Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to G0DVERNMENT's comment:

    In response to zbellino's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't know that I'd be so negative about this trade. Richardson in Indy, vs Richardson in Cleveland, are two different players. One is 'the show' the other merely complements a passing attack. Plus, for a chunky little RB Richardson is actually a pretty gifted receiver out of the backfield, which suits what Indy does.

    That said, no RB is worth a first rounder, but I'd imagine that Indy probably thinks they won't be getting a very good first rounder because their division isn't terrific, and they may eke into the playoffs again.

     

     



    no RB? that's a bit of an extreme statement don't you think? AP isn't worth a 1st rounder? 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point. After kickers and punters, running backs are the least likely to merit a 1st round selection, imo.

    Only the historically elite can actually carry a ball club. And they take a beating.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:


    This is a great deal for Indy in my opinion. But not a total loss for Cleveland.

    People are talking as if he's been in the league for 4 years. The guy is 18 games into his career. As UD6 pointed out, CLE paid a lot of the money already in bonuses.

    They ended up with the 2012 #1 and #3 fking picks, are you kidding me! On draft day, had they traded their 2014 first rounder for Trent Richardson, people would have flipped out at the robbery...but 18 games later and it's not still a steal? Indy cashed in on an awful CLE situation.

    Luck, Hilton, Richardson. Wow. You're a fortunate fan UD6, what a core to have fun watching for the next 3+ seasons.

    This is one of those rare situations where both teams did well. Nobody else would have paid such a price. Only that price makes this deal happen in Week 3.



    That is my point. Cleveland blew it with Wheeden. So haning on to Richardson makes less sense than resetting the dial and grabbing another QB and some offensive or defensive linemen.

    This trade, potentially, helps both ballclubs. 

    Indy is putting young weapons around Luck, who can mature with and complement him. Cleveland is shuffling the deck again and getting a first rounder back for Richardson, who, like most 1st round running backs, really has less impact on the game than his selection would have indicated. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to NYC's comment:

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Another thought on this; maybe it's not just the Colt's first round pick that the Brown's have their eye on.

    The value of winning no games instead of, say, 4 games could set this franchise up for 10 more years.

    As far as giving up a number 3 pick overall; Sunk costs are never relevant.

    this could be "suck for Bridgewater"

     




     

    Bostate

    It is obvious you understand more than football with your statement "Sunk costs are never relevant". The mistakes many of us make in life is living too much in the past. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yo NYC,  it's obvious the present Brown's management understands the same concept.  They realize that the fact that he was an overall number three can not factor into their future plans.  I'm afraid that their part of the deal may be a conscious decision to tank the season to improve their own 1st round pick.  The Brown's may earn the number one overall pick and get their franchise QB.  Disturbing trend.  If this was baseball, the deal might be voided by the commissioner.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    Russ - you copped out - Wuss. 

    And if you read my previous posts you'll see that I said that I think this made sense for Cleveland, too.  It doesn't always have to be a zero sum game, but I can guarantee this.  Barring injury, this helps the Colts this year and hurts Cleveland this year.  Long term its anyone's guess. 

    And yes, I've read the quotes about a "lack of burst" and durability, but the guy's missed only one game, played with broken ribs, and played for a team where opposing defenses could stack the box without concern for exposing themselves to the passing game.  You've always been a guy who appreciated context.  There's some for you. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to FrankDooley's comment:

    Colts Place starting TE, DeWayne Allen, on IR. Ouch. Seccurity blanket for Luck.  Teams can now gameplan on Hilton and not worry about old man Wayne as much anymore.



    And the colts will throw to Richardson (51 catches last year) or Fleenor - 4 catches, 69 yds and a TD last week.  or Hayward-Bey.  Colts will be just fine. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?


    Kind of funny listening to Rusty talk about running backs when he didn't realize Curtis Martin caught footballs and is ready to place BJGE into the hall of fame everytime he stumbles over his feet for two yards. Just last year he said YPC is a meaningless statistic..he said that...no lie. And by the way, there are roughly 10000 guys who have played running back in the NFL....Curtis Marin has caught more passes than 9987 of them, not bad for a guy that can't catch.  

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

     played for a team where opposing defenses could stack the box without concern for exposing themselves to the passing game.  You've always been a guy who appreciated context.  There's some for you. 



    You might want to reassess that context.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

    Perfectly relaxed.  Happy to have amused you.  Btw, I wouldn't exactly call your response a ringing endorsement.  In fact, if one were to judge it, I think they'd say you were leaning to the side of a bad trade vs a good one for the colts.  No one said his stock was as hifh as it was on draft day.  No one thinks the pick the colts gave up will be the third pick in the draft, and the colts don't have the financial or cap responsibility of that pick.  As smart as you are, you' recognized this, I am sure.  So , given the obvious we have to take your response as a negative toward the colts.  i gave my 2 cents.  Happy Friday.



    I don't think it is obviously a steal.  It could be a good trade, but I think too many people are assuming that Richardson's stock is the same as it was on draft day and that the change of scenery will automatically boost his pedestrian ypc.  I question that assumption.  For someone who talks about context a lot you seem to have missed the post I was responding to.

     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     played for a team where opposing defenses could stack the box without concern for exposing themselves to the passing game.  You've always been a guy who appreciated context.  There's some for you. 

     



    You might want to reassess that context.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Didn't see a colt on that list.  I like richardsons chances.  Especially with healthy ribs.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to the-redsox-rule's comment:

    The only back worth being a first round pick would be Adrian Peterson. Backs have a short shelf life, especially guys who played at Alabama for Saban. Cleveland shouldn't have used the 3rd pick for him in the first place. I guess they've done what they had to do to put themselves in position to draft a franchise QB. They've packed it in for the season after week two.



    What I'm saying is that backs usually don't have the longer term impact than that of guys in other positions.. The rebuilding Browns used the 3rd pick in the draft on him, too high imo. I think he's a good fit for the Colts though, their first rounder isn't going to be the 3rd overall pick, and they already have a very good QB.

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    Hmmmm...Richardson could not stay on the field nor would I consider him worthy of a first. Colts got suckered and Cleveland is setting themselves up for a very deep QB draft next spring.



         The Colts were desperate. They had no running threat to speak of, and were becoming very one-dimensional on offense. Crazed owner Jim Irsay just raved at his team and coaches because QB Andrew Luck was getting hit too much. Richardson is pretty good at pass blocking, and is a good pass receiver, coming out of the backfield. But, the concern about him when he was drafted was that he was over-used at Alabama, and had some injury issues. In the pros thus far, he's had problems staying on the field. 

         For these reasons, it appears that Cleveland did very well to get a #1 draft pick for him...and that the Colts vastly overpaid. But, time will tell.

           

     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Hmmmm...Richardson could not stay on the field nor would I consider him worthy of a first. Colts got suckered and Cleveland is setting themselves up for a very deep QB draft next spring.

     



         The Colts were desperate. They had no running threat to speak of, and were becoming very one-dimensional on offense. Crazed owner Jim Irsay just raved at his team and coaches because QB Andrew Luck was getting hit too much. Richardson is pretty good at pass blocking, and is a good pass receiver, coming out of the backfield. But, the concern about him when he was drafted was that he was over-used at Alabama, and had some injury issues. In the pros thus far, he's had problems staying on the field. 

     

         For these reasons, it appears that Cleveland did very well to get a #1 draft pick for him...and that the Colts vastly overpaid. But, time will tell.

           

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wow don't mention him getting hurt or injury issues. Someone gets upset. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

         Here's how I think that most Colts' fans appear to view the deal: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/9/18/4746592/analyzing-the-colts-blockbuster-trade-for-trent-richardson 

         But then, there is this from Hall of Famer Jimmy Brown on Richardson, after seeing him perform in Cleveland during his rookie year: “I think the kid is a good working back, and if you’ve got everything else around him, he can play his role,” Brown told ESPN last year. “But when it comes to outstanding, I don’t see anything outstanding about him. It’s not said in a cruel manner. He’s very efficient, and that’s what you want.” http://www.indystar.com/article/20130919/SPORTS15/309190067/Bob-Kravitz-Trade-Trent-Richardson-re-energizes-Colts

         Yet, Indy Star columnist Bob Kravitz see it differently:

         "This is not a one-year fix,” Kravitz said. “This is a guy (Richardson) who’s still on his rookie contract and he’s going to be here a long time to come.”

         Kravitz also expects Richardson’s production to increase now that he won’t face an eight-man front on every play.

         “I think this guy has a chance to become a dynamic running back,” Kravitz said: http://feinstein.radio.cbssports.com/2013/09/19/bob-kravitz-we-were-all-floored-by-richardson-trade/

         Folks, the Colts still paying for busting out on RB Donald Brown, their #1 draft choice, and 27th selected player overall, in the 2009 draft. When Indy drafted him, Colts' fans were thrilled: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/4/27/855629/2009-indianapolis-colts-draft. But, how did that actually work out?: http://coltscast.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/donald-brown-is-not-a-good-football-player/  

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    This makes the Patriots' December 9 contest with Cleveland just a bit easier.  After that, Cleveland probably doesn't play New England for another three years, so I guess that we all can wish them luck with that first round pick.  Cleveland is already #28 on my list but I guess they can drop to #31 if they try hard enough, Washington being the #31 team.  Nobody on earth can beat mighty Jacksonville for that #1 draft pick. 

    The trade probably makes Houston's two games with Indianapolis a bit harder.  I have Indy with a 6.4 (a bit over 6-10) power rating and Houston with a 9.6 power rating.  New England probably won't play Indy until 2015.

    So let's hear it for the Monsters for once. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         Here's how I think that most Colts' fans appear to view the deal: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/9/18/4746592/analyzing-the-colts-blockbuster-trade-for-trent-richardson 

         But then, there is this from Hall of Famer Jimmy Brown on Richardson, after seeing him perform in Cleveland during his rookie year: “I think the kid is a good working back, and if you’ve got everything else around him, he can play his role,” Brown told ESPN last year. “But when it comes to outstanding, I don’t see anything outstanding about him. It’s not said in a cruel manner. He’s very efficient, and that’s what you want.” http://www.indystar.com/article/20130919/SPORTS15/309190067/Bob-Kravitz-Trade-Trent-Richardson-re-energizes-Colts

         Yet, Indy Star columnist Bob Kravitz see it differently:

         "This is not a one-year fix,” Kravitz said. “This is a guy (Richardson) who’s still on his rookie contract and he’s going to be here a long time to come.”

         Kravitz also expects Richardson’s production to increase now that he won’t face an eight-man front on every play.

         “I think this guy has a chance to become a dynamic running back,” Kravitz said: http://feinstein.radio.cbssports.com/2013/09/19/bob-kravitz-we-were-all-floored-by-richardson-trade/

         Folks, the Colts still paying for busting out on RB Donald Brown, their #1 draft choice, and 27th selected player overall, in the 2009 draft. When Indy drafted him, Colts' fans were thrilled: http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/4/27/855629/2009-indianapolis-colts-draft. But, how did that actually work out?: http://coltscast.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/donald-brown-is-not-a-good-football-player/  

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 


    How are they compounding the Brown "mistake"? 

    Did I miss Minnesota offering Matt Kalil for the colts 1st round pick next year?  Richardson is a significantly better body guard for Luck than Brown is in a number of ways.  He's a better pass blocker.  He's a better pass catcher, and he's a bigger running threat which causes teams to change the way they rush Luck, now. 

    I have no idea if Richardson will live up to the pick the colts have given, but he was not ineffective last year on a horrible team.  That gives him value as a known quantity unlike a draft pick - Laurence Maroney anyone?  The pick is next year's pick which means the colts have given up nothing this year.  Richardson's cap hit is not significant given that the colts are only responsible for about 30% of his total contract.  Financially, he's a steal.  Finally, 3 of the pats 3 starting offensive linemen were not picked in the first round.  2 were not drafted at all.  This is likely not dissimilar throughout the league.  What's that mean?  History has repeatedly shown that good offensive linemen can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one.  That cut and paste function really works. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 

     

     

    How are they compounding the Brown "mistake"? 

    RESPONSE: Are you finally admitting that Donald Brown is a BUST? Read my previous post above! 

    Did I miss Minnesota offering Matt Kalil for the colts 1st round pick next year?

    RESPONSE: I've been out of town. Did I miss that? Do you have a cite? When did the Vikings offer to trade their 2nd year, pro-bowl LT Kalil, to the Colts for Indy's #1 draft choice? Or...are you merely doing what you always do...say anything to try to buttress your silly arguments?

    Richardson is a significantly better body guard for Luck than Brown is in a number of ways.  He's a better pass blocker.  He's a better pass catcher, and he's a bigger running threat which causes teams to change the way they rush Luck, now. 

    RESPONSE: The above is one of the silliest statements that you have ever made here...and that's saying something. Are you seriously going to argue that a good-decent RB is as good a pass protector for a QB as a stud LT? LOL!!!

    I have no idea if Richardson will live up to the pick the colts have given, but he was not ineffective last year on a horrible team.

    RESPONSE: He was not all that effective, either. Hall of Fame RB Jim Brown has referred to him as "ordinary". Based on what I've seen of Richardson in Cleveland, I tend to agree. Like other highly decorated Alabama RBs, Mark Ingram and Eddie Lacey, Richardson appears to be a product of the Nick Saban system, who flourished running behind the best OL in college football. 

    That gives him value as a known quantity unlike a draft pick - Laurence Maroney anyone?

    RESPONSE: LOL!!! What does Maroney have to do with this conversation? You've been around here long enough to know that I have bashed BB for his poor drafts, including the selection of Maroney.

    The pick is next year's pick which means the colts have given up nothing this year.

    RESPONSE: Ridiculous! Who is to say that the Colts are a playoff team this year? They play a tougher schedule than last years' walk in the park, their best offensive weapon is a 35 year old WR, they have a below average OL, and their defense is far from stellar.

    The (1-1) after two home games Colts must still play the Texans twice, the NFC West teams, the Broncos, Kansas City, and San Diego in San Diego. Good luck, son.  

    Richardson's cap hit is not significant given that the colts are only responsible for about 30% of his total contract.  Financially, he's a steal.

    RESPONSE If he produces as you hope he will, than yes, financially, it's an okay move. But, if he's "ordinary", or continues down the injury prone path, he's a waste of cap space, and a waste of a valuable #1 draft choice.

    Finally, 3 of the pats 3 starting offensive linemen were not picked in the first round.  2 were not drafted at all.

    RESPONSE: Pleeeasssee. Their LT was a #1 pick in 2011, their RT was the 58th overall pick in the 2009 draft, and their LG was a #1 pick in 2005. Their starting RG and OC were found in "the scrap heap". But, history has shown that centers and guards, like RBs, can be found in later rounds. Tackles...rarely.

    This is likely not dissimilar throughout the league.  What's that mean?  History has repeatedly shown that good offensive linemen can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one.  That cut and paste function really works. 

    RESPONSE: Man...you are really hoping that Richardson pulls through. Good luck with that, Doggie-dooo. LOL!!!




     

     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to UD6's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         The Colts now are compounding the Brown mistake by spending yet another #1 draft choice on a RB...when a top flight body guard for Andrew Luck should be their top priority. History has repeatedly shown that good RBs can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one. 

     

     

    How are they compounding the Brown "mistake"? 

    RESPONSE: Are you finally admitting that Donald Brown is a BUST? Read my previous post above! 

    TP - how come you didn't answer my question?  Tell you what, lets do this in a normal kind of a discourse.  If I ask a question, then you answer it.  If you have questions subsequently, then I answer them. 

     

    Did I miss Minnesota offering Matt Kalil for the colts 1st round pick next year?

    RESPONSE: I've been out of town. Did I miss that? Do you have a cite? When did the Vikings offer to trade their 2nd year, pro-bowl LT Kalil, to the Colts for Indy's #1 draft choice? Or...are you merely doing what you always do...say anything to try to buttress your silly arguments?

     

    Richardson is a significantly better body guard for Luck than Brown is in a number of ways.  He's a better pass blocker.  He's a better pass catcher, and he's a bigger running threat which causes teams to change the way they rush Luck, now. 

    RESPONSE: The above is one of the silliest statements that you have ever made here...and that's saying something. Are you seriously going to argue that a good-decent RB is as good a pass protector for a QB as a stud LT? LOL!!!

    Where did I say that a good RB is a better pass protector than a good LT?  The colts already have a good LT.  Richardson is a better pass protector, runner, and pass catcher - all which help Luck - than any other back they have.  Wake up Texas Pat.   

     

    I have no idea if Richardson will live up to the pick the colts have given, but he was not ineffective last year on a horrible team.

    RESPONSE: He was not all that effective, either. Hall of Fame RB Jim Brown has referred to him as "ordinary". Based on what I've seen of Richardson in Cleveland, I tend to agree. Like other highly decorated Alabama RBs, Mark Ingram and Eddie Lacey, Richardson appears to be a product of the Nick Saban system, who flourished running behind the best OL in college football. 

    What do you expect when you have a crappy team?  Jim Brown is one voice.  Superbowl winning coaches and Front Office executives have said the Colts got a heckuva player.  Time will tell.  Eddie Lacey is a rookie.  Why not give him an opportunity before labeling him?  Oops- that's your MO.  Never mind. 

    That gives him value as a known quantity unlike a draft pick - Laurence Maroney anyone?

    RESPONSE: LOL!!! What does Maroney have to do with this conversation? You've been around here long enough to know that I have bashed BB for his poor drafts, including the selection of Maroney.

    Well, if you quit breaking up paragraphs you might understand the context.  The context is that draft picks are unknown quantities and some fail, like Maroney.  Since Richardson has been in the league a year, people have an idea of what he can do, and some think he can be great.  The colts gave up a future pick which is no guarantee that the player taken will perform. 

    The pick is next year's pick which means the colts have given up nothing this year.

    RESPONSE: Ridiculous! Who is to say that the Colts are a playoff team this year? They play a tougher schedule than last years' walk in the park, their best offensive weapon is a 35 year old WR, they have a below average OL, and their defense is far from stellar.

    Where in my comment did I say they were making the playoffs?  I have no idea how you came up with that thought based on me saying the colts have given up nothing this year.  Come on Tex. You are smarter than that...

    aren't you?

    The (1-1) after two home games Colts must still play the Texans twice, the NFC West teams, the Broncos, Kansas City, and San Diego in San Diego. Good luck, son.  

    Thanks.  Yeah they are going to need help.  They've already got Luck.  Divine intervention would be nice. 

    Richardson's cap hit is not significant given that the colts are only responsible for about 30% of his total contract.  Financially, he's a steal.

    RESPONSE If he produces as you hope he will, than yes, financially, it's an okay move. But, if he's "ordinary", or continues down the injury prone path, he's a waste of cap space, and a waste of a valuable #1 draft choice.

    Financially its a great move even if he's just a 1000 yd rusher and 400 yd pass catcher with 11 TD's.  Broken ribs are not pulled hamstrings. 

    Finally, 3 of the pats 3 starting offensive linemen were not picked in the first round.  2 were not drafted at all.

    RESPONSE: Pleeeasssee. Their LT was a #1 pick in 2011, their RT was the 58th overall pick in the 2009 draft, and their LG was a #1 pick in 2005. Their starting RG and OC were found in "the scrap heap". But, history has shown that centers and guards, like RBs, can be found in later rounds. Tackles...rarely.

    Thanks for agreeing with my comment.  By the way the colts have a 1st round left tackle.  So that box of yours has already been checked. 

    This is likely not dissimilar throughout the league.  What's that mean?  History has repeatedly shown that good offensive linemen can be acquired much later in drafts, than in round one.  That cut and paste function really works. 

    RESPONSE: Man...you are really hoping that Richardson pulls through. Good luck with that, Doggie-dooo. LOL!!!

    Why would I hope otherwise TP?  I am a Colts fan.

     




     
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    Re: Any speculation on the Monster Colts trade?


    Trent Richardson Touchdown!!!

     
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