A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's both offense and defense that have not been producing in the 4th qtr these past 3 games. 38-6 or whatever it is says it all. They have probably been the worst in the NFL during this 4th qtr stretch. I think anyone would agree with that, every publication I've read say the same thing too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, we get the 4th quarter thing. And we know, or should know, Brady has been sacked in late crucial drives in all 3 losses and we all cringed at the stupidity of Lloyd's stupid penalty in the last one.

     

    But the thing is, the defense has been staked to leads they just cannot hold. That's the bigger problem than if the offense scores their points in the 1st or 4th quarter. If we shifted half their league leading scoring from the first to the 4th quarter it would be the same thing.

    [/QUOTE]

    38-6 says it all. They can't score and they can't stop anyone. I expect that will change though. Both sides will get it together IMO.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's both offense and defense that have not been producing in the 4th qtr these past 3 games. 38-6 or whatever it is says it all. They have probably been the worst in the NFL during this 4th qtr stretch. I think anyone would agree with that, every publication I've read say the same thing too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, we get the 4th quarter thing. And we know, or should know, Brady has been sacked in late crucial drives in all 3 losses and we all cringed at the stupidity of Lloyd's stupid penalty in the last one.

     

    But the thing is, the defense has been staked to leads they just cannot hold. That's the bigger problem than if the offense scores their points in the 1st or 4th quarter. If we shifted half their league leading scoring from the first to the 4th quarter it would be the same thing.

    [/QUOTE]

    38-6 says it all. They can't score and they can't stop anyone. I expect that will change though. Both sides will get it together IMO.

    [/QUOTE]


    They can't score? They have scored more than anybody. Oh, you mean WHEN? I get it.

    Did you ever consider if they scored as they have, and scored well in the 4th quarter too, they would not only be scoring the most, but would leave everybody else in the dust. What do you expect, they will average 40 points a game?

     

    How many of the points they have scored in the other 3 quarters are you willing to give back and move to the 4th? The total ends up the same.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    The whole idea of this thread is just wrong.

    The offense in NE has produced the least turnovers, most yards, most points, has contributed to the 7th best TOP (TOP is also a defensive stat). For those "rush" fanatics, this comes with being #1 overall in rushing attempts per game. 

    So again, another top 3 offense, doesn't matter how they do it. This offense is great every season.

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    The defense is anemic.

    Rushing more has done nothing to help this defense. The fault lies with the talent, lack thereof, on defense. 

    As I've said a million times. The defining difference between this team, and those SB winners is not Weiss, rushing, Brady changing, anything like that. It's that there is no Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest, Law, Harrison, et al. 

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes, especially on days when their own offense is not playing its best. Otherwise, get ready for another exit. You *will not* run the playoffs dropping 40 points on the elite teams of the NFL four games in a row. One, two or three of those games will require your defense to hold a team to something like 12 or 17 points, and make due with 17-20 points from the offense. 

    That is how NE won it's championships before, and how every superbowl team since then has won it's championships. You need a defense that can outright win a game or two on its own. 

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The whole idea of this thread is just wrong.

    The offense in NE has produced the least turnovers, most yards, most points, has contributed to the 7th best TOP (TOP is also a defensive stat). For those "rush" fanatics, this comes with being #1 overall in rushing attempts per game. 

    So again, another top 3 offense, doesn't matter how they do it. This offense is great every season.

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    The defense is anemic.

    Rushing more has done nothing to help this defense. The fault lies with the talent, lack thereof, on defense. 

    As I've said a million times. The defining difference between this team, and those SB winners is not Weiss, rushing, Brady changing, anything like that. It's that there is no Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest, Law, Harrison, et al. 

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes, especially on days when their own offense is not playing its best. Otherwise, get ready for another exit. You *will not* run the playoffs dropping 40 points on the elite teams of the NFL four games in a row. One, two or three of those games will require your defense to hold a team to something like 12 or 17 points, and make due with 17-20 points from the offense. 

    That is how NE won it's championships before, and how every superbowl team since then has won it's championships. You need a defense that can outright win a game or two on its own. 

    [/QUOTE]

    How many of those games were won on a late game drive?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If they could chew up clock that would be one thing but they've had 1 drive of more then 4mins in the 4th the last 3 games. They aren't scoring and they aren't eating clock.

    It's both the D's and O's fault for not being able to play 60mins on both sides of the ball which to me points to something changing, mainly the O running more predictable and low % plays and the D playing a prevent instead of attacking

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If they could chew up clock that would be one thing but they've had 1 drive of more then 4mins in the 4th the last 3 games. They aren't scoring and they aren't eating clock.

    It's both the D's and O's fault for not being able to play 60mins on both sides of the ball which to me points to something changing, mainly the O running more predictable and low % plays and the D playing a prevent instead of attacking

    [/QUOTE]


    he's been hanging asround babe too much and picking up his habit of rattling off stats but failing to look beyond what he needs to win in his fantasy league. Fantasy football doesn't look at things like running the clock down in the forth quarter.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsEng's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If they could chew up clock that would be one thing but they've had 1 drive of more then 4mins in the 4th the last 3 games. They aren't scoring and they aren't eating clock.

    It's both the D's and O's fault for not being able to play 60mins on both sides of the ball which to me points to something changing, mainly the O running more predictable and low % plays and the D playing a prevent instead of attacking

    [/QUOTE]


    he's been hanging asround babe too much and picking up his habit of rattling off stats but failing to look beyond what he needs to win in his fantasy league. Fantasy football doesn't look at things like running the clock down in the forth quarter.

    [/QUOTE]


    Z is right though, if the O was running down the clock then obviously their point total would also be reduced. I'm just not sure that he knows that the O hasn't been able to chew clock when they want to either. I'd take one or the other, either chew the clock or continue to put up points but the O is doing nether right now. I think that might have to do with both Gronk and Hern being dinged up and not having that short package formation to use late in game but they still need to find a way to shorten their game and just grind out 1st downs consistently

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The whole idea of this thread is just wrong.

    The offense in NE has produced the least turnovers, most yards, most points, has contributed to the 7th best TOP (TOP is also a defensive stat). For those "rush" fanatics, this comes with being #1 overall in rushing attempts per game. 

    So again, another top 3 offense, doesn't matter how they do it. This offense is great every season.

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    The defense is anemic.

    Rushing more has done nothing to help this defense. The fault lies with the talent, lack thereof, on defense. 

    As I've said a million times. The defining difference between this team, and those SB winners is not Weiss, rushing, Brady changing, anything like that. It's that there is no Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest, Law, Harrison, et al. 

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes, especially on days when their own offense is not playing its best. Otherwise, get ready for another exit. You *will not* run the playoffs dropping 40 points on the elite teams of the NFL four games in a row. One, two or three of those games will require your defense to hold a team to something like 12 or 17 points, and make due with 17-20 points from the offense. 

    That is how NE won it's championships before, and how every superbowl team since then has won it's championships. You need a defense that can outright win a game or two on its own. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Of course you are right. This defense is posting a 99 DPR. The 2003 defense had a 56. Basically the pass defense is so bad they make every opposing QB into a top 5 elite. But some will tell you those are fantasy stats. LOL

     

    The defense stinks and can't hold 10 point 4th quarter leads with another FG thrown in to boot. It is simply astonishing anybody can even try to defend a defense like that.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to sporter81's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's both offense and defense that have not been producing in the 4th qtr these past 3 games. 38-6 or whatever it is says it all. They have probably been the worst in the NFL during this 4th qtr stretch. I think anyone would agree with that, every publication I've read say the same thing too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, we get the 4th quarter thing. And we know, or should know, Brady has been sacked in late crucial drives in all 3 losses and we all cringed at the stupidity of Lloyd's stupid penalty in the last one.

     

    But the thing is, the defense has been staked to leads they just cannot hold. That's the bigger problem than if the offense scores their points in the 1st or 4th quarter. If we shifted half their league leading scoring from the first to the 4th quarter it would be the same thing.

    [/QUOTE]

    38-6 says it all. They can't score and they can't stop anyone. I expect that will change though. Both sides will get it together IMO.

    [/QUOTE]


    It doesn't say quite all of it. It doesn't say the D was staked to a 10 point lead going into the 4th and had another 3 points chipped in and they still blew the lead.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    It's basically the same theme as last year, except the offense isn't covering up as well for the defense's shortcomings, so far anyway.  They could have a much different record but for a few plays, really they could easily be undefeated. But regardless they'd still have the same deficiencies. 

    Bottom line: It doesn't really matter what they looked like the last 7 games.  But they very likely need to improve by the end of the year (and do enough to get into the playoffs, obviously)

    They were 31st last year defensively and they came within a dropped pass/overthrow (depending on your POV) of winning the championship.

    You don't need a great defense to make it to, or win the Super Bowl. You don't need a world class offense or dominating running game either. You need to be just good enough in the RS to make the playoffs, and then you need to get hot (some luck helps as well). Virtually every SB winner in recent years followed that path:

    Colts in '06 were abysmal defensively, historically bad against the run. But they peaked at the right time, became great against the run in the playoffs, squeaked by the Pats in the AFCCG and beat an inept Bears team (Rex Grossman, really?) in the SB.

    Giants in '07, well we know that story. They are a perfect example of this rule.

    Pittsburgh in '08 is an exception.  They were strong all year with a great defense. Arizona would have been a perfect example of this rule, had they managed to win that SB which was very close. They were 9-7 with a very good passing offense and a terrible defense, but they got hot in the playoffs.

    New Orleans in '09 was hot all year and stayed hot, but their defense was atrocious.

    Green Bay in '10 is a fine example.  Made the playoffs as a Wild Card on the last day in large part because of a bad call in a game between Detroit and Tampa Bay.  Then they got hot.

    Giants last year, made it to the playoffs by default at 9-7, only because the rest of their division was awful. They were basically the same as '08 Arizona, terrible defensively with a good passing game. They just peaked at the right time.

       

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    So? New England didn't conjure a single postseason 4 minute 4th Q drive in 2001. Only one in 2003. And only one in 2004. Four minute plus drives are rare when you are trying to kill clock because the other team knows what you are doing, and you sometimes sacrifice the play that might get the most yards (a pass) for the play that will guarantee the clock keeps moving (a run). 

    It's obvious this subtlety is sort of lost on people here, but what's new on B.com.  

    They won three games with a last second FG in that span. 

    Pretty please don't talk about what I don't know, when we are *seriously* (still?!?!?!?!?) having a conversation about the offensive shortcomings of the New England Patriots "holding back" their defense.

    The only fantasy football going on here is the collective fantasy that this defense New England has put together is anything but absolutely terrible. 

    Stop teams from scoring. Period.

    If they didn't play opposite this offense they would be last in the league in every category. 

    Finally, the difference between this team, and those teams that won superbowls is not: how often they run it, who runs it, when they run it, how long they hold the ball in the 4th quarter, when they score their points, etc, etc, etc. In EVERY SINGLE FACET this offense is superior to those they fielded then. Every aspect is better. 

    The defense is miles and miles and miles and miles and miles worse. 

    New England won't be a serious contender until that is fixed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's basically the same theme as last year, except the offense isn't covering up as well for the defense's shortcomings, so far anyway.  They could have a much different record but for a few plays, really they could easily be undefeated. But regardless they'd still have the same deficiencies. 

    Bottom line: It doesn't really matter what they looked like the last 7 games.  But they very likely need to improve by the end of the year (and do enough to get into the playoffs, obviously)

    They were 31st last year defensively and they came within a dropped pass/overthrow (depending on your POV) of winning the championship.

    You don't need a great defense to make it to, or win the Super Bowl. You don't need a world class offense or dominating running game either. You need to be just good enough in the RS to make the playoffs, and then you need to get hot (some luck helps as well). Virtually every SB winner in recent years followed that path:

    Colts in '06 were abysmal defensively, historically bad against the run. But they peaked at the right time, became great against the run in the playoffs, squeaked by the Pats in the AFCCG and beat an inept Bears team (Rex Grossman, really?) in the SB.

    Giants in '07, well we know that story. They are a perfect example of this rule.

    Pittsburgh in '08 is an exception.  They were strong all year with a great defense. Arizona would have been a perfect example of this rule, had they managed to win that SB which was very close. They were 9-7 with a very good passing offense and a terrible defense, but they got hot in the playoffs.

    New Orleans in '09 was hot all year and stayed hot, but their defense was atrocious.

    Green Bay in '10 is a fine example.  Made the playoffs as a Wild Card on the last day in large part because of a bad call in a game between Detroit and Tampa Bay.  Then they got hot.

    Giants last year, made it to the playoffs by default at 9-7, only because the rest of their division was awful. They were basically the same as '08 Arizona, terrible defensively with a good passing game. They just peaked at the right time.

       

    [/QUOTE]

    This, this is very true. Momentum is a huge key. However, you also cannot have one part of your team (even special teams) be so bad that it makes it impossible to get 'hot.' Getting hot is about synergy, meaning that when one aspect isn't working another can pick up the slack. This defense can never pick up the slack. Never. 

    New England is 3-13 in the last four seasons (counting the playoffs) when they score less than 23 points. That is an alarming stat.

    If the offense doesn't score a bunch of points, and by a  bunch I mean a BUNCH because they've also lost several games scoring more than 30, then they are pretty much done for. 

    They've played 60 games in that span. Their offense has been top 3 in each of those seasons. They've scored less than 23 -16 times. 

    So 75% of the time their offense is giving them a good score. The remaining 25% are most of the losses. Now think. If they had a defense that could pick up, maybe, 40% of the games where the offense doesn't get 23 points, they would have 3-4 more wins in that time span. Who knows ... those could have been the elusive losses that put them out of the playoffs. 

    Facts:

    1.) No offense, no matter how good is perfect 100% of the time. It's a game. People aren't machines. 

    2.) Their defense is not good enough to carry them in a tight game.

    Stop blaming the offense on the rare occaisons it doesn't play perfectly when this defense basically stinks every single week it hits the field.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So? New England didn't conjure a single postseason 4 minute 4th Q drive in 2001. Only one in 2003. And only one in 2004. Four minute plus drives are rare when you are trying to kill clock because the other team knows what you are doing, and you sometimes sacrifice the play that might get the most yards (a pass) for the play that will guarantee the clock keeps moving (a run). 

    It's obvious this subtlety is sort of lost on people here, but what's new on B.com.  

    They won three games with a last second FG in that span. 

    Pretty please don't talk about what I don't know, when we are *seriously* (still?!?!?!?!?) having a conversation about the offensive shortcomings of the New England Patriots "holding back" their defense.

    The only fantasy football going on here is the collective fantasy that this defense New England has put together is anything but absolutely terrible. 

    Stop teams from scoring. Period.

    If they didn't play opposite this offense they would be last in the league in every category. 

    Finally, the difference between this team, and those teams that won superbowls is not: how often they run it, who runs it, when they run it, how long they hold the ball in the 4th quarter, when they score their points, etc, etc, etc. In EVERY SINGLE FACET this offense is superior to those they fielded then. Every aspect is better. 

    The defense is miles and miles and miles and miles and miles worse. 

    New England won't be a serious contender until that is fixed.

    [/QUOTE]


    Forget it, the doops will never learn.  They hate stats because they obviously paint a different picture than their distorted perceptions. NO team, not even the #1, O scores in every quarter!

    They haven't a clue on how OFF BASE they are but are sticking too it.

    Here's some interesting stats:  Though I don't know why I bother.

    The Pats 0 ranks 10th in 4th quarter scoring to date.  That is far from their reality.

    They so far are averaging 7.9 points in the 4th.  Last year they averaged 8.0 points in the 4th.

    1st qtr they rank 2nd, 2nd qtr they rank 13th (Their worst qtr), 3rd they rank 3rd,

    On the other deformed hand, the D ranks as follows In points allowed:

    1st qtr. 13th, 2nd qtr. 10th, 3rd qtr. 20th, and 4th. 27th .

    In the 4th qtr. they are giving up 8.7 points/qtr.  Last year they gave up 6.7 points in the 4ths.

    That's 2 more points per quarter than last years 31st ranked D.

    They are also on the field 4 minutes LESS  p/g than last years D.  Boohoo they're tired from the O not scoring.  Rubbish!

    This D truly would be last in every single catagory imaginable WITH OUT the strength of the O.

    Take that to the bank and quit blaming the offense that has been carrying the D for 3+ years .

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So? New England didn't conjure a single postseason 4 minute 4th Q drive in 2001. Only one in 2003. And only one in 2004. Four minute plus drives are rare when you are trying to kill clock because the other team knows what you are doing, and you sometimes sacrifice the play that might get the most yards (a pass) for the play that will guarantee the clock keeps moving (a run). 

    It's obvious this subtlety is sort of lost on people here, but what's new on B.com.  

    They won three games with a last second FG in that span. 

    Pretty please don't talk about what I don't know, when we are *seriously* (still?!?!?!?!?) having a conversation about the offensive shortcomings of the New England Patriots "holding back" their defense.

    The only fantasy football going on here is the collective fantasy that this defense New England has put together is anything but absolutely terrible. 

    Stop teams from scoring. Period.

    If they didn't play opposite this offense they would be last in the league in every category. 

    Finally, the difference between this team, and those teams that won superbowls is not: how often they run it, who runs it, when they run it, how long they hold the ball in the 4th quarter, when they score their points, etc, etc, etc. In EVERY SINGLE FACET this offense is superior to those they fielded then. Every aspect is better. 

    The defense is miles and miles and miles and miles and miles worse. 

    New England won't be a serious contender until that is fixed.

    [/QUOTE]


    Forget it, the doops will never learn.  They hate stats because they obviously paint a different picture than their distorted perceptions. NO team, not even the #1, O scores in every quarter!

    They haven't a clue on how OFF BASE they are but are sticking too it.

    Here's some interesting stats:  Though I don't know why I bother.

    The Pats 0 ranks 10th in 4th quarter scoring to date.  That is far from their reality.

    They so far are averaging 7.9 points in the 4th.  Last year they averaged 8.0 points in the 4th.

    1st qtr they rank 2nd, 2nd qtr they rank 13th (Their worst qtr), 3rd they rank 3rd,

    On the other deformed hand, the D ranks as follows In points allowed:

    1st qtr. 13th, 2nd qtr. 10th, 3rd qtr. 20th, and 4th. 27th .

    In the 4th qtr. they are giving up 8.7 points/qtr.  Last year they gave up 6.7 points in the 4ths.

    That's 2 more points per quarter than last years 31st ranked D.

    They are also on the field 4 minutes LESS  p/g than last years D.  Boohoo they're tired from the O not scoring.  Rubbish!

    This D truly would be last in every single catagory imaginable WITH OUT the strength of the O.

    Take that to the bank and quit blaming the offense that has been carrying the D for 3+ years .

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    yes.

     

    And, AT LEAST, given that New England is #1 in rushing attempts in the NFL this season, and 5th in TOP, I don't have to hear about how those abysmal defensive metrics are *really* a result of the offense not handing it off. 

    The defense stinks. They get bullied around by teams who want to chew clock up and keep Brady off the field, they get cut to bits by teams that want to score tons of points. They fold 9 times out of 10 when staked to a one score lead. 

    Maybe they'll get better as the season wears on, but we've been saying that for a few seasons now, and it always ends the same way. At some point the offense can't score all game long, and then the defense does what it always does, folds up like a lawn chair. 

    If your offense is there 90% of the time, and your defense is there 10% of the time, when you lose on that 1 out of 10 that your offense isn't there it reflects a higher degree of intelligence to try and improve the unit that could stand improvement much, much easier. 

    Getting from where the Pats offense is now (best in the NFL) to perfect is much much more difficult than improving this defense from its current victim status to something respectable.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The whole idea of this thread is just wrong.

    The offense in NE has produced the least turnovers, most yards, most points, has contributed to the 7th best TOP (TOP is also a defensive stat). For those "rush" fanatics, this comes with being #1 overall in rushing attempts per game. 

    So again, another top 3 offense, doesn't matter how they do it. This offense is great every season.

    They don't score a ton of points late in games because they are trying to chew clock up most of the time. They scored the 6 they needed last week by spreading the field and throwing it, when they needed to. 

    The defense is anemic.

    Rushing more has done nothing to help this defense. The fault lies with the talent, lack thereof, on defense. 

    As I've said a million times. The defining difference between this team, and those SB winners is not Weiss, rushing, Brady changing, anything like that. It's that there is no Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel, McGinest, Law, Harrison, et al. 

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes, especially on days when their own offense is not playing its best. Otherwise, get ready for another exit. You *will not* run the playoffs dropping 40 points on the elite teams of the NFL four games in a row. One, two or three of those games will require your defense to hold a team to something like 12 or 17 points, and make due with 17-20 points from the offense. 

    That is how NE won it's championships before, and how every superbowl team since then has won it's championships. You need a defense that can outright win a game or two on its own. 

    [/QUOTE]

    How many of those games were won on a late game drive?

    [/QUOTE]


    How many games did they have a 9 to 13 point lead in the 4th?...  Why MUST they score in the 4th with a lead that would be safe with any other D?   NO TEAM SCORES IN EVERY QUARTER!  It happenes but very, very, very, rarely.  Even when they scored fiftyfricken-two points they did not score in every quarter.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes,

    [QUOTE]

    This statement concerns me the most..it means there is nothing really to do about the D.

    I hope you are not a good judge of talent.

    I was thinking the only part of the defense that one could debate as not very talented is the secondary...and they have inexperienced people which could sometimes be mistaken for lack of talent. I am hoping they could improve quite a bit this season.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    In response to patsbandwagonsince76's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I mean, the sheer, sheer CHASM of talent difference on defense is so large that ignoring it, not recognizing it, pretending it's not there, is just willfull. NE needs a defense that can hold a great offense to just a couple scores sometimes,

    [QUOTE]

    This statement concerns me the most..it means there is nothing really to do about the D.

    I hope you are not a good judge of talent.

    I was thinking the only part of the defense that one could debate as not very talented is the secondary...and they have inexperienced people which could sometimes be mistaken for lack of talent. I am hoping they could improve quite a bit this season.

    [/QUOTE]


    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the secondary to improve.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    Interesting stats Pezz and great analysis as always from Zbellino. 

    Patsbandwagon, I think the one hope we have is that a lot of the defensive players are inexperienced. Because of this, there is a real possibility they'll improve over the course of the year. It's a bit of a long-shot, but Dennard, Dowling, Wilson, and even Ebner all could get better.  I think McCourty is okay (despite all the criticism he takes from fans).  Chung and Gregory are what they are (neither is a top-level safety in my opinion).  Cole and Moore are jags, I think.  Arrington is one of my favourite special teams players, but I'm not sure he's cut out to start in the defensive backfield.

    Pass coverage from the LBs is a different story.  I just don't see a lot of room for growth there.  And right now that's a weakness for us.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    Denver is giving up 1 point on average in the 4th.  Their last 3 they allowed ZERO!

    Seattle, 3.4

    Arizona, 3.9

    Baltimore, 5

    Jets, 6.7

    Any of there teams look familiar?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stillgridlocked. Show stillgridlocked's posts

    Re: A tale of the fourth; Patriots offense vs. defense, who's to blame?

    The D and the O are sucking wind in the 4th quarter. They are mailing it in in the 4th.

    Their super bowl teams demolished other teams in the 4th quarter.

     

    No one seems to agree with me but I've been saying that for a long time.

     

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