Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]You know, if the refs don't rob them blind at Indy in 2006 (or if Harrison, Seau, and other key defenders are healthy for that game). Or if, in 2007, Samuel catches the interception that Eli threw almost right to him; or if Thomas manages to bring down Eli instead of letting him get away; or if Harrison rips the ball out of Tyree's hands for an INT; or if the refs call the offensive holding (facemask) against the Giants when Seymour was being restrained from tackling Eli, then we're not holding any of these "BB doesn't know what he's doing" discussions that are so common on this board, because they'd have 5 Lombardi's, and everyone would have been OK with them taking a year or two to step back and rebuild in 2008-2009. People would even be OK with their post-season "growing pains" after a 14-2 season in 2010. Good fortune plays a big role in the NFL these days when it comes to the difference between winning a Super Bowl and not winning one. It just does. The talent gap between the upper echelon teams is very small nowadays, and good fortune, be it with health, officiating, or lucky bounces, plays a role. The Steelers' two titles this past decade have been quite fortunate: in 2005 they had perhaps the worst officiated Super Bowl in history go completely in their favor, and in 2008 they faced 8-8 and 9-7 teams as part of their post-season run (and they barely survived the 9-7 team because Kurt Warner threw a boneheaded pass at the end of the first half, and then half the Arizona team somehow failed to tackle James Harrison before he ran 100+ yards to the end zone as the first half clock ran out). The Packers would have missed the playoffs entirely in 2010 if Tampa Bay had just managed to beat Detroit, at home in Tampa, late last season. But they lost, and GB got in on a tiebreaker. The Saints were outplayed by the Vikings in the 2009 NFC title game, but Minnesota's offense shot itself in the foot all game long, culminating with Favre's moronic cross-body INT at the end of regulation that prevented Minnie from even attempting the GW field goal. Minnesota's mistakes were the ONLY reasons why the Saints even got to OT that day, and yet two weeks later they were holding the Lombardi Trophy, and now no one remembers how much the Vikings completely handed over that NFC title game to N.O. The Pats had the good fortune in the first half of the last decade; in the last six years, they haven't. Maybe it's time for things to swing back in their favor now, eh? They certainly appear to have the talent to get it done this season. No question.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]


    What you're saying is not untrue. Yet, if the D didn't collapse in the second half of the Colt's game a bad call or a dropped pass wouldn't have been an issue. And if the O-line had played a decent game in '07 a freak catch couldn't have beat us.

    It's like a baseball game where your picher gives up 12 runs, you battle back and a certain player makes the last out with a runner in scoring position to tie the game. The picher was the problem, not the guy who made the last out.

    And the same is true for the Colts and Giants games. The problem wasn't that we had bad breaks at the end. The problem was that we played below our ability so a bad break could undo us at the end.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : LOL I must have hurt your little feeling.  Your entire post history here is a personal attack on BB.  So, pot, meet kettle, then.  Please note my personal attack consisted of quoting YOU.  When people can attack you by cutting and pasting your own statements, you have an issue. IF you truly measured success by SB wins, you would WORSHIP BB because he is the only coach that got the Patriots ANY.  So what you mean is that is all that matters to you, and you are a whiny complainging brat when you don't get a trophy EVERY SINGLE YEAR.   Oh, and I talk about football too.  Often.  And sometimes I personally attack people.  Usually only if they are tools.
    Posted by Davedsone[/QUOTE]

    It's pretty much impossible for you to hurt my feelings, so don't fret about that.

    Calling people tools isn't quoting them.

    I guess you think BB is a whining complaining brat too, because he has said it isn't a good season if you don't win the SB.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]  This is getting nuts its fun talking about football  and stuff ,but this is overboard when does a fan think they know more then pro coaches!Its crazy to analyze every little thing teams do!!Cant they play the games and dicuss it after not whos going to trade this person sucks ,we need this person blah blah!If you knew so much you would be coaching in the NFL,but it sounds like some kid who sucks at sports and in compensating here for sucking or not making it big.   this is not directed at anyone just in genral!!!
    Posted by patsrkillers[/QUOTE]

    So, using this logic, no fan should point out that Butler sucks because they could not play DB as well as him, right?

    And no fan should have criticized the management of Matt Millen because he was a pro coach, right?
     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans :      Cut it out.      The Patriots overachieved in 2006 by beating a then superior Chargers team, and, but for some horrid officiating (PI call on Hobbs, which handed the Colts TD, and was such a bad call that the NFL sent the Patriots a "letter of apology" after the game...the B.S. offensive PI call against Troy Brown, which cost the Pats a TD...that's a 14 point swing right there), the Pats would have beaten the Bears in the SB.      The 2007 Patriots were one of the greatest teams ever...but they were derailed by a divine final drive, the execution by the Giants' defense of a great defensive game plan, and a monumental distraction launched by the media on the eve of the game. That's not a bunch of excuses. That's a bunch of facts.       How can you criticize either of those squads, even though they didn't win. They weren't one and done in the play-offs...and they both were beaten by the eventual SB champ.      You know, I defended you for your stance on the draft, and your right to be free from personal attacks when stating your opinions. But...is winning an argument so important to you that you're willing to say anything to come out on top?       As for not leaning on coulda, woulda, shoulda, that's exactly what you have done in criticizing BB as you have.      Sorry...you can make a case against BB about what happened in 2009 and 2010...but prior to that, you don't have a leg to stand on. Your seeming insistence that every time the Pats didn't win a championship from 2001-10 was an abject failure on BB's part is ridiculous.           
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]


    I think the lack of excellent GM work has been an issue for BB's entire tenure. I do not relegate it to just the last few years. Yes, in the early days a few pieces were added that augmented the core good players he inherited and of course getting Brady was one of the most fortunate aquisitions in history.

    As far as the loses to the Colts and Giants I don't assess the fails to some bad break at the endgame. I see failure of a D to hold a big lead and failure of the O-line to provide reasonable protection for those loses. And in that I see the ulterior cause of those problems being related to the performance as GM. These same issues are the two primary concerns we have to this day; a suspect D and a suspect O-line. Obviously the GM has still not addressed these needs to this point.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : i'll give u 2 out of 3 but that "monumental distraction" is a bunch of bs and beneath ur intelligence...u r just loading the deck of excuses-real or imagined-to take away from the giants win...man, u pats fans are worse sore losers than Yankees fans- which is saying something! u lost, fair and square, now maybe you'll stop clutching at straws and move on?
    Posted by JintsFan[/QUOTE]

         I gave the Giants credit for their win. On that day, they outplayed the Pats. But, how can you dismiss the fact that the NY media and a senile U.S. senator conspired, on the eve of the big game, to release the bogus allegations of spygate II? BB admitted that he and the team were distracted from the task at hand...spending all day the Saturday before the game dealing with this BS. 

         Was it just a coincidence that the Patriots played their worse game of the season the following Sunday? If something like this had happened to the Giants on the eve of the game...and they played their worst game of the year on SB Sunday...wouldn't you feel that the spygate II BS had something to do with your team playing poorly?   
     
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans


    Russ, I clearly enjoy your posts and bantering back and forth with you. You have a lot of football knowledge and love for the Pats. I can appreciate that.
    However, your last post to Babe is a bit off..."Slamming BB while ignoring other GM's mistakes, follies, etc...."...

    I haven't see Babe purposely ignore any GM or their mistakes...this is a board about the Pats, not the Jests or Jints. Seems logical he would focus on the Pats and BB.
    What he has simply done is provide a critique of BB in the role of GM, specifically around some of the most recent draft busts. By doing so doesn't mean he thinks BB is a subpar HC. In fact, he most recently called BB the best coach in football. So what your saying doesn't jive with what he's writing.

    I don't usually come to people's defense on this board, but I'm getting a bit sick of the spin here. It feels like CNN or MSNBC covering the Republican party. Republican's say 1 thing, CNN/MSNBC spin it to mean something completely different.

    I'm a tad older than you as well Russ. Been a Pats fan as far back as they have been a team. Suffered like everyone else through the lean years. Appreciate the good ones. A little critique specific to the draft or BB in the role of GM doesn't make one a troll. I see it as objectivity.

    And, i have well documented our troubles and tribulations drafting since 06'. The facts don't lie. Rounds 1-3, 10 busts, 8 guys still on the team, 1 of those 8 (Brace) is on the fence. If you want to look at comparing the Pats draft of 06'-10' to other teams to figure out their bust to current player ratio, take an organization that has had similar success, multiple SB's this decade, continuity in performance......I'll pick one..How about the Steelers?

    Steelers 06'-10' draft round-up
    Current Players
    2006 NONE (Santonio Holmes, Anthony Smith, Willie Reed are all gone)
    2007 Timmons, Woodley (Spaeth is gone)
    2008 Mendenhall, Sweed (Bruce Davis is gone)
    2009 Ziggy Hood, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis (Urbik gone)
    2010 MPouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Jason Worlids

    10 starters/contributors, 6 "busts" or guys not on the roster.
    Total of 16 picks in rounds 1-3 since 2006. That is almost polar opposite to the Pats success in a similar time period.

    Again, for pointing this out, it doesn't make me a troll, Gints fan, Jests fan, BB hater, etc., etc.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    Baby.
    It's one thing to criticize a coach for a particular play, cut, draft pick, ect...ect.
    Most people here do that. 
    This big difference here is that it's ALL you do, morning, noon and night!
    If the beer is warm or it takes too long to get out of the parking lot, it's BBs fault.  If they make a play or win a game or a SB, it's kuddos to Brady.
    Most normal people can see how utterly ridiculous that is and it's why you get sh#t and you are branded as a troll.
    You actually are a knowledgeable fan.  It's just a shame you let your BB obsession take away from that.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]Russ, I clearly enjoy your posts and bantering back and forth with you. You have a lot of football knowledge and love for the Pats. I can appreciate that. However, your last post to Babe is a bit off..."Slamming BB while ignoring other GM's mistakes, follies, etc...."... I haven't see Babe purposely ignore any GM or their mistakes...this is a board about the Pats, not the Jests or Jints. Seems logical he would focus on the Pats and BB. What he has simply done is provide a critique of BB in the role of GM, specifically around some of the most recent draft busts. By doing so doesn't mean he thinks BB is a subpar HC. In fact, he most recently called BB the best coach in football. So what your saying doesn't jive with what he's writing. I don't usually come to people's defense on this board, but I'm getting a bit sick of the spin here. It feels like CNN or MSNBC covering the Republican party. Republican's say 1 thing, CNN/MSNBC spin it to mean something completely different. I'm a tad older than you as well Russ. Been a Pats fan as far back as they have been a team. Suffered like everyone else through the lean years. Appreciate the good ones. A little critique specific to the draft or BB in the role of GM doesn't make one a troll. I see it as objectivity. And, i have well documented our troubles and tribulations drafting since 06'. The facts don't lie. Rounds 1-3, 10 busts, 8 guys still on the team, 1 of those 8 (Brace) is on the fence. If you want to look at comparing the Pats draft of 06'-10' to other teams to figure out their bust to current player ratio, take an organization that has had similar success, multiple SB's this decade, continuity in performance......I'll pick one..How about the Steelers? Steelers 06'-10' draft round-up Current Players 2006 NONE (Santonio Holmes, Anthony Smith, Willie Reed are all gone) 2007 Timmons, Woodley (Spaeth is gone) 2008 Mendenhall, Sweed (Bruce Davis is gone) 2009 Ziggy Hood, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis (Urbik gone) 2010 MPouncey, Emmanuel Sanders, Jason Worlids 10 starters/contributors, 6 "busts" or guys not on the roster. Total of 16 picks in rounds 1-3 since 2006. That is almost polar opposite to the Pats success in a similar time period. Again, for pointing this out, it doesn't make me a troll, Gints fan, Jests fan, BB hater, etc., etc.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Well said PL, and I appreciate you having my back on this and your sense of fairness. Of course I don't hate BB. I rather like BB. But there is a reason that we are no longer enjoying the success we did. That reason certainly isn't that we don't have a top notch QB.

    The issues we were concerned with going back to '06 are still the primary issues. Our D was blown away in the second half of the Colt's loss and against the Giants the D just wasn't there in the last minute along with a poor showing by the O-line most of the game. Over 5 years these issues may have actually gotten worse, and the cause of that has to be laid at the feet of the one who is building the team.
     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PhllyPhn1967. Show PhllyPhn1967's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    Pats have had poor drafts and trading out of the first round has not given Brady the best possible team to win with, FACT NOT OPINION.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]Baby. It's one thing to criticize a coach for a particular play, cut, draft pick, ect...ect. Most people here do that.  This big difference here is that it's ALL you do, morning, noon and night! If the beer is warm or it takes too long to get out of the parking lot, it's BBs fault.  If they make a play or win a game or a SB, it's kuddos to Brady. Most normal people can see how utterly ridiculous that is and it's why you get sh#t and you are branded as a troll. You actually are a knowledgeable fan.  It's just a shame you let your BB obsession take away from that.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    It is humorous that this thread exists as a response to the thread I made in which I noted that FANS were saying a rebuilding plan for the D was complete and it appeared because of wholesale changes to the D at the last minute that this was just not so.

    You folks turned it into a referendum on what kind of a job BB was doing, I didn't. I just responded to what you people were saying.

    We could have simply discussed whether the rebuild was complete or not, but  that's not how it went. And that wasn't my doing.
     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]I'll repeat what I said earlier---not even sure if it's in this thread or another BB bashing thread, because there have been so many of those at this point. I, too, once fell into the "if you don't win it all then the season is a waste of time" trap as a Boston sports fan. It was in the mid-80s when the Celtics had The Big Three in their primes and they were pretty much going to the NBA Finals, or at least the East Finals every season. If they lost in the NBA Finals (happened twice) or the East Finals (happened a few times--to Philly and Detroit), then I would be blind with anger for the entire summer and would declare the entire season that had preceded the post-season defeat to be a waste of time and a failure. Then something odd happened: The Big Three got old; Red got old and no longer could do the job he once did better than anyone else; and the C's began to fall into obscurity. It got to the point that by the time they actually were good enough to make a decent post-season run again (2002 with Pierce and Walker) I was ecstatic just to see them get as far as they did. I was thrilled that they won it all in 2008, and disappointed that they couldn't finish the job against the Lakers in 2010--but the loss to LA didn't prevent me from enjoying that improbable post-season run immensely. It's all about perspective, I think. It had been so long since the C's were relevant on the NBA scene, the one title they won during the "new big three" era seemed like 10 to me, and even losing to the despised Lakers two years ago didn't bother me nearly as much as it did in 1985. The bottom line is that I've enjoyed being a fan much more since I calmed down and realized that no team can win the championship every season, no matter how many HOF players or all-time greats they've got on the roster. Luck plays a role. Injuries play a role. Other teams simply being better in one game or one short series also plays a role. If you guys who are absolutely killing BB in these threads truly are Pats fans, then my suggestion would be that you need to calm down and try to enjoy the fact that NE is a perennial Super Bowl contender right now, and even if they don't win it all, that's still a great accomplishment in this hyper-competitive NFL era. You'll drive yourself crazy as fans if "win the Super Bowl or the season is a failure" is your mantra every year. Trust me, you will drive yourself nuts and you simply won't enjoy the fan experience as much as you should. I learned that lesson with the C's in the 80s, and I'm glad that I did.
    Posted by hardright[/QUOTE]

    Obviously if all you enjoy are championships you could just wait until the end of the year and watch your team win the championship only.

    But of course the ride along the way is half the fun.
     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : "Last minute"??? Or is BB so wise HE KNEW these players would be cap hits out of the lockout and had it planned the whole time???!!!!! Hmmm, Babe??!!!! Care to answer that one, hotshot? Don't you get that every single aspect of what being a GM is, is really inclusive (Market value, selling assets, allocation of dollars to each posiitoin, where you select a player, trading back to still get a player and save $$). You ignore this because you knew it hurts your premise. We have dopes complaining about Seymour who now makes 14 million as a loser in Oakland, and Clay Matthews in GB as a one dimensional pass rusher who doesn't cover, and BB scores Gronkowski, Haynesworth, Ellis, Carter and Brian Waters for like 4 million less than what Seymour makes? Mediocre GM? Last minute? Is it? lol We have Chung because he dealt Vrabel andn tagged Cassel, likely as a sweethaeart deal for both Pioli and BB. Funny how in the new BB NFL Network piece that will air next week, one portion has BB discussing Wilfork's contract extension in 2009, BEFORE it became a dramatic media piece in the summmer of 2010. POint? He's always thinking. One, 2, 3, 4, steps ahead.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    Certainly BB has strengths. He absolutely knows when a player is not worth keeping either because of ability or cost. This has to do with his exceptional ability as a coach. If he can actually watch you and work you in controlled practices and games for a while he is quite infallible. He also is expert with trades for the most part and has a keen eye for value.

    But he is not so hot selecting players he has not had the opportunity to test in controlled conditions (which sets him apart because a lot of guys out there don't get iit right even when they have a guy on their roster to examine intensely). His drafting is average and the same can be said for his free agent signings. These two things are critical to the team building process, especially the draft.

    And this is why our success has diminished. It certainly hasn't diminished because we don't have a great QB or a great HC.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : It is humorous that this thread exists as a response to the thread I made in which I noted that FANS were saying a rebuilding plan for the D was complete and it appeared because of wholesale changes to the D at the last minute that this was just not so. You folks turned it into a referendum on what kind of a job BB was doing, I didn't. I just responded to what you people were saying. We could have simply discussed whether the rebuild was complete or not, but  that's not how it went. And that wasn't my doing.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately it's not just this discussion.  It's all of them. At every opportunity, perceived or not, you take a swipe at BB.
    Perhaps if you didn't, you could have a normal discussion without having to defend yourself.
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : Apparently it's not fun for you because BB just pulled the wool over your eyes and kicked you in the nuts, professor. You make no sense. You just described yourself when you said watching the SB is the only thing that matters. That's YOU. Call up Patrick Sullivan and see if he has any Berry the Bears T-Shirts left, dopey.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    I enjoy the season just fine. That doesn't mean I consider it a success because I enjoyed it. Me and BB agree completely. A "good season" results in a championship. That doesn't mean the ride wasn't fun in either case.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : WHo is "hot" at selecting players? Name your top 5 GMs again.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    As I have repeatedly sated; those who have constructed a SB winner in the last 6 years.

    And just for good measure, let's say those who have managed to win a playoff game in the last 3 years.
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : See, this just screams agenda.  That clearly eliminates the Pats. Why is it 6 years? And why is it "3" for the playoffs when you know Brady was down in 2008? Exposed.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKing[/QUOTE]

    It doesn't scream anything resembling an agenda. It simply shows that the success is consistently diminishing.

    What does Brady going down have to do with it? Injuries happen. You either make the playoffs or you don't. If we had a better D that year we might well have made the playoffs despite Brady being down.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans

    In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Babe Parilli vs Rational Pats Fans : Unfortunately it's not just this discussion.  It's all of them. At every opportunity, perceived or not, you take a swipe at BB. Perhaps if you didn't, you could have a normal discussion without having to defend yourself.
    Posted by pezz4pats[/QUOTE]

    Tell ya what I'll do. I'll stop commenting about BB's performance once other people stop praising him as a genius in almost every thread. Fair enough?
     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share