A White Vick....

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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A White Vick.... : The author doesn't do that. The headline is misleading . . .   that's the problem . . .  not the "cultural" excuse, which is an entirely different discussion. Read the article.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    Actually I did here's some key points that he danced around the subject:

    "I'm not saying that a black QB who stands in the pocket ain't playing black. I'm saying Vick's style is so badass, so artistic, so fluid, so flamboyant, so relentless -- so representative of black athletic style -- that if there were a stat for swagger points, Vick would be the No. 1 quarterback in the league by far."

    Translation, if he wasn't black and didn't play a black athletes style he'd be more highly regarded. I little hint when someone says "I'm not saying" that means that they are saying

    "Would a white football player have gotten nearly two years in prison for what Vick did to dogs?"

    Why pose the question if you didn't mean to bring up the question?

    "This question makes me cringe. It is so facile, naive, shortsighted and flawed that it is meaningless. Whiteness comes with great advantages, but it's not a get-out-of-every-crime-free card. Killing dogs is a heinous crime that disgusts and frightens many Americans. I'm certain white privilege would not be enough to rescue a white NFL star caught killing dogs. "

    That statement lets him dance around the subject but still points that whiteness do get away with certain stuff just not every thing

    "Ultimately, there is no separating Vick from his circumstances: his race, parents, economics and opportunities"

    If the point was purely color isn't the issue as he stated then why mention his race as a factor compared to the others mentioned above.

    Yes the writer has made very good points as the differences in the cultures and have that culture can change to improve but why does he keep tossing in these subtle comments that leads the reader to think that if he was a different color things would be different instead of saying if his father was different, or he came from a better economic position, or if he had better opportunities? He could have easily written this same piece without changing Vick's color by just moving the location where he grew up. The writer chose to make the color as a determining factor instead of environment which lead to the title of this piece.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from patthepatriot666. Show patthepatriot666's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    yep if black society will not look in the mirror things will go on the same way-
    you would think that all these black athletes that make millions and millions would put more of an effort into restoring the communities they come from
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]yep if black society will not look in the mirror things will go on the same way- you would think that all these black athletes that make millions and millions would put more of an effort into restoring the communities they come from
    Posted by patthepatriot666[/QUOTE]

    Some do just that like Wilfork for example. I have all the respect in the world for them and have gladly given money to help with his charities.

    Unfortunately the thug life presented by rap starts, certain actors, and some athletes is much more attractive then what Wilfork is offering.

    It's funny how people like Ice T who made his fortune off the thug life has now done a 180 saying that it needs to change. What he doesn't understand is he had a greater impact while making his fortune then he does saying things need to change.
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    Being from the inner city here is my take on the problem.  There is not much available to help the youth other than sports and music.  Take a walk through the inner city and look at the houses, the parks, the schools.  What are kids to do?  Charities don't help feed kids on a daily basis.  Charities don't help keep lights, gas, or heat on.  Charities don't help keep kids safe walking home.  So a child grows up with this rough life and guess who can relate to them?  Rappers, and athletes.  They see sports and music as the only way out.  Yes there are doctors, and lawyers who have made it out, but few.

    Kids in the hood have an "us against the world" mentality.  Politicians would rather throw kids in jail or fine them for sagging their pants than figure out how to improve the conditions of the environment.  Regular people would rather sit up say "they need to do this or that" when they know nothing about what life is like growing up in that environment.

    Unfortunately, these factors help lead kids to crime, and we all know that once in the system, it's over.  So to sum it up, if the environment changes, the products will change.  Nothing else will work.  Not building more prisions, not voting for a different president, not censoring music, or any other fake solution.

     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]Being from the inner city here is my take on the problem.  There is not much available to help the youth other than sports and music.  Take a walk through the inner city and look at the houses, the parks, the schools.  What are kids to do?  Charities don't help feed kids on a daily basis.  Charities don't help keep lights, gas, or heat on.  Charities don't help keep kids safe walking home.  So a child grows up with this rough life and guess who can relate to them?  Rappers, and athletes.  They see sports and music as the only way out.  Yes there are doctors, and lawyers who have made it out, but few. Kids in the hood have an "us against the world" mentality.  Politicians would rather throw kids in jail or fine them for sagging their pants than figure out how to improve the conditions of the environment.  Regular people would rather sit up say "they need to do this or that" when they know nothing about what life is like growing up in that environment. Unfortunately, these factors help lead kids to crime, and we all know that once in the system, it's over.  So to sum it up, if the environment changes, the products will change.  Nothing else will work.  Not building more prisions, not voting for a different president, not censoring music, or any other fake solution.
    Posted by N2thaIzzo[/QUOTE]

    Well charities do clean up parks, and provide places for kids to go after school, and tries to give them assistance with school work to get them in college (boy and girls club and urban renewal are 2 great examples).

    You are right about politicians though. However, as most have stated it's up to the communities to fix the problem not to pass the buck to other people. It's their community, they need to take ownership of it, clean up the streets, change the culture, reduce crime, and make it a better place to live. This has happened in plenty of communities so it is possible and can happen. Wilfork was instrumental in improving his community that he grew up in. It's when people deflect blame and don't take ownership that things fall apart.

    BTW I did spend a far portion of my youth in Lowell before my dad moved us to Danvers to get us out of that area. Things have only gotten worse since we left and I can tell you it was because of the people and the culture that moved in (not race related but the culture had changed significantly).

    It's up to the community to show youths and provide local hero's are people to look up to. If the youths are basing how they should act solely based on the music or sports stars then it's the community and their family that failed them not society. As I've send I have friends from some pretty bad projects in Dorchester and all their neighbors and family pounded in their head that they needed to do good in school and get a college degree so they could get out of there. There needs to be more of that and less deflection saying that it's the cultures fault or the economic situation. Yes, those are factors but if communities band together it's factors they can control
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]I wonder what I'd look like white?  
    Posted by Rerun85[/QUOTE]

    A pale imitation of yourself?
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    I just read the article.  It's actually quite good.  And it's conclusion is that Vick's race is only part of the story. . . and that where Vick goes from here has nothing to do with race.

    Actually, it's quite good. 

    Makes me wonder what all the fuss is about?  Hmmm . . . I bet I know . . . that, in fact, is all about race. 
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]I haven't read the racist articles yet, because it's more of the same, especially after reading the snippets PatsEng posted.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]


    Always better to reach one's conclusions uninformed  . . .  Wink
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]I haven't read the racist articles yet, because it's more of the same, especially after reading the snippets PatsEng posted.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Actually you should read it Rusty. It's actually a really good article and does bring to light a number of situations that need to be changed for the culture to change.

    The only reason I highlighted those parts was to show that there is a hint of race baiting involved. now whether it was unintentional on the writers part or to drive up controversy and bring people to talk about the situation (I'm guessing it's the latter knwoing ESPN) the main point I was trying to make was that the writer could have written the same piece and left color out completely. The main points he was driving at as far as parents taking responsibility, and the effect of cultural environments negatively effecting a child's development was very well done. I just think the writer should have attacked the issue without bringing in color or trying to partial defend Vick's actions and that would have been a more hard hitting article. It's almost like he has a great perspective but decided to toss in the what if color debate to get more readers.

    I would actually love to see him rewrite it as a social commentary towards how a bad situation can and should be improved in order to develop better adjusted kids. I think it would be a hard hitting subject with Vick being a secondary figure as an example of what happens in X environment and how it could change if Y things could change
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    Wow.. now think about it...  if a black vick used the alias "Ron Mexico" to share his herpes does this mean a white Vick would register under "Arthur Scandinavia"?
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    This is absurd...

    Why does everybody have to equate years and years of oppression to a stupid theoretical article by ESPN?

    Political correctness in this workd has gotten ridiculously out of hand...

    I realize the article is just a stupid idea in general, but it's to the point now that people can't even say the race that a person is...

    I find it absurd that a person would take offense to someone calling them black or white...

    I personally think it's a stupid idea for an article because nothing good can come of it, but I think it's cool as hell to see Mike Vick as a white dude...

    Just like it's cool as hell to see Tom Brady as a black dude on Barstool today...

    It's just something cool and different to see...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninpa420. Show patsfaninpa420's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    Racism will die when race is stopped being made an issue.
     
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    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]Racism will die when race is stopped being made an issue.
    Posted by patsfaninpa420[/QUOTE]

    I guess it will be a while then, or when everyone is dead.......lol.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mungomunro. Show Mungomunro's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

      You can criticize or make fun of your own race, religion etc but not someone else... Everyone can make fun of people from Belgium.  Even racist or x rated jokes can be ok but only if the joke is really really funny and not just a stupid hate joke.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    So the name Larry Belgium would be ok then.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from lippa. Show lippa's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]Being from the inner city here is my take on the problem.  There is not much available to help the youth other than sports and music.  Take a walk through the inner city and look at the houses, the parks, the schools.  What are kids to do?  Charities don't help feed kids on a daily basis.  Charities don't help keep lights, gas, or heat on.  Charities don't help keep kids safe walking home.  So a child grows up with this rough life and guess who can relate to them?  Rappers, and athletes.  They see sports and music as the only way out.  Yes there are doctors, and lawyers who have made it out, but few. Kids in the hood have an "us against the world" mentality.  Politicians would rather throw kids in jail or fine them for sagging their pants than figure out how to improve the conditions of the environment.  Regular people would rather sit up say "they need to do this or that" when they know nothing about what life is like growing up in that environment. Unfortunately, these factors help lead kids to crime, and we all know that once in the system, it's over.  So to sum it up, if the environment changes, the products will change.  Nothing else will work.  Not building more prisions, not voting for a different president, not censoring music, or any other fake solution.
    Posted by N2thaIzzo[/QUOTE]
    Ok  yeah take a walk though the inner city,What I see and been asking  for awhile now ,What do you see nice cars with rims and all right?I would rather have better living conditions and a nice neighborhood and drive a sh*t box,but No they rather have a expensive car and all and live where they live .
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    In Response to Re: A White Vick....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A White Vick.... : Ok  yeah take a walk though the inner city,What I see and been asking  for awhile now ,What do you see nice cars with rims and all right?I would rather have better living conditions and a nice neighborhood and drive a sh*t box,but No they rather have a expensive car and all and live where they live .
    Posted by lippa[/QUOTE]

    Want to know why?  Because no one teaches young men what to do with money when they get it.  People usually get that kind of information from parents, but if your parents don't know, who is supposed to inform them?  When you grow up poor, most likely you do ride around in sh*t box and guess what, it sucks.  So when you get money, you wanna improve that.  You can say now what your preference would be because you are an adult, and u know better.  A lot of these kids don't know any better...
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ReeGzUSMC. Show ReeGzUSMC's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    I thought it was a good article. People seem to be taking it the wrong way... surprising..
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from N2thaIzzo. Show N2thaIzzo's posts

    Re: A White Vick....

    Look, I'd be the first to tell you people need to grow up.  Especially when you see people out there in their 30's and 40's still acting like little children.  But alot of the kids get in trouble, just like most of us got in trouble during our youth.  The difference is our trouble got us on punishment, theirs get them in jail. 

    I'm in no way trying to excuse the many mistakes they make.  I'm just saying, it's not as easy to break the cycle when you are a child and the cycle is what you believe is they way things are done..
     

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