Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, what do you think of the Pats' recent coordinators on both offense and defense?  How much impact do you think they have (or did have)?  And do you think they are (or were) good or bad.  I'd be interested in your perspective because if I remember right you have some firsthand knowledge of the team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, BB dictates defensive philosophy the Pats will play. For instance we know he doesn't like to overload zones, and he doesn't like to blitz often. Petricia will take this philosophy and each game will scheme a plan specifically designed against the opposing team. So Petricia is scheming the game plan, within BB' s desired philosophy. This differs from the Ryan's defensive philosophy of " this is the way we play(over loading zones and pressure) and try to stop us". It worked for Rex when Revis and Cro were on top of their game  allowing for overloaded zones. It did not work for Rob when he didn't have CB coverage. 

    Contrary to this board, I thought both OB and McD are outstanding. The offense is always prepared and makes few mental mistakes. If you make mental mistakes, you don't play(Chad Johnson). The physical mistakes ( mostly Oline) are highly stressed during the week and coached vigorously during the week for improvement. I also think that 50% of the actual offensive plays that are run, are check offs from Brady. So while McD and OB are criticized for plays called or not called, it is actually Brady that either ran or didn't the play called. Of course, Brady has been very successful in his play calling and reading what the defense will give. 

    A lot has been made of Brady's favorite receiver is the one who is open. That is baloney. Brady's first, second and third reads are on the receivers he KNOWS will be in the right place in the route. Even if covered like a blanket, Brady still throws the ball, usually back shoulder, knowing the receiver is in the right place to make a play on the ball. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting. I will disagree with some of it. When this defense takes away what a team likes to do best (at least when they used to be able to do that)..wouldn't they load a zone then? I mean if they're taking away a Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald they're not doing this playing straight honest zone defense, right?

    And as far as Brady just going to the guy that will be open in his 1,2,3, progressions...think about that for a second. Most QB's can't do that. Bledsoe had two progressions for much of his career, it was Ben Coates (or Glenn) and if that first guy wasn't open he'd release a very ugly dump off pass to a fullback or runner in the flat (and there was a time where he couldn't hit that either). And I loved Bledsoe - great great arm - no one could throw a 20 yard out like him, but the guy (and a lot of guys) can't see most of the field. Everyone talks about how great Andrew Luck is going to be (and he may), but the guy locks onto one guy most of the play. Conversly RG3 doesn't , he actually looks over the field and throws to the open guy. I understand what you are saying about throwing it to the open guy is baloney, but my point is going through 3 progressions is a big deal in this league. A really big deal.

    As far as this back shoulder throw that is the rage now with Brady and others, I think it has to do with the guy he is throwing that to (LLyod). Llyod can't get open deep - he runs a 4.6 on a good day - but he has so many little things he does with varying his speed and stopping his feet that the back shoulder throw may be part of a design with him. The only other guy I ever saw Brady do that with once in a while was Faulk. Normally I don't think Brady will intentionally throw it to a covered guy, except maybe for Gronk because he will catch it anyways.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Posters here and most Pat's fans in general (including myself) don't like Belichick's soft zone, 4 man front defense.  They blame the players for the yards given up, but it is a result of the scheme.  This defense needs turnovers to win, it goads the opposing QB into making a mistake and asks our players to strip the ball, force fumbles from opposing runners.  As long as our offense scores more than their offense it won't be a problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, once again, it's up to the O to win games? Awesome!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, what do you think of the Pats' recent coordinators on both offense and defense?  How much impact do you think they have (or did have)?  And do you think they are (or were) good or bad.  I'd be interested in your perspective because if I remember right you have some firsthand knowledge of the team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, BB dictates defensive philosophy the Pats will play. For instance we know he doesn't like to overload zones, and he doesn't like to blitz often. Petricia will take this philosophy and each game will scheme a plan specifically designed against the opposing team. So Petricia is scheming the game plan, within BB' s desired philosophy. This differs from the Ryan's defensive philosophy of " this is the way we play(over loading zones and pressure) and try to stop us". It worked for Rex when Revis and Cro were on top of their game  allowing for overloaded zones. It did not work for Rob when he didn't have CB coverage. 

    Contrary to this board, I thought both OB and McD are outstanding. The offense is always prepared and makes few mental mistakes. If you make mental mistakes, you don't play(Chad Johnson). The physical mistakes ( mostly Oline) are highly stressed during the week and coached vigorously during the week for improvement. I also think that 50% of the actual offensive plays that are run, are check offs from Brady. So while McD and OB are criticized for plays called or not called, it is actually Brady that either ran or didn't the play called. Of course, Brady has been very successful in his play calling and reading what the defense will give. 

    A lot has been made of Brady's favorite receiver is the one who is open. That is baloney. Brady's first, second and third reads are on the receivers he KNOWS will be in the right place in the route. Even if covered like a blanket, Brady still throws the ball, usually back shoulder, knowing the receiver is in the right place to make a play on the ball. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Interesting. I will disagree with some of it. When this defense takes away what a team likes to do best (at least when they used to be able to do that)..wouldn't they load a zone then? I mean if they're taking away a Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald they're not doing this playing straight honest zone defense, right?

    And as far as Brady just going to the guy that will be open in his 1,2,3, progressions...think about that for a second. Most QB's can't do that. Bledsoe had two progressions for much of his career, it was Ben Coates (or Glenn) and if that first guy wasn't open he'd release a very ugly dump off pass to a fullback or runner in the flat (and there was a time where he couldn't hit that either). And I loved Bledsoe - great great arm - no one could throw a 20 yard out like him, but the guy (and a lot of guys) can't see most of the field. Everyone talks about how great Andrew Luck is going to be (and he may), but the guy locks onto one guy most of the play. Conversly RG3 doesn't , he actually looks over the field and throws to the open guy. I understand what you are saying about throwing it to the open guy is baloney, but my point is going through 3 progressions is a big deal in this league. A really big deal.

    As far as this back shoulder throw that is the rage now with Brady and others, I think it has to do with the guy he is throwing that to (LLyod). Llyod can't get open deep - he runs a 4.6 on a good day - but he has so many little things he does with varying his speed and stopping his feet that the back shoulder throw may be part of a design with him. The only other guy I ever saw Brady do that with once in a while was Faulk. Normally I don't think Brady will intentionally throw it to a covered guy, except maybe for Gronk because he will catch it anyways.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, they played mostly a soft cover 2 on Fitz. On the back end they prefer to play safe, and not give up the behind the safety plays. Unfortunately, the safeties are not always in the right position to abide to this philosophy.

    Usually over loading a zone refers to a defensive rushing lane. The Jets and Cowboys like to put 3 on 2 rush men, or 2 on 1 rush men, overloading one side of the o line to pressure the qb. The Pats very rarely do this, prefering to play the numbers. The Pats feel the more offensive snaps a team has, the more they will turn it over, hence, the bend but do not break term.

    This defense is deemed to be playing well based on turn overs, not yards allowed. They seem to be content to sit back and let ththe her team make a mistake, with the more plays the other team runs, the more apt they are to a mistake.

    Agreed on Brady. His 2 best attributes are seeing the field and accuracy.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Posters here and most Pat's fans in general (including myself) don't like Belichick's soft zone, 4 man front defense.  They blame the players for the yards given up, but it is a result of the scheme.  This defense needs turnovers to win, it goads the opposing QB into making a mistake and asks our players to strip the ball, force fumbles from opposing runners.  As long as our offense scores more than their offense it won't be a problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, once again, it's up to the O to win games? Awesome!

    [/QUOTE]


    I could have sworn the defense got the ball back in the 4th qtr last Sunday after the offense turned it over. Don't say they don't contribute.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to glenr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Posters here and most Pat's fans in general (including myself) don't like Belichick's soft zone, 4 man front defense.  They blame the players for the yards given up, but it is a result of the scheme.  This defense needs turnovers to win, it goads the opposing QB into making a mistake and asks our players to strip the ball, force fumbles from opposing runners.  As long as our offense scores more than their offense it won't be a problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    So, once again, it's up to the O to win games? Awesome!

    [/QUOTE]


    I could have sworn the defense got the ball back in the 4th qtr last Sunday after the offense turned it over. Don't say they don't contribute.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why, yes they did but they also allowed Gomer to score 2 TD's in 4 1/2 minutes and that's the point.

    A D that is "built" to capitolize on TO's is not a recipe for success.  They have to be able to stop 3rd down conversions without that.  We all know what happenes if they don't get the To's and it aint pretty.  Their 3rd down conversion rate is as poor as it's been in the past 3 years. Pics are great but it can't be their only strength.

    They also gave up the lead twice in the Balt game while the O scored 30.

    Wozzy said they will win games as long as the O scores more than the opposition????

    At present, that means the O has to score 24 to win and sometimes that is not enough.  The Seahawks O only has to score 15 to win.  The 49's only have to score 14 to win.  See the problem?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Go run the Patriots record when they score less than 24 points. I think they've come away with two or three wins that way in the last four or five seasons. 

    No. I have zero faith this defense can hold a team to less than 20 if the offense isn't scoring 24 or more. They hold them lower in big time blowouts where the other team is forced to pass. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Bump.

    Case in point. Unless you irrationally expect the Pats' offense to always score 30++ against even the best defenses in the NFL (Seattle, Baltimore, for instance) you are going to be disappointed. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Go run the Patriots record when they score less than 24 points. I think they've come away with two or three wins that way in the last four or five seasons. 

    No. I have zero faith this defense can hold a team to less than 20 if the offense isn't scoring 24 or more. They hold them lower in big time blowouts where the other team is forced to pass. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Bump.

    Case in point. Unless you irrationally expect the Pats' offense to always score 30++ against even the best defenses in the NFL (Seattle, Baltimore, for instance) you are going to be disappointed. 

    [/QUOTE]


    +1

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Patricia is a really bright guy and great football mind. He is more in charge of the defense than given credit for. However, the defensive style is going to be BB decision, with the schemes and play calling designed by Patricia to fit within BB's desired style. The player decisions are closer than you think. 60-40 in BB's final call.

    the coaches as a group discuss personnel decisions, but the draft and free agency are done without coach final say, it is all on BB.

    [/QUOTE]

    rkarp, what do you think of the Pats' recent coordinators on both offense and defense?  How much impact do you think they have (or did have)?  And do you think they are (or were) good or bad.  I'd be interested in your perspective because if I remember right you have some firsthand knowledge of the team. 

    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, BB dictates defensive philosophy the Pats will play. For instance we know he doesn't like to overload zones, and he doesn't like to blitz often. Petricia will take this philosophy and each game will scheme a plan specifically designed against the opposing team. So Petricia is scheming the game plan, within BB' s desired philosophy. This differs from the Ryan's defensive philosophy of " this is the way we play(over loading zones and pressure) and try to stop us". It worked for Rex when Revis and Cro were on top of their game  allowing for overloaded zones. It did not work for Rob when he didn't have CB coverage. 

    Contrary to this board, I thought both OB and McD are outstanding. The offense is always prepared and makes few mental mistakes. If you make mental mistakes, you don't play(Chad Johnson). The physical mistakes ( mostly Oline) are highly stressed during the week and coached vigorously during the week for improvement. I also think that 50% of the actual offensive plays that are run, are check offs from Brady. So while McD and OB are criticized for plays called or not called, it is actually Brady that either ran or didn't the play called. Of course, Brady has been very successful in his play calling and reading what the defense will give. 

    A lot has been made of Brady's favorite receiver is the one who is open. That is baloney. Brady's first, second and third reads are on the receivers he KNOWS will be in the right place in the route. Even if covered like a blanket, Brady still throws the ball, usually back shoulder, knowing the receiver is in the right place to make a play on the ball. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks rkarp. Good post and good comments.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    Our defensive scheme is a good one and it doesn't rely on stopping people in betwwen the 20s it relies on big plays and we didn't make them yesterday, it wasn't the game plan. Crennel isn't the answer, thats just NE any sport fan in you. When ever in any local sport when someone is having a bad spell fans want somebody from the past to be brought back

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Assessment of Matt Patricia as Defensive Coordinator...

    But the "scared" vanilla defensive calls has been going on for a while.

     
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