All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Apparently, W-T-F??  Discuss!!

    Ian R. Rapoport
    Asked Pepper Johnson if he's gotten the play he's wanted from the Patriots DL: : "Yes. And some." Not what I expected.

    Ian R. Rapoport
    Patriots DL Coach Pepper Johnson seems very encouraged at the players learning new tricks on the DL. Expects more improvement

    Ian R. Rapoport
    Once again, Pepper Johnson says he's more than satisfied with the pass-rush. Says people are just looking at stats.

    Ian R. Rapoport
    One thing: What Pepper Johnson said today about the pass-rush is what players have been saying for 2 weeks. They are OK with their play. Odd

    Ian R. Rapoport
    On Sunday, I wrote that Patriots defenders view themselves as "thisclose" in the pass rush: Pepper Johnson agrees



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    There's no reason anybody on this forum should care, but another guy who believes his team is "this close" to putting it all together is Leslie Frazier.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Really? I've seen more pressure in a can of coke then what the DL has produced so far. When he limits the opposing QB to under 4s a play then I'd say that their pass rush has improved
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Really? I've seen more pressure in a can of coke then what the DL has produced so far. When he limits the opposing QB to under 4s a play then I'd say that their pass rush has improved
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Here's some clues for you. First stop dropping acid before games. Second actually watch the game instead of relying on what the announcers are saying. The D line has been improving at collapsing the pocket and stopping the run. People who get hung up on sacks as the main indicator of a D line's defense against the pass are morons.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Its one thing to say sacks are overated, its another to say you are fine with guys rushing and getting no where near the qb.

    Pepper has to support his line....I wouldnt expect him to say anything different, but us fans know better.

    The pressure has been ok at times, but to me there just isnt enough rotation and bringing in fresh guys.  I liked what I saw from Anderson but he made a play in garbage time.  Why is Ninkovich on the field all 4 downs of every game rushing the passer when clearly he is not effective there.  I see Cunningham slowly getting in at DE but no impact yet....If Cunningham cant rush any better than Nink, than what is he doing?  Thats all I want to see is guys coming off the field for other guys in order to keep fresh bodies out there. I still dont know why we didnt keep E.Moore, he seemed to be our best pass rusher..I am almost starting to think B.B. doesnt like sacks....just wants the ball to come out and hope to pick it off??  IDK
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush : Here's some clues for you. First stop dropping acid before games. Second actually watch the game instead of relying on what the announcers are saying. The D line has been improving at collapsing the pocket and stopping the run. People who get hung up on sacks as the main indicator of a D line's defense against the pass are morons.
    Posted by Evil2012[/QUOTE]

    Here's a clue for you, watch how a QB moves in the pocket to understand how much pressure is applied. We've faced a number of QB's that are well known for having happy feet. Instead I've noticed time and time again that the QB's don't move and step up into the pocket to make throws. The interior of the pocket doesn't collapse and the outside edge will always collapse given enough time but watch how the pocket is formed. If it's a properly formed pocket it should look like a horseshoe forming around the QB with the outside rushers being forced behind the QB. This happens more times then not with the Pats pass rush. The other key indicator is if the QB needs to leave the pocket or just shift his position in the pocket, most of the time with the Pats DL QB's don't leave the T's and really have to scramble outside the T's which means they aren't getting pressure. It's not just sacks either it's also QB pressures and hits which the Pats are gamefully behind the average in the league. A good rushing team will give the opposing QB less then 4s to throw the ball, a great team less then 3s. We consistently give the QB all day before it becomes a broken play and the opposing QB tries to make something happen. Maybe you should watch the games again and understand what pressure is because we aren't getting it within a decent amount of times.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    I think they are improved some but not enough. They are closing the pocket and making the QB move and occasionally getting a hit but 4 or 5 seconds is just too long. Or if they could break through every 5 or 6 snaps they could get the qb thinking about getting hit and rushing his pass even when the rush isn't there. But this slowly collapsing pocket thing just let's guys keep an accurate timer to throw or get rid of it. Seems last year QB's would routinely take 6 or 7 seconds, and I don't think that's available as often. Db's need to be able to cover for at least 3 seconds, and if that's not happening than there is little hope anyway. But as we all know close doesn't cut it and I hope they improve but I'm not counting on it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    No no no, the key to that entire interview was this, "I'm quite sure that the questions are from stats and not really detail and watching the game. I'm watching the guys do what we're asking them to do."

    As in a pass rush is not currently in our game plan. We send the fewest extra rushers in the league. We send 3-4 d-linemen at 5-6 o-linemen every game. It is time to accept that as of right now Bill Belichick does not think getting to the other teams QB is as important as using the offense to pressure the other teams defense and wait for the mistakes down field.

    We have shifted philosophy to the offense. We are drafting weapons for Brady, not D-linemen or edge rushers. it is not in our game plan.

    Look BB probably isn't always right but I think we are seeing another case where he is adapting to the NFL rules. Defense unfortunately might no longer win championships.

    Do we all think that if BB was really worried about a pass rush that he would consistently ignore drafting D-linemen and edge rushers to basically only draft CBs high in the draft? Do we think he is an idiot? Or is it possible he may in fact have a method to his madness?

    Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary.

    Welcome to the NFL 2010 version.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]No no no, the key to that entire interview was this, "I'm quite sure that the questions are from stats and not really detail and watching the game. I'm watching the guys do what we're asking them to do." As in a pass rush is not currently in our game plan. We send the fewest extra rushers in the league. We send 3-4 d-linemen at 5-6 o-linemen every game. It is time to accept that as of right now Bill Belichick does not think getting to the other teams QB is as important as using the offense to pressure the other teams defense and wait for the mistakes down field. We have shifted philosophy to the offense. We are drafting weapons for Brady, not D-linemen or edge rushers. it is not in our game plan. Look BB probably isn't always right but I think we are seeing another case where he is adapting to the NFL rules. Defense unfortunately might no longer win championships. Do we all think that if BB was really worried about a pass rush that he would consistently ignore drafting D-linemen and edge rushers to basically only draft CBs high in the draft? Do we think he is an idiot? Or is it possible he may in fact have a method to his madness? Might no longer be a aneed in todays NFL to draft Seymour,Warren and Wilfork in the 1st rd 3 out of 4 years.  Its been a long time since 1st-2nd rd defensive  draft picks have been a priority. Other then secondary. Welcome to the NFL 2010 version.
    Posted by TrueChamp[/QUOTE]


    Sadly champ, i think this has been the case for a while now.  Even when we had great D-lineman, we would rarely let them loose. They do that 2 step dance with the lineman and were basically told if you dont get by you man on the 1st man, then fall back, get in the passing lanes and get your hands up for a batted ball. Seymour was great at this.  When B.B. wants to rush the passer you will know because  he will have a great scheme or you will see blitzes,

    Right now, its what you said, he isnt looking to get sacks.  How else do you explain all those 3 man rushes?  Its basically keep the QB contained.  It works for Vick, but I guess Bill thinks highly of Fitzy and Campbells ability to run.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoLongHarryTruman. Show SoLongHarryTruman's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]No no no, the key to that entire interview was this, "I'm quite sure that the questions are from stats and not really detail and watching the game. I'm watching the guys do what we're asking them to do." [/QUOTE]

    Exactly what I've been thinking. All the complainers on this board don't have a clue what's being asked of the D. 

    The Pats game plan. It looks to me like they do pretty well with game plan elements that are obvious to us patzers: shut down Gates and limit the run game for SD, the Bills, and Oakland. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    I suppose I'm just drinking the kool aid but I gotta believe BB knows what he's doing.  If Pepper says they are doing what is expected of them then so be it.  Truthfully, I'd like to see a couple of sacks here and there if for no other reason than deter the incessant stream of threads declaring the end of the world is nigh because the Pats don't have any sacks.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

         The play of Albert Haynesworth in the second half of the season will go a long way in determining what the Patriots can accomplish this season. BB is doing the right thing in keeping him on the shelf until his back is 100% back. He will make a huge difference if he can regain his health...and work himself into playing condition. He has the ability to at times dominate.  
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    Seems BB's game plan of NOT rushing the passer is working out ok at this point. A quarter of the way through and we are 2nd in the league in interceptions. PPG will drop imo, and I won't be surprised by year end if we are top 3 in take aways and top 10 in ppg allowed......AGAIN.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE] I agree,. I mentioned this repeatedly.  The gameplan works. BB has used the same one for 4 weeks straight and the only loss came in a game where our QB threw 4 INTs. So, we can all do the math.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    C'mon now, really?  Seriously?  I'm not buying this bs!

    Why rely so much on the Offense and TFB12? I know he's great and we have so many weapons on offense but turnovers happen and what if the opponent has a great game plan and shuts down the O, then what?  Why not have a pressure defense to go along with a high power offense? Whats so wrong with shutting an opponent down? If this truly is BB's plan all along then it's a matter of time that it backfires again.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Umm, maybe because it's tough to do with the Polian/Goodell league the way it's developed? Have you been asleep the last few years or now out of a lockout as Goodell tries to sell his league to Europe? Everything is set up to cater to the offense.  Take a look at the results in this game on the road WITH Brady's 3 INTs: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=270114024 Look at the rushing averages of Tomlinson and Turner. Look at the receving yards.  That's almost 400 total yards of offense against us. This is BEFORE or during the push from the Polian/Goodell surge to see far more offense. Now look at this one: 10/2/2005 http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=251002017
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Oh really?

    Did you happen to catch the Cowboys/Redskins game? Or perhaps the Ravens/Jets? Or did you notice the Titans have given up 56 points in 4 games? Oh, I see, it wasn't the good defenses, it was the quarterbacks just throwing interceptions!!!!!!!

    Wow, you post a lot. Maybe someday there will be some actual intellect displayed therein.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]Its one thing to say sacks are overated, its another to say you are fine with guys rushing and getting no where near the qb. Pepper has to support his line....I wouldnt expect him to say anything different, but us fans know better. The pressure has been ok at times, but to me there just isnt enough rotation and bringing in fresh guys.  I liked what I saw from Anderson but he made a play in garbage time.  Why is Ninkovich on the field all 4 downs of every game rushing the passer when clearly he is not effective there.  I see Cunningham slowly getting in at DE but no impact yet....If Cunningham cant rush any better than Nink, than what is he doing?  Thats all I want to see is guys coming off the field for other guys in order to keep fresh bodies out there. I still dont know why we didnt keep E.Moore, he seemed to be our best pass rusher..I am almost starting to think B.B. doesnt like sacks....just wants the ball to come out and hope to pick it off??  IDK
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Actually you don't know any better. The D line has been collapsing the pocket. You guys see what you want to see
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    sml1210...

     I didn't know our D line played in those games. This is why you're stooge. You think everyone should scheme exactly the same despite having players with different skill sets and playing teams with different offenses?  Any of those teams have a someone behind center as good as the Chargers or Bills do? I don't think any of them are even as good as Henne. Here's a clue genius. You blitz a team with a top QB and a receiver or 2 who knows what to do when a blitz is coming and that QB is going to burn you big time.

    Here's another clue clueless. The 4 teams you mention ONE the Cowboys ranks in the top ten in offense and they have one of the biggest choker QBs in football. We've already played 3 of the top ten offensive teams and beat 2 of them. And the Buffalo loss was Brady's doing.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    I see what I want? no, if so I would see more sacks

    I guess somewhere in the midst of these QB's throwing for 400 yards there may have been one or two times they were a bit uncomfortable by having to side step a lineman being pushed back into him, but obviously it hasnt happend enough or they would eventually lead to sacks and errant throws.  There have been some yes, but most are just bonehead plays like Campbells gift wrapped INT.

    We dont have to agree.  You keep an eye on that pocket.  I'll look for the QB to hit the ground.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kevin13130. Show kevin13130's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    That is odd, and very interesting. Obviously Coach Johnson doesn't want to bad mouth his players, but if he actually felt the pass rush wasn't good enough, he would probably say something along the lines of "It's doing ok, but there's always room for improvement."

    Instead, he says he's gotten what he wants out of the line, and then some. I don't know if this is supposed to be encouraging, or a sign of denial. I don't have access to the game tape so I wouldn't know what they're talking about.

    Maybe the line has done everything it was asked to do, and that didn't include getting to the QB. Regardless of what the coaches say, I'm sure we all want to see the opposing QB getting knocked around a couple times a game.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jcour382. Show jcour382's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    low scoring teams are inept... lets face it the good teams can light you up...some need  better qbs and that will hlp them get to that point...some have young qbs but you can already see the promise (cincinatti)
    offenses are more deverse and there are crazy playmakers and the rules favor them... i think its amusing poeple dont correlate it... or that they dont crack on other defenses getting lit up...that are "so called" good defenses

    i think pats have always played bend dont break... i think thy are def going to try to collapse pocket and contain run with 4-3 and put pressur on qb... but i also think thy will go 3-4 when it suits them... i think it needs to gt better but me and my son (19) were looking for thm to stop the run against raiders which they did and we were happy...cause they won... thought thy played pretty good...didnt like the last scoring drive by raiders.. but what you gonna do

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2012. Show Evil2012's posts

    Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush

    In Response to Re: All is good with the Patriots Pass Rush:
    [QUOTE]I see what I want? no, if so I would see more sacks I guess somewhere in the midst of these QB's throwing for 400 yards there may have been one or two times they were a bit uncomfortable by having to side step a lineman being pushed back into him, but obviously it hasnt happend enough or they would eventually lead to sacks and errant throws.  There have been some yes, but most are just bonehead plays like Campbells gift wrapped INT. We dont have to agree.  You keep an eye on that pocket.  I'll look for the QB to hit the ground.
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    You want to see more sacks? Then empty your piggybank and buy your own team. The rest of us are more interested in win/loss. The teams purpose is not to entertain you with flashy sacks it's to win games. as for Campbell's INTs. Most are QB mistakes. You really don't know anything about football. I bet you're a big time fantasy football owner though.
     

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