2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Not the worst mock I've seen, Jabaal Sheard is going to be a beast.  He might not be getting a ton of attention but he will after the combine.  6'4" 260 lbs some say he could post a 4.60 40 if he lasts until 56 that would be a gift IMO.  The other pics are good as well and with even with little 6'1" Dontay Moch which I've been trying to convince someone he has value to the Pats.

    http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php

    so if this was the 1st 4 rounds how many would feel warm and fuzzy
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]Not the worst mock I've seen, Jabaal Sheard is going to be a beast.  He might not be getting a ton of attention but he will after the combine.  6'4" 260 lbs some say he could post a 4.60 40 if he lasts until 56 that would be a gift IMO.  The other pics are good as well and with even with little 6'1" Dontay Moch which I've been trying to convince someone he has value to the Pats. http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php so if this was the 1st 4 rounds how many would feel warm and fuzzy
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    I've wanted to get on the Dontay Moch bandwagon but just can't. The kid looks lost on the field. I think he's a workout warrior just like our friend Gholston. The only difference is that Moch won't go in the 1st round like Gholston did.

    That said, given his size and speed, I'd bring him in as a UDFA, or 7th round pick and see if he can play safety....lol
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I'm always down for a good Pouncey debate, haha. I'd have to counter with, I haven't compared him head to head vs. Maurkice or assumed he's as good.  I mean Maurkice was a 2nd Team All-Pro as a rookie as well as a 1st round pick in a deeper draft (I actually had NE taking him in my final mock, which of course is irrelevant).  He won the Rimington, but also played the C position for 3 years at Florida (this was Mike's first year).  I also don't see any Rimington's in Wisniewski's trophy case and he too replaced a Rimington winner (AQ Shipley). Instead, I'd be drafting Mike with the idea that he'd start, upgrade the OL, provide some versatility (I think he can play C at the NFL level) and help solidify the unit for the next 5-10 years.  I think he's one of the best OL prospects in this class and provides a lot of the qualities that BB likes in his OL, specifically, good feet, balance, agility, toughness and nastiness, proven against top competition, good leadership qualities and has that winning/championship pedigree. On the subject of OG, Hudson looked pretty good today (granted it was helmets only).  Strong at the POA, good feet, moved well and he too looks like a solid potential option to track moving forward.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Okay, good rebuttal, you win round 2.  But I don't want him in the first if we end up keeping Mankins.  I'd rather take Moffitt or Watkins late 2nd.  Let's go get our pass rusher at 28 and our stud OT at 17.

    I want to talk about Phil Taylor some more.  Not talking about his past, just what we saw out of him this week.  Was I the only one thinking this kid at 6-4, 337 could play 34 DE for us?  He was a handful for those South OL types.  I'm really going to be watching with interest him going up against the stud North OL.  He looks so explosive.  If he overpowers Moffit, Carimi, Castonzo or Solder the way he did against the Sherrod and the rest of the south line, he will be high on my list.

    I think he can spell VW in the middle or play at either end spot in the base 34.  On passing downs, we kick him inside and bring our new rush OLB to the line whomever it ends up being.  I'm really starting to like Mb's boy from Arizona, Reed.  He made Carpenter his beoch today with little effort.  Actually Acho owned Carpenter too.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]Not the worst mock I've seen, Jabaal Sheard is going to be a beast.  He might not be getting a ton of attention but he will after the combine.  6'4" 260 lbs some say he could post a 4.60 40 if he lasts until 56 that would be a gift IMO.  The other pics are good as well and with even with little 6'1" Dontay Moch which I've been trying to convince someone he has value to the Pats. http://walterfootball.com/draft2011.php so if this was the 1st 4 rounds how many would feel warm and fuzzy
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]


    i did see moch this year and he stood out in that game (can't even remember which one). i remember seeing him play and immediately check him on the web. also remember being disappointed he was not bigger than he is. i guess one could hope he's another harrison. about the same size. can't tell if he's as much of a bulldog.

    sheard, practically did not see him this year. i noticed him last year as i was trying to catch romeus. good size. noticed him pursue and catch a rb from way behind. it was not so much the speed that impressed me, it was the attitude that went with the extra effort.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I've wanted to get on the Dontay Moch bandwagon but just can't. The kid looks lost on the field. I think he's a workout warrior just like our friend Gholston. The only difference is that Moch won't go in the 1st round like Gholston did. That said, given his size and speed, I'd bring him in as a UDFA, or 7th round pick and see if he can play safety....lol
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    The kid has once in a ten year speed for his size.  If Moch runs in the 4.3s at 229, someone will find a home for him.  I don't think it will be us but someone.

    Another kid I like but has a bit of the opposite problem in that he could be too big to stand up is Pernall McPhee.  At 6-3, 274 he would need to lose a few pound but they have been trying him out at OLB.  I was impressed with him while scouting Miss St for White and Wright and McPhee couldn't be avoided.  He is a solid football player who is always in on the play.  He has a very quick move and as Mayock would say, he's quicker than fast.  He's kind of caught between positions but he's interesting to me.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]Teams are looking to add bigger centers now with the success of 3-4 defenses. You need someone bigger perhaps to take on the nose tackle. Koppen isn't going to be replaced right now. But someone like Stefen Wisniewski or John Moffit or Kris O'Dowd could play a year starting at a guard position or just be a backup at multiple interior positions with the intention of eventually replacing Koppen in a year or so. I like that mock. I'd rather get a corner though than a WR. The fourth round seems early for Clay.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    i am glad you mentioned that thing about the trend towards 3-4. i keep forgetting to bring that up. even on 4-3 teams like bal there's much higher pressure on OLmen. i think DLs like ngata are bound to give smaller OLmen problems, particularly on the ground game. i agree that this trend drive a need for bigger kids playing the three interior OL positions.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : The kid has once in a ten year speed for his size.  If Moch runs in the 4.3s at 229, someone will find a home for him.  I don't think it will be us but someone. Another kid I like but has a bit of the opposite problem in that he could be too big to stand up is Pernall McPhee.  At 6-3, 274 he would need to lose a few pound but they have been trying him out at OLB.  I was impressed with him while scouting Miss St for White and Wright and McPhee couldn't be avoided.  He is a solid football player who is always in on the play.  He has a very quick move and as Mayock would say, he's quicker than fast.  He's kind of caught between positions but he's interesting to me.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    hey faucet, mb, sportsbozo and all the regulars. it's been a few days and i'm really behind, not in reading, just in replying. so many posts i want to reply to it's impossible. 

       first, no one has commented on my thoughts of dumping obrian. do none of you have an opinion? that championship game. predictable is an understatement. seemed like he wasn't at the same game as everyone else.
    i thought his game plan and game management and play calling was an "F".

        2nd, have any of you considered trading up for any player, particularly a stud (ie esp defensive lineman). is it just crazy to consider trading player and picks to get a game-changer like fairley or dareus. also would you rather have a big blanket approach or trade up in rd 1, 2 for the top 3 players you need? regardless what bill might do (though he is unpredictable).

        faucet i see you are advocating as i had suggested in one of my posts, taking the best o lineman high (17).

         i think i would trade to go high to try and get fairley or dareus, high in rd 1 to get the best olinman, and high as we need to to get the linebacker we like best.

     i dont care about losing a few picks or a few players ie meriweather, etc.
    we have a few good players on defense (maybe only 1 or 2 great ones) and an offensive line that will not protect brady from the best pass rushes.
    whether through free agency(expensive, less risky though usually than rookie) or the draft, we need a few top tier studs on defense d line, olb, and a beast or 2 on offensive line (yeah i have agreed with someone here, it might be a dream to get 3 of the top o lineman (i dont think that's possible).

        all that being said, i have come around to agree with faucet about my original jest about trading for luck next year (#33 this year?) with carolina. i would even go as far as trading up during next year ( ie trading again after having carolina's pick in hand) if another team was looking like they would be first(worst) (before they realize they want locker). ie trade #2 of first round if we have it for #1. brady wont last forever and luck is being called by many as the best qb to come out of college in 20 years.

       if we get the top tier d-line, o-linemen, olb, regardless where we get them,
    with whatever we have left, i do agree with trying to pick up another o-lineman, a big 3 down back who is also a gamebreaker (we need someone who can get 5 yards reliably against tough defenses esp in playoffs, but is also a threat to break it, so good d teams can't just focus on shutting down the pass. also think we need a tough big receiver who can break free of jams at the line, catch reliably, has speed and height (fa?). 
        i love cobb after watching, thanks faucet, but to me he is danny and wes, only better (he's a slot receiver/rb). to faucet, do you keep all 3? damn that guy is versatile (he probably can play every position but line (o and d).
       i would like to add a corner (someone at least decent). i dont think arrington is what we need. a decent 3rd corner and in case 1 of the starters goes down.
       also think we need to replace  meriweather. some talent, but very not smart football player.
       yeah that's a lot, but most important i think is getting top notch d-line, o-line and olb (plus #1.) signing mankins- he's been rubbing it in newengland's face or kraft anyway, have you heard, so either he is going to get his payback with words, then stay or do it and leave. i'd make him one of the top priorities as well. with him in our line, players respond. otherwise you gotta get at least 2 stud o lineman i believe; and #2.) firing obrian)

    ps, csnne roundtable also feel bill has got some yes men, as opposed to when we had crennel and weiss - no one to pick the brain or weigh in equally with bill to make the team better. what have you all thought about my question about bill's possible insecurity around this matter (ie choosing a great o and d coordinator, but who would also be weightier and not a pushover? you would not think he would let it (his insecurity) get in the way of who he wants to help coach the team, but my observation is that bill is very smart football wise but emotionally he has some issues that do sometimes affect his decisions. 

    almost forgot, troy brown from csnne thinks chad 85 is coming to the patriots.he has said publicly he wants to, and troy feels that is all that is necessary for it to happen. he sounds like a headache to me.

    ok this isn't half of what i've wanted to comment on, but all for now.

    what are all our thoughts?

    ps (can guess a little from your draft suggestions, but what is the theory of each of you why we lost to the jets (simple top reason or 2)?

    ps from reading, i respect the people in this thread more than most of the rest of the posters on the other threads, so i love that i can find you guys here and read you guys here. so thanks.

    peace,
    cb




     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    re: chad johnson:

    from frenz of bleacher report

    all good points! in my opinion:

    "In losing to the Jets, the Patriots were exposed for their lack of a big, physical outside threat. Ochocinco would certainly bring that to any offense. But remember, for eight weeks before the playoffs, the Patriots offense was all but unstoppable without that type of threat on the outside.

     

    But how, exactly, has Ochocinco fared against Darrelle Revis, Rex Ryan and the Jets defense? Six receptions for 69 yards and no touchdowns in three games. Not exactly the type of performance that would suggest he fixes any issues that the Patriots faced against the Jets.

     

    It's important to note, too, that from an age perspective, the Patriots will need to address their receiving corps sooner than later. Branch will be 32 by the beginning of the 2011 season, and Welker will be 30.

     

    Tate, Price and Edelman are all 24 or younger, so if any of them figures to be a long-term answer at receiver, now is the time to get them their reps.

     

    Ochocinco's numbers are fading, even if they're not abysmal. Still, with young talent waiting in the wings, trading for him and having his personality in the locker room seem like more trouble and risk than it's worth"

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    On the dumping of O'Brien I think you need to sit back and look at things a bit.  The staff meets on the game plan and agrees with it.  The play calling does have a lot to do with the talent on the team.  The Pats play to the strength of the player.  Without any "names" on offense outside of Brady things get kinda vanilla looking.  However the Pats did move the ball against the Jets and then would turn it over or get a penalty killing the drive.  I don't think there was anything wrong with the game plan.  I thought the player execution was terrible.  It had nothing to do with the play call.

    The defense needs to carry some of the blame but get a pass because of the injuries up front and the youth.  So this alone should tell you that it would be a struggle in the playoffs.  You can't win without some defense.  It was bend don't break all the way with a couple major snafu's.

    My opinion on the moving up in the draft during the 1st round is this.  It's costly and a gamble for one player who may or may not pan out.  It just doesn't balance out with Bill.  In the later rounds the cost is much less and moving around is a little easier.  So I can see why BB saves his moving up for the later rounds.  The kid from Oklahoma last year, forget his name, that went to Tampa.  Big name but isn't playing to the hype.  A lot of folks thought he would be a better pro than Suh.  Moving up in the 1st round is a gamble you can not afford to lose.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I've wanted to get on the Dontay Moch bandwagon but just can't. The kid looks lost on the field. I think he's a workout warrior just like our friend Gholston. The only difference is that Moch won't go in the 1st round like Gholston did. That said, given his size and speed, I'd bring him in as a UDFA, or 7th round pick and see if he can play safety....lol
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I don't think he'll get out of the 4th round, if he has good workouts he might be higher. 

    I think the speed and pass rushing abilities is something that can be used in sub packages, STs and he could be a hybrid type safety/LB.  Who's better at putting guys in situations to be productive than BB?

    and Faucet is right, this speed only comes around once in a blue moon.  I would love to see him drafted and developed.  I want to OLBs drafted, one in the 1st or 2nd another in later rounds. 

    I think the cealing on this kid is way high not to take a shot in the right round.  Say with the 1st 6 picks they get all the needs, a few high risk high reward guys could be taken?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    cbdam,
    it sounds intriguing to move up in the first round and grab someone there, but is the risk worth the results?
    Lets just say we then draft a 3 down DE end, and had to give up a oaklands first and a second rounder.
    We gave up two picks for one player, if he turns out to be a pro bowl caliber I'd say nothing, but there is a possibility he'll end up failing to deliver.
    Therefore I'd rather take two lesser rated DE and give them a chance, then one high praised, we have to give up alot for.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I posted this in another place but wanted to share with you guys too.

    The below story in red is from Alfie Crow.  There might not even be a free agency period this year depending on the CBA.

    The current NFL and NFLPA collective bargaining agreement (CBA) is set to expire on March 3, 2011. That date is also when NFL Free Agency should start, however unless a new CBA is agreed upon by March 3, 2011 free agency cannot happen. It's looking likely that there will be an NFL lockout, but I do not believe it will be one that will last long enough to dramatically effect the 2011 NFL season. What is very likely with the looming lockout however, is that the NFL Draft will occur before the free agency period. I tried to find out when the last time this happened. I employed Google, Twitter, and asked the rest of my SBNation.com bloggers, but I couldn't find an answer. The NFL Draft started in 1936 and from what I was able to gather, free agency has never been held after the NFL Draft occurred.

    I heard another report that stated if the new CBA doesn't happen before the first day of training camp which was July 22 last year that there would be no free agency and every player would be stuck with the same team at the same pay they had in 2010.

    The 2010 season officially ends on March 2, the lock out begins on March 3.  There are several calendar events that can't happen with a lock out such as deadline to tender restricted free agents, use the franchise tag, negotiate with your own free agents, etc.  If these events don't happen and the CBA is reached too late such as near training camp, there might not be a Free Agency period, that's what I heard.  If there isn't free agency, then one would assume Mankins would be stuck in New England for another year and the franchise tag could be applied to him in 2012 at the average of the top 5 OL, not at 120% of what his pay would have been if tagged this year which would have been close to $11 MM.


    Even if the doomsday events above don't happen because a new CBA is in place, Mankins will get tagged and either traded or tagged and kept another year.  The Pats aren't going to just let him walk for a comp pick until they've used all available tools to keep him or get fair value for him.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : hey faucet, mb, sportsbozo and all the regulars. it's been a few days and i'm really behind, not in reading, just in replying. so many posts i want to reply to it's impossible.     first, no one has commented on my thoughts of dumping obrian. do none of you have an opinion? that championship game. predictable is an understatement. seemed like he wasn't at the same game as everyone else. i thought his game plan and game management and play calling was an "F".     2nd, have any of you considered trading up for any player, particularly a stud (ie esp defensive lineman). is it just crazy to consider trading player and picks to get a game-changer like fairley or dareus. also would you rather have a big blanket approach or trade up in rd 1, 2 for the top 3 players you need? regardless what bill might do (though he is unpredictable).     faucet i see you are advocating as i had suggested in one of my posts, taking the best o lineman high (17).      i think i would trade to go high to try and get fairley or dareus, high in rd 1 to get the best olinman, and high as we need to to get the linebacker we like best.  i dont care about losing a few picks or a few players ie meriweather, etc. we have a few good players on defense (maybe only 1 or 2 great ones) and an offensive line that will not protect brady from the best pass rushes. whether through free agency(expensive, less risky though usually than rookie) or the draft, we need a few top tier studs on defense d line, olb, and a beast or 2 on offensive line (yeah i have agreed with someone here, it might be a dream to get 3 of the top o lineman (i dont think that's possible).     all that being said, i have come around to agree with faucet about my original jest about trading for luck next year (#33 this year?) with carolina. i would even go as far as trading up during next year ( ie trading again after having carolina's pick in hand) if another team was looking like they would be first(worst) (before they realize they want locker). ie trade #2 of first round if we have it for #1. brady wont last forever and luck is being called by many as the best qb to come out of college in 20 years.    if we get the top tier d-line, o-linemen, olb, regardless where we get them, with whatever we have left, i do agree with trying to pick up another o-lineman, a big 3 down back who is also a gamebreaker (we need someone who can get 5 yards reliably against tough defenses esp in playoffs, but is also a threat to break it, so good d teams can't just focus on shutting down the pass. also think we need a tough big receiver who can break free of jams at the line, catch reliably, has speed and height (fa?).      i love cobb after watching, thanks faucet, but to me he is danny and wes, only better (he's a slot receiver/rb). to faucet, do you keep all 3? damn that guy is versatile (he probably can play every position but line (o and d).    i would like to add a corner (someone at least decent). i dont think arrington is what we need. a decent 3rd corner and in case 1 of the starters goes down.    also think we need to replace  meriweather. some talent, but very not smart football player.    yeah that's a lot, but most important i think is getting top notch d-line, o-line and olb (plus #1.) signing mankins- he's been rubbing it in newengland's face or kraft anyway, have you heard, so either he is going to get his payback with words, then stay or do it and leave. i'd make him one of the top priorities as well. with him in our line, players respond. otherwise you gotta get at least 2 stud o lineman i believe; and #2.) firing obrian) ps, csnne roundtable also feel bill has got some yes men, as opposed to when we had crennel and weiss - no one to pick the brain or weigh in equally with bill to make the team better. what have you all thought about my question about bill's possible insecurity around this matter (ie choosing a great o and d coordinator, but who would also be weightier and not a pushover? you would not think he would let it (his insecurity) get in the way of who he wants to help coach the team, but my observation is that bill is very smart football wise but emotionally he has some issues that do sometimes affect his decisions.  almost forgot, troy brown from csnne thinks chad 85 is coming to the patriots.he has said publicly he wants to, and troy feels that is all that is necessary for it to happen. he sounds like a headache to me. ok this isn't half of what i've wanted to comment on, but all for now. what are all our thoughts? ps (can guess a little from your draft suggestions, but what is the theory of each of you why we lost to the jets (simple top reason or 2)? ps from reading, i respect the people in this thread more than most of the rest of the posters on the other threads, so i love that i can find you guys here and read you guys here. so thanks. peace, cb
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]

    cb,
    As for our my opinion on your previous Bill O'Brien question, like you, I don't have time to respond to all questions/comments either. 

    With that being said, I think fans generally put too much stock into one game, specifically the last game of the season.  The convo quickly turns to, NE needing any number of elite pro-bowl WR's or RB's in order to compensate.  Here's a news flash to everyone, they had the #1 offense in football this year, they were due a bad game and unfortunately it came at the worst time.    The offense wasn't firing on all cylinders but Bill O'Brien didn't throw the pick to David Harris or drop a TD catch on the first two drives respectively and overall their execution was poor.  I think it's fair to question that "drive to nowhere" and their late game clock management, because it didn't really make sense to someone watching the game, but we also don't know what the teams reasoning/thought process was.  In the end, it's BB decision and I don't see him cutting O'Brien loose.  Like any other season, they'll evaluate all three phases of the game (O/D/ST) and their applicable full bodies of work (the whole season vs. one game) and decide on how they can best improve the team for 2011.

    As for trading up in Rd 1, a lot (most) of fans would love to see this, heck I brought this up last year in regards to targeting an elite defensive player/playmaker (Suh/Eric Berry/Rolando McClain specifically), but BB stuck to his draft philosophy, worked the draft board, made some trades to move down and came out of the the draft with aruably the best defensive playmaking rookie in the draft (McCourty), with a couple of extra picks to boot.  So to answer your question, no I don't see him trading up this year to target anyone.

    As for trading for Luck, I think it's unrealistic to think that Carolina, knowing they probably won't be a good football team next year would trade their top pick in Rd 1 next year (knowing they too would have a shot at Luck) for pick 33 this year. If fans on this board understand the value of a player like Luck, I would think that Carolina's front office would as well, seeing as he was just ripped from their grasp.   
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Okay, good rebuttal, you win round 2.  But I don't want him in the first if we end up keeping Mankins.  I'd rather take Moffitt or Watkins late 2nd.  Let's go get our pass rusher at 28 and our stud OT at 17. I want to talk about Phil Taylor some more.  Not talking about his past, just what we saw out of him this week.  Was I the only one thinking this kid at 6-4, 337 could play 34 DE for us?  He was a handful for those South OL types.  I'm really going to be watching with interest him going up against the stud North OL.  He looks so explosive.  If he overpowers Moffit, Carimi, Castonzo or Solder the way he did against the Sherrod and the rest of the south line, he will be high on my list. I think he can spell VW in the middle or play at either end spot in the base 34.  On passing downs, we kick him inside and bring our new rush OLB to the line whomever it ends up being.  I'm really starting to like Mb's boy from Arizona, Reed.  He made Carpenter his beoch today with little effort.  Actually Acho owned Carpenter too.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately Taylor's past needs to be discussed as well.  Talent alone I think he's in the discussion due to his size, quickness and versatility.  As you pointed out, he could provide value at both DE and NT, however he was suspended from the team (due to a fight) and then had to transfer, so his character will be called into question and will need to be investigated.  Intriguing prospect though.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I don't think we would give up the farm to move up to get Dareus.  First Dareus is better suited as as 43 DT.  This isn't to say he can't play 34 DE, because I think he can as I think Fairley can play both positions.  I think Jarvis Jenkins, Phil Taylor and Muhammad Wilkerson can also play 34 DE.

    There are other guys like Stephen Paea who I think are just 43 DTs.  I would put Drake Nevis, Marvin Austin, Jurrell Casey and Corey Liuget in that 43 mold.

    Then there are DEs in college that I think can translate to 34 DEs where some will remain 43 DEs.  The 34 DEs, IMO are; Cameron Jordan, JJ Watt, Phil Taylor, Cameron Heyward, and Christian Ballard.  I think guys that will remain 43 DEs are; Da'Quan Bowers, Robert Quinn, Adrian Clayborn, Ryan Kerrigan, Jabaal Sheard and Allen Bailey.

    So, if we assess our current DL, which of the above players would upgrade current players and project to be starters?  For me, if we are spending a 1st or 2nd round pick we should expect that player to start by his second season.  I went back and highlighted the players I feel fit our system and should project to be starters by year 2.  They are Fairley, Dareus, Jordan, Watt, Taylor and Heyward.  Jenkins, Wilkerson, and Ballard I think will need more time to develop. 

    Fairley and Dareus will be gone in the top 10.  I think if either Watt or Jordan are there at 17, we shouldn't risk trading down hoping to get them later.  Heyward, like Clayborn are difficult for me to evaluate, but I think they could be had at 28.  Right now, the sleeper pick is Taylor.  He had a most impressive Senior Bowl week.  He comes with some real questions about his character and ability and desire to stay in shape.  But, he could be had at 33 or lower perhaps to mid 40s.  I think he upgrades any of the DEs we have as do Watt and Jordan.  Taylor is a space eater like Wilfork so he's a different type of player but I can see him playing 34 DE and occupying two OLs. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mcboyd22. Show mcboyd22's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I read somewhere yesterday that Christian Ballard was in a 2-point stance standing up and did well....anyone else see that....

    He has had some good practices, but seems to be moving up the board, just like Cameron Jordan.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : hey faucet, mb, sportsbozo and all the regulars. it's been a few days and i'm really behind, not in reading, just in replying. so many posts i want to reply to it's impossible.     first, no one has commented on my thoughts of dumping obrian. do none of you have an opinion? that championship game. predictable is an understatement. seemed like he wasn't at the same game as everyone else. i thought his game plan and game management and play calling was an "F".     2nd, have any of you considered trading up for any player, particularly a stud (ie esp defensive lineman). is it just crazy to consider trading player and picks to get a game-changer like fairley or dareus. also would you rather have a big blanket approach or trade up in rd 1, 2 for the top 3 players you need? regardless what bill might do (though he is unpredictable).     faucet i see you are advocating as i had suggested in one of my posts, taking the best o lineman high (17).      i think i would trade to go high to try and get fairley or dareus, high in rd 1 to get the best olinman, and high as we need to to get the linebacker we like best.  i dont care about losing a few picks or a few players ie meriweather, etc. we have a few good players on defense (maybe only 1 or 2 great ones) and an offensive line that will not protect brady from the best pass rushes. whether through free agency(expensive, less risky though usually than rookie) or the draft, we need a few top tier studs on defense d line, olb, and a beast or 2 on offensive line (yeah i have agreed with someone here, it might be a dream to get 3 of the top o lineman (i dont think that's possible).     all that being said, i have come around to agree with faucet about my original jest about trading for luck next year (#33 this year?) with carolina. i would even go as far as trading up during next year ( ie trading again after having carolina's pick in hand) if another team was looking like they would be first(worst) (before they realize they want locker). ie trade #2 of first round if we have it for #1. brady wont last forever and luck is being called by many as the best qb to come out of college in 20 years.    if we get the top tier d-line, o-linemen, olb, regardless where we get them, with whatever we have left, i do agree with trying to pick up another o-lineman, a big 3 down back who is also a gamebreaker (we need someone who can get 5 yards reliably against tough defenses esp in playoffs, but is also a threat to break it, so good d teams can't just focus on shutting down the pass. also think we need a tough big receiver who can break free of jams at the line, catch reliably, has speed and height (fa?).      i love cobb after watching, thanks faucet, but to me he is danny and wes, only better (he's a slot receiver/rb). to faucet, do you keep all 3? damn that guy is versatile (he probably can play every position but line (o and d).    i would like to add a corner (someone at least decent). i dont think arrington is what we need. a decent 3rd corner and in case 1 of the starters goes down.    also think we need to replace  meriweather. some talent, but very not smart football player.    yeah that's a lot, but most important i think is getting top notch d-line, o-line and olb (plus #1.) signing mankins- he's been rubbing it in newengland's face or kraft anyway, have you heard, so either he is going to get his payback with words, then stay or do it and leave. i'd make him one of the top priorities as well. with him in our line, players respond. otherwise you gotta get at least 2 stud o lineman i believe; and #2.) firing obrian) ps, csnne roundtable also feel bill has got some yes men, as opposed to when we had crennel and weiss - no one to pick the brain or weigh in equally with bill to make the team better. what have you all thought about my question about bill's possible insecurity around this matter (ie choosing a great o and d coordinator, but who would also be weightier and not a pushover? you would not think he would let it (his insecurity) get in the way of who he wants to help coach the team, but my observation is that bill is very smart football wise but emotionally he has some issues that do sometimes affect his decisions.  almost forgot, troy brown from csnne thinks chad 85 is coming to the patriots.he has said publicly he wants to, and troy feels that is all that is necessary for it to happen. he sounds like a headache to me. ok this isn't half of what i've wanted to comment on, but all for now. what are all our thoughts? ps (can guess a little from your draft suggestions, but what is the theory of each of you why we lost to the jets (simple top reason or 2)? ps from reading, i respect the people in this thread more than most of the rest of the posters on the other threads, so i love that i can find you guys here and read you guys here. so thanks. peace, cb
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE] cb I thought I mentioned the fact that O'Brien isn't an Offensive coordinator but only a QB coach so no sense in holding him responsible though if a really exceptional OC became available I think BB would have to consider him as a viable replacement as play caller which is another thing O'Brien was responsible for, as to your question about trading up in the draft,it's possible but it's not in BB's general DNA as far as drafting goes he likes to acquire picks so he can get volume and promote the players that survive the weeding out process. Though going after a Fairley or a Dareus would good moves the cost would probably be exhorbitant and BB isn't over spending for one guy.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    It strikes me after reading here a couple of days and checking out some mocks suggested that this is somewhat like last year...I think we can have a great draft getting some really needed players.  Sometimes BB takes some hits because of how he jumps up and down the board on draft days, but we are probably in this position because of how he handled last year.  Also, I hear that BB will not trade up because of risks, etc. but I believe he has done that before when he identifies the player he thinks will really excell in his system.  So it wouldn't shock me if he did, though I too don't expect it.  Finally, I don't see O'Brien, if that's his name, going.  It seems like BB hires someone, gives them more and more responsibility, lets them grow on the job and in the system until they reach the top--where they are hired away.  If they don't seem to fit the system, they just work a couple of years then drift off without much fanfare--no firing involved.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    PS, didn't he trade up for Wilfork?  I know he has done it.  Also, as far as coaches, I think BB would rather have young guys he can completely train his way, trusted guys he's worked with before, rather than guys coming from a different system.  Same with players he wants.  He has relationships with Fla., Alabama, Iowa, and Fresno coaches--thus he knows what to expect from those players.  Let me ask, has he had a relationship with the Wisconsin staff/HC?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    hey guys,
    thanks for your thoughts.
    i'm aware of BB's strategy and past.
    this year i wondered what you would do given i believe we need game changers, not average players, either through free agency or picking 3 picks relatively high. i'm basically saying target your top guys and go after them instead of trading for more picks or seeing what comes to you. yes, every choice has a risk reward, i'm aware. so does trading down. i'm aware trading down is a viable strategy, but unless we get some free agents, i'm thinking i'd be willing to give up a pick here or there to get the player who will make a difference at our need positions (o line, d line, olb).

    i know BB's strategy. would you cast a diffuse wide net this year if it were you?

    sports,
         do you think bill would take an established o coordinator (and what of my question of his possible insecurity?)

    mb you make sense about luck and carolina, 1.) would you try?, 2.) there is always making them an offer they cant refuse? i think risky, risky, but...

    akaitcho, i undestand the risks, but both choices have risks. the risk of using more lower picks is not getting a defensive end or linebacker who is a game changer vs trusting your evaluation who will be a changemaker. given our team, we dont need more avg guys. i think its worth a 2 for 1 pick, esp if we dotn fill our need through free agency.

    faucet, so you advocate taking one of (Cameron Jordan, JJ WattPhil Taylor, Cameron Heyward) with one pick, o line and olb with the other 2 of the top 3? and you would vary whether o line or d line at 17 based on who is available
    taking watt or jordan, but if they are gone taking carimi or costanzo and one of the other d lineman later?


    faucet, if you get cobb, do you keep edelman, welker and woodhead? if yo have cobb, do you also feel you need to get a tall tough jump ball type receiver as well?

    what is everyone chewing on today?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    i'm reading different reports from different writers saying that cameron jordan has been nearly unblockable at the senior bowl. ballard has been tough toothey say. costanzo gave both of them high marks. if it keeps going this way, i dont think jordan will make it to 17. what to do? see who falls to us at 17? go after our needs?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]PS, didn't he trade up for Wilfork?  I know he has done it.  Also, as far as coaches, I think BB would rather have young guys he can completely train his way, trusted guys he's worked with before, rather than guys coming from a different system.  Same with players he wants.  He has relationships with Fla., Alabama, Iowa, and Fresno coaches--thus he knows what to expect from those players.  Let me ask, has he had a relationship with the Wisconsin staff/HC?
    Posted by Critter23[/QUOTE]

    Wilfork fell to the Pats.  I couldn't believe.  Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News, got it right and I thought he was crazy at the time.  I never understood why he fell so.  Top 15 pick easy at the time I thought.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    This is a shocker to me but Adam Schefter tweets that Von Miller is a top 5 pick.  I'm not that big on the guy.

    Thoughts?......now don't be shy!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    hi garytx,
        we need an olb who can get to the passer. even if we have a stud run stopper, it will not help us in the area we are most weak, pass rush. without this our defense will be weak, even with good corners and a run stopping d line.
    so i say we should go after the best rusher we can get other things being equal( ie best if we can get one that has the other traits we want- but without sacrificing pass rush ability).
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]i'm reading different reports from different writers saying that cameron jordan has been nearly unblockable at the senior bowl. ballard has been tough toothey say. costanzo gave both of them high marks. if it keeps going this way, i dont think jordan will make it to 17. what to do? see who falls to us at 17? go after our needs?
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]
    If Jordan goes before 17, then either JJ Watt or Julio Jones might be there at 17.  Rumor is Dallas will take one of the top OTs.  I thought they might be interested in Robert Quinn, so Quinn could be there too.  At least 2 of the top 3 OTs should be there as well.  A case could be made for any of these players. 
     

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