5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : Fraud.  I would think the fraud would be someone that pretends to be a Pats fan yet bashes the reason the team has been successful for years.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    +1
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    osted at 8/9/2012 2:12 PM EDT
    Posts: 5373
    First: 3/27/2005
    Last: 8/9/2012
    It's funny how some will harp on Belichick for hiring Albert Haynesworth/Ocho/McCourty/Darius Butler/Maroney etc... but criticizing the promotion of Bill O''Brien is off limits.  There's a word for that... hypocritical I think?
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : So, you are ok with 610 passes to 438 rushes for our 35 year old QB? If your not ok with that then by your reasoning you think you know more then BB.  Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    When the QB is Tom Brady and the coach is BB then in the aggregate yes.  It is one thing to criticize the playcalling on an individual drive or maybe even an individual game and say you are not criticizing BB as I agree that it perfectly feasible that he gives his coordinators some room to do their own thing.  However according to many posters on this board this has been an ongoing problem in virtually every game for the past 5 years at least.  You don't think that at some point Belichick might actually say to his coordinators after 80 regular season games and numerous playoff games that we should tone down the amount of passing if he wasn't on board with it?  Do you honestly believe he just let our offensive coordinators @#$% up for 5 straight years because he wants to let them call their own game when they are sabotaging our chance to win?


    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : See? I could say that with anything.   If you think our defense suks then you then you think BB is an idiot and he can't fix it. Even a 3rd grader can see our defense needs to be better so if BB hasn't fixed it then he is just an idiot right? Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    This is a straw man.  First of all you haven't provided any evidence that BB doesn't think the defense needs to improve whereas I think you can make a pretty good argument based on the evidence we have that BB is okay with the amount the team passes in the aggregate.  In addition BB has direct control over the amount the team passes in the aggregate (again he can still let his coordinators call a game while still giving them some general parameters over how much he'd like to incorporate the run game if he isn't happy with the current philosophy) unless you think he just lets his offensive coordinators run amok with no accountability for 5 year periods. On the other hand the play of the defense depends on a lot of things he has very little to no direct control over ranging from the execution of the players, injuries, how draft picks turn out, players aging etc. (i.e life in the NFL).


     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    It's been 4 years since McDaniel's left, it's been 4 coordinators since Weis to be taught, learn lessons on their own, make mistakes etc... I love the idea that BB's football intelligence is somehow magically transferred to his coordinators once they are promoted.  

    In this time BB hasn't had a defensive coordinator because he did it himself.  His overall staff gets stripped every year of key personnel but somehow you all think that has no effect on the overall team.  

    Coaching is actually important, experienced coaches don't happen on their own. Football teams have huge rosters and the number of employees approach the hundreds.  Obviously some of you have never managed a work force, if you had you would be used to them screwing up despite your best efforts.


     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE] I love the idea that BB's football intelligence is somehow magically transferred to his coordinators once they are promoted.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]


    No wozzydoo. I doubt many think BB is imparting his complete football acumen to his coaches in the short term.

    But I think most people believe if BB wanted the team to run more he could somehow relate that to his coaches.

    You seem to think BB walking over and saying "run the f'n ball more" to them is an impossible task.

     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]osted at 8/9/2012 2:12 PM EDT wozzy Posts: 5373 First: 3/27/2005 Last: 8/9/2012 It's funny how some will harp on Belichick for hiring Albert Haynesworth/Ocho/McCourty/Darius Butler/Maroney etc... but criticizing the promotion of Bill O''Brien is off limits.  There's a word for that... hypocritical I think? New post Reply to this post Report Abuse Edit post Delete post This post is hidden because you are ignoring BabeParilli Stop Ignoring BabeParilli This post is hidden because you are ignoring BabeParilli Stop Ignoring BabeParilli This post is hidden because you are ignoring BabeParilli Stop Ignoring BabeParilli This post is hidden because you are ignoring BabeParilli Stop Ignoring BabeParilli
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    No problem wozzydoo. The key is I don't have you on ignore. You can run, but you can't hide.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : When the QB is Tom Brady and the coach is BB then in the aggregate yes.  It is one thing to criticize the playcalling on an individual drive or maybe even an individual game and say you are not criticizing BB as I agree that it perfectly feasible that he gives his coordinators some room to do their own thing.  However according to many posters on this board this has been an ongoing problem in virtually every game for the past 5 years at least.  You don't think that at some point Belichick might actually say to his coordinators after 80 regular season games and numerous playoff games that we should tone down the amount of passing if he wasn't on board with it?  Do you honestly believe he just let our offensive coordinators @#$% up for 5 straight years because he wants to let them call their own game when they are sabotaging our chance to win? This is a straw man.  First of all you haven't provided any evidence that BB doesn't think the defense needs to improve whereas I think you can make a pretty good argument based on the evidence we have that BB is okay with the amount the team passes in the aggregate.  In addition BB has direct control over the amount the team passes in the aggregate (again he can still let his coordinators call a game while still giving them some general parameters over how much he'd like to incorporate the run game if he isn't happy with the current philosophy) unless you think he just lets his offensive coordinators run amok with no accountability for 5 year periods. On the other hand the play of the defense depends on a lot of things he has very little to no direct control over ranging from the execution of the players, injuries, how draft picks turn out, players aging etc. (i.e life in the NFL). Posted by pcmIV[/QUOTE] I think by not using our RB's (in the passing game as well) enough in the regular season we end up falling back on Brady and the down field passing too much in the post season....when we play the best defense's. I know you agree we cannot be one dimensional against good defense's right? But we have been, and I say it is due to our OC's getting taken for other teams. You can say you think I'm blaming BB but I know what my opinion is. Did you know we threw 130 passes to 50 rushes in 3 straight losses to the number 1 pass rush ny giants? We were rarely behind and have averaged 17 ppg scored... Btw they were ranked near the bottom in run defense. What do you think of that pcm? Is that a talent issue, OC issue, BB issue, a GM issue, or just dumb luck. Where do you stand on this?
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]Pipe down, hotshot. That was a genuine reaction.  I have a right to my opinion.  The day Brady proves to me that he gets it in the postseason, is the day I praise his play. Until then, it's all rhetoric from him. All rhetoric.  This offense is so loaded, he can toss 3 Tds per game in his sleep. It doesn't solve the problem. It will be a concern until the divisional and wild card rounds. Deal with it.
    Posted by CliffordWasHere[/QUOTE]


    The problem is ALL your "genuine" reactions are this same as$baggery, and most people here are just plain WORN OUT hearing it in thread after thread.  JUST GIVE IT A REST, BOY.  WE ARE SICK OF YOUR OPINION.  YOU KEEP RESTATING IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.  EVEN IN THREADS ABOUT THE PRICE OF GAS, YOU WORK IT IN.  STOP.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.": Did you know we threw 130 passes to 50 rushes in 3 straight losses to the number 1 pass rush ny giants? We were rarely behind and have averaged 17 ppg scored... Btw they were ranked near the bottom in run defense. What do you think of that pcm? Is that a talent issue, OC issue, BB issue, a GM issue, or just dumb luck. Where do you stand on this?
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    I think it is easy to lump all three games together because they were against the same opponent, but I have different opinions about each game.

    2007 SB:  I think the offensive line just got dominated in this game in both run and pass blocking.  You seem to argue that the amount NE threw made it harder on the O-line, but they got run over when blocking for Maroney as well who often got completely stonewalled at the line of scrimmage.

    2011 regular season:  I was out of town for this game and could only follow it on my phone meaning I did not see the live footage.  It is hard for me to comment without having seen the game itself.  Perhaps you are right about this one.  I won't pretend to know.

    2011 SB:  This game is a textbook example to me of why it can be misleading to simply look at the number of runs and passes and assign causality.  There were two drives in this game that the Patriots were obligated to pass almost exclusively.  The drive before the end of the half where they were trying to score before time expired and the drive that ended the game as they were attempting a comeback.  Do you not agree that passing was necessary there?  Those two drives skewed the pass/run ratio extensively and yet I don't think you can make a good argument that passing was a bad idea in either of those situations.  I think there are a lot of reasons we lost that game (and many of them are not because of the defense), but they are in my view a little more nuanced than "we passed too much".  I can give you a more detailed collection of my thoughts that I am sure are scattered on various other threads, but this isn't really what my original post was about.

    Overall TC I think we agree on a lot of things (The play of TB, BB as a GM etc.) and I really don't want to just rehash the same arguments again, but you asked me a direct question so I thought I'd give an answer.  At the end of the day I was just pointing out that in my view the buck stops with the head coach when it comes to the most basic tenets of offensive strategy (run/pass ratio).  Perhaps you don't think so.  I don't happen to agree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    That's fair Pc,

    To me it doesn't only come down to amount of runs vs amount of passes. It is the identity or lack thereof in the offense. We have the best PA QB alive and we do not bother trying to establish a run? We were the best screen team in football during our dynasty years but it is now an after thought? We used to design plays that would allow Brady the option to "hit the open man" now we design plays for the same 3 guys running the same patterns.

    Meaning we no longer "take what the defense gives us" which Brady himself admits in this interview. Often times imo the defense is giving us the run, or the checkdown, but we are no longer a patient offense like we used to be. We are looking down field more then ever and it costs us on the biggest stages....the post season.

    I want more running yes, but I want screens,check downs,using the 3rd TE, the 4rth,5th and sometimes even the 6th receiving options, I miss the occasional glimpse of the "Fullback". I want variety in the play calling, and I want us to care about the field position we are leaving the young and at times suspect defense in.

    Basically a lot of us are just looking for complimentary football, and as great as our prolific passing attack has become, it does not compliment our young defense. It often leaves them literally gasping for air like it did in both SB's. I think it was 7 1st downs in the 2nd half for our offense in this past SB loss...7. That is not what I call protecting a lead, and protecting a defense.

    Anyway, some say it is lack of talent, which I do not agree with at all, i think our OC and the demands of our offense do not allow for proper development or opportunity of 4rth 5th pr 6th receiving options. Some say it due to the situation, I do not agree as we are usually playing with a lead. I say it is because we are now on our 4rth OC in the last 7 years, and I just don't think that is an absurd notion.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]It is the identity or lack thereof in the offense. We have the best PA QB alive and we do not bother trying to establish a run? We were the best screen team in football during our dynasty years but it is now an after thought? We used to design plays that would allow Brady the option to "hit the open man" now we design plays for the same 3 guys running the same patterns. Meaning we no longer "take what the defense gives us" which Brady himself admits in this interview.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    What is patently obvious from the first pre-season game with the heavy dose of I-Formation (which we haven't seen in years) and the 27 carries by our 1A backs (Ridely, Vereen, Bolden) is that Josh McDaniel's completely agrees with our overall sentiments.  For the first time since 08' we looked like the Patriot's of old. If there wasn't vindication in Brady's words in this interview, it came in the play calling on the field last night.

    Ground and pound, the run to set up the pass, the very tenets of the Ernhardt-Perkin's system are back!  Like it or not fantasy geeks, you'll get to watch some winning football now and remember what made us a dynasty in the first place.

    Some humble pie is on the menu, enjoy!
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]I agree with that, Wozzy.  I will say the RBs looked better in roles where they weren't subbed for. Hard to judge based on just preseason. I rememeber in 2010 vs NOs and in Atlanta, the Pats ran all over them and then O'brien started the season trying to appease Moss through Week 4 in Miami (before halftime). Honestly, if you look at Ridley and Bolden alone, each has potential to be a back you just don't take off the field on a drive.  Very important.  We'll see. I have a hard time believing BB and McDaniels don't see this. No one will ever buy that Woodhead or Vereen will ever be used to run. They'll play pass or fallback ready for a draw/set screen, so the predictiability will be easy there, so execution is a must when those two RBs are on the field. We'll see them dominate average or bad Ds, but it's the good Ds, where Vereen and Woodhead's use will be iffy. PS love your last comment, but the Brady Lovers will never admit it. They haven't, embarrassingly enough at this point, so they never will. They're like Hitler in his bunker pretending the RUssians aren't hundreds of yards away. lol
    Posted by CliffordWasHere[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure Vereen can't be used as an every down back, he is incredibly strong. But with Ridley averaging 5 yards a carry and the 3 of them averaging 4 yards a carry we have a great trio of backs to throw at people.

    All the talk and yammering here, the back and forth over the importance of a running threat was answered last night loud and clear.  Let the naysayer's yell and live in denial all they want, the proof is in the pudding.

    Deal with it...
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : What is patently obvious from the first pre-season game with the heavy dose of I-Formation (which we haven't seen in years) and the 27 carries by our 1A backs (Ridely, Vereen, Bolden) is that Josh McDaniel's completely agrees with our overall sentiments.  For the first time since 08' we looked like the Patriot's of old. If there wasn't vindication in Brady's words in this interview it came in the play calling on the field last night. Ground and pound, the run to set up the pass, the very tenets of the Ernhardt-Perkin's system are back!  Like it or not fantasy geeks, you'll get to watch some winning football now and remember what made us a dynasty in the first place. Some humble pie is on the menu, enjoy!
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    They were obviously trying to get the backs some reps in this first preseason game which is a good thing especially since the O-lines pass protection was horrific.
    D was pretty good which was a welcome sight. :-)
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : I'm not sure Vereen can't be used as an every down back, he is incredibly strong. But with Ridley averaging 5 yards a carry and the 3 of them averaging 4 yards a carry we have a great trio of backs to throw at people. All the talk and yammering here, the back and forth over the importance of a running threat was answered last night loud and clear.  Let the naysayer's yell and live in denial all they want, the proof is in the pudding. Deal with it...
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Lol,  Your tool is showing.  Deal with what?  The backs getting reps?
    What did you think of the low score and the 10 punts and the 5 or 6 three and outs?
    What about them only scoring once in one quarter.  3 qtrs. without scoring is fine with you?  Since when?
    It's practice, dude.  Let's see how the season plays out before you start dishing out the pie.
    The backs did look decent though, which can only help.  No complaints there.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]That's fair Pc, To me it doesn't only come down to amount of runs vs amount of passes. It is the identity or lack thereof in the offense. We have the best PA QB alive and we do not bother trying to establish a run? We were the best screen team in football during our dynasty years but it is now an after thought? We used to design plays that would allow Brady the option to "hit the open man" now we design plays for the same 3 guys running the same patterns. Meaning we no longer "take what the defense gives us" which Brady himself admits in this interview. Often times imo the defense is giving us the run, or the checkdown, but we are no longer a patient offense like we used to be. We are looking down field more then ever and it costs us on the biggest stages....the post season. I want more running yes, but I want screens,check downs,using the 3rd TE, the 4rth,5th and sometimes even the 6th receiving options, I miss the occasional glimpse of the "Fullback". I want variety in the play calling, and I want us to care about the field position we are leaving the young and at times suspect defense in. Basically a lot of us are just looking for complimentary football, and as great as our prolific passing attack has become, it does not compliment our young defense. It often leaves them literally gasping for air like it did in both SB's. I think it was 7 1st downs in the 2nd half for our offense in this past SB loss...7. That is not what I call protecting a lead, and protecting a defense. Anyway, some say it is lack of talent, which I do not agree with at all, i think our OC and the demands of our offense do not allow for proper development or opportunity of 4rth 5th pr 6th receiving options. Some say it due to the situation, I do not agree as we are usually playing with a lead. I say it is because we are now on our 4rth OC in the last 7 years, and I just don't think that is an absurd notion.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    8, 1st downs in the first half and 12 in the second.  Badly mistaken, sorry.
    And Brady did not say they weren't taking what the D was giving.  More like they needed to be able to.... Improvement would mean the backs were effective, in response to replacing BJGE's production.

    Funny how there can be 62000 different interpretations of one simple statement.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : 8, 1st downs in the first half and 12 in the second.  Badly mistaken, sorry. And Brady did not say they weren't taking what the D was giving.  More like they needed to be able to.... Improvement would mean the backs were effective, in response to replacing BJGE's production. Funny how there can be 62000 different interpretations of one simple statement.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Oh , oh sorry. With 27 minutes remaining in the 2nd half our offense had 7 1st downs. unfortunately 2 of those came in the remaining 57 seconds when we had to chuck it up in the air.

    If this is your offense's 2nd half production you usually don't win...

    15:00 3 03:40 NWE 21 8 79 Touchdown
    06:43 3 00:31 NWE 17 3 -2 Punt
    00:35 3 01:18 NWE 20 5 23 Intercepted Pass
    09:24 4 05:31 NWE 8 11 48 Punt
    00:57 4 00:57 NWE 20 8 29 End of Game

     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

     "Tom Brady was quick to point out to me that the Pats need a better four-minute offense, and need to take the run when the defense is playing the pass"

    he doesn't say we need a better runningback, he doesn't say we need to improve the running when the defense is playing the pass. He says we need to "take" the run when the defense is playing the pass.

    But that won't stop you now will it?
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : Here is the one flaw in your analysis: The reason why the 2 minute offense worked in and out of halftime? Limited to no subbing of the RB.  Woodhead was used before halftime with success, BJGE out of halftime with success. The fatal flaw was not turning JUST to BJGE on the second drive of the 2nd half in the SB.  That was where O'Brien lost it. Major fundamental in-game playcalling flaw. You also mentioned Maroney stonewalled in SB 42. Why? Because he subbed in and out, and the run was an afterthought, which means this tipped off why he was in there. That concept has not changed. Look even last night in this preseason game. We saw Ridley subbed for in with Woodhead, and looked what happened. What did the Saints D do? Collapse the pocket on all out pass rush making our inexperienced line look bad.   It's like clockwork. The O Line discussion is connected to predictability in playcalling, Brady's comfort level and how our RBs do. I am telling ya, don't sub the backs in and out on drives barring them needing a breather or for injury reasons. This is just preseason, so I am not going to judge yet as it appears like they want guys to get reps. But, if Ridley isn't the lead back for this team in 75% of our games, especially the games against good or great Ds (SF, Houston, Balt, etc) in our schedule, we will lose or barely eek out wins.  I am telling ya.  I'll take bets right now on this premise. Only McDaniels and Brady can get on the same page and make this change.  BB too, but really, it's the playcalling and McDaniels taking charge again. The buck does stop with the head coach, but DURING games is where the elite coordinators rise up. BB is a defensive coach, not an offensive one. BB didn't hover over Weis when he was here and only monitored McDaniels in 2005 before giving him the title in 2006 and turning him loose. BB works with the D in terms of coaching a lot more than the offense. We know this because of first hand accounts of people like Scarnecchia telling BB to pound sand when BB walks over.   You only hear of BB coaching up the D, not the O.  Let's not pretend BB is an offensive coach here. 
    Posted by CliffordWasHere[/QUOTE]

    This idea that subbing for backs is a bad idea is just absurd.  First of all, they did sub in Woodhead on several plays during the first drive of the second half, so Rusty's statement is just wrong.  Beyond that, subbing backs (and players in general) has been a normal part of every team's offensive approach since about 1975. 

    Please, let's not pretend Rusty is an offensive coach . . . 

     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : Lol,  Your tool is showing.  Deal with what?  The backs getting reps? What did you think of the low score and the 10 punts and the 5 or 6 three and outs? What about them only scoring once in one quarter.  3 qtrs. without scoring is fine with you?  Since when? It's practice, dude.  Let's see how the season plays out before you start dishing out the pie. The backs did look decent though, which can only help.  No complaints there.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    The backs getting reps was something we haven't seen in 4 years... yeah, deal with it, the finesse BS is over. The I-formation, the screen pass, something we haven't seen in years... bye O'Brien, you won't be missed.
     
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    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : Oh , oh sorry. With 27 minutes remaining in the 2nd half our offense had 7 1st downs. unfortunately 2 of those came in the remaining 57 seconds when we had to chuck it up in the air. If this is your offense's 2nd half production you usually don't win... 15:00 3 03:40 NWE 21 8 79 Touchdown 06:43 3 00:31 NWE 17 3 -2 Punt 00:35 3 01:18 NWE 20 5 23 Intercepted Pass 09:24 4 05:31 NWE 8 11 48 Punt 00:57 4 00:57 NWE 20 8 29 End of Game
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    1st and 10 at NE 21T.Brady pass deep left to C.Ochocinco ran ob at NE 42 for 21 yards.  
    1st and 10 at NE 42(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short middle to B.Green-Ellis to 50 for 8 yards (M.Boley; C.Blackburn).  
    2nd and 2 at 50B.Green-Ellis right end pushed ob at NYG 33 for 17 yards (K.Phillips).  
    1st and 10 at NYG 33(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 28 for 5 yards (D.Grant).  
    2nd and 5 at NYG 28(No Huddle) D.Woodhead left tackle to NYG 24 for 4 yards (O.Umenyiora; D.Grant).  
    3rd and 1 at NYG 24(Run formation) B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NYG 20 for 4 yards (K.Phillips).  
    1st and 10 at NYG 20(No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to W.Welker to NYG 12 for 8 yards (A.Rolle).  
    2nd and 2 at NYG 12(No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.916
     S.Gostkowski extra point is GOOD, Center-D.Aiken, Holder-Z.Mesko.917
     S.Gostkowski kicks 64 yards from NE 35 to NYG 1. J.Jernigan to NYG 35 for 34 yards (S.Gostkowski; K.Arrington
    1st and 10 at NE 20(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez (M.Boley).  
    2nd and 10 at NE 20(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to D.Branch pushed ob at NE 31 for 11 yards (D.Grant).  
    1st and 10 at NE 31(Shotgun) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NE 38 for 7 yards (R.Bernard).
    2nd and 3 at NE 38B.Green-Ellis left tackle to NE 43 for 5 yards (M.Boley).  
    1st and 10 at NE 43(No Huddle, Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep left intended for R.Gronkowski INTERCEPTED by C.Blackburn [J.Pierre-Paul] at NYG 8. C.Blackburn to NYG 8 for no gain (R.Gronkowski
    1st and 10 at NE 8(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to A.Hernandez [L.Joseph].  
    2nd and 10 at NE 8(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to W.Welker to NE 13 for 5 yards (J.Williams).  
    3rd and 5 at NE 13(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to D.Woodhead to NE 32 for 19 yards (D.Grant).  
    1st and 10 at NE 32B.Green-Ellis left end to NE 35 for 3 yards (J.Pierre-Paul). NYG-A.Rolle was injured during the play. His return is Probable.  
    2nd and 7 at NE 35(Shotgun) W.Welker left end to NE 46 for 11 yards (K.Phillips).  
    1st and 10 at NE 46D.Woodhead left tackle to NE 47 for 1 yard (J.Tuck).  
    2nd and 9 at NE 47(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short right to R.Gronkowski to NYG 47 for 6 yards (P.Amukamara).  
    3rd and 3 at NYG 47(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NYG 43 for 4 yards (M.Boley).  
    1st and 10 at NYG 43(Run formation) B.Green-Ellis up the middle to NYG 44 for -1 yards (C.Canty).  
    2nd and 11 at NYG 44(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep left to W.Welker.  
    3rd and 11 at NYG 44T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to D.Branch (C.Webster).  
    4th and 11 at NYG 44Z.Mesko punts 32 yards to NYG 12, Center-D.Aiken, fair catch by W.Blackmon
    1st and 10 at NE 20(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to D.Branch (K.Phillips).  
    2nd and 10 at NE 20(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short right to A.Hernandez [O.Umenyiora].  
    3rd and 10 at NE 20(Shotgun) T.Brady sacked at NE 14 for -6 yards (J.Tuck).  
     Timeout #3 by NE at 00:36.  
    4th and 16 at NE 14(Shotgun) T.Brady pass deep left to D.Branch pushed ob at NE 33 for 19 yards (C.Webster).  
    1st and 10 at NE 33(Shotgun) T.Brady pass short left to A.Hernandez to NE 44 for 11 yards (A.Rolle).  
    1st and 10 at NE 44T.Brady spiked the ball to stop the clock.  
    2nd and 10 at NE 44(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep right to A.Hernandez. PENALTY on NYG-J.Tuck, Defensive 12 On-field, 5 yards, enforced at NE 44 - No Play.  
    2nd and 5 at NE 49(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete short left to D.Branch.  
    3rd and 5 at NE 49(Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete deep middle to A.Hernandez (K.Phillips).  
     End of Game
     recount!   Oh and BTW, even if it were 7.  That would be 7 on 4 possessions with the last possession being limited to 57 seconds..  That's 2 per possession.  Don't look too bad if you look at it honestly.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    ^ Dude a change of possession does not count as the offense gaining a 1st down.

    Again, with 27 minutes of game clock remaining the pats had 7 1st downs. 2 on the last 57 second possession. If they could have sustained any of their 2nd, 3rd or 4rth possessions by getting 1st downs we could have held the ball longer and kept our defense and the Gints offense off the field.

    You recount, and don't count the 1st play of the drive as the offense gaining a 1st down.

    Only you would try and defend what the offense did in the 2nd half. Only you.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]^ Dude a change of possession does not count as the offense gaining a 1st down. Again, with 27 minutes of game clock remaining the pats had 7 1st downs. 2 on the last 57 second possession. If they could have sustained any of their 2nd, 3rd or 4rth possessions by getting 1st downs we could have held the ball longer and kept our defense and the Gints offense off the field. You recount, and don't count the 1st play of the drive as the offense gaining a 1st down. Only you would try and defend what the offense did in the 2nd half. Only you.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]

    Zero points in the 4th quarter was particularly impressive... but I've moved on. McDaniel's is bringing back smashmouth and screen passes, say goodbye to offensive inefficiency in the playoff's.

    I know the fantasy football crew won't attribute any success we have this year or an improved defense on the running game but anyone with half a clue about complimentary football will, McDaniel's will... that's enough for me. I'm giddy over the play selection last night. The execution was crud but the selection was right on.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.

    In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 5 Questions from Kirwan and his camp visit on Sunday. : The backs getting reps was something we haven't seen in 4 years... yeah, deal with it the finesse BS is over. The I formation, the screen pass, something we haven't seen in years... bye O'Brien, you won't be missed.
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Practice, practice, practice.
    There's obviously a need to improve the running situation but when the game is on the line and they need to score 2-3Td's from behind at the half.  They're going with the arm.  Hopefully the D doesn't allow them to be 3 td's behind at the half like the past couple of years or blow a 3 score lead.
    Don't think there going to win many games while running all night and scoring 7 points, Do you?
    It's practice!  Cannot be stressed enough.  The backs need practice!  That's the only way they are going to be effective when they are called on.
    It was nice to see the screens again.  BJGE was not effective there.
     

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