***2012 Patriots Draft Thread***! THANKS TO ALL WHO PARTICIPATED!

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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Jeffrey will be an intetesting guy to watch. I think teams will back off big time. There's just too many questions surrounding him right now. Sure we've seen wrs come out recently and have a huge impact , but there few and far between. WR , projected OLB's and cb's are extremely hard to judge. The systems their in , competition they face and speed of game are huge in determining a grade on player. This kid reminds me an awful lot like Mike Williams.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Interesting report on Jeffery South Carolina WR Alshon Jeffery measured 6-foot-3 1/8 and 216 pounds at Friday's Scouting Combine weigh-in. He's an inch shorter and 13 pounds smaller than his college listing. While it's nice that Jeffery arrived in Indy lighter than the 230- and 240-pound rumors, he's clearly been on a lose-weight-fast program leading up to the Combine. It will be interesting to see whether he's lost strength, which would show up on the bench press. Jeffery will run his forty-yard dash on Sunday. It's clear he was on a lose weight fast program? It appears that he might have been overweight to begin with. It he didn't baloon and questions about his weight were false there would be no reason to go on a drastic weight cutting program, which is visible to analysts. I wonder how this will affect the rest of his combine. Drastic weight lose tends to make the body sluggish and could show up in both the 40, bench, and leaping. If true this was a bad move by him as if could negatively affect his numbers more then being overweight to begin with
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    Mayock suggested the other day that Jeffery should try to lose weight before the Combine because he needs to run faster.  Mayock said he needs to be in the 4.55 or less range to go top half of 2nd or higher.  If he's in the 4.60 range, his stock will really take a hit.

    We can't really judge too much about those college measurables.  I played college basketball and was just asked my height and weight for the program.  So, cheating on those numbers are frequent, that's why they take the time to get real numbers at the Combine.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Mayock suggested the other day that Jeffery should try to lose weight before the Combine because he needs to run faster.  Mayock said he needs to be in the 4.55 or less range to go top half of 2nd or higher.  If he's in the 4.60 range, his stock will really take a hit. We can't really judge too much about those college measurables.  I played college basketball and was just asked my height and weight for the program.  So, cheating on those numbers are frequent, that's why they take the time to get real numbers at the Combine.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    College numbers I don't put a lot of stock in but I can't remember which reporter released the article (I posted it for MB a while back) right after Senior Bowl at the beginning of pre-combine workouts Jeffery was weighting in the high 240's and running in the 4.8's. Now take that for what it's worth but for a guy to known to flux (+/-) 10 lbs while playing it's not out of the question he gained a ton and then short term weight is easy to lose with enough exercise. Dropping 30lbs in a 3-5 weeks is doable but it takes a wear on your body. If it's visibly clear that he's gone on a quick diet to me it only strengths the thought that he was in the 240 range and dropped 20-30lbs in a hurry
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : It really depends.  If Light retires, he frees up $5MM then suddenly we could be in trouble at OT.  Solder had a concussion last year and Vollmer struggled with his back all season.  Cannon probably should move inside to RG so there could be a need at OT.  If a guy like Mike Adams is still on the board at 27, he would be an intriguing option.  He would compete with Solder and allow Solder to move around and play the 3rd blocking TE and he would be $3.7MM cheaper than Light.  This savings alone allows us to bring Connolly back neutral to the cap. Right now, we should be at $99MM in cap.  I think while we need more players on D, I don't think they necessarily have to be draft picks.  I would like to see us bring in some young vets who aren't too expensive and really sure up that D from day 1.  So, I would clear as much cap by cutting dead wood as I could then go shopping.  I would possibly cut or retire these guys. $5MM Matt Light $1.5MM Chad Ochocinco $1MM Josh Barrett $785K Rob Brace $750K Donald Thomas This frees up $9MM and gets us down to about $90MM with $35MM to spend.  I would spend in this way. $6.4MM Wes Welker $3MM Dan Connolly $2MM Mark Anderson $1MM Matthew Slater $750K Kyle Love This uses $13MM.  We need to save $5MM for the draft.  This leaves us $17MM to go shopping. $4MM FS Thomas DeCoud (ATL) $5MM DE Adam Carriker (WAS) $4MM OLB Anthony Spencer (DAL) $3MM WR Brandon Lloyd (STL) We've now shored up every level of the D and replaced Branch so we can head into the draft looking for BPA. 27.  OT Mike Adams (the Ohio State) 31.  DT Fletcher Cox (Mississippi State) 48.  WR Rueben Randle (LSU) 63.  RB Doug Martin (Boise State) 95.  CB Trumaine Johnson (Montana) or Josh Norman (Coastal Carolina) 4th  WR Jarius Wright (Arkansas) These moves would net us a depth chart like this.  This could be our core 45 players.  OFFENSE 22 Players Slot 31 W Welker '14 26 Edelman '12   WR 31 B. Lloyd '15 27 M Slater '14   LOT 23 N Solder '15 22 M. Adams '16   LG 31 Mankins '16     C 30 Connolly '15 26 Wendell '13   ROG 35 B Waters '12 24 M. Cannon '14   RT 27 Vollmer '12     TE 23 Gronkowski '13 22 Hernandez '13   QB 35 Tom Brady '14 24 Mallett '14   RB 23 S. Veeren '14 26 Woodhead '12   23 S. Ridley '14 22 D Martin '15         WR 22 R. Randle '15 22 J Wright '15           DEFENSE 22 Players DE   28 Carriker '15 26 M Pryor '13   NT 30 Wilfork '14 26 Love '11   DE 25 Deaderick '13 22 F. Cox '16   OLB 28 A. Spencer '15 24 Cunningham '13   ILB 26 Mayo '16 25 Fletcher '12   ILB 25 B Spikes '13 30 White '11   OLB 28 Ninkovich '13 28 M Anderson   LCB 26 McCourty '14 23 S Moore '12   RCB 23 Dowling '14 26 Arrington '12   SS 25 Chung '12 27 J Ihedigbo   FS 27 T. DeCoud '15 22 J. Norman '15     SPECIAL TEAMS 3 PK 28 Gostkowski '14 PUP/IR PS P 25 Z. Mesko '13     LS 24 D Aiken    
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Can't believe I am going to bother doing this again. I had this almost all done in details late last night and browser froze and lost it all. I am sure I don't remember most of what I wrote.

    The obvious is this is like throwing darts blind folded with no FA yet AND no final movement as to projections where players may get drafted. There will be much shuffling to come on position rankings and round projections after the combine.

    So here are some comments for discussion and thought. (Trying to remember)

    1) I am assuming you are making decisions more on money than talent AND also with health in mind? Yes? ...and also with the idea of NE going back to a 34 base?

    2) Looking back at number 1 is Mike Adams. Good player, nothing wrong with him but why? You just drafted the LT of the franchises future. I am assuming this is all about health of Solder and Vollmer and you don't believe they are durable? It's not like Mike Adams at 27 is the same can't ignore value as Mallet in the 3rd round. Adams slips to the 3rd round(Ala Mallet, or Cannon 5th round) I am with you. Solder played backup when Light and Vollmer were healthy sure (or blocking TE) but it's pretty much universally believed it's short term. You don't typically drat a OT in the 1st round to play back up for years to come behind 2 very young starters. You can get a very good and versatile OT/OG type later for depth. Someone like Mitchell Schwartz who like Cannon can play guard and even Tackle if need be. He was stoning people in pass blocking drills at the combine and and even better run blocker. He's also from Cal and we've drafted a lineman form there before.

    3) You have Cox lasting to 31. I am not sure he even lasts to 27 to be honest, if he has a good combine. Maybe though, who knows. I think if you like him and he is there at 27 you'de have to take him there and the need at the position would make more sense to me then OT.

    4) Really have a hard time believing NE will change its strips so I guess I am waving the white flag and imagining them trading pick 31 for some additional draft currency. I will play along though and take Stephen Gilmore to add some more talent to the DB crop and hedge bets against Ras-I Dowlings Durability.

    5) How did we end up with Carriker? Is he a FA or you expect him to be a cap casualty or something? Just curious but sure someone like him or K. Langford. I would also keep Ron Brace. I don't like him playing NT in a 34 but when healthy I think he can play DE just fine. I don't expect nor really want to see G. Warren or S. Ellis back and M. Pryor missed 2 seasons in a row so his durability can be questioned.

    6) I am not sure I am taking 2 WR's in the draft or not. That's not to say that NE doesn't need them either. I think they should go after the one they really want BEFORE the run on the WR tier(after the top 4 or 5) starts. Then, unless they absolutely love another WR they just grab a few UDFA WR's. Last year there were about 23 WR's at the combine. This year there will be approx. 46/47 of them. There are going to be some pretty good UDFA WR's that get overlooked or misevaluated.

    7) I am not taking a RB, unless there is someone you like AND you have an extra draft pick LATE because of a trade back. NE just spent a 2nd and 3rd round pick a year ago on the future of the backfield. I think they will at least make an attempt to keep benny. If the numbers don't work to their liking they will just look to land the next overlooked misevaluated UDFA just like they got when they landed BJGE. Either that or they will grab a cap casualty vet for depth. Someone like a Mike Tolbert of SD would fit that bill if becoming a cap casualty. Good on short yardage and finding the endzone and good on special teams.

    8) What happened to Hoyer? NE not tendering him with a 2nd or trading him for something? I didn't see any extra draft picks in your list so you just let him walk? Not even like a 6th or something?

    9) I am finding a way to draft Trumaine Johnson if written and spoken words and momentum are true. All I consistently read or hear are the words shut down corner cover ability and that if you simply move him to FS that he's easily the best FS in the entire draft?

    10) Although I really would love to see NE take someone like Vinny Curry at that 31 spot instead of the options I listed, I simply am waving the white flag again. I think I would long have died from holding my breath over the years for them to address the pass rush in that area of the draft with that type of player. It doesn't seem to be an option. You also have to wonder just what, if anything, they have in Markell Carter? Getting someone like Shea McClellin with that last pick seems more likely although his momentum would suggest he now may be gone by then. I don't believe they will ever get much from Cunningham but hope I am wrong.

    11) You saved those 2 draft picks on the 2nd WR and RB and added two more talented players to the defensive side of the ball in making some of those decisions I mentioned above. Not saying they are good decisions of course just a general idea based on trying to stick with what you did in FA. If the players you get in FA change then all of this thinking and ideas change with it obviously.


    Enjoy.


    27.  DT Fletcher Cox (Mississippi State)
    31.  CB Stephen Gilmore (S. Carolina) or FS/CB George IIoka (Boise State)
    48.  WR Rueben Randle (LSU) or Fav WR
    63.  FS/CB Trumaine Johnson (Montana)
    95.  OG/OT Mitchell Schwartz (California)
    4th  OLB/DE Shea McClellin (Boise State) or DE Derek Wolfe (Cincinnati) Etc.


    OFFENSE 22 Players
    Slot31 W Welker '1426 Edelman '12 
    WR31 B. Lloyd '1527 M Slater '14 
    LOT23 N Solder '15
     
    LG31 Mankins '16  
    C30 Connolly '1526 Wendell '13 Koppen?
    ROG35 B Waters '12 M. Schwartz 
    RT27 Vollmer '12 24 M. Cannon '14 
    TE23 Gronkowski '1322 Hernandez '13 
    QB35 Tom Brady '1424 Mallett '14 B. Hoyer?
    RB23 S. Veeren '1426 Woodhead '12 
    23 S. Ridley '14UDFA and/or FA
     BJGE?
       
    WR22 R. Randle '15UDFA and/or FA
     
        
    DEFENSE 22 Players
    DE 28 Carriker '1526 M Pryor '13 Langford?
    NT30 Wilfork '1426 Love '11 
    DE22 F. Cox '1625 Deaderick '13R. Brace
    OLB28 A. Spencer '15S. McClellin
     24 Cunningham '13
    ILB26 Mayo '1625 Fletcher '12 
    ILB25 B Spikes '1330 White '11 
    OLB28 Ninkovich '1328 M Anderson 
    LCB26 McCourty '14 S. Gilmore 
    RCB23 Dowling '1426 Arrington '12 
    SS25 Chung '1227 T. DeCoud '15 
    FS22 T. Johnson
    J. Barrett
     
     
    SPECIAL TEAMS 3
    PK28 Gostkowski '14PUP/IRPS
    P25 Z. Mesko '13  
    LS24 D Aiken  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : College numbers I don't put a lot of stock in but I can't remember which reporter released the article (I posted it for MB a while back) right after Senior Bowl at the beginning of pre-combine workouts Jeffery was weighting in the high 240's and running in the 4.8's. Now take that for what it's worth but for a guy to known to flux (+/-) 10 lbs while playing it's not out of the question he gained a ton and then short term weight is easy to lose with enough exercise. Dropping 30lbs in a 3-5 weeks is doable but it takes a wear on your body. If it's visibly clear that he's gone on a quick diet to me it only strengths the thought that he was in the 240 range and dropped 20-30lbs in a hurry
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    If my memory serves me correctly, I believe it was Russ Lande... below is what you had posted previously:

    Per Lande, Jeffery "lacks explosiveness and top-end speed," and did not show improvement in either area as a junior before declaring for the draft. One rumor surfaced Monday that Jeffery has run in the high-4.8s at a bloated 249 pounds during pre-draft workouts. Jeffery's forty time at the Combine will have a huge impact on his draft stock, but it's clear that he's no longer regarded as a candidate to be selected in the top ten.

    Don't know if the rumor was true or not, but it could've been started by a team that's hoping he falls etc... just a thought. 

    Bottom line, if the kid shows up in shape and strong and runs in the low-mid 4.5 range, teams prob won't care that he may have weighed 249.

    I've this metioned before, but there seems to be a ton of conflicting info out there on this kid and it's either love/hate.  Where there's smoke, there's generally fire and though I think he's a talented kid that will create matchup problems at the NFL level, I don't see him being an option for NE due to these questions/red-flags.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Can't believe I am going to bother doing this again. I had this almost all done in details late last night and browser froze and lost it all. I am sure I don't remember most of what I wrote. The obvious is this is like throwing darts blind folded with no FA yet AND no final movement as to projections where players may get drafted. There will be much shuffling to come on position rankings and round projections after the combine. So here are some comments for discussion and thought. (Trying to remember) 1) I am assuming you are making decisions more on money than talent AND also with health in mind? Yes? ...and also with the idea of NE going back to a 34 base? 2) Looking back at number 1 is Mike Adams. Good player, nothing wrong with him but why? You just drafted the LT of the franchises future. I am assuming this is all about health of Solder and Vollmer and you don't believe they are durable? It's not like Mike Adams at 27 is the same can't ignore value as Mallet in the 3rd round. Adams slips to the 3rd round(Ala Mallet, or Cannon 5th round) I am with you. Solder played backup when Light and Vollmer were healthy sure (or blocking TE) but it's pretty much universally believed it's short term. You don't typically drat a OT in the 1st round to play back up for years to come behind 2 very young starters. You can get a very good and versatile OT/OG type later for depth. Someone like Mitchell Schwartz who like Cannon can play guard and even Tackle if need be. He was stoning people in pass blocking drills at the combine and and even better run blocker. He's also from Cal and we've drafted a lineman form there before. 3) You have Cox lasting to 31. I am not sure he even lasts to 27 to be honest, if he has a good combine. Maybe though, who knows. I think if you like him and he is there at 27 you'de have to take him there and the need at the position would make more sense to me then OT. 4) Really have a hard time believing NE will change its strips so I guess I am waving the white flag and imagining them trading pick 31 for some additional draft currency. I will play along though and take Stephen Gilmore to add some more talent to the DB crop and hedge bets against Ras-I Dowlings Durability. 5) How did we end up with Carriker? Is he a FA or you expect him to be a cap casualty or something? Just curious but sure someone like him or K. Langford. I would also keep Ron Brace. I don't like him playing NT in a 34 but when healthy I think he can play DE just fine. I don't expect nor really want to see G. Warren or S. Ellis back and M. Pryor missed 2 seasons in a row so his durability can be questioned. 6) I am not sure I am taking 2 WR's in the draft or not. That's not to say that NE doesn't need them either. I think they should go after the one they really want BEFORE the run on the WR tier(after the top 4 or 5) starts. Then, unless they absolutely love another WR they just grab a few UDFA WR's. Last year there were about 23 WR's at the combine. This year there will be approx. 46/47 of them. There are going to be some pretty good UDFA WR's that get overlooked or misevaluated. 7) I am not taking a RB, unless there is someone you like AND you have an extra draft pick LATE because of a trade back. NE just spent a 2nd and 3rd round pick a year ago on the future of the backfield. I think they will at least make an attempt to keep benny. If the numbers don't work to their liking they will just look to land the next overlooked misevaluated UDFA just like they got when they landed BJGE. Either that or they will grab a cap casulaty vet for depth. 8) What happened to Hoyer? NE not tendering him with a 2nd or trading him for something? I didn't see any extra draft picks in your list so you just let him walk? Not even like a 6th or something? 9) I am finding a way to draft Trumaine Johnson if written and spoken words and momentum are true. All I consistently read or hear are the words shut down corner cover ability and that if you simply move him to FS that he's easily the best FS in the entire draft? 10) Although I really would love to see NE take someone like Vinny Curry at that 31 spot instead of the options I listed, I simply am waving the white flag again. I think I would long have died from holding my breath over the years for them to address the pass rush in that area of the draft with that type of player. It doesn't seem to be an option. You also have to wonder just what, if anything, they have in Markell Carter? Getting someone like Shea McClellin with that last pick seems more likely although his momentum would suggest he now may be gone by then. I don't believe they will ever get much from Cunningham but hope I am wrong. 11) You saved those 2 draft picks on the 2nd WR and RB and added two more talented players to the defensive side of the ball in making some of those decisions I mentioned above. Not saying they are good decisions of course just a general idea based on trying to stick with what you did in FA. If the players you get in FA change then all of this thinking and ideas change with it obviously. Enjoy. 27.  DT Fletcher Cox (Mississippi State) 31.  CB Stephen Gilmore (S. Carolina) or FS/CB George IIoka (Boise State) 48.  WR Rueben Randle (LSU) or Fav WR 63.  FS/CB Trumaine Johnson (Montana) 95.  OG/OT Mitchell Schwartz (California) 4th  OLB/DE Shea McClellin (Boise State) or DE Derek Wolfe (Cincinnati) Etc. OFFENSE 22 Players Slot 31 W Welker '14 26 Edelman '12   WR 31 B. Lloyd '15 27 M Slater '14   LOT 23 N Solder '15   LG 31 Mankins '16     C 30 Connolly '15 26 Wendell '13   Koppen? ROG 35 B Waters '12   M. Schwartz   RT 27 Vollmer '12 24 M. Cannon '14   TE 23 Gronkowski '13 22 Hernandez '13   QB 35 Tom Brady '14 24 Mallett '14   B. Hoyer? RB 23 S. Veeren '14 26 Woodhead '12   23 S. Ridley '14 UDFA and/or FA   BJGE?       WR 22 R. Randle '15 UDFA and/or FA           DEFENSE 22 Players DE   28 Carriker '15 26 M Pryor '13   Langford? NT 30 Wilfork '14 26 Love '11   DE 22 F. Cox '16 25 Deaderick '13 R. Brace OLB 28 A. Spencer '15 S. McClellin   24 Cunningham '13 ILB 26 Mayo '16 25 Fletcher '12   ILB 25 B Spikes '13 30 White '11   OLB 28 Ninkovich '13 28 M Anderson   LCB 26 McCourty '14  S. Gilmore   RCB 23 Dowling '14 26 Arrington '12   SS 25 Chung '12 27 T. DeCoud '15   FS 22 T. Johnson J. Barrett     SPECIAL TEAMS 3 PK 28 Gostkowski '14 PUP/IR PS P 25 Z. Mesko '13     LS 24 D Aiken    
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    I'd like that haul a lot.  I'd prefer Harrison Smith to Trumaine Johnson (character questions), but it's a very talented class nonetheless.

    27.  DT Fletcher Cox (Mississippi State)
    31.  CB Stephen Gilmore (S. Carolina) or FS/CB George IIoka (Boise State)
    48.  WR Rueben Randle (LSU) or Fav WR
    63.  FS/CB Trumaine Johnson (Montana)
    95.  OG/OT Mitchell Schwartz (California)
    4th  OLB/DE Shea McClellin (Boise State) or DE Derek Wolfe (Cincinnati) Etc.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : College numbers I don't put a lot of stock in but I can't remember which reporter released the article (I posted it for MB a while back) right after Senior Bowl at the beginning of pre-combine workouts Jeffery was weighting in the high 240's and running in the 4.8's. Now take that for what it's worth but for a guy to known to flux (+/-) 10 lbs while playing it's not out of the question he gained a ton and then short term weight is easy to lose with enough exercise. Dropping 30lbs in a 3-5 weeks is doable but it takes a wear on your body. If it's visibly clear that he's gone on a quick diet to me it only strengths the thought that he was in the 240 range and dropped 20-30lbs in a hurry
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I don't really care what he runs, I don't want him.  Too many character concerns anyhow.  Maybe Dallas will take him in the 3rd round.  I want Randle.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I don't really care what he runs, I don't want him.  Too many character concerns anyhow.  Maybe Dallas will take him in the 3rd round.  I want Randle.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Well you should be concerned. There's still talk about him going in the 1st. If he runs well he could be taken ahead of us which might push another player back to us. There are a number of teams in the early to late 20's looking for a WR. Most of his concerns involve on the field issues not off the field so anything to make another player drop is a good thing imo

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    hey guys given the perfect storm of obrian staying instead of leaving immediately for penn state, bb's conservatism, brady's brain f@rt in the endzone AND GRONK BEING HURT resulting in the loss,  i reiterate that our offense is designed to run with 2 elite te's.

     and we need to have the triple threat back and big outside receiver to get the optimal out of this offense.

    i still start the draft making sure to get fleener or an elite te.

    problem is due to bb's ability to stockpile picks and inability to make the most of them (see mike reiss who echoed my sentiment over the past years in one of his recent blogs), we still have too many holes for one draft.

    so i and we have all hashed out the needs, 

    i may start with  one of curry//mercilus/cox/devon still/chandler jones
                           and fleener with the first 2 picks
     
                           or trade up with 48 to get 3 - 1st round guys(and or top of  second)                    including fleener.


    despite the perfect storm, if we had a guy like fleener this year, dont think we lose even with gronk down (nice leverage to extend or resign our top te and hback as well).
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]hey guys given the perfect storm of obrian staying instead of leaving immediately for penn state, bb's conservatism, brady's brain f@rt in the endzone AND GRONK BEING HURT resulting in the loss,  i reiterate that our offense is designed to run with 2 elite te's.  and we need to have the triple threat back and big outside receiver to get the optimal out of this offense. i still start the draft making sure to get fleener or an elite te. problem is due to bb's ability to stockpile picks and inability to make the most of them (see mike reiss who echoed my sentiment over the past years in one of his recent blogs), we still have too many holes for one draft. so i and we have all hashed out the needs,  i may start with  one of curry//mercilus/cox/devon still/chandler jones                        and fleener with the first 2 picks                          or trade up with 48 to get 3 - 1st round guys(and or top of  second)                    including fleener. despite the perfect storm, if we had a guy like fleener this year, dont think we lose even with gronk down (nice leverage to extend or resign our top te and hback as well).
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]

    If only life were that simple....Whether we have an outside wr threat or a THIRD TE to complement TB's targets we still are vulnerable by not having a sound running game. It's a two-headed monster on the negative side...lack of a sound running game goes beyond the quality of our RBs since our weakness in the middle of our OL allows too much pressure up the middle and too little thrust into an opponents backfield. We need to create running room for our RBs with a road grader that is game ready!

    I don't subscribe to the notion (at this juncture of TB's last 3 years) to draft an OL or C later in the draft so Scar can work his magic.  Are we forgetting that we need to draft (or sign in FA) a CENTER that is already game ready if we are to capitalize on Tom's remaining years.  In other words, there is an urgency to get this team "fixed" now so that TB finally has a full deck to work with. Perhaps even if the "fix" is only for 3 years and saving  later round selections for the future but certainly not confusing present needs with future needs.

    By the way, welcome back....to the fray!
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : I don't really care what he runs, I don't want him.  Too many character concerns anyhow.  Maybe Dallas will take him in the 3rd round.  I want Randle.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    He's slipping way too much (Jeffrey) has weight issues and seems to lack the commitment and dedication it takes to make the NFL. I like Sanu, Wright, Criner, Randle, but only in the second round. I;d rather draft a player moving up most boards than a player moving down most boards,,

    Has Alshon showed up at the combine overweight ?  That always undermines a players value.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Well you should be concerned. There's still talk about him going in the 1st. If he runs well he could be taken ahead of us which might push another player back to us. There are a number of teams in the early to late 20's looking for a WR. Most of his concerns involve on the field issues not off the field so anything to make another player drop is a good thing imo
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    If he goes ahead of us, that would be a good thing, yes.

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Morning Boys,
    Below is my Board Stack V1, with a Top 5 per round as well as additional options.  This list is fluid and will likely look different come draft day and as more info/video becomes available:

    *Janoris Jenkins has some serious character concerns, but the kid is one of, if not the best cover CB in this class.  BB/NC will prob have a long convo with UM to got a full report on him.  I don't have him on the board, but from a pure talent/skill fit standpoint, he should be there.

    Rd 1Rd 2
    S- Mark  BarronDL- Kendall Reyes
    DL- Fletcher CoxS- Harrison Smith
    LB- Dont'a HightowerS- George Iloka
    C- Peter KonzWR- Rueben Randle
    CB/S- Stephon GilmoreDE/OLB- Vinny Curry
     C- Ben Jones
     CB- Brandon Boykin
     DE/OLB Chandler Jones
     OG Kevin Zeitler
      
    Rd 3Rd 4
    DE/OLB- Shea McClellinWR- Marvin Jones
    CB- Shaun PraterLB- Audie Cole
    WR- Joe AdamsDE/OLB- Jake Bequette
    DL- Alameda Ta'amuDL- Derek Wolfe
    OG/OT- Senio KelemeteWR- Ryan Broyles
    CB- Leonard JohnsonDL- Kheeston Randall
    OT- Mitchell SchwartzWR- Marvin McNutt
    DT- Josh ChapmanWR- Jarius Wright
      
    Rd's 5-URFA 
    C/OG- Quentin Saulsberry- Miss State 
    OG- Joe Looney- Wake Forest 
    DE/OLB- Brett Roy- Nevada 
    LB- Kyle Wilber- Wake Forest 
    WR- Devon Wylie- Fresno State 
    OG/OT- Markus Zusevics- Iowa 
    WR- Marquis Maze- Alabama 
    OT- Andrew Datko- FSU 
    CB- Robert Blanton- ND 
    RB- Jonas Gray- ND 
    TE- George Bryan- NC State 
    DL- Matt Conrath- Virginia 
    DL- Taylor Thompson- SMU 
    DT- Dominique Hamilton- Mizzou 
    OLB- Darius Fleming- ND 
    TE- Chase Ford- Miami 
    DL- Ryan Van Bergen- Michigan 
    RB- Davin Meggett- Maryland 
    OLB- Vince Browne- Northwestern 
    DT- Ethan Johnson- ND 
    CB- Ron Brooks- LSU
    S- Brandon Taylor- LSU
     
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]hey guys given the perfect storm of obrian staying instead of leaving immediately for penn state, bb's conservatism, brady's brain f@rt in the endzone AND GRONK BEING HURT resulting in the loss,  i reiterate that our offense is designed to run with 2 elite te's.  and we need to have the triple threat back and big outside receiver to get the optimal out of this offense. i still start the draft making sure to get fleener or an elite te. problem is due to bb's ability to stockpile picks and inability to make the most of them (see mike reiss who echoed my sentiment over the past years in one of his recent blogs), we still have too many holes for one draft. so i and we have all hashed out the needs,  i may start with  one of curry//mercilus/cox/devon still/chandler jones                        and fleener with the first 2 picks                          or trade up with 48 to get 3 - 1st round guys(and or top of  second)                    including fleener. despite the perfect storm, if we had a guy like fleener this year, dont think we lose even with gronk down (nice leverage to extend or resign our top te and hback as well).
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]
    I like to think of our receiving corps as a basketball team.  You need your big man in the middle of the paint who can get out ahead on fast breaks, that's Gronk.  A point guard rushing to get back isn't going to prevent the Gronk from getting a lay up or a slam dunk, in his case.  Then we have our power forward in Hernandez.  Welker's the point guard he touches the ball the most.  We're missing the #2 and #3, the shooting guard and small forward who can fly.  Lloyd or Branch could be that #2 but where's the #3?  In reality, a tall 6-2 plus guy to win his one-on-ones outside the numbers, and a speedy guy who demands help, is needed.  You wouldn't cover Michael Jordan one-on-one in his hay day.  This is a Michael Wallace type player. 

    Since we aren't going to give up the pick for Wallace, we need to draft a Wallace.  Razorbacks, Jarius Wright and Joe Adams potential fit the bill coming from a Pro Style Offense and I'm sure Mallett can give a good scouting report on each.  I expect both to run in the low 4.3s.  I favor Adams just because he is so dynamic on special teams in the return game, an area where we were lacking last year, and an area where rookies have to cut their teeth.  We aren't going to put him out on offense for 50 plays a game to start.  He'll return punts, kicks and come out maybe 5-10 plays on Offense where we want to either take a shot down field or to keep a safety out of the box or to open up the middle.

    There's a plethora of tall guys in this draft, options in every round.  I personally like Randle perhaps even as high as 31 over Sanu or Jeffery.  But I also think Toon, Hill, D Jones, M Jones, Quick, Criner, Posey and McNutt could all be 3-5th round options.

    The idea of a high pick on a 3rd TE doesn't seem like it would improve the team, unless of course Gronk gets hurt, so we'd be drafting a kid we hope we don't have to play much.  There are only so many balls to go around.  My notion that we need different receivers with different skills sets is to create match-up problems and require the defense to cover the entire field.  A team might have one tall safety or corner so maybe they can take away a Gronk but they can't play the same guy on Gronk and a Randle.  If they want to double Welker in the slot, then they have to play man on the edge against a speedster with safety deep to respect that.  Then you open things up in the middle for Gronk and Hern and if you clear out one side you open up a late developing RB screen or outlet pass which we used to do before the BJGE days but hardly ever do anymore (not sure if it's Benny, think it is though as our OL is pretty mobile).  A Vereen would be perfect for this if we aren't looking to add another RB in the draft.

    Bottom line is our O is geared towards Brady finding the best match up and open man.  If we give Brady time, he can go through all his progressions, then back to the first option if needed quickly.  If there is talent at every receiver position, someone should be open on every play.  If you have inferior WRs who can be easily single covered by nickel and dime backs then the whole strategy is thwarted.

    I don't think it was a conscience decision to become a TE focused team, we just happen to have 2 really good ones, with weak WRs meaning the TEs were often the best option.  If we add good WRs to the mix, I think we could use more of the field to spread the D out further and create even better situations and options for Brady.  If we were to do this, it would mean fewer balls for Welker, Gronk and Hern.  But that's okay.  I'd rather have 5 guys catching 50 balls than 3 catching 75.  A spread out field can only help in the running game too.

    Look at the disbursement of passes last year.  If I'm an opposing DC, I try to take away Gronk and Welker.  If I do that, I force them to beat me with Hernandez.  In fact if you look at games where Gronk was stopped, Hern had his best games.  In games were Gronk had 4 or fewer receptions, SD, OAK, NYJ, KC, PHI, DEN, NYG; Hern had 4 or more catches except the OAK where he DNP.

     RECTAR  YDS AVGTDLONG
    Tight Ends169237 2,237 26.22452
    Gronk90124 1,327 14.71752
    Hern79113    910 11.5746
    % of plays42%39%43% 57% 
           
    Receivers196311 2,657 11018285
    Welker122172 1,569 12.9999
    Branch5190    702 13.8863
    Ocho1532    276 18.4153
    Edelman48      34 8.5011
    Underwood36      30 10013
    Slater13      46 46046
    % of plays49%51%51% 43% 
           
    Backs375836335.6095
    BJGE913    159 17.7053
    Woodhead1831    157 8.7016
    Faulk79      34 4.9018
    Ridley35      13 4.308
    % of plays9%10%7% 0% 

    I look at these numbers and a couple of things stick out.  Welker is the only threat at WR and now that he's over 30, I don't think we want him catching 122 balls, 30% of all catches.  If he gets hurt or a team can take him away, that's a big deal.  Gronk and Welker combined to have 50% of all passes thrown there way, recording 53% of all catches for 55% of all yards and 62% of all receiving TDs.  That's too much IMO but they were the best options.  Teams we face will get players and schemes to stop those two guys and if they do, they know they might be able to beat us.

    The other thing that really stood out is our running backs contributed almost nothing in the passing game.  What a change from years past.  Less than 10% contributed by RBs in the passing game with ZERO TDs.  We need BALANCE, BALANCE and BALANCE just in the receiving game.  We can't rely on 3 guys to carry the load.  Welker, Gronk and Hern accounted for 72% of all catches and yards and 79% of all passing TDs.  In the 4 games we lost, Hern didn't play in the BUF game and Gronk was basically out of the SB game so if we lose one of the three, the chances of beating us improve greatly.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Patriots Mock Draft Tracker

     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Morning Boys, Below is my first board stack, with a Top 5 per round as well as additional options.  This list is fluid and will likely look different come draft day and as more info/video becomes available: Rd 1 Rd 2 S- Mark   Barron DL- Kendall Reyes DL- Fletcher Cox S- Harrison Smith LB- Dont'a Hightower S- George Iloka C- Peter Konz WR- Rueben Randle CB/S- Stephon Gilmore DE/OLB- Vinny Curry   C- Ben Jones   CB- Brandon Boykin   DE/OLB Chandler Jones   OG Kevin Zeitler     Rd 3 Rd 4 DE/OLB- Shea McClellin WR- Marvin Jones CB- Shaun Prater LB- Audie Cole WR- Joe Adams DE/OLB- Jake Bequette DL- Alameda Ta'amu DL- Derek Wolfe OG/OT- Senio Kelemete WR- Ryan Broyles CB- Leonard Johnson DL- Kheeston Randall OT- Mitchell Schwartz WR- Marvin McNutt DT- Josh Chapman WR- Jarius Wright     Rd's 5-URFA   C/OG- Quentin Saulsberry- Miss State   OG- Joe Looney- Wake Forest   DE/OLB- Brett Roy- Nevada   LB- Kyle Wilber- Wake Forest   WR- Devon Wylie- Fresno State   OG/OT- Markus Zusevics- Iowa   WR- Marquis Maze- Alabama   OT- Andrew Datko- FSU   CB- Robert Blanton- ND   RB- Jonas Gray- ND   TE- George Bryan- NC State   DL- Matt Conrath- Virginia   DL- Taylor Thompson- SMU   DT- Dominique Hamilton- Mizzou   OLB- Darius Fleming- ND   TE- Chase Ford- Miami   DL- Ryan Van Bergen- Michigan   RB- Davin Meggett- Maryland   OLB- Vince Browne- Northwestern   DT- Ethan Johnson- ND   CB- Ron Brooks- LSU S- Brandon Taylor- LSU  
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    Solid board Mike.  I bet the Pats board doesn't look all that different.  Word is they might only have 35-50 players on their board.  I like that you included Maze and Broyles.  These guys will slip due to injury and a team that is patient like NE, that isn't looking for 7 new starters can afford to take one and wait, like we did with Cannon last year or McKenzie and Tate in previous years although neither of the later really panned out.  But I think Maze and Broyles are different caliber players.

    You certainly have a solid pulse on the late round types which is an excellent resource because honestly I didn't have time this year to get much deeper than top 120 plus we don't have any late picks, yet.  Thanks, I will study your board further but I see a lot of the same guys that I like on there, except Meggett.  He isn't close to being his dad.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Solid board Mike.  I bet the Pats board doesn't look all that different.  Word is they might only have 35-50 players on their board.  I like that you included Maze and Broyles.  These guys will slip due to injury and a team that is patient like NE, that isn't looking for 7 new starters can afford to take one and wait, like we did with Cannon last year or McKenzie and Tate in previous years although neither of the later really panned out.  But I think Maze and Broyles are different caliber players. You certainly have a solid pulse on the late round types which is an excellent resource because honestly I didn't have time this year to get much deeper than top 120 plus we don't have any late picks, yet.  Thanks, I will study your board further but I see a lot of the same guys that I like on there, except Meggett.  He isn't close to being his dad.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Solid board Mike.  I bet the Pats board doesn't look all that different.  Word is they might only have 35-50 players on their board.  I like that you included Maze and Broyles.  These guys will slip due to injury and a team that is patient like NE, that isn't looking for 7 new starters can afford to take one and wait, like we did with Cannon last year or McKenzie and Tate in previous years although neither of the later really panned out.  But I think Maze and Broyles are different caliber players.

    Thanks, Andy (I hope I got that right, ha).  Yeah, those two kids could represent value and both of which are more proven at the college level than Tate.

    You certainly have a solid pulse on the late round types which is an excellent resource because honestly I didn't have time this year to get much deeper than top 120 plus we don't have any late picks, yet.  Thanks, I will study your board further but I see a lot of the same guys that I like on there, except Meggett.  He isn't close to being his dad.

    Thanks.  My goal was to look for kids that while considered late rounders, may have coveted size or length or versatility or speed or quicks or motor or upside or ability on ST etc., that could interest BB and allow them to stick.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : If only life were that simple....Whether we have an outside wr threat or a THIRD TE to complement TB's targets we still are vulnerable by not having a sound running game. It's a two-headed monster on the negative side...lack of a sound running game goes beyond the quality of our RBs since our weakness in the middle of our OL allows too much pressure up the middle and too little thrust into an opponents backfield. We need to create running room for our RBs with a road grader that is game ready! I don't subscribe to the notion (at this juncture of TB's last 3 years) to draft an OL or C later in the draft so Scar can work his magic.  Are we forgetting that we need to draft (or sign in FA) a CENTER that is already game ready if we are to capitalize on Tom's remaining years.  In other words, there is an urgency to get this team "fixed" now so that TB finally has a full deck to work with. Perhaps even if the "fix" is only for 3 years and saving  later round selections for the future but certainly not confusing present needs with future needs. By the way, welcome back....to the fray!
    Posted by moskk[/QUOTE]
    Well said.  Very well said actually.  In general we need a dominating OL that can pass block and run block.  OLs love to run block but I agree that I don't see a lot of push up the middle.  Mankins wasn't the same after he strained his MCL but Waters and Connolly actually did pretty good I felt.  Waters especially did better in the run game then I thought he would.  This topic goes back to what I was saying about need interior OL help. 

    Brady was signed through 2014 for one major reason.  He will be 38 before heading into the 2015 season.  You can count the number of great 38 year old QBs on 1 pinkie finger.  So, you're right, we have maybe 3 years left for Brady to lead us back to the promised land.  I say "maybe" because I cannot rule out Brady being dealt before 2014 to get "value" for him.  At this point, would we take a 1st and 3rd for Brady in 2014 when he's 37?  I would not put this past the Patriots because we've seen it done with Seymour, Vrabel and others - getting value when you can.  But this topic isn't ripe for at least 2 years.

    So, for me when I look at the strength of the draft and past Patriot moves, the Pats ALWAYS plug holes with free agency before the draft (except last year which doesn' count).  Since the draft is thin at S, I look for them to fill this need on March 13 or 14.  BB also doesn't like draft DE/OLB conversion types so I look for him to add 1-2 there in F/A, Anderson being one.  We are also thin along the DL but this is a deep class for DL.  This is also a pretty good class for OL and WR.  But BB will likely not leave anything for chance.  If either Light or Waters retire, I look for BB to certainly add an interior OL type plus bring back Connolly.  Connolly coming back is a near certainty to me.

    So, where do we spend our money in Free Agency?  I'm thinking S, WR, DE/OLB type, RB and perhaps OL, DE and maybe CB.  We could sign 1-2 big names besides Welker, the rest would be low budget guys.  Mario Williams and Carl Nicks are likely to be the best and most expensive option at their positions.  I don't think we'd pull the trigger on either but instead get 2nd tier guys.  If there was one guy BB might do it for, it would be Williams as we saw him do it for Adalius Thomas unless that was a bad lesson learned.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Cordy Glenn is looking very impressive at the combine.  If he falls to 27, highly doubt that happens but say he does is he worth the pick?  Guy can play OT and either OG spot.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Cordy Glenn is looking very impressive at the combine.  If he falls to 27, highly doubt that happens but say he does is he worth the pick?  Guy can play OT and either OG spot.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    All depends who's on the board, but wouldn't rule it out, kid moves very well for a 345 pounder.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : Solid board Mike.  I bet the Pats board doesn't look all that different.  Word is they might only have 35-50 players on their board.  I like that you included Maze and Broyles.  These guys will slip due to injury and a team that is patient like NE, that isn't looking for 7 new starters can afford to take one and wait, like we did with Cannon last year or McKenzie and Tate in previous years although neither of the later really panned out.  But I think Maze and Broyles are different caliber players. Thanks, Andy (I hope I got that right, ha).   Yeah, those two kids could represent value and both of which are more proven at the college level than Tate. You certainly have a solid pulse on the late round types which is an excellent resource because honestly I didn't have time this year to get much deeper than top 120 plus we don't have any late picks, yet.  Thanks, I will study your board further but I see a lot of the same guys that I like on there, except Meggett.  He isn't close to being his dad. Thanks.   My goal was to look for kids that while considered late rounders, may have coveted size or length or versatility or speed or quicks or motor or upside or ability on ST etc., that could interest BB and allow them to stick.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]
    You got it right:). 
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]Cordy Glenn is looking very impressive at the combine.  If he falls to 27, highly doubt that happens but say he does is he worth the pick?  Guy can play OT and either OG spot.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    I'm behind in the Combine but saw the first hour or so and NO DOUBT, if Cordy Glenn is there at 27, he's high on my list after seeing his performance.  He's way faster than anyone imagined, 1.76 split in a 4.96 40 at 345 lbs.  Are you freaking kidding me?  He's 1.76 10 was the same as Joe Thomas and Jake Long.  I don't know if he'll be a right tackle or a guard but to have someone like this, really a more athletic Marcus Cannon, who you can play anywhere but Center would be huge value at 27 IMO. 

    Glenn would kill two birds with one stone.  He played mostly LT so if we lost both Light and Waters but picked up Glenn, now we've got 3 guys who can play LT, 4 guys who can play RT and 2 guys who can play RG.  We save $7.5MM in cap and a roster spot, all possible if we got this kid.

    As Mayock's 5th tackle, he should be there at 27 but as the #2 OG, it gets a little tougher for him to drop.  If Konz goes ahead of him along with the 4 higher rated OTs, then I think it totally possible for Glenn to slip to 27.  If no better options present; this would be one pick to get very excited about for the reasons stated above but we have to have the other half of the equation; we need to use that cap savings to sign some studs on the defensive side of the ball, i.e. Mario Williams.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    Wow, Cordy Glenn is definitaly boosting his stock this weekend.  You're right Faucet, he would have to be considered strongly if he fell to 27.  Random thought...if we could come away from this draft with both Reuben Randle and Joe Adams that would be awesome.  These two SEC recievers have different skill-sets, and would strengthen our recieving corps for years to come.
     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18! : ...Whether we have an outside wr threat or a THIRD TE to complement TB's targets we still are vulnerable by not having a sound running game. It's a two-headed monster on the negative side...lack of a sound running game goes beyond the quality of our RBs since our weakness in the middle of our OL allows too much pressure up the middle and too little thrust into an opponents backfield. We need to create running room for our RBs with a road grader that is game ready! ...
    Posted by moskk[/QUOTE]

    i completely agree with the running game assessment. i would even extend that a little bit. i believe that from a capability perspective, ridley is the answer. he needs to learn to take care of the ball, but i believe he is the well-rounded back whose big gain capability needs to be respected. the fix to the running game in theory, is in the OL. but even that i am not sure does the job. i hope i am wrong but until they really integrate the running game seriously in their philosophy - i.e., not teat it as some smoke and mirror/ mirage - i have my doubts.

    all speculation of course but to me the offense has turned into one with a glamour mentality. it lost its hard-nosed, blue collar, everybody is given the chance to pitch in, grind it out mentality. i don't know if josh is the type of oc who would bring back the grinder type offense.

    one argument i heard is that they don't need to do that because of the elite passing game. i argue that over-dependence on the passing game allows other teams to study it throughout the season so that eventually someone figures it out in the playoffs. by extension, a real running game actually will help the passing game excel in the playoffs. 

    that running game is not going to happen unless they invest time and effort to develop it. i also think there is a parallel to developing outside WRs.



     
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    Re: ***2012 Patriots Draft Thread*** MOCK V2 ADDED 2/18!

    i want an interior OL with bigger bodies and elite talent
     

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