And the New England Patriots Select...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Even if they could trade thier first round pick for Harvin himself I wouldn't do it.  Harvin is way overrated, 39th in yards.  He's a good returner but you don't draft in the first round for a returner.  I'm not a fan of going WR and getting a guy who can only impact the game 5-10 plays per game compared to a lineman who is directly impacting every snap (either Offense, or Defense) of the game.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Shenanigan is right ... get some linemen who can protect Brady already.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Tate doesn't have the speed of Harvin. I would pick Brandon Graham. I would rather pick a running back over a wideout too. Next year the Pats will have Moss, Edelman, and Welker back at some point. I think they should try to sign a couple of older wideouts (not like Sam Aiken, but guys who can actually play). Say Branch or Stallworth (not getting into that debate). Say they also sign Josh Reed, something Reiss has suggested.

    Moss 
    Edelman
    Branch or Stallworth
    Reed
    Tate

    This is without Welker. Obviously the situation would improve with WW. 

    IMO it makes no sense to draft a WR high. They NEED passrushers, and you either a)have to draft them or b)have to pay them a ton of money (and that is very risky (see A Thomas). Just go after a beast with pick 22! Pick Graham, or, if BB thinks Kindle can walk and chew gum at the same time, take Kindle. A passrusher will make Wilhite look like Randle Gay and Butler look like Samuel.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

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    Hello gents and ladies, Even the pundints are saying the problem with the Patriots Offense are trying to put the Patriots O-line as the culprits but as a ranking they were pretty good at protecting the QB all season,its the Running game and the quality of the WR options after Welker went down that was the downfall of this team,that and the defense couldn't stop a well oiled High School team! Wilfork was abused by the Ravens in the playoff game and the team went into hybernation right after that run by Ray Rice! The offense never stopped the Ravens defense from controlling the line of scrimage bottom line a lack of team effort cost them from advancing,which as it turns out is a blessing! If they had made it to the final eight they couldn't venture into the Free Agent market unless some other team signed their Free Agents,also they gain 6 spots in the drafting position which could be of immense help in choosing the player they want for a first pick in this draft ort whether they trade down or up,all these things will help the Patriots for the coming years.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:
    [QUOTE]Tate doesn't have the speed of Harvin. I would pick Brandon Graham. I would rather pick a running back over a wideout too. Next year the Pats will have Moss, Edelman, and Welker back at some point. I think they should try to sign a couple of older wideouts (not like Sam Aiken, but guys who can actually play). Say Branch or Stallworth (not getting into that debate). Say they also sign Josh Reed, something Reiss has suggested. Moss  Edelman Branch or Stallworth Reed Tate This is without Welker. Obviously the situation would improve with WW.  IMO it makes no sense to draft a WR high. They NEED passrushers, and you either a)have to draft them or b)have to pay them a ton of money (and that is very risky (see A Thomas). Just go after a beast with pick 22! Pick Graham, or, if BB thinks Kindle can walk and chew gum at the same time, take Kindle. A passrusher will make Wilhite look like Randle Gay and Butler look like Samuel.
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]Nobody can make Wilhite look like anyone other than who he is a second rate DB, as for Butler I think he has star written all over him! They are going to need an OLB/DE to rush the QB,and they do need a receiver whether it be a draftee or a Free Agent,I wouldn't put a great deal of stock in Brandon Tate as being the answer and I would love to see them draft a Jordan Shipley or Golden Tate but I'd be satisfied if they draft Eric Decker as he will be the stud receiver in this draft...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Papifan111,
    Tate is probably my favorite player in this draft, he often appeared to be on another level compared to most players on the field and I think he's an option at 22.  He's been extremely productive (157-2707-26 in his career) and versatile and can provide value on the outside, in the slot and as a potential PR/RB (wildcat and came to ND as an RB), but I think he projects as a #1 receiver at the next level and could be the possible successor to Moss (contract expires after the 2010 season).  At ND, teams knew he was getting the football (especially with Michael Floyd out for 5 games or so) and still couldn't stop him.  He's as tough as nails, runs great routes, has great hands and just makes big play after big play after big play and wants the ball in his hands at crunch time.  He also has excellent balls skill and the ability to pick up a ton of yards after the catch/contact.  He played his 3 years in a Charlie Weis offense so I think his acclimation to BB's offense would be accelerated and he could be a difference maker in their offense from day 1.

    Some video of Tate below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikQaUdZrET8

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    I don't think you'll find too many people who wouldn't mind having Tate on the Pats but I believe when you look at the needs of the team Tate is a luxury the Pats cannot afford at this time.  Drafting Tate does make some sense because he can takeover the #1 WR slot when the Moss contract is up.  But when you look at the the key things we need on the team that 3rd WR is down the list.  We need a DE, a passer rush, another OL and a CB if Bodden isn't resigned.  I would have to skip on Tate.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ipats. Show ipats's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    I agree mbeaulieu--I am a big fan of Tate as well.  He has great hands, makes big catches, often double teamed, already knows the offense, and can return kicks. 

    He could be an impact player right away (assuming no strike/lock-out!) and IMO he is worthy of a first round pick. He reminds me a lot of Deion Branch.

    Having said that, pass rusher is the biggest need. But if they address this thru free-agency or a trade, I could see them picking Tate.

    Tate also led off and played CF for the baseball team so if things don't work out with Mike Cameron...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Tate is impressive. His size is not great and he had a very good QB throwing to him, but you can see his skills. His run after the catch is very strong; nice feet, thick lower body, seams to be able to break tackles. It will be interesting to see what he runs in the 40. Looks like there will be some pretty good players there at 22 when the pats pick, to bad they will be trading down looking for "value" while other teams live for the here and now. I swear there goal is to have 350 picks for the 2015 draft, just in case.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from EASON11. Show EASON11's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Trade down ala BB for " VALUE "............we have passed on a dozen good linebackers..........Crable will be healthy by 2015
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheCommittee. Show TheCommittee's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    mbeaulieu those are my thoughts exactly. When I think of Golden Tate, I view him in the same light that I viewed Darius Butler in last year. He's a late first-early second pick, great at his natural position, and he's extremely versitale.  Tate, like Butler, doesn't have eye-popping measurables, but he has the physical tools to succeed in the NFL.

    I think 22 may be a bit high for Tate, but I would not complain if we grabbed him there, especially if there is no DE or OLB worth taking when the Pats are on the board. However, my guess is that Belichick will draft either a DE in Round 1 or trade down.

    A lot of people are screaming for an OLB at 22, but Belichick has never taken an edge rusher in the first round, and I don't think there are any that Belichick would deem worthy of a first round selection. OT also probably won't be an option either, considering the success that Belichick had with Vollmer in Round 2.

    If I had to predict the top 3 possibilities for the first pick, it would be:
    1) DE
    2) Trade down
    3) WR

    Could Tate be the pick? Possibly, but I think Belichick will try to focus more on defense in this draft. The selection of Tate at 22 hinges upon who is available at DE when the Pats pick.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from alcondragon. Show alcondragon's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    As much as I would love to see Tate, I think we are all once again doing wishful thinking. BB proves every one of us wrong and puts an unusual spin on every draft.
    If we go by the past decisions he makes then he will go for the D-Line or O-line first. Second round he will pick a running back and Lb or more linemen. I think he will go to Free Agency for a receiver.
    One thing is for sure, we have to wait to see, but Im sure glad we got SeaBass!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Mb: I respect your opinion and know you love Tate. I'm just a little worried that Weis' system and the QB were a big reason for the great numbers for Golden. I think that's what happened with Maurice Stovall, and he hasn't done anything in Tampa Bay. Also, in '06 the Pats were a much better team than in '09, even though the receivers were a joke. You don't build a team based on wideouts (see the Detroit Lions). 

    If BB doesn't concentrate on making this team tougher at the line of scrimmage, he'd be making a mistake. Although Tate may be great, the Pats still would be a soft team who can't get to the QB next year and can't get off the field on 3rd down. And yes, he hasn't picked up OLB's early and look where it's gotten him. The Shawn Crable's of the world are NOT the answer. If a Demarcus Ware type player is in this draft, you do everything to get him and fill in the needs later on. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Tate is Great!

    No really, I watched several ND games this past season and to say I was impressed is an understatement.  This guy is tough and has great hands.  He is small for a WR, but so is Steve Smith, the guy he reminds me of.

    IMO, no one should be thinking Welker in 2010.  If he comes back great, but im not expecting him.

    Bottom line this team has too many holes to fill.  It will be a few years before this team is good again. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joakimbrian. Show Joakimbrian's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    i want tate!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Radionowhere228. Show Radionowhere228's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    In my honest opinion the 22nd overall pick would be too high to select Golden Tate. I for one feel that Tate will still be avaiable in the early to mid second round and thus the Patriots could use one of their 3 second round selections on him. With their 22nd pick they should be thinking either defensive line, outside linebacker, and offensive line.

    Like so many other people have said, while outside linebacker is probably their biggest need, Belichick has never drafted an edge rusher in the first round and i don't think he will stat now. This leaves both offensive and defensive line.

    In that case I think they will have a couple of options at 22. For instanse, DE Brandon Graham would be a great pick. However, if by the time they select there are no DE/OLB's that they deem worth they might want to take a look at OG/OT Mike Iupati.

    Iupati is currently projected to be a late first round pick, I feel that with most NFL scouts feeling that he could easily play both guard and tackle his stock could potentially rise and make him a viable mid 1st round selection. Therefore, if Iupati is still avaiable by the 22nd selection the Pats should definitely take a serious look at him with that pick.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:
    [QUOTE]Mb: I respect your opinion and know you love Tate. I'm just a little worried that Weis' system and the QB were a big reason for the great numbers for Golden. I think that's what happened with Maurice Stovall, and he hasn't done anything in Tampa Bay. Also, in '06 the Pats were a much better team than in '09, even though the receivers were a joke. You don't build a team based on wideouts (see the Detroit Lions).  If BB doesn't concentrate on making this team tougher at the line of scrimmage, he'd be making a mistake. Although Tate may be great, the Pats still would be a soft team who can't get to the QB next year and can't get off the field on 3rd down. And yes, he hasn't picked up OLB's early and look where it's gotten him. The Shawn Crable's of the world are NOT the answer. If a Demarcus Ware type player is in this draft, you do everything to get him and fill in the needs later on. 
    Posted by Rockdog1293000[/QUOTE]

    Rockdog1293000,
    Thanks.  Why would you expect a drop offgoing from Clausen to Brady though?  I'm not going to compare Stovall to Tate because I think they're two different players.  I've watched most everyone of Tate's games the last two years and sure he has a good QB throwing too him, but he's doing his part to gain create seperation and get open, he's also using his ability to create yards after the catch and his ball skills are unbelievable, check out that video I posted, mutliple times he goes up against multiple defenders in the air and comes down with the ball..this is all happening against teams that know he's their primary offensive weapon.  IMO, Clausen benefited from Tate just as much as a lot of his TD's were short passes in which he used his run after the catch and big play ability to create TD's.

    I also won't compare drafting Tate at 22 to the Detroit Lions as A.  they never had a legit QB to get their WR's the ball and B.  they took a WR in the top 10, 4 out of 5 years which is completely different.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    I've watched the draft for a lot of years, specifically BB's drafts with NE and what I've gather is BB more often than not will choose the best player available to fit his scheme's in Rd 1.  He won't draft a player at a postion of need, just to take one (i.e. OLB this year).  If Graham or another player is that guy then sure, they'll take him, but I wouldn't lock them into drafting based on their biggest needs..

    I could go into great detail about how they passed on Connor Barwin 4 times in the 2009 draft and he was a player that had ideal size, skill set and intangibles for the 3-4 OLB postion.

    IMO, they won't take Graham in rd 1 because A.  He's shorter than ideal (601 vs the preferred 6-4 or 6-5) for a BB 3-4 OLB, which is a bigger deal than it sounds and B.  OLB isn't his natural position (he was a college DE), he's projected their so there is a good amount of risk involved and IMO, BB doesn't like to take a lot of risk on his 1st round guys.   He likes to take the talented known quantity, a player like Tate or Odrick or Spikes etc.  you know what those guys can do at their current position and how it will transfer to the NFL.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Good points. I used Detroit as an example of how NOT to build a team (picking wideouts). Tate definitely is very impressive. I especially liked how he abused Taylor Mays. Great ball skills and hand-eye coordination. He looks good to me, but in the end he won't be a #1 receiver material like Moss or Fitzgerald because of his measurables. You can't teach height, and from reports I've read he doesn't have top end speed. Assuming he will become Steve Smith from year 1 is too risky in my book. 

    As for Graham, I don't care what his position is. Watch him in the senior bowl. Unblockable. MVP of the game. He can flat out get to the qb. He is a relentless animal, and I want that guy on the pats. All 6'-5" of Crable (and his sickeningly skinny legs) can't get to the qb even if he were healthy (which he probably was, but being on IR is a way to not cut him in case he does improve). Graham's not tall, but he's thick and will hold up at the end of the line at a little over 260. And he's the same height at TBC, who happened to be their best OLB even though he was their shortest one. And in terms of the 'BB never did that before' comments: everyone was surprised when they took Mankins and Mayo too. By that standard Mayo would be on the lighter side (<250 lbs), but he was taken anyway. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    You're probably right about BB not taking him though, but I wish he would relax some of his size requirements and just get guys who can play. Either way I can't wait for april to come and the new draft class. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Radionowhere228. Show Radionowhere228's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:
    [QUOTE]I've watched the draft for a lot of years, specifically BB's drafts with NE and what I've gather is BB more often than not will choose the best player available to fit his scheme's in Rd 1.  He won't draft a player at a postion of need, just to take one (i.e. OLB this year).  If Graham or another player is that guy then sure, they'll take him, but I wouldn't lock them into drafting based on their biggest needs.. I could go into great detail about how they passed on Connor Barwin 4 times in the 2009 draft and he was a player that had ideal size, skill set and intangibles for the 3-4 OLB postion. IMO, they won't take Graham in rd 1 because A.   He's shorter than ideal (601 vs the preferred 6-4 or 6-5) for a BB 3-4 OLB, which is a bigger deal than it sounds and B.   OLB isn't his natural position (he was a college DE), he's projected their so there is a good amount of risk involved and IMO, BB doesn't like to take a lot of risk on his 1st round guys.   He likes to take the talented known quantity, a player like Tate or Odrick or Spikes etc.  you know what those guys can do at their current position and how it will transfer to the NFL.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    While I can see where you are coming from, no one said that the Pats had draft Graham as an OLB. Many scouts believe that Graham is more than capable of playing 3-4 DE in the NFL. In that case, considering that trading away Big Sey left a huge whole on the defensive line and with the added potential of losing Jarvis Green to free agency, I think it would benefical for the Pats to at least take a look at Graham and see if he actually can play DE in the 3-4 style defense. However, I do agree that BB should not take any risks with their 1st round pick.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from teegee. Show teegee's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    I say let's go with process of elimination. Despite some conventional wisdom, the Pats have the oline covered with 3 servicable tackles and with Connolly or last year's 4th round choice from Penn State filling in for Neal if he's gone. There's also 5 running backs so there's no great need there. With a resigned Bodden, (that is a big if), and Butler, they've got starting cbs. And there are 3 veteran safeties. So you are left with a replacement for Seymour, rushing outside linebacker, tight end, stud inside linebacker and 3rd wide receiver, not in that order. Can't really count on Mackenzie, Tate or Crable because of there injury histories. I'd go with the 3/4 end like Odrick 1st to enhance the dline. So you're left with 3 second round choices for 4 positions. If one or two aren't filled through free agency then perhaps trading a 2nd rounder for a lower 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder will do the job.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Rockdog,

    You can't say "you can't teach height" in regards to Tate to make a point, then completely ignore it with Graham.  You also can't dismiss projections on Tate (Steve Smith, not posted by me) then not care what postion Graham plays because he was "unblockable", "relentless animal" at the Senior Bowl.  I understand you like Graham (I like him as a player too), but you have to be consistent.


    TBC was a 7th round pick where the premium on height isn't the same.  I've posted on multiple threads about how they have no problem acquiring 6-2 OLB's in FA (AD, Burgess, Ninkovich etc.), but don't like to draft them high, he must want to see how they perform at the NFL level before acquiring them.  People were suprised about Mankins and Mayo because they were players not talked about in those slots which says more about the Kiper's of the world than it does about the players.  Both players possessed the size and skill set that BB prefers at their respective positions.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: And the New England Patriots Select... : While I can see where you are coming from, no one said that the Pats had draft Graham as an OLB. Many scouts believe that Graham is more than capable of playing 3-4 DE in the NFL. In that case, considering that trading away Big Sey left a huge whole on the defensive line and with the added potential of losing Jarvis Green to free agency, I think it would benefical for the Pats to at least take a look at Graham and see if he actually can play DE in the 3-4 style defense. However, I do agree that BB should not take any risks with their 1st round pick.
    Posted by Radionowhere228[/QUOTE]


    I haven't seen any reputable draft publications projecting Graham to DE in a 3-4 and especially not in NE.  He's 6-1 263, he'd get mauled as a 3-4 D-lineman.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from m1021us. Show m1021us's posts

    Re: And the New England Patriots Select...

    Pats will not waste a first rounder on a WR or RB.....
     

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