Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    I keep hearing that the 2011 Giants are better than their 2007 version and that the Patriots are worse. I disagree. Talent was down this season. Even the top tier teams had major flaws. This 2011 Giants team is good but they are not better than that 2007 Giants team.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    2007 is over.  All that matters is that THIS YEAR the Patriots win.  That old loss can't be rewon, but losing to them twice would be really really bad.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from lordlim. Show lordlim's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Hello???  The answer is pretty obvious...no, because they will not win the Super Bowl this year.  GAR-RON-TEED!!!



    In Response to Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]I keep hearing that the 2011 Giants are better than their 2007 version and that the Patriots are worse. I disagree. Talent was down this season. Even the top tier teams had major flaws. This 2011 Giants team is good but they are not better than that 2007 Giants team.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Yes...they are.  And in order to be able to admit it in a clear & honest way, you DO also need to see where & how The Pats are now different (than '07).  NY IS more talented...  It's a pianful recognition, but in terms of purely defined "talent-wise"...yeup, they are.  Eli IS a much better QB than any and every other year thus far in his creer (he and he alone, with no other complimentary factors yet involved).  He IS more accurate (by far), and he doesn't make NEARLY as many of the purely id!#tic mind-boggling mistakes which you used to be able to count on him doing at least twice in EVERY single game, in some full-momentum shift against NY in order to force a play too much...  His wideouts (seperate from his own betterment) ARE crazy better talented & cmplete: Nicks, Manningham, Cruz (isn't there even another one too?!?).  NY's Defense also IS...just a bit more talented.  It just is people...

    But relate this, to where NE is 2007 vs. 2012.  NE is younger.  Their corp of team on-field leaders in 2007, were by almost every single one: Hovering around the age of being 40 years old (or above-Seau): Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Tedy Buschi, Junior Seau, Kevin Faulk, Randy Moss...  Just look at that collection of senior citizens (yea...and pro bowlers).  But at 40 years old!?!  Even their youth was early-mid 30 year olds: Stephen Neal, Matt Light, Richard Seymour (prior to his total rebirth in Oakland), Troy Brown, Jarvis Green, Kyle Brady, Tom Brady, Larry Izzo, Adalius Thomas, Rosevelt Colvin...  Only a handful were actually ONLY 30 years old (just in the last column, too).  That is really, just pathetically old for NFL terms...(and I'm just talkin key components alone, not even any other Pats guys).  NE IS much younger (that means-Less tired, Less injured, More physical, and Faster...By and Large).  They just LOOKED worn out even at the end of Regular Season in 2007.

    NE's MUCH, much deeper.  And this is what noone fully accounts for, and everything it means (and it offers up alot).  By this, I mean: Weigh the fact of The NY Giants having greater & better specific forms of talent right now...Verses what NE has philosophically changed & altered now, personell-wise:  NE is deeper in quality (just not what people fix their fcus solely on-"Elite Quality"), NE is more thoroughand less 1 dimensional on Offense and Defense: (Offense-No running game, and open spread offense pass to 2 targets-Moss or Welker...there'ya go=90% of every play's success or failure/Defense-No tackling Asante Samuel at CB, 40 year old Harrison as Safety, 1 outside linebacker in Vrabel, and a weak Ty Warren, Seymour pre-oakland rebirth & after 4(!) injury destroyed seasons, and VW prior to fully coming into his own... After that?  VERY worrisome, big & exploitable large gaps in positional talent)...

    NY 2012 verses NY 2007=NY 2012 has greater purely and specifically skilled talent.  
    NE 2012 verses NE 2007=NE 2012 is younger, faster, more physical, deeper in total depth of talent numbers-wise, more thorough in positional quality of base talent, healthier & less injured, less flawed and far less 1 dimensional.
       
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]Yes...they are.  And in order to be able to admit it in a clear & honest way, you DO also need to see where & how The Pats are now different (than '07).  NY IS more talented...  It's a pianful recognition, but in terms of purely defined "talent-wise"...yeup, they are.  Eli IS a much better QB than any and every other year thus far in his creer (he and he alone, with no other complimentary factors yet involved).  He IS more accurate (by far), and he doesn't make NEARLY as many of the purely id!#tic mind-boggling mistakes which you used to be able to count on him doing at least twice in EVERY single game, in some full-momentum shift against NY in order to force a play too much...  His wideouts (seperate from his own betterment) ARE crazy better talented & cmplete: Nicks, Manningham, Cruz (isn't there even another one too?!?).  NY's Defense also IS...just a bit more talented.  It just is people... But relate this, to where NE is 2007 vs. 2012.  NE is younger.  Their corp of team on-field leaders in 2007, were by almost every single one: Hovering around the age of being 40 years old (or above-Seau): Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Tedy Buschi, Junior Seau, Kevin Faulk, Randy Moss...  Just look at that collection of senior citizens (yea...and pro bowlers).  But at 40 years old!?!  Even their youth was early-mid 30 year olds: Stephen Neal, Matt Light, Richard Seymour (prior to his total rebirth in Oakland), Troy Brown, Jarvis Green, Kyle Brady, Tom Brady, Larry Izzo, Adalius Thomas, Rosevelt Colvin...  Only a handful were actually ONLY 30 years old (just in the last column, too).  That is really, just pathetically old for NFL terms...(and I'm just talkin key components alone, not even any other Pats guys).  NE IS much younger (that means-Less tired, Less injured, More physical, and Faster...By and Large).  They just LOOKED worn out even at the end of Regular Season in 2007. NE's MUCH, much deeper.  And this is what noone fully accounts for, and everything it means (and it offers up alot).  By this, I mean: Weigh the fact of The NY Giants having greater & better specific forms of talent right now...Verses what NE has philosophically changed & altered now, personell-wise:  NE is deeper in quality (just not what people fix their fcus solely on-"Elite Quality"), NE is more thoroughand less 1 dimensional on Offense and Defense: (Offense-No running game, and open spread offense pass to 2 targets-Moss or Welker...there'ya go=90% of every play's success or failure/Defense-No tackling Asante Samuel at CB, 40 year old Harrison as Safety, 1 outside linebacker in Vrabel, and a weak Ty Warren, Seymour pre-oakland rebirth & after 4(!) injury destroyed seasons, and VW prior to fully coming into his own... After that?  VERY worrisome, big & exploitable large gaps in positional talent)... NY 2012 verses NY 2007=NY 2012 has greater purely and specifically skilled talent.   NE 2012 verses NE 2007=NE 2012 is younger, faster, more physical, deeper in total depth of talent numbers-wise, more thorough in positional quality of base talent, healthier & less injured, less flawed and far less 1 dimensional.    
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]


    Good post Laz.  I think people fail to recognize that both the 2006 and 2007 teams suffered from old Ds that could tire by game's end.  I'd argue that the defensive players were more talented in 2006 and 2007 than they are now, but were prone to getting worn out late in the game. I'm not sure I'd agree the 2007 offense was less diverse than the current--I think offensive diversity (and depth) has been an issue for the Pats for a while.  What I do think helps us a ton this year on offense is the emergence of the two TEs who allow us to make quick passes in the shorter part of the field.  In 2007, we relied very heavily on the long ball to Moss and the short ball to Welker (or Watson or Faulk)  The ferocious Giants pass rush pretty much prevented long passes in 2007--and we didn't have enough underneath, relying so heavily on Welker.  Now, with Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker all working close up, we have a better offense to counter the pass rush.  If we can get a back involved in the passing game (Faulk? Polite? Maybe Woodhead?) and get something on the edges with Branch (and maybe Ocho), we'll be much more effective, I think, than we were 2007.  I'd still like more diversity on this team--better edge/deep receivers and better backs--but the TEs give us something very special that should help a lot against the Giants. 

      

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    The current Giants squad may not be better, but it's hard to find a team playing better right now.  They've taken out the best teams in the NFC, and despite Manning getting beaten up all over the field in SF, he had a good game.  Eli Manning is a better QB today no doubt. 

    The Giants have better WRs and their RBs are pretty good.    Their defense still has a fearsome pass rush but they are vulnerable in other areas, and hopefully the Patriots can expose them by running the ball and/or countering their pass rush with screens and draws.  

    I think this game will be all it's advertised to be, and there will be some points on the board by both teams.  It will come down to turnovers, field position and possibly the last possession.     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    I'm with Laz...good post.  They are better this time around.  I think they are younger too.  Both on the Dline, the LB core, and in the secondary.  They had no one in that secondary in 2007.  The problem was, their DLine covered it up.  It's easy to cover for about 2 seconds or even less.

    Offensively the WR corp is younger, TE about the same, and a bit longer in the tooth on the O-Line. 
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    I'd say they are very close to 2007 in talent, so close it does not matter too much. The Pats are a much different team as we all know, one that has more upside from their season norm than the 2007 Pats.

    NY is a team that has another gear that is seldom used. When it is they can beat anyone.

    Problem for them is they know it, and this can make them cocky and take things for granted.

    The Pats are the mirror image, they seldom lose to teams they are supposed to beat. Fairly even keeled.

    This game is the least predictable game for me all season but I do have the feeling the PAts are psychologically underdogs as percieved from BOTH teams.. That will serve them well.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from thejoshuatree28. Show thejoshuatree28's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]  The Giants front 7 won that SB, plain and simple. 
    Posted by RustyGriswold[/QUOTE]
     I have said since the superbowl one of their defenders deserves that MVP not Eli
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Even.  A little better on O, not quite as good on D.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    I'm going with no on this one.

    Eli is an improved QB and his receivers are upgraded there is no question about that.

    Their OL has taken a hit though and can't give Eli the same amount of time they did in 07'. The OL also has performed extremely poorly in the running game. This was one big reason they won in 07' was because they kept the ball out of Brady's hands with effective running. This year they are ranked 32nd in the running game

    Speaking of running game, it's the same as in 07' only older. Bradshaw has had a foot issue all year which hurts considering he's a north south runner. Without being able to effectively plant that foot for leverage and power he gets tackled a lot easier. Jacobs is still Jacobs but he doesn't make the same cuts and isn't as explosive this year.

    On DL that might be a wash. Osi, Tuck, and Strahan were beasts that season as is JPP and Tuck this season.

    The LB core I would rather have the 07' LB core for the Giants.

    The DB's is no question the 07' was better with Madison, Wilson, Ross was even better that season.

    Overall I would say the Giants had a better D in 07' and a much better running game and OL. Truthfully the only thing improved imo is the receiving core and Eli's performance
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]I'm going with no on this one. Eli is an improved QB and his receivers are upgraded there is no question about that. Their OL has taken a hit though and can't give Eli the same amount of time they did in 07'. The OL also has performed extremely poorly in the running game. This was one big reason they won in 07' was because they kept the ball out of Brady's hands with effective running. This year they are ranked 32nd in the running game Speaking of running game, it's the same as in 07' only older. Bradshaw has had a foot issue all year which hurts considering he's a north south runner. Without being able to effectively plant that foot for leverage and power he gets tackled a lot easier. Jacobs is still Jacobs but he doesn't make the same cuts and isn't as explosive this year. On DL that might be a wash. Osi, Tuck, and Strahan were beasts that season as is JPP and Tuck this season. The LB core I would rather have the 07' LB core for the Giants. The DB's is no question the 07' was better with Madison, Wilson, Ross was even better that season. Overall I would say the Giants had a better D in 07' and a much better running game and OL. Truthfully the only thing improved imo is the receiving core and Eli's performance
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Good points.

    I would like to add that I think Coughlin is a better coach today.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    I think Eli is a lot better. In 2007, their passing attack was basically just him throwing it up and hoping Plax could come down with it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team? : Good points. I would like to add that I think Coughlin is a better coach today.
    Posted by chrisakawoody[/QUOTE]

    Chris, looking at your animation. Do you know how many Raiders fans have a violent reaction to that short clip?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    The O-line is not better, especially in run blocking, that seems to be a fact that is getting over-looked.  This is an O-line that was largely rebuilt in the off-season and they really haven't played all that well all year, as evidenced by the poor rushing stats.  Some of that has to do with Bradshaw not being healthy but I'd say the O-line is an area where the Pats have a clear advantage.

    I think on D they are largely the same but maybe a little better in the Secondary, I really don't remember the 2007 DB's that well.  The LB group is very ordinary.

    Eli is better than he was 4 years ago.

    The RB's are the same 2 guys.

    The WR corps has completely turned over but I don't know that Nicks, Cruz, Manningham is better than Plax, Toomer, Smith but a more mature Eli makes them better I suppose. 

    Really, it doesn't matter all that much since both teams are largely different than 4 years ago.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mighty2012. Show mighty2012's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Their 2007 team won the Super Bowl, their 2011 team will not.  Therefore the 2007 team was better.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisakawoody. Show chrisakawoody's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team? : Chris, looking at your animation. Do you know how many Raiders fans have a violent reaction to that short clip?
    Posted by patsbandwagonsince76[/QUOTE]

    My one and on ly time calling into WEEI, the guy answering told me that back then the rules were different and it was not roughing the passer.  That was going to be my point of the call, which was the Friday before the AFCC (and the anniversary of the the Pats-Raiders game). SO I hung up, uncertain.

    Rusty or Shennanigan, do you guys remember the rules for roughing the passer then?  I know facemask rules have changed and become more strict.  Back then, you could hit the mask, but would have to let go immediately if your fingers snagged the grill.  But I thought a blow to the head was still roughing the QB in 2001. Anybody?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ytsejamer1. Show Ytsejamer1's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    2007 Giants DBs better?  I'm not sure...i mean come on...Sam Madison?  He was in a wheelchair at that point.  :) 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cosmo14. Show cosmo14's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Yes, they are much better. They will destroy the Patriots this time.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    There are games this season where the Giants looked much, much better than their 07 team.

    But there are just as many games this season where the Giants looked like a d-league squad.  Two losses to the Skins.  One loss to Seattle (one of the lowest points in recent Giants' fans memories).  One loss to Philly.  None of those are even remotely talented NFL teams. 

    If the Pats get the Giants team that got them to the playoffs, the Pats are in trouble.  If the Pats get the Giants team that was folding early in the season, NY will riot as the Pats walk away with the win.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Giants secondary was slightly better in '07

    The O-line was def better in '07

    The D-line was the same... JPP is younger and better than Strahan was then but I think Osi/Tuck have gotten weaker

    WR's are better now, but the way Burress was playing that year he was the best of the 5 main WR's in the discussion... but clearly you take Cruz/Nicks over Toomer/Hixon/Tyree.

    Rb's were the same... Jacobs was a younger more dominant runner then but its evened out by Bradshaw being young then and more sure of himself and developed now.

    Eli was starting his prime then, age 26, in the middle of it now at age 30, I'm sure he's more confident and slightly better, but he was playing at such an elite level that '07 postseason you can't really claim he is better in the way you could, say, claim that Brady got better from 01 to 03/04 and has possibly gotten a little worse post knee injury as he creeps towards age 35, which is when the slide start

    Giants linebackers in '07 were better

    The TE's in '07 were better

    I'd say the 2007 Giants were a better team
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Statistically the Giants gave up more points on D in 07, not this season.

    So while they may have more talented players at certain spots now, their D is better this season and that's the part that should cause concern.

    Any way you slice it, their D gave fewer points this season.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: Are the Giants better than their 2007 team?

    Once more for my objective piece of mind...  Where again, was NY far more talented in 2007 collectively by position?

    2012 Defense
    D-Line: Justin Tuck/Dave Tollefson, Rocky Bernard/Linval Joseph, Chris Canty, Jason Pierre-Paul/Osi Umenyiora
    LB: Mike Bolley, Chase Blackburn/Greg Jones, Mathias Kiwanuka
    Secondary: CB=Carlos Webster/Prince Amukamara, Aaron Ross/Will Blackmon//Safety=Antrell Rolle/Deon Grant, Kenny Phillips/Tyler Sash.

    2012 Offense
    O-Line: David Diehl/Tony Ugoh, Kevin Boothe/Mitch Petrus, David Baas/Jim Cordle, Chris Snee, Kevin McKenzie/James Brewer
    TE: Jack Ballard/Travis Beckum/Bear Pascoe
    WR: Victor Cruz, Mario Manningham, Hakeem Nicks, Ramses Barden (Jerrel Jernigan & Devin Thomas-young bench guys).
    RB: Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs (Da'Rel Scott & DJ Ware the younger bench guys).
    QB: Eli Manning


    ...some of you guys (*cough-political leanings) have started to seriously alter & angle your formerly & once, far more objective viewpoints in many other areas.  I know this ain't gonna change you (b/c you're too far gone imo), but at least just Recognize.....
      
     

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