32 high draft picks over 7 years.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to msteven's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It would be interesting to look at the other 31 teams in the league during these same 7 years.  How many have had any better success than the Patriots.  Every team has some hits and some misses.  Most kids coming out of college have strengths and weaknesses.  The NFL is bigger, faster, and stronger than the college ranks.  Many first rounders never make it in the nfl.  Vollmer was thought to be a reach when BB picked him.  Many would take him in an earlier round if the draft was done over.  Jones, Mayo, Dennard, Vereen, Ryan, Allen, etc.  make up a fine groups of selections and UDFA's.  If fans think that BB does not draft well, please go root for Oakland, San diego, Dallas, Washington, etc.  They usually have a high draft pick and do so well at  selecting players.

    [/QUOTE]

    None of them had more succes, and none of them had as many draft picks. BB loads up on more picks, which means that more guys will not flourish on the team,  because they had less of a chance by being drafted into more competition.  If we have 8 or 9 draft picks a year on a roster that competes for SB's every year( not the Raiders) then it will be more difficult for guys to stick, as they are fighting for a spot against guys who are already playing on a championship team. 

    But guys who want to try and tesr down what Bill Belichick has built in N.E will not let that facy slow them down. Bb sucks! Lol

    [/QUOTE]


    Oh yes, That makes perfect sense.  Let's just trade back and back and back to accumulate a bunch of players that we don't need, will never contribute, and will be thrown in the trash, promptly, along with the cost of drafting them..

    Here's a novel idea,  Why not pick talent.  You know, someone that may actually contribute for the duration of their contract and beyond..

    Do you think we would be starting 9 rookies right now, if any of these bust had stuck?

    UGH  Doesn't look very hard to break the roster to me.  They've has a constant need for DB's. receivers and someone (anyone) to rush the passer.

    I read an article that put BB's 06 draft as the 5th WORST of all time, for all teams

    Google it.

    Here's a question for ya, since 2006, in ten years from now when we fondly look back at the team (as we do to the SB teams, now), which of those players are we going to say, "he was a beast"?

    I said BEAST, not BUST.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death? 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Apparently not. We still have some stragglers claiming BB is some sort of great team-builder. I thought this was a good way to pose the question. It is very telling in my view.

    Do you have a selection of those that you think were great picks, z? I'm curious as to what you think. You do tend to be objective more often than many.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not being a BB apologist, but it should be taken into consideration that the Patriots have drafted at the end of the draft every year since 2001 since they have had success on the field every single year.  The early draft picks they did have were from trades with other teams and not consistently picked at the top of the draft in later rounds.

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you taking into consideration that BB hasn't had to worry about finding a franchise QB for 12 years, while others have had to expend huge draft resources in search of that? Probably not. People tend to see only the things that bolster their point of view.

    That lament about not drafting at the top of the rounds is rather moot, since before the rookie wage scale, top 10 picks were a huge financial gamble against the cap.

    [/QUOTE]

    That is the single greatest benefit that Bill has is a franchise QB and it is a huge consideration.  That said, he did not get Brady nor all of the successful Patriots in the early rounds as I pointed out.  I think outside of the four year span that I laid out earlier in this thread, the Patriots have done an above average job of drafting overall.  They did well enough to keep the team competitive for over a decade and there isn't much more you can ask out of the team. 

    The lament about not drafting at the top of rounds does not affect just the first round when top 10 picks are there, but it also means that each subsequent round you pick after all the other teams as well at the bottom of rounds when compensation isn't as much of a factor. 

    I'm not sure where you are going with your point, but it seems to be geared towards saying the Patriots do not draft well.  I think they do an above average job overall as proven by the results.  They had some really poor draft years to go along with some really great ones... but usually it is a slightly above average draft where they get a few regular starters to stay with the team for many years. 

    If you want to point out something that the team does a below average job of, it might be signing the big name free agents.  We struck out on a number of them like Chad Ochocinco, Rosevelt Colvin, Leon Washington, Lloyd (not a pure strikeout, but not great) and many other examples. 

    The most noticable problem with fans is the way the Pats let their good players leave with bad feelings and a bridge burned at times.  Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, Richard Seymore and Welker are names that come to mind right off the bat, but there are many more.

    I think some of this is balanced off by the above average trades that the Patriots tend to make.  We had great success with the trades for Moss, Welker, Dillon etc.  I think the team is constructed from humans and humans make mistakes, it is just that the Pats tend to make less of them in the long run and got lucky by drafting a hall of fame QB early in Bill's tenure with the team. 

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    But saying they were a "great pick" at the time simply makes no sense whatsoever. The worth of a pick is realized only after they actually play. That's the whole point of determining if they were a great pick or not.

    This concept you are embracing here is a real head scratcher. I just can't recall anybody ever proposing that a draft pick's quality is determined when they are drafted, rather than after they have shown how well they can play in the NFL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe, I agree with you on how to measure the worth of a pick.   However, given that, you really should not include the 2013 draft class and the 2012 class inclusion is debatable as well.  Not enough time has passed.

    You are trying to have it both ways.

    [/QUOTE]


    We have pretty much a year in the one case and two in the other. I usually use 2 years as the benchmark to conclude if a player was a good pick. Not that there isn't an occasional player who steps up after that. But then, I say you need impact players from the draft while they are cheap on the rookie contract. Project guys like say an Edelman are a suckers bet in today's NFL. By the time they develop their cheap contract is up and you're paying at least close to market value to keep them.

    But in any case, for the most part, a GREAT pick should be evident even after only one year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death? 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Apparently not. We still have some stragglers claiming BB is some sort of great team-builder. I thought this was a good way to pose the question. It is very telling in my view.

    Do you have a selection of those that you think were great picks, z? I'm curious as to what you think. You do tend to be objective more often than many.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Great, itself, is a subjective term. It's always an invitation to an ifinite digression of arguments. 

    I think the Mayo, DMC, Solder, Vollmer, Vereen, Ridley, Jones, Spikes, and Hightower are all quality players so far. 

    Some others weren't straight busts, but you might have hoped for more. 

    A few of them really never amounted to anything (Wheatley, Crable, Ras-I).

    The jury is still out on Ryan, Dobson, et al. So, no comment. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    Are you for flooking real? Vereen & Ridley are great picks?  One, if not both are busts.  Mallet a great pick?  Why?  Dowling?  Just say it, FIRST ROUND BUST and BB traded up for him.  Hightower? Great pick? Ok, I've had it.  You're a freakin moron.

    [/QUOTE]

    Vereen is our best offensive player right now at a skill position who is healthy.  He was injured most of the year, but when he has been in there his presense is felt very strong.  I would hardly call that a bust.  Ridley had 1,263 yards last year with a career 4.4 ypc... besides his well documented fumble problem this year, he is hardly a bust.  Both players are on rookie contracts for short money and will be here for another handful of years.

    I don't see Mallet as a great pick myself, but honestly we haven't had to see Ryan play enough to really make a judgement and I hope we never will.  Dowling was a huge bust and was a dissapointment.  Hightower has not lived up to expectations so far, but I would not call that a bust quite yet. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    Both Babe and Rusty, if they can somehow get along, should march into Bob Kraft's office, demand BB be fired for the way he has handled the Patriots in his tenure as HC/GM and hire them as tandem HC/GM.  There is no doubt they both know more about how to coach and draft in the NFL in their pinkies than BB knows in all his 30+ years in the NFL.  If this happens, we may see the greatest run of SB wins in the history of the NFL as the Pats will not lose one until either one of them is dead.  Just the thought of this gives me shivers!

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

    [/QUOTE]

    You mean there is a horse underneath all this pile of rehashed sh*t?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

    [/QUOTE]

    You mean there is a horse underneath all this pile of rehashed sh*t?

    [/QUOTE]

    And just where, sir, do you think that rehashed horsesh*t came from?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Both Babe and Rusty, if they can somehow get along, should march into Bob Kraft's office, demand BB be fired for the way he has handled the Patriots in his tenure as HC/GM and hire them as tandem HC/GM.  There is no doubt they both know more about how to coach and draft in the NFL in their pinkies than BB knows in all his 30+ years in the NFL.  If this happens, we may see the greatest run of SB wins in the history of the NFL as the Pats will not lose one until either one of them is dead.  Just the thought of this gives me shivers!

    [/QUOTE]

    Rusty would immediately bench Brady. Babe would bench the rest of the team. 

    Who would play?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Both Babe and Rusty, if they can somehow get along, should march into Bob Kraft's office, demand BB be fired for the way he has handled the Patriots in his tenure as HC/GM and hire them as tandem HC/GM.  There is no doubt they both know more about how to coach and draft in the NFL in their pinkies than BB knows in all his 30+ years in the NFL.  If this happens, we may see the greatest run of SB wins in the history of the NFL as the Pats will not lose one until either one of them is dead.  Just the thought of this gives me shivers!

    [/QUOTE]

    Rusty would immediately bench Brady. Babe would bench the rest of the team. 

    Who would play?

    [/QUOTE]

    Babe and Rusty. They'd also coach, draft and manage the cap.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Both Babe and Rusty, if they can somehow get along, should march into Bob Kraft's office, demand BB be fired for the way he has handled the Patriots in his tenure as HC/GM and hire them as tandem HC/GM.  There is no doubt they both know more about how to coach and draft in the NFL in their pinkies than BB knows in all his 30+ years in the NFL.  If this happens, we may see the greatest run of SB wins in the history of the NFL as the Pats will not lose one until either one of them is dead.  Just the thought of this gives me shivers!

    [/QUOTE]


    Priceless!! LOL

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.


    I dont care too much about draft picks. Its the free agents that have hurt this team the most in recent years. In terms of posters always pointing to BB finding undfrafted free agents to offset the busts...well EVERY team finds undrafted free agent players that can play. Remember us all being giddy about K.T.? myself included...I still like him...but.....

    Marlon Brown sais Hi?  If you are not familiar,. you will be after sundays game.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

    [/QUOTE]


    This hoss got a lot of life left!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  



    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

    [/QUOTE]

    You mean there is a horse underneath all this pile of rehashed sh*t?

    [/QUOTE]

    And just where, sir, do you think that rehashed horsesh*t came from?

    [/QUOTE]


    C'mon ATJ. Answer the question instead of complaining. We need the wisdom of the aged on this. Thanks in advance. Smile

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Are you for flooking real? Vereen & Ridley are great picks?  One, if not both are busts.  Mallet a great pick?  Why?  Dowling?  Just say it, FIRST ROUND BUST and BB traded up for him.  Hightower? Great pick? Ok, I've had it.  You're a freakin moron.

    [/QUOTE]

    Vereen is our best offensive player right now at a skill position who is healthy.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is kind of funny. You mentioning Vereen and healthy in the same breath I mean.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's more like "Groundhog Day"... I can't get that stupid Sonny & Cher song out of my head now.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxDOrtiz. Show RedSoxDOrtiz's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RedSoxDOrtiz's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Are you for flooking real? Vereen & Ridley are great picks?  One, if not both are busts.  Mallet a great pick?  Why?  Dowling?  Just say it, FIRST ROUND BUST and BB traded up for him.  Hightower? Great pick? Ok, I've had it.  You're a freakin moron.

    [/QUOTE]

    Vereen is our best offensive player right now at a skill position who is healthy.

    [/QUOTE]

    This is kind of funny. You mentioning Vereen and healthy in the same breath I mean.

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember a time when Eddleman was the guy who couldn't stay on the field... seems to be working out right now.  Vereen is averaging 100 yards of offense in every game he has been in this year.  I expect him to be healthy the rest of the way or we are up a creek without a paddle. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    For what it's worth, here are the all-time rankings from Pro Football Reference for the players drafted from 2006-2010 by the Pats in rounds 1-3:

    (For reference, they rate Tom Brady #14 All-Time, Richard Seymour #237, Vince Wilfork #469)

    In my opinion, their ranking system is pretty good.   If you are rated 1-1000 you are an all-time great;   1001-3000 = very good;  anything over 10,000 is a bust

    David Thomas             7592

    Chad Jackson       11682

    Laurence Maroney    3942

    Brandon Meriweather 4226

    Kevin O'Connell    14969

    Shawn Crable       14969

    Terrence Wheatley  13131

    Jerod Mayo          2031

    Tyrone McKenzie    13131

    Brandon Tate        6959

    Sebastian Vollmer   2935

    Darius Butler       7224

    Ron Brace           8842

    Patrick Chung       6665

    Taylor Price       13131

    Brandon Spike       6665

    Jer. Cunningham     7909

    Rob Gronkowski      3662

    Devin McCourty      4391

     

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For what it's worth, here are the all-time rankings from Pro Football Reference for the players drafted from 2006-2010 by the Pats in rounds 1-3:

    (For reference, they rate Tom Brady #14 All-Time, Richard Seymour #237, Vince Wilfork #469)

    In my opinion, their ranking system is pretty good.   If you are rated 1-1000 you are an all-time great;   1001-3000 = very good;  anything over 10,000 is a bust

    David Thomas             7592

    Chad Jackson       11682

    Laurence Maroney    3942

    Brandon Meriweather 4226

    Kevin O'Connell    14969

    Shawn Crable       14969

    Terrence Wheatley  13131

    Jerod Mayo          2031

    Tyrone McKenzie    13131

    Brandon Tate        6959

    Sebastian Vollmer   2935

    Darius Butler       7224

    Ron Brace           8842

    Patrick Chung       6665

    Taylor Price       13131

    Brandon Spike       6665

    Jer. Cunningham     7909

    Rob Gronkowski      3662

    Devin McCourty      4391

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    That is quite good, though Maroney and Meriweather seem rated too high. And it looks like tendency to injury is not a strong criteria.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    But haven't we done this to death?  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    But not to the point where P.E.T.A. intervenes to keep us from beating this long dead horse.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You mean there is a horse underneath all this pile of rehashed sh*t?

    [/QUOTE]

    And just where, sir, do you think that rehashed horsesh*t came from?

    [/QUOTE]


    C'mon ATJ. Answer the question instead of complaining. We need the wisdom of the aged on this. Thanks in advance. Smile

    [/QUOTE]

    Wisdom of the aged?  Well for one thing that assumes that I'm both old and wise.  Old I'll admit; wise - well a wise-a_ss perhaps. 

    But just for you, Babe, I'll play along:

    Great picks:  Mayo, Vollmer, McCourty, Gronk, Spikes, Vereen

    Good picks with great potential:  Solder, Ridley, Hightower

    Good picks more info needed:  Mallet

    Acceptable:  Meriweather, Chung, Maroney

    Shows promise but too early to tell:  Dobson, Ryan, Collins, Harmon 

     

    Poster disclaimer:  I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of wisdom in any of the foregoing characterizations.  

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: 32 high draft picks over 7 years.

    In response to TripleOG's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I dont care too much about draft picks. Its the free agents that have hurt this team the most in recent years. In terms of posters always pointing to BB finding undfrafted free agents to offset the busts...well EVERY team finds undrafted free agent players that can play. Remember us all being giddy about K.T.? myself included...I still like him...but.....

    Marlon Brown sais Hi?  If you are not familiar,. you will be after sundays game.

    [/QUOTE]


    you know thats a really great point. i always seemed to applaud BB on finding good UDFA talent but there are all teams finding guys like that. now a new one: Da'Rick Rogers. i wanted us to draft him in the 5th-6th round but he had offield issues and didnt get picked. look at him now.

     

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