3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince


    Kind of tough to play a 34 without a nose tackle no matter if Spikes is on the field or not. Truth is we should of signed more quality defensive linemen when we had the chance - or heaven forbid draft one - now we are left with a boatload of cash and free agent tackles that should be working at Taco Bell. This is what happens when you take four years to rebuild your defense..the foundation falls down before the house goes up. And for all the people that say we couldn't of planned for this or foreseen this happening...wake up...put down the coolaid. Eighty percent of this board thought they were playing Wilfork too much and 100% of the people on here knew we had nothing behind him waiting in the wings.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Yeah, I don't see more traditional 3-4 like the pats ran in the past in our future, but do agree with Z. The pats will mix it up and put the best 11 on the field to play the run and pass. 

    I think we have a ton of options really. Why not a line of nink, Kelly, jones and buchannon? sub vellano for Kelly and jones/Francis for jones/buchannon. Or buchannon, Kelly, vellano, jones. We are not going to have the same size, but we may have a bit more speed inside.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    The Pats didn't exactly rush out there to make a signing, I think Belichick must really like Armstead and thinks he can fill in just fine for Vince. 

     

    Armstead's set to return for the Saints, might not be 100% game ready until we head back from the BYE. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Nascar defence.....4 defensive ends.....Hightower,Nink,Collens,Jones
                                                                        Mayo,Spikes    

                                                               Talib                          Dennard

                                                                                Harmon

                                                          Mccourty                       Gregory                                             

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from part-timer. Show part-timer's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to 49Patriots's comment:

     

    The Pats didn't exactly rush out there to make a signing, I think Belichick must really like Armstead and thinks he can fill in just fine for Vince. 

     

    Armstead's set to return for the Saints, might not be 100% game ready until we head back from the BYE. 

     



    Armstead can start to practice after the saints game and be eligible to play for the dolphins game, but more likely after the bye week...He is not allowed to practice on the NFI list,just rehab and conditioning...

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Yup! Let's just wheel out Kelly, flanked with Vellano and Jones, and put Chandler Jones at OLB (where he's never played), all so we can accomodate a one-dimensional linebacker (whom I love his game).

    Had the Patriots had the DL depth like they had in, say, 2010 (Pryor, Brace, Deaderick, Love), I'd say go for it. They had the chance to then. But not anymore. Now, they'll be starting a scrub in a 4-3.

    In BB I trust, though. I think he'll figure out some way to get this thing right. They won't be as good without him, obviously, but he may be able to do some patch work.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to TheGuyWithDaThing's comment:

    Yup! Let's just wheel out Kelly, flanked with Vellano and Jones, and put Chandler Jones at OLB (where he's never played), all so we can accomodate a one-dimensional linebacker (whom I love his game).

    Had the Patriots had the DL depth like they had in, say, 2010 (Pryor, Brace, Deaderick, Love), I'd say go for it. They had the chance to then. But not anymore. Now, they'll be starting a scrub in a 4-3.

    In BB I trust, though. I think he'll figure out some way to get this thing right. They won't be as good without him, obviously, but he may be able to do some patch work.



    Starting a scrub??? Ouch, would you say that to his face?  Let's give the guy a chance.  He had a sack against Atlanta if you were keeping count.  Let see how many more he gets throughout the season.  

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

    I'm not really sure what this discussion is about.  i've heard over and over again that BB has the deepest roster in the NFL with great depth at every position because he is the master of the cap era.  Certainly, there is a great backup for fat vince on the roster.  

    Be honest with yourselves, though.  You've seen the last of VW.  He'll be nearly 33 by the time he is able to play again.  1/3 of NFL skill players NEVER return from this kind of injury.  VW ain't no skill player.  

    Good thing BB budgets 20 mil a year for dead money, cause fat Vince's 11.5 mil next year is gonna take more than half.



    Of course you don't know what this thread it about.. you're on the wrong forum dummy.  You still haven't replied to me back on the other thread I killed you on.  How's your new franchise QB looking?  Another butt fumble, really??? 

    Jets suck.  How you show your face here trolling is what I am confused about.  

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I'm not really sure what this discussion is about.  i've heard over and over again that BB has the deepest roster in the NFL with great depth at every position because he is the master of the cap era.  Certainly, there is a great backup for fat vince on the roster.  

    Be honest with yourselves, though.  You've seen the last of VW.  He'll be nearly 33 by the time he is able to play again.  1/3 of NFL skill players NEVER return from this kind of injury.  VW ain't no skill player.  

    Good thing BB budgets 20 mil a year for dead money, cause fat Vince's 11.5 mil next year is gonna take more than half.

     

     



    Of course you don't know what this thread it about.. you're on the wrong forum dummy.  You still haven't replied to me back on the other thread I killed you on.  How's your new franchise QB looking?  Another butt fumble, really??? 

     

     

    Jets suck.  How you show your face here trolling is what I am confused about.  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh, how sad, Getzo is falling apart in a tantrum.  Miss your nappy?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Defeat... awesome. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to CaptnCrunch's comment:

    In response to nyjetsssucc's comment:

     

    Howdy Cap, how the heck are ya!!!   :)

     

     

    THE BUMP!!!...I remember the bump, I'm sorry to say

     

    OH the Good Ol' Days! Whats happenin' J-E-T-S...SUC, SUC, SUC! So Jetssuc, check it out......speaking of what use to be:

    With all due respect to Vince Wilfork, his season has been very pedestrian thus far, regardless of the reasons (playing hurt, age catching up, weight slowing him down, etc.), here is how he's fared to date:

    Solo Tackles: 4 Assited: 5  Total: 9

    That said, Tomy Kelly shows more productivity:

    Solo Tackles: 10 Assited: 9  Total: 19

    I realize that this is only a small sample size, and that without Vince we lose more than player production, but also genuine leadership. BUT as for performance, Vince was far from being the dominant force that we all knew as reacently as early last year and he wasn't going to improve at 31+ and 400lbs. So, I say this could end up being a blessing in disguise..........Would I rather have a healthy Vince? Time will tell. Regardless, I beleive that Bill will do what he always does and make lemonade out of lemons........



    You can't look strictly at stats on this one. On running plays they ran away from Wilforks side which means Kelly naturally has more chances to make plays. Also Wilfork was consistently dbl'd up in the 2 gap while Kelly was mostly left singled. Little hard to get the stats when the O is obviously game planning around you. Don't pay attention to stats when it comes to Vince. He was never a big stat guy to begin with, but what you need to look for is the flow of the game. The minute Vince went down Atl started running between the tackles. That's the difference vince makes.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to Getzo's comment:

    This was an answer in a mail box to Tedy B....

    "Spikes is a package-specific player in this system. A run-stopping LB. The team was mainly in sub defenses against the Falcons. That's why Hightower got more reps. Hightower is a better all around 'backer in my opinion. Now with the Wilfork injury, I wouldn't put it past this coaching staff to line up in a 34 defensive look and just send Spikes into the line on an every-down basis."

    I was thinking the samething with Spikes.  Have him just use his insticts as to where a run would take place, which he has a great feel for shooting the hole and blowing up run plays in the back field.  

    This would help to get our best players onto the field as our linebackers is a strength, but Spikes sits for sub packages...  This way they can keep him on the field more often.  

    Thoughts?




    This makes a ton of sense...  BB loves flexibility so having that ability to move spikes around for the matchup you want would be confusing for an OL.

    Also spikes is big enough to take on and blow up an OL when he hits a gap with momentum. 

    This would also give him the flexibility to line up spikes over the TE (I.e.  Gonzalez...?) and shut him down by cutting off his release.  They threw everybody at Gonzalez except the one guy who was strong enough to push him around.  Would like to have seen that matchup.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Nick (Miami)



    Good Afternoon Mike, Are we going to see some more of Spikes on run downs since Vince is gone for season?

    Mike   (12:10 PM)



    Nick, I expect to see more of Spikes this week than the 6 snaps he played Sunday night against the Falcons. We know the Patriots were mostly in their sub defense against the Falcons, but the Bengals are primarily as "12 personnel" team -- 1 back, 2 tight ends. Usually that means the Patriots match with their base defense. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 3-4 this week with Tommy Kelly, Joe Vellano and Chandler Jones on the line, with Rob Ninkovich/Dont'a Hightower the OLBs and Brandon Spikes and Jerod Mayo the ILBs. Could be the right formula in this specific matchup.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    Good thread Getzo.

        







    "Defense Wins Championships"
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.

     



    Exactly. You need three bigs on the field on a 3-4, 2 bigs on a 4-3 (conventionally, that is).

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So Jones is big enough to play INSIDE, in a 4-3, THIS YEAR, but couldn't play outside, in a 3-4?

    Interesting take guys.

    Vellano is 6'2, 300lbs. Buchanan is 6'6, 255. Both have played, effectively, on the inside.

    Don't get too caught up in stereotypes, if you do, you'll realize players are "out of position" all over the Pats roster.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.

     

     



    Exactly. You need three bigs on the field on a 3-4, 2 bigs on a 4-3 (conventionally, that is).

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So Jones is big enough to play INSIDE, in a 4-3, THIS YEAR, but couldn't play outside, in a 3-4?

     

    Interesting take guys.

    Vellano is 6'2, 300lbs. Buchanan is 6'6, 255. Both have played, effectively, on the inside.

    Don't get too caught up in stereotypes, if you do, you'll realize players are "out of position" all over the Pats roster.

    [/QUOTE]

    All I know is that the Pats like sending 3 or 4 linemen against the pass. Until this year, they struggled to put pressure on the QB, particularly inside. Having VW and Kelly there actually allowed them to collapse the pocket when they really want to.

    All these schemes without VW? It's one thing to put it out there every now and then when VW is resting. It's another to put it out there on every play.

    You could be right. Different people. Maybe it works. Let's hope it works.

    If it does not... it's 2011 all over again. The other team sees the Pats front is not so robust. They pound the ball. Pats give up yards on the ground. Pats react by moving up the LBs a yard or so forward, to help against the run. It works stop the run. But BB's instruction to the seondary is to not give up the big play, so they keep the receivers in front of them. Leaves a big gap between LBs and secondaries. Outside receiver curls, boom first down. Or QB throws a mid pass to the middle just behind the LBs (post, drag, whatever, it does not matter). Secondary does not touch the receiver until 10-15 YAC. The we all sing together how bad the secondary is.

    As I said in another post. The D did not test well in the past when VW was out. I'd be thrilled to see them make it work this time.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: 3-4 To make up the lose of Vince

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Tedy's probably forgotten more defensive football this hour than I will learn in my lifetime, but we don't have the bigs to run a 34. Kelly and Vellano are DEs in a 34, Jones, your best rusher, is an OLB, but he's never played there...

    Can't see it.

     

     

     



    Exactly. You need three bigs on the field on a 3-4, 2 bigs on a 4-3 (conventionally, that is).

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So Jones is big enough to play INSIDE, in a 4-3, THIS YEAR, but couldn't play outside, in a 3-4?

     

     

    Interesting take guys.

    Vellano is 6'2, 300lbs. Buchanan is 6'6, 255. Both have played, effectively, on the inside.

    Don't get too caught up in stereotypes, if you do, you'll realize players are "out of position" all over the Pats roster.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    All I know is that the Pats like sending 3 or 4 linemen against the pass. Until this year, they struggled to put pressure on the QB, particularly inside. Having VW and Kelly there actually allowed them to collapse the pocket when they really want to.

     

    All these schemes without VW? It's one thing to put it out there every now and then when VW is resting. It's another to put it out there on every play.

    You could be right. Different people. Maybe it works. Let's hope it works.

    If it does not... it's 2011 all over again. The other team sees the Pats front is not so robust. They pound the ball. Pats give up yards on the ground. Pats react by moving up the LBs a yard or so forward, to help against the run. It works stop the run. But BB's instruction to the seondary is to not give up the big play, so they keep the receivers in front of them. Leaves a big gap between LBs and secondaries. Outside receiver curls, boom first down. Or QB throws a mid pass to the middle just behind the LBs (post, drag, whatever, it does not matter). Secondary does not touch the receiver until 10-15 YAC. The we all sing together how bad the secondary is.

    As I said in another post. The D did not test well in the past when VW was out. I'd be thrilled to see them make it work this time.

    [/QUOTE]

     

    .... 2011 all over again. The other team sees the Pats front is not so robust. They pound the ball....

     

     

    It will be interesting to see how teams approach the loss of VW...

      Cinci likes to run BJGE up the middle and since ex-players always show up against their former teams, you can expect at least 20 carries for Bennie.  This will test whatever scheme or personnel that BB comes up with.

      The fact that vince is out will have a psychological effect too, like do players overreact to it and try to do too much...?   If this week pats have trouble stopping the run, Cincinnati is the type of team to worry about.

     Im glad spikes is rested...lol...  Having played only 4 snaps last week?  That has to be a slap , but hmmm...  Maybe that's why they gave up 500 yards...

     

     

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