at Central Michigan before transferring to Wisconsin and redshirting for a year in 2008. He moved to defensive end in 2009 and started every game. Plays great against the run, using his shoulders and arms to fight for position. Great vision and makes quick adjustments to the ball-carrier. Not a pure pass rusher, relies heavily on his strength and athleticism to beat slower offensive linemen. Watt progressed very rapidly and has some versatility along the Badgers' defensive line. Can play almost any position along the line. He uses a quick first step to dig into blockers, preferring to bull rush into them.” http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2727

    1b. Gabe Carimi, OL, (Wisconsin) 6’7 wt: 325

    Carimi is a mauler that will open up holes in the running game and is a solid presence against the pass rush. He can play either left or right tackle.

    2a. (trade down to later in the round and pick up an additional 4th round pick)

    Justin Houston OLB/DE (Georgia)

    Houston has good size at 6'3'' and 258 pounds. He looks like a defensive end, and that's exactly what he might play at the next level in a 4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 defense he can set up at rush linebacker. Has experience playing OLB in the 3-4 defense. Houston has been clocked as fast as 4.64 in the 40-yard dash. Through nine games as a junior, Houston has a whopping 15.5 tackles for loss  and nine sacks. He also has ridiculous 35 quarterback hurries, a forced fumble, and a fumble recovery.

    2b. Daniel Thomas RB (Kansas State) or Mikel Leshoure, RB, (Illinois), 

    Thomas rushed for 1,265 yards and 11 touchdowns. He was even third on the team with 25 receptions for 257 yards.  Thomas has proven that he can carry the load and at 228 pounds, he has the size to be a bruising back in the NFL.  He may not be quite as explosive as some others, but he is an every down back.

    3a. (trade into a 2012 2nd round pick) or Ben Ijalana OG/OT Villanova 6’4” 320

    You want running lanes? Ben will give you running lanes. If Logan Mankins and Stephen Neal aren’t back in town next year, Ijalana would be a decent replacement.

    3b. Chimdi Chekwa, CB (Ohio State), 6-0, 190, 4.42

    4. Owen Marecic, FB/LB (Stanford) 6-1, 245

    He is really a fullback, but he is also one heck of a special teams player who can make plays no matter what the situation may be. He has done a superb job blocking for the young Stanford backfield.  For an NFL team that actually uses a fullback, Marecic will be a steal in the fourth or fifth round.

    4b. (b/c of trade down of 2a) Cecil Shorts III, WR, (Mount Union) 6’0”

    40: 4.43 had 252 receptions, 4,615 yards, 72 touchdowns on a four-year career.  Shorts has played some running back, Wildcat quarterback, kick returner and regular quarterback as well.

    5. Zach Hurd, OG, (UConn) 6’7” 325 or John Bender, OG, (Nevada) 6’8” 325

    -Hurd is a massive blocker who stands out on film.  Powerful at the point, Hurd easily turns defenders off the line run blocking or anchors in pass protection.   He quickly gets his hands into opponents and keeps his feet moving yet Hurd is better in a small area as he’s exploited by quick, nimble defenders.

    -Huge size and wingspan coupled with good footwork and overall mechanics. Bender, while huge is still mobile enough to get down-field and make second level blocks.  Converted from tackle, lacks speed typically found in a guard. Can be beaten by speed rush.

    6. Alex Henery, K, (Nebraska) 6’2” 175

    We don’t know how Gostowski is going to recover and he has to be resigned.  He has a strong leg with a career long field of 57 yards. He connected on 56 of his 57 PATs. He also made 18 of 21 field goals, with two of those misses from 50 yards or more. But Henery is also a solid punter

    6. (Compensatory for watson) Allen Bradford, RB, USC 5’11” 235

    Bradford is a load. He has a powerful body, topping 230lbs and he runs very hard between the tackles. What separates him from other big backs is his breakaway speed. Give him the slightest opening, and he will hit the hole and out run the defense to the end zone.  Injury issues and has some problems holding on to the ball.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : Faucet, Good stuff, man.  You presented some pretty realistic scenarios. Jenkins, Wilson and Barron make a ton of sense (I also still love Herzlich as a versatile option at ILB/OLB at some point in rd 2 or 3).  I prefer Brooks Reed to KJ Wright but both look to be quality players; I'm not as high on Clay as it appears that any back in that system is having success, though he does possess good size and power which is something BB likes and I don't think Cannon is a fit anywhere on their offensive line.  He's simply too big for their preferences and is more of a Steeler type OL.  At WR  I'm liking guys that seem to fit their scheme and preferences (using quickness/agility/fluidity/solid routes and defensive scheme recognition to create seperation etc.).  Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Julio in Foxboro, but I'm also high on seldom talked about guys like Matt Szczur (5-11 205 Villanova) and Jeremy Kerley (5-10 189) in the rd 4-6 range that provide said preferences and also offer a ton of versatility).  With the way Benny has been playing and the possibility of landing a guy like Brian Leonard in FA, it wouldn't suprise me if they ignore the RB position until the late rounds (Robert Hughes/Matt Asiata/Keith Payne etc.) or rookie free agency.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Thanks Mb, my point was not so much about the players, rather the thought process and maneuvering that goes on.  You can plug in whomever you want.  The past two drafts we made moves like this to get future picks.  Other teams know that when the Pats are on the clock, their pick is almost always for sale.

    I am impressed with Brooks Reed too.  I caught the Arizona/Arizona State game and Reed impressed me much more than Ricky Elmore.  Reed was in on every play and every down.  Elmore seemed to be used much more situationally.  However, my concern with either is the same I have with Kerrigan and the other DE tweener types.  Can they play standing up and would they upgrade Cunningham and/or Ninkovich?  I like Reeds motor and he is relentless getting after the QB or ball carrier.  At least with KJ Wright, he plays the position now.  I've seen him play 3-4 times now and looking forward to his bowl game.  I've been impressed thus far.

    As for Clay, I'm not sold on him either.  You or I could probably average 4 ypc behind that WIS OL.  My point is I think Benny and Woody are the foundations and we need a big back to get the tough yard. 

    Yes, Matt Szczur has been impressive.  He had a big game against Appl St, 3 TD, over 100 yards, and a passing TD.  He might be a great option in the 4th. 

    I still very much hope we can get JJ Watt and pick up a CB later on.  I just keep throwing different ideas out there because the possibilities are endless. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Agreed. Enjoyed reading your scenario Faucet, just don't agree with all the players listed and at the spots taken. If the Pats are going to draft a CB in round 1, my bet is Brandon Harris with the Raiders pick. I think he is heads and shoulders over Jenkins, and he has a similar style of play to DMC (physical, aggressive, can play pass/run equally as effective). I think Harris makes it down to the Raiders pick...at least that is my hope...  Where I could see the Pats playing a bit in terms of trading back is with their pick wherever it ends up..hopefully at 32. Here they could go a ton of direction, trading down into round 2 (where I still think they could get MWilson if he's the target), and possibly use 33 (if they keep it) on a guy like Watts. I think Watts could go as far as 33. they trade their 1st for a teams 2nd and whatever would make up the point differential. They could realisticaly walk out of round 1 with Harris and Watts (at 33), and still have 2 more 2nd round picks (their original plus the traded pick). In the 2nd we could grab your guy MWilson, or go a number of directions at OLB (Houston, Beal, Friday (who I like a lot)). That gives us another 2nd to use on a OL, and here there are plenty for the taking. Realistically (if I'm not off my rocker), we could walk out of the first 2 rounds with Harris, Watts, Houston/Beal/Friday, and an OL (take your pick at the end of the 2nd round).
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    JJ Watt is a top 10 talent IMO.  I don't think he's gotten the notice on most draft sight because he's a junior but he's a 4 year junior and I'm pretty sure he's coming out.  I think JJ Watt will move up boards after WIS destroys TCU.  It will be interesting to see what he does against Marcus Cannon.  A lot of guys on here don't think much of Cannon.  He is massive but he's also pretty athletic.  If Watt dominates him, that would be the final check mark in Watt's column.  If Cannon keeps him at bay, then Cannon's stock should rise.

    Martez Wilson if he declares is worthy of mid 1st consideration.  Guys with his size and speed are rare.  I think he could play OLB in our system but certainly he could beat out Spikes.   But with all this talk of drafting defense, BB may think who he has will improve with time and focus on the older offensive side of the ball. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]1a. JJ Watts, DE/DT (Wisconsin) 6-6, 292 “Watt is one of those players that is simply playing his way into national attention. He is a blue-collar player who simply outworks and outhustles his opponent by wearing them down over the course of a game. Watt has the size and strength to play in either a 4-3 or 3-4 defensive line. He has a frame that could still add on weight. He is on both the Lombardi Trophy and Bronco Nagurski Trophy watch lists. Watt began his career as tight end at Central Michigan before transferring to Wisconsin and redshirting for a year in 2008. He moved to defensive end in 2009 and started every game. Plays great against the run, using his shoulders and arms to fight for position. Great vision and makes quick adjustments to the ball-carrier. Not a pure pass rusher, relies heavily on his strength and athleticism to beat slower offensive linemen. Watt progressed very rapidly and has some versatility along the Badgers' defensive line. Can play almost any position along the line. He uses a quick first step to dig into blockers, preferring to bull rush into them.” http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=2727 1b. Gabe Carimi, OL, (Wisconsin) 6’7 ″ wt : 325 Carimi is a mauler that will open up holes in the running game and is a solid presence against the pass rush. He can play either left or right tackle. 2a. (trade down to later in the round and pick up an additional 4 th round pick) Justin Houston OLB/DE (Georgia) Houston has good size at 6'3'' and 258 pounds. He looks like a defensive end, and that's exactly what he might play at the next level in a 4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 defense he can set up at rush linebacker. Has experience playing OLB in the 3-4 defense. Houston has been clocked as fast as 4.64 in the 40-yard dash. Through nine games as a junior, Houston has a whopping 15.5 tackles for loss   and nine sacks. He also has ridiculous 35 quarterback hurries, a forced fumble, and a fumble recovery. 2b. Daniel Thomas RB (Kansas State) or Mikel Leshoure, RB, (Illinois),   Thomas rushed for 1,265 yards and 11 touchdowns. He was even third on the team with 25 receptions for 257 yards.   Thomas has proven that he can carry the load and at 228 pounds, he has the size to be a bruising back in the NFL.   He may not be quite as explosive as some others, but he is an every down back. 3a. (trade into a 2012 2 nd round pick) or Ben Ijalana OG/OT Villanova 6’4” 320 You want running lanes? Ben will give you running lanes. If Logan Mankins and Stephen Neal aren’t back in town next year, Ijalana would be a decent replacement. 3b. Chimdi Chekwa , CB (Ohio State), 6-0, 190, 4.42 4. Owen Marecic, FB/LB (Stanford) 6-1, 245 He is really a fullback, but he is also one heck of a special teams player who can make plays no matter what the situation may be. He has done a superb job blocking for the young Stanford backfield.   For an NFL team that actually uses a fullback, Marecic will be a steal in the fourth or fifth round. 4b. (b/c of trade down of 2a) Cecil Shorts III, WR, (Mount Union) 6’0” 40: 4.43 had 252 receptions, 4,615 yards, 72 touchdowns on a four-year career.   Shorts has played some running back, Wildcat quarterback, kick returner and regular quarterback as well. 5. Zach Hurd, OG, (UConn) 6’7” 325 or John Bender, OG, (Nevada) 6’8” 325 -Hurd is a massive blocker who stands out on film.  Powerful at the point, Hurd easily turns defenders off the line run blocking or anchors in pass protection.   He quickly gets his hands into opponents and keeps his feet moving yet Hurd is better in a small area as he’s exploited by quick, nimble defenders. -Huge size and wingspan coupled with good footwork and overall mechanics. Bender, while huge is still mobile enough to get down-field and make second level blocks.   Converted from tackle, lacks speed typically found in a guard. Can be beaten by speed rush. 6. Alex Henery, K, (Nebraska) 6’2” 175 We don’t know how Gostowski is going to recover and he has to be resigned.   He has a strong leg with a career long field of 57 yards. He connected on 56 of his 57 PATs. He also made 18 of 21 field goals, with two of those misses from 50 yards or more. But Henery is also a solid punter 6. (Compensatory for watson) Allen Bradford, RB, USC 5’11” 235 Bradford is a load. He has a powerful body, topping 230lbs and he runs very hard between the tackles. What separates him from other big backs is his breakaway speed. Give him the slightest opening, and he will hit the hole and out run the defense to the end zone.   Injury issues and has some problems holding on to the ball.
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    This would be a very excellent draft.  I would love this.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

      I think you can forget looking for a PK'er as I believe they have already extended the Ghost and I haven't heard or read anything that would make one believe that his future is in doubt.If I'm wrong about the re-signing by all means look for a PK'er somewhere along the way but I do think he has re-upped.Should they re-sign Mankins,which I believe is clearly the way to go at guard,assuming the bruised egos and hurt feelings on both sides can be put aside,and these are big boys who should be able to get beyond the contentious negotiations and the and subsequent hold-out.Having said that,I'd still look for them to add a guard,hopefully Henry or Moffitt,somewhere between the second and early third round.Carimi and Solder still seem to me to be the best fit at OT for the Pats.As for Watts,it would make my month if they get him.It wouldn't surprise me if they look to free agency for a WR,RB,CB and G,and could well sign a veteran player at one or two of these positions if they find the type of player they want on the club.Perhaps no big splashes,but solid,versitile,effective and efficient players.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    is saw two qtrs of the ohio-troy game today. i thought there were some receivers here who could be interesting for the 6th, 7th or even fa. moncrief has good size, speed and hands.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***WITH NEW MOCK*** : JJ Watt is a top 10 talent IMO.  I don't think he's gotten the notice on most draft sight because he's a junior but he's a 4 year junior and I'm pretty sure he's coming out.  I think JJ Watt will move up boards after WIS destroys TCU.  It will be interesting to see what he does against Marcus Cannon.  A lot of guys on here don't think much of Cannon.  He is massive but he's also pretty athletic.  If Watt dominates him, that would be the final check mark in Watt's column.  If Cannon keeps him at bay, then Cannon's stock should rise. Martez Wilson if he declares is worthy of mid 1st consideration.  Guys with his size and speed are rare.  I think he could play OLB in our system but certainly he could beat out Spikes.   But with all this talk of drafting defense, BB may think who he has will improve with time and focus on the older offensive side of the ball. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I like JJ Watt as much as anyone on this board, but I don't see him anywhere, on almost any draft board sniffing the top 20-25. I don't know if this is because as you said he is a junior, but there's not a ton of analysis on him that I can find anywhere. In the 2 game I saw him play, he seems worthy of at least a top 20 selection, especially given all the teams playing 3-4 nowadays, and you don't run across a kid of his size, strength and speed very often.

    I would love us taking him with Oaklands pick. I woudl rather take Watts at whatever Oaklands pick is rather than Harris with that same pick. We have been yearning for a stud 3-4 DE for a long time now, same with OLB. I think between the rest of the draft and FA, we can round out the secondary.

    Agree on Martez. He has ideal size, speed for a 3-4 OLB based on BB's standards. He seems a bit thin in the legs/butt (like Crable), and I question his ability to play the run...I do think he can do pretty much everything else you would want a 3-4 oLB to do however. I wouldn't want him inside. I really like Spikes in that role as the agressor. I don't think Martez plays wiht the same physical style or could hold up as well inside as Spikes. I would rather play him outside because of his speed, drops into coverage well, and can rush the passere too. I'm fine with Mayo, Guyton, Spikes inside as a rotation.
     

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