A question about Dungy

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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Careful Tas.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]So I was just reading some more on the whole Mike Vick story and how Arthur Blank and Tony Dungy would both be charictor wittnesses for Vick if need be to get him back into the league and it dawned on me, do any of you think good old Saint Dungy would be doing this for a white player? If a all star white QB was caught doing what Vick did and sent to jail would Dungy be all about saving his soul or whatvere the hell it is he thinks he is doing? I do not think he would, I think this is all about the first black head coach to win a super bowl trying to help one of teh biggest star black QBs in the game. And please for the love god try to understand that i am not a racist person and thats not why i am saying this i just truly dont buy into the Saint Dungy act. Everyone has a angle always even Dungy. I do not think that if a white QB of teh same super star caliber was to do what Vick did that he would lift a finger to help him. Does anyone agree with this? If not i am sure you will let me have it and I get that but seriously guys its just something that creeped into my head while reading all these "saint dungy helping vick" storys that make me sick and i wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. Am I way off or do you think i have something? What say you?
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]
    I have got to disagree with you, He is an equal opportunity hypocrite. He would help any race QB  as long as he is not gay.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]So I was just reading some more on the whole Mike Vick story and how Arthur Blank and Tony Dungy would both be charictor wittnesses for Vick if need be to get him back into the league and it dawned on me, do any of you think good old Saint Dungy would be doing this for a white player? If a all star white QB was caught doing what Vick did and sent to jail would Dungy be all about saving his soul or whatvere the hell it is he thinks he is doing? I do not think he would, I think this is all about the first black head coach to win a super bowl trying to help one of teh biggest star black QBs in the game. And please for the love god try to understand that i am not a racist person and thats not why i am saying this i just truly dont buy into the Saint Dungy act. Everyone has a angle always even Dungy. I do not think that if a white QB of teh same super star caliber was to do what Vick did that he would lift a finger to help him. Does anyone agree with this? If not i am sure you will let me have it and I get that but seriously guys its just something that creeped into my head while reading all these "saint dungy helping vick" storys that make me sick and i wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. Am I way off or do you think i have something? What say you?
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    MVP - I don't think this is about race. I just think Dungy is an ignorant freakin moron. Anyone that would vouch for Vick's supposed character has to be, right?
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    flasox, good point about how he would help anyone except gays which is just another reason to call him and people like him hypocrites. God loves all people, unless you are gay in which case you will burn in hell right Dungy?

    I dissagree though about Vick, it might be directly about race it might be a subconcisous (spelt wrong i know) type deal where he does nto even realize it i dont know all i am saying is I do not think for two seconds that Dungy would be ddoing this for a white player. If Jake Plummer was thrown in jail for doing this and wanted to come back and play do you really see Dungy sticking his neck out for him? I dont. I just dont think he would do the same for a white QB thats all.

    And why should I be careful underdogg? I am not saying that he is doing this for a fact i am saying that from where i sit, reading the constint "saint dungy helping poor old Vick" storys it seems to me that he wouldnt be doing this for a player that was not black. Whether it be white or spanish or Asian or whatever i dont think he would be doing this. I THINK he is doing it for 1 because it gets his face on the news and makes him look even more heavenly and 2 because he is dealing with a young black man. If this was a white guy i just dont think he would be visiting him in jail and going on national TV and saying how he deserves another chance i just dont see it. You dont have to agree with me, it would be nice if you could some how change my mind but it would have to be one hell of an debate because i just dont think he would do this for anyone else. Vick is high profile and Dungy is just trying to make himself even more the saint that they make him out to be.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    You'll never get anyone (besides me) to say it out loud -- so to speak -- in this disturbing pc age, but you are absolutely right about this, killa. Vick might have represented exactly what the league was hoping to project going forward (god, I hate that) --  a young, versatile (black) leader of men, but turned out to be a walking, talking advertisement for everything that is wrong with a system that passes marginally intelligent, poorly educated athletes through the system so they can entertain us. Putting a new face on Vick would satisfy Dungy's god complex while at the same time pretending to obliterate a stereotype that a lot of people are working very hard to convince you does not exist.

    Vick is a misguided social deviant who at least has the excuse of lacking a true understanding of his inadequacies because he's been coddled ever since he picked up a ball.

    I find Dungy beneath contempt for using Vick's situation as another vehicle for his own endless self-aggrandizment (and whatever political agenda he's undoubtedly masking).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Thank god at least one person see's where i am coming from. Dungy just wants to further his career as a White House aide or whatever title he was given or will be given. He is human so he has an angle its that simple. No matter how much I think about it I just dont think Dungy would do the same thing for a white QB in this situation.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Sox - you got some kind information that Dungy is unwilling to help homosexuals?  If so, could you provide it?

    lady - how is dungy ignorant?

    Tas - you are entitled to your opinion, certainly.  I just need to understand why you think Dungy is a racist (I couldn't help reading into it that way)?  

    I think of Dungy is one of many successful black men who are most intent on helping other black men.  But that does not make him Al Sharpton.  And that is not to say that they would not help an individual of another race, but there are more than enough people in every race needing help that focusing only on those of a specific race (particularly a minority) should not automatically be construed as even mildly racist.  Given the significant plight of black men in america, whether externally or internally caused, and given that dungy is black, successful, evangilistic and charitable his involvement with Vick does not surprise me.  does it surprise you?

    All - I do agree that Dungy likely chose not shy away from the newsiness of his Vick visit, and I understand that people who already dislike him will use this to fuel the fire of your hate.  But unlike Charles Barkley, I think Dungy does see himself as a role model and what he did with Vick is exactly the type of thing he has chosen to do post football. 

    You may not like it, but I am sure that there are many within the black community that are cheering it and see dungy as very positive influence that they hope continues to be very public with his helpful efforts.   He is someone other than an athlete or an entertainer that has fame and a voice. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Sox - you got some kind information that Dungy is unwilling to help homosexuals?  If so, could you provide it?

    Is Dungy or is he not a church going cathlic? if so he would not help a gay person because thats not how those people do. You can play games all you want but he is the one who put his faith on the record and so its fair to say he wouldnt help gays because of his faith. No proof needed just history of his faith.

    lady - how is dungy ignorant?

    see the example above about his dislike for gays due to his faith, that in itself makes him ignorant.

    Tas - you are entitled to your opinion, certainly.  I just need to understand why you think Dungy is a racist (I couldn't help reading into it that way)?  

    I didnt call him a racist i just pointed out that he would not be doing the same thing for a white player, if that makes him a racist to you then ok.

    I think of Dungy is one of many successful black men who are most intent on helping other black men. (way to further my point, he is intent on helping other black men not helping other men) But that does not make him Al Sharpton.  And that is not to say that they would not help an individual of another race, but there are more than enough people in every race needing help that focusing only on those of a specific race (particularly a minority) should not automatically be construed as even mildly racist.(why not? if a white man helped strictly white people he would be called a racist in a new york minute)  Given the significant plight of black men in america,(give me a effing break, that sh*t went out teh window the moment a black man was elected president of the USA. How about given the plight of all young men in america instead of just the black community. no one has it easy these days so you canleave that "plight of teh balck man" sh*t at the door) whether externally or internally caused, and given that dungy is black, successful, evangilistic and charitable his involvement with Vick does not surprise me.  does it surprise you? (does nto surprize me one bit that Dungy would take this oppertunity to get his face on TV and further his "good name" as a leader in the cathlic community)

    All - I do agree that Dungy likely chose not shy away from the newsiness of his Vick visit,(Part of the reason he did it was because of the newsiness of the situation, he would not have done this if Vick was not such a public figure because there would be nothing in it for him) and I understand that people who already dislike him will use this to fuel the fire of your hate.  But unlike Charles Barkley, I think Dungy does see himself as a role model and what he did with Vick is exactly the type of thing he has chosen to do post football. 

    You may not like it, but I am sure that there are many within the black community that are cheering it and see dungy as very positive influence that they hope continues to be very public with his helpful efforts. (with his helpful efforts towards the black community not the community in general which just furthers my point that he would not do the same for a white player)  He is someone other than an athlete or an entertainer that has fame and a voice. 


    Underdogg i have no idea why you dont agree with me considering most of your argument was proving my point for me. You pretty much just agreed with me that he wouldnt do the same for a white player in this situation.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    I dont want you to think  an ignoring you or anything when you respond underdogg because this is a very hot topic that i look forward to debating with you lol but i have a 4 day weekend starting tonight andi am heading home. I cant useally post from home cause my comp is dumb but i will check in as i think this is a very good thread and would love to read your response. have a good weekend everyone.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Dungy should concentrate his "deep concerns for humanity" on his own family.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Tas - I don't agree because you didn't take my comments in context.  You took them sentence by sentence.   
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]Tas - I don't agree because you didn't take my comments in context.  You took them sentence by sentence.   
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    well then you need to construct your sentences so that they make a coherent thought.

    Let's also remember that this is also about gambling (including crossing state lines) which is the ultimate NFL sin.  Did Dungy go help Jordan? How about Barkley.  Did he rescue Karras and Hornung?

    He is the ultimate evangelical hypocrite

    But he did give us "one and Dungy".  For that I do thank him
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    That dirty Dungy!  How dare he help black people.  I mean, they've got it so good.  First they get a free boat ride to America, and now they're sticking up for one another.  Why can't they be more like white people and stab each other in the back?
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]So I was just reading some more on the whole Mike Vick story and how Arthur Blank and Tony Dungy would both be charictor wittnesses for Vick if need be to get him back into the league and it dawned on me, do any of you think good old Saint Dungy would be doing this for a white player? [/QUOTE]
     
    Yes, if his name was Peyton Manning.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Yes, if his name was Peyton Manning.


    If it were Mr. Wonderful in Vicks place he wouldn't need Dungy's help. Peyton would simply say it was one of his OL or defensive teammates who did it!!! Unless he wanted to call Vinatieri his "idiot kicker"!!!

    But seriously, I understand what Taz is trying to ask. And even if it were true, I still wouldn't say that made him a racist. And while I understand him standing by "his own", I think maybe he should expand it. If he were to join with Vick and try to educate the new generation of kids about the issue that would be a good thing. His actions suggest the black community accepts this due to ignorance or poverty. Then maybe they should try and remedy the underlying problem at the root. To me, that would be more a community service than simply getting Vick reinstated. I'm sure they could get a concerted effort with the ASPCA and go to some of these places where this sort of behavior is considered acceptable. Educate the kids as to why it's cruel, and show them the things dogs do for the good of the community (i.e. seeing eye dogs, police dogs, bomb sniffing dogs, etc.). In this Vick could possibly earn more widespread support, and show he has truly been rehabilitated. And if (as some here think) Dungy is interested in "grabbing headlines", it would be a great one for him.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]well then you need to construct your sentences so that they make a coherent thought. Let's also remember that this is also about gambling (including crossing state lines) which is the ultimate NFL sin.  Did Dungy go help Jordan? How about Barkley.  Did he rescue Karras and Hornung? He is the ultimate evangelical hypocrite But he did give us "one and Dungy".  For that I do thank him
    Posted by provpats[/QUOTE]

    Thank you for sharing your moronic perspective. According to you, if I give to the Leukemia Society but not the MS Society, I am not charitable.  Be certain I will wait impatiently for your response. 
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]Is Dungy or is he not a church going cathlic? if so he would not help a gay person because thats not how those people do. You can play games all you want but he is the one who put his faith on the record and so its fair to say he wouldnt help gays because of his faith. No proof needed just history of his faith.   
    Posted by MVPkilla[/QUOTE]

    I'm one of "those people" as you put it. As a church going Catholic I resent your off base statement that I (or any practicing Catholic) wouldn't help a gay person because that's not what those people do. If you are making a reference to the Catholic Church's archaic and despicable stance on homosexuality/lesbianism involvement in the church then I would remind you that one doesn't have to subscribe to all the doctrine to be a member of any group. Nowhere in the churches teaching have I ever hear about helping your fellow man or woman unless they are gay.
    I'd be careful making such broad based and offensive statements. It makes you sound very ignorant.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Bub and all - I am dumbfounded by your implied assumption that the only charitable thing that Tony Dungy has ever done is try to help Mike Vick,  that his purpose for visiting Vick really wasnt charitable but was really only to help get Vick reinstated, that Dungy would never provide support for anyone other than a black man, and that Dungy is only a headline grabber.  

    Here is a list of some of Dungy's charitable and civic work.   

    * In August 2007, President George W. Bush appointed Dungy a member of the President's Council on Service and Civic Participation.
    * In March 2009 President Barack Obama invited Dungy to join the Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships
    * worked as a public speaker for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and Athletes in Action
    * He began a mentoring program for young people called Mentors for Life
    * Big Brothers/Big Sisters
    * Boys and Girls Club
    * the Prison Crusade Ministry,
    * foster parenting organizations
    Family First
    * Basket of Hope program which aids patients at the Riley Hospital for Children
    * considered leaving football for the prison ministry

    I really don't think Dungy cares if Vick gets reinstated unless he thinks that Vick can provide a positive, rehabilitated example of how an individual can change.  I don't think the purpose of his visit to Vick had anything to do with reinstatement. 
    And while many of you consider Dungy a headline seeker, all you need to do is ask yourself how many times you've seen Dungy involved with the charities above.  Likely the answer is none.  The Vick thing is only a headline grabber because Vick is a headline grabber.  Adam Schein, discussing the problem of Vick yesterday, said that while the colts were having a great run and the pats and Brady were in the midst of breaking all of the offensive records early in 07, neither of these stories got attention because all anyone talked about was Michael Vick.  Dungy is now out of the Vick picture, but they are still talking about Vick.  Why?, because it is news. 

    So, if you want to hate Dungy, that is your personal choice.  But I don't think him meeting with Michael Vick rises to even an irrational example why you hate him. 

    Oh and Bub - while I am sure Manning would take back if he could his comments about his line, given Vanderjagt's initial statement, I think Manning would stand by his response (idiot kicker) until he kicked the bucket, and I applaud manning's response. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ROWDYRODRUST. Show ROWDYRODRUST's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Incidently, Coach Dungy is an Evangelical Christian, not a Catholic. To the best of my knowledge Protestants are even more tolerant when it comes to issues of sexual orientation so you'd be off there as well.
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    [QUOTE]I'm one of "those people" as you put it. As a church going Catholic I resent your off base statement that I (or any practicing Catholic) wouldn't help a gay person because that's not what those people do. If you are making a reference to the Catholic Church's archaic and despicable stance on homosexuality/lesbianism involvement in the church then I would remind you that one doesn't have to subscribe to all the doctrine to be a member of any group. Nowhere in the churches teaching have I ever hear about helping your fellow man or woman unless they are gay. I'd be careful making such broad based and offensive statements. It makes you sound very ignorant.
    Posted by ROWDYRODRUST[/QUOTE]

    Thank you Rowdy 

    Too many people have labelled those who believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman as haters of gays because this is the position that the gay community has so effectively made public.  

    Gay haters may not want gays to be allowed to be married BUT that does not mean that those that believe marriage is between a man and a women hate gays and are unwilling to help them.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    I think we can all reasonably agree that Mike VanderJagt is an idiot.
    I'll give Manning a pass on that one.

    As for Dungy, what I heard him say (I believe it was to Dan Patrick, but I may be mistaken about that) was that he wanted to try to help Vick understand the impact of his celebrity and that it would be critical for him to at least try to change people's perception of him before he could even think of resuming his career. How that discussion went (or didn't go) is anybody's guess and while I suppose it's possible that Dungy has no ulterior motive beyond Christina charity (that's a joke from another thread), I certainly wouldn't be surprised if there were also some political motivation for Dungy here. Maybe I'm just being cynical here, but I've also heard it said that the ability to understand nuance is called cynicism by those who do not possess it.

    So there's that.
    Cool
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Sports.....Racial Biases.....Religion.....Politics

    Mix them all together and you get a nuclear bomb. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Mike - nothing wrong with your cynicism and, in fact, there may be some truth in there. 

    But who really cares?  Every charitable donation results in a tax break opportunity if you choose to take it.  If you do, does that make the giving less important to those that have received the donation? 

    Were all human here and everyone has flaws, Dungy included.  Some people seek the spotlight, while others are pushed into it due to their perceived value.  I am apt to believe Dungy falls into the latter.  Dungy was asked to serve by our two most recent Presidents.  Different parties, different perspectives, yet Dungy was sought by both.   

    Hate him if you like.  Seek the flaws instead of the positives.  But I prefer to see him and his work as providing significantly more good than bad.  

    Let me add this for all - Some here want to believe that Dungy only wants to help Blacks, so they might liken him to an Al Sharpton figure.  Here is where they differ in my mind.  Al Sharpton basically sees life as a zero sum game.  In order for his views to gain, someone else must lose.  Dungy on the other hand is only trying to give help.  Raise all boats. 
     
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    Re: A question about Dungy

    Oh and Bub - while I am sure Manning would take back if he could his comments about his line, given Vanderjagt's initial statement, I think Manning would stand by his response (idiot kicker) until he kicked the bucket, and I applaud manning's response. 


    Actually, that part of the post was meant as a "joke". I do agree with you about Vanderjaght, though! The guy may have been a good player, but he was a moron who should have kept his mouth shut. And I was not accusing Dungy of being only "out for the headlines". That was posted by others. I merely stated that if he did do as I suggested that he would get headlines, also. The post by prairiemike quotes an interview which states Dungy's intentions were in line with my thoughts. If so I applaud him for this. Maybe Vick cannot change the past, but if he could have an impact on future generations it would be a good thing. Actually, the only thing I was "anti-Dungy" about was when he was the coach of the opposition. I don't doubt his intentions, nor compare him to people like Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, who I do consider to be "racist". But I understand the point Taz was making in the original post. At the least I can see how some would view it that way. We'll see how it all turns out. I'd love to see those two try and address this problem. It's one thing to be sorry for your indisgressions, but to take positive action to prevent it from reoccurring is taking it to a higher level. Should this be the path Vick takes it would go a huge way toward restoring his reputation.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: A question about Dungy

    Points taken Bub. 

    Many comments have been made that Vick was a decent guy who was just too loyal to give up his past.  Even if this is only half true, I think he could change.  That said, the negative influences will always be around and it appears they exist right there in his family.  

    Remember how Marcus Vick was supposed to be better than Mike and then he demonstrated what a poor human he was.   
     

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