BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    Interesting piece.  Be just as interesting to see who is ranked ahead of him.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    Not knowing who is in front of him and off the top of my head it seems that he should be at least in the top 5 possibly top 3.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    It's almost as difficult to compare coaches from different eras as it is players.  I'd start with whether a coach has dominated within his own era and go from there.  I haven't seen the list but I'm sure there aren't any chumps in the top 10.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from quinzpatsfan. Show quinzpatsfan's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to Bunker Spreckles' comment:

    ESPN should be embarrrassed to print that. Anti-BB media bias proven.




    Yeah I hear you there's def that.  But I think there's also the bias with everyone a little of making someone the best of all time that is still in their prime.  BB  still has a great opportunity to win 2-3 more SB or at least have 4-5 really good years left with brady and may or may not continue to coach here or somewhere else after. 

    I think that 10 years or more after a coach retires the people that have prejudices (jets fans, players coachs he beat, sportwrites he told to  $&*$ off etc...) will look with a clearer picture about what he accomplished in his lifetime.

    I haven't seen who's above him they could be all active coaches with kills my point but doubt it.

    Most likely when BB retires his body of work will make it impossible to dispute being the best.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    I don't agree with them, to me BB is a top 5 maybe top 3 all time, but I can see where they are coming from. Now here me out on this one:

    1) Spygate - we all know it's a bunch of nonsense around here but nationally, right or wrong, there still is the question mark on whether that had an influence. Now winning a Super Bowl after the issue would have propelled him over that stigma and certainly consistently winning since then has helped to heal his image but I can still see how it lost him some points.

    2) Losing twice to the Giants - this is another right or wrong moment where I can see Coughlin gets put as #6 overall. Lets face it, it's a what have you done lately world and with both coaches still in the game Coughlin has bested BB twice now. Again I'd much rather have BB over Coughlin but I can see where the media would say, 'well to be the best you have to beat the best' and BB just hasn't done it to Coughlin head to head.

    3) Tom Brady - Now BB should get a ton of credit but when you have an all time great leading your team, than your shine doesn't look as bright. I can see from a media perspective looking at it as, if you took Brady away BB would still be great but would he be an all time great? Right or wrong (notice the trend) I can see this coming from the media's mind.

    Now when you talking top 10 all time those right or wrong decisions do become a factor in a panel of media, esp considering the level of competition for greatest all time. Again I think BB should be higher on the list and I'll guarantee if he beat the Giants just once in those 2 Super Bowls or if he wins just one more he'd be a top 3 with heavy debate for #1 but for right now lets not jump to badly on the media because the 3 points I suggested does make it a debate on where in the top 10 you'd place him depending on how you feel about them.

     


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time


    Where is the link with those ranked ahead of him?

    I'd have him at least top three active, at least top five all time, with a solid case to be #1 in both categories. Maybe active you can make the Coughlin argument, because he does have his number. 

    I'm struggling to think of someone who I think is better other than that. 

    blog post photo
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time


    OK, found the list. Obviously, Lombardi, Brown, Walsh, Shula, Noll, and Halas in some order will be their list. Shula and his fluke undefeated season makes me want to rage. 

    The case for the other guys? They all won more, or changed the game in some way. Remove Shula, get Landrty (who was a much better coach) in the mix. 

    That is the only real clash of the titans. 

    blog post photo
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    To me the Play-off losses at HOME, the past few years had to hurt him too. That Ravens game a couple of years ago, was a close call too.
    Good teams dont lose at Home. Not this steady.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    I don't agree with them, to me BB is a top 5 maybe top 3 all time, but I can see where they are coming from. Now here me out on this one:

    1) Spygate - we all know it's a bunch of nonsense around here but nationally, right or wrong, there still is the question mark on whether that had an influence. Now winning a Super Bowl after the issue would have propelled him over that stigma and certainly consistently winning since then has helped to heal his image but I can still see how it lost him some points.

    2) Losing twice to the Giants - this is another right or wrong moment where I can see Coughlin gets put as #6 overall. Lets face it, it's a what have you done lately world and with both coaches still in the game Coughlin has bested BB twice now. Again I'd much rather have BB over Coughlin but I can see where the media would say, 'well to be the best you have to beat the best' and BB just hasn't done it to Coughlin head to head.

    3) Tom Brady - Now BB should get a ton of credit but when you have an all time great leading your team, than your shine doesn't look as bright. I can see from a media perspective looking at it as, if you took Brady away BB would still be great but would he be an all time great? Right or wrong (notice the trend) I can see this coming from the media's mind.

    Now when you talking top 10 all time those right or wrong decisions do become a factor in a panel of media, esp considering the level of competition for greatest all time. Again I think BB should be higher on the list and I'll guarantee if he beat the Giants just once in those 2 Super Bowls or if he wins just one more he'd be a top 3 with heavy debate for #1 but for right now lets not jump to badly on the media because the 3 points I suggested does make it a debate on where in the top 10 you'd place him depending on how you feel about them.

     


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus



    I would add, that rightly or wrongly, the perception of BB as a defensive guru who has had trouble feilding a better than merely respectable defense for the better part of a decade now (28 points in each game last playoffs), hurts him as well.

    He was the man who stymied the Bills, and grounded the greatest Show on Turf, and the only guy who could stop the Niners offense in the 1980s (it was partly a byproduct of the Fairbanks-Bullough system really being an enigma to the Walsh offense which was build to destroy passive read/react 43 defenses). He is known as a master "game planner." 

    I think that is bunk though, because BB is a total football mind. He was hands on in developing the offense throughout the entire decade. HE takes pilgrimages to talk offense with guys like Spurrier and Urban Meyer and Chip Kelly. He is constantly innovating by borrowing from college programs that have the freedom to experiment in ways the NFL cannot. And he never borrows "flavor of the month" type ideas like the "wildcat" nonsense. 

    It was conversations with Spurrier that led him to divide the route concepts for the EP offense into two sides of the field. It was conversations with Meyer that gave him the idea of using the EP RB/TE routes for WRs in a spread formation in 2007-8, and while te two TE affair he is using now is largely lifted from old Giants stuff in concept, a lot of it's layout (bunch formations, etc) is also borrowed from Meyer's spread-mutiple Utah offense, and lastly, the whole no-huddle offense is directly borrowed from Chip Kelly who was running that up-tempo attack at Oregon a few years back. That it worked so well with the EP verbiage is fortuitous, that it it worked so seemlessly and innovatively in its own right (hurry up and run was awesome) that we now have immitators like the Cowboys who will be shifting to an up-tempo Erhardt-Perkins offense is a credit to BB's genius. 

    People on ESPN need to give this guy credit, because there isn't a facet of this team he isn't right on top of. He is NOT just a defense guy. He is a DC, OC, tight-lipped media agent, and GM all wrapped into one. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    Rather silly, really. 

    I'm sure you could make an argument that Belichick isn't a top-3 coach of all time...

    ...it just wouldn't be a very rational one.

    He's a top-3 coach without much debate, and how he isn't in the top-5 is beyond me.

    _________________

    Let's go Pats!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time


    I just don't worry about "rankings" no matter what you are talking about......because all rankings are, are people's OPINIONS.

    So some might think BB is better than 7th, others may think he's not even top 10. Does it really matter where he's ranked? The guy has brought us 3 Lombardis, and over a decade of excellence & winning seasons. I just don't care where he "ranks"....he's one of the greatest....period.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to tanbass' comment:


    I just don't worry about "rankings" no matter what you are talking about......because all rankings are, are people's OPINIONS.

    So some might think BB is better than 7th, others may think he's not even top 10. Does it really matter where he's ranked? The guy has brought us 3 Lombardis, and over a decade of excellence & winning seasons. I just don't care where he "ranks"....he's one of the greatest....period.



    Well stated.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    I would have to agree somewhat with Z with c.w.o.t.b. in terms of his legacy falling a bit in the last 6 years or so. He did win 3 Lombardi's and noone can take that away. He has gone to more SB's but those appearances IMO have hurt him more than anything. If he never went to one after 2004. He would end his Pats career with  a 3-0 record in SB's. Going to 2 more and losing to a supposed inferior coach in Coughlin TWICE kind of adds fuel to the Spygate Fire, wether warranted or not. My 2 cents is this. BB has always been lauded as a defensive genius but with out the necessary Star Power he has proven to be anything but that. His last 6 years as HC, we have witnessed a Superb Offense with a very flawed Defense from a guy rooted in Defense. So does HE get credit for recent success which is mainly offense and Brady or does McDaniels and also Obie get some credit for those record breaking years??  If you consider the guys they had in N.Y. - L.T. , Banks, Peppers,etc its easy to assume it was more of the playmakers than BB. We saw what BB did when he had the roster leftover from Parcells days. He went to 3 and won 3. After those guys left, we had to give BB a chance to get HIS guys. He has had plenty of time now and the defense is still Meh so what does that say to me? He is a very good coach. Great game manager,etc, but he is still human and judging by recent years, he is just average. The people who keep pointing to us being in the hunt every year fail to see that is mainly TFB! If BB had an average QB, he would just be an average coach IMO. He went 5-11 with Bledsoe when he was still in his prime...seeing as he played 3 more years in Buffalo and another 2 in Dallas. Just my opinion but he better win another soon.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    I don't agree with them, to me BB is a top 5 maybe top 3 all time, but I can see where they are coming from. Now here me out on this one:

    1) Spygate - we all know it's a bunch of nonsense around here but nationally, right or wrong, there still is the question mark on whether that had an influence. Now winning a Super Bowl after the issue would have propelled him over that stigma and certainly consistently winning since then has helped to heal his image but I can still see how it lost him some points.

    2) Losing twice to the Giants - this is another right or wrong moment where I can see Coughlin gets put as #6 overall. Lets face it, it's a what have you done lately world and with both coaches still in the game Coughlin has bested BB twice now. Again I'd much rather have BB over Coughlin but I can see where the media would say, 'well to be the best you have to beat the best' and BB just hasn't done it to Coughlin head to head.

    3) Tom Brady - Now BB should get a ton of credit but when you have an all time great leading your team, than your shine doesn't look as bright. I can see from a media perspective looking at it as, if you took Brady away BB would still be great but would he be an all time great? Right or wrong (notice the trend) I can see this coming from the media's mind.

    Now when you talking top 10 all time those right or wrong decisions do become a factor in a panel of media, esp considering the level of competition for greatest all time. Again I think BB should be higher on the list and I'll guarantee if he beat the Giants just once in those 2 Super Bowls or if he wins just one more he'd be a top 3 with heavy debate for #1 but for right now lets not jump to badly on the media because the 3 points I suggested does make it a debate on where in the top 10 you'd place him depending on how you feel about them.

     


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     



    I think u and most others here know I would not be in favor of #2

     

    I take the entire body of work and I also know everybody, be it coach or player, has there nemesis or "kryptonite" as some put it here

    much as I am a grateful Coughlin Giants fan I would not put him ahead of Bellichick-that would not be fair based on the entire body of work

    that said I do think u could make a Top 10 argument for Coughlin and I do think he should be in Canton one day

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    I can't believe they ranked him that low he is without a doubt in my mind the #1 HC of all time and that includes Mr. Cheesehead himself. As for the losses to the Gnats how do you say he lost the games? The first game was decided by a guy catching a hail Mary pass on his helmet and if he made the exacty same catch today it would be ruled incomplete based upon the ball coming in contact with the ground, in game #2 a midget drops a wide open pass that would have effectively killed the clock, and resulted instead of the Patriots winning another Super Bowl to allowing the Gnats to get possession of the ball with enough time to win the game. If you want to argue that Bill Walsh was a better coach I won't argue with you because he was pretty good but not Tom Coughlin.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    It's almost as difficult to compare coaches from different eras as it is players.  I'd start with whether a coach has dominated within his own era and go from there.  I haven't seen the list but I'm sure there aren't any chumps in the top 10.




    couldn't agree more Catfish...comparing eras is in the end a moot argument because their are too many changes and variables and the games change and evolve...

    besides oldsters will always have their understandable, at times poignant but basically illogical attachment to their childhood heroes and saying today's athletes are better is saying goodbye to their childhood so most will go out of their way not to do it (ever hear chris mad dog russo? it's comical but sad how lost in the past he is)

    i have always felt that if you are an all-time great-not just a HOFer necessarily but one of the all-timers-then ur talent would be great in any era, whatever the differenes in the game, that u are not a product of ur time

    i am sure babe ruth or ted williams or bob gibson would be great today and i am sure albert pujols or pedro martinez or miguel cabrerra would have been great in those days

     

    and i am sure lombardi or noll could win today and that bellichick or coughlin or even tomlin could win back then

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to dreighver's comment:

    Rather silly, really. 

    I'm sure you could make an argument that Belichick isn't a top-3 coach of all time...

    ...it just wouldn't be a very rational one.

    He's a top-3 coach without much debate, and how he isn't in the top-5 is beyond me.

    _________________

    Let's go Pats!




    no it's debatable and very much so-ur post is homerism at it's worst

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I can't believe they ranked him that low he is without a doubt in my mind the #1 HC of all time and that includes Mr. Cheesehead himself. As for the losses to the Gnats how do you say he lost the games? The first game was decided by a guy catching a hail Mary pass on his helmet and if he made the exacty same catch today it would be ruled incomplete based upon the ball coming in contact with the ground, in game #2 a midget drops a wide open pass that would have effectively killed the clock, and resulted instead of the Patriots winning another Super Bowl to allowing the Gnats to get possession of the ball with enough time to win the game. If you want to argue that Bill Walsh was a better coach I won't argue with you because he was pretty good but not Tom Coughlin.



    homerism part deux

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't agree with them, to me BB is a top 5 maybe top 3 all time, but I can see where they are coming from. Now here me out on this one:

    1) Spygate - we all know it's a bunch of nonsense around here but nationally, right or wrong, there still is the question mark on whether that had an influence. Now winning a Super Bowl after the issue would have propelled him over that stigma and certainly consistently winning since then has helped to heal his image but I can still see how it lost him some points.

    2) Losing twice to the Giants - this is another right or wrong moment where I can see Coughlin gets put as #6 overall. Lets face it, it's a what have you done lately world and with both coaches still in the game Coughlin has bested BB twice now. Again I'd much rather have BB over Coughlin but I can see where the media would say, 'well to be the best you have to beat the best' and BB just hasn't done it to Coughlin head to head.

    3) Tom Brady - Now BB should get a ton of credit but when you have an all time great leading your team, than your shine doesn't look as bright. I can see from a media perspective looking at it as, if you took Brady away BB would still be great but would he be an all time great? Right or wrong (notice the trend) I can see this coming from the media's mind.

    Now when you talking top 10 all time those right or wrong decisions do become a factor in a panel of media, esp considering the level of competition for greatest all time. Again I think BB should be higher on the list and I'll guarantee if he beat the Giants just once in those 2 Super Bowls or if he wins just one more he'd be a top 3 with heavy debate for #1 but for right now lets not jump to badly on the media because the 3 points I suggested does make it a debate on where in the top 10 you'd place him depending on how you feel about them.

     


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     



    I think u and most others here know I would not be in favor of #2

     

    I take the entire body of work and I also know everybody, be it coach or player, has there nemesis or "kryptonite" as some put it here

    mush as I am a grateful Coughlin Giants fan I would not put him ahead of Bellichick-that would not be fair based on the entire body of work

    that said I do think u could make a Top 10 argument for Coughlin and I do think he should be in Canton one day

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah I wouldn't put Coughlin ahead of BB either. He's a top 15 and you could make a strong argument for top (honestly I would have to actually sit down and look at other past coaches before I call him top 10 just because I don't have a lot of comparison references) but yeah he should be a Canton invite one day. Maybe not first year but he should get in. I was just looking at reasons they might have used to justify the #7 spot

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to 42AND46's comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I can't believe they ranked him that low he is without a doubt in my mind the #1 HC of all time and that includes Mr. Cheesehead himself. As for the losses to the Gnats how do you say he lost the games? The first game was decided by a guy catching a hail Mary pass on his helmet and if he made the exacty same catch today it would be ruled incomplete based upon the ball coming in contact with the ground, in game #2 a midget drops a wide open pass that would have effectively killed the clock, and resulted instead of the Patriots winning another Super Bowl to allowing the Gnats to get possession of the ball with enough time to win the game. If you want to argue that Bill Walsh was a better coach I won't argue with you because he was pretty good but not Tom Coughlin.

     



    homerism part deux

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Woooooo your busted!   All the points sports bozo pointed out and he's a homer?  Well your one sentence retort makes you a troll.  He should have added all the holding on the helmet catch.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    I would have to agree somewhat with Z with c.w.o.t.b. in terms of his legacy falling a bit in the last 6 years or so. He did win 3 Lombardi's and noone can take that away. He has gone to more SB's but those appearances IMO have hurt him more than anything. If he never went to one after 2004. He would end his Pats career with  a 3-0 record in SB's. Going to 2 more and losing to a supposed inferior coach in Coughlin TWICE kind of adds fuel to the Spygate Fire, wether warranted or not. My 2 cents is this. BB has always been lauded as a defensive genius but with out the necessary Star Power he has proven to be anything but that. His last 6 years as HC, we have witnessed a Superb Offense with a very flawed Defense from a guy rooted in Defense. So does HE get credit for recent success which is mainly offense and Brady or does McDaniels and also Obie get some credit for those record breaking years??  If you consider the guys they had in N.Y. - L.T. , Banks, Peppers,etc its easy to assume it was more of the playmakers than BB. We saw what BB did when he had the roster leftover from Parcells days. He went to 3 and won 3. After those guys left, we had to give BB a chance to get HIS guys. He has had plenty of time now and the defense is still Meh so what does that say to me? He is a very good coach. Great game manager,etc, but he is still human and judging by recent years, he is just average. The people who keep pointing to us being in the hunt every year fail to see that is mainly TFB! If BB had an average QB, he would just be an average coach IMO. He went 5-11 with Bledsoe when he was still in his prime...seeing as he played 3 more years in Buffalo and another 2 in Dallas. Just my opinion but he better win another soon.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver



    You realize of course that every single coach above him on the list never had to play with a salary cap and therefore got to retain all of their stars as long as they wanted.  It's not like these guys won with teams full of JAGs.  And they certainly didn't win with JAGs at the QB position.  These arguments to discredit BB are ridiculously lame imo.

    I can't believe a Patriots fan actually called BB average as a coach over the last 6 years.  Wow just wow.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I would have to agree somewhat with Z with c.w.o.t.b. in terms of his legacy falling a bit in the last 6 years or so. He did win 3 Lombardi's and noone can take that away. He has gone to more SB's but those appearances IMO have hurt him more than anything. If he never went to one after 2004. He would end his Pats career with  a 3-0 record in SB's. Going to 2 more and losing to a supposed inferior coach in Coughlin TWICE kind of adds fuel to the Spygate Fire, wether warranted or not. My 2 cents is this. BB has always been lauded as a defensive genius but with out the necessary Star Power he has proven to be anything but that. His last 6 years as HC, we have witnessed a Superb Offense with a very flawed Defense from a guy rooted in Defense. So does HE get credit for recent success which is mainly offense and Brady or does McDaniels and also Obie get some credit for those record breaking years??  If you consider the guys they had in N.Y. - L.T. , Banks, Peppers,etc its easy to assume it was more of the playmakers than BB. We saw what BB did when he had the roster leftover from Parcells days. He went to 3 and won 3. After those guys left, we had to give BB a chance to get HIS guys. He has had plenty of time now and the defense is still Meh so what does that say to me? He is a very good coach. Great game manager,etc, but he is still human and judging by recent years, he is just average. The people who keep pointing to us being in the hunt every year fail to see that is mainly TFB! If BB had an average QB, he would just be an average coach IMO. He went 5-11 with Bledsoe when he was still in his prime...seeing as he played 3 more years in Buffalo and another 2 in Dallas. Just my opinion but he better win another soon.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     



    You realize of course that every single coach above him on the list never had to play with a salary cap and therefore got to retain all of their stars as long as they wanted.  It's not like these guys won with teams full of JAGs.  And they certainly didn't win with JAGs at the QB position.  These arguments to discredit BB are ridiculously lame imo.

     

    I can't believe a Patriots fan actually called BB average as a coach over the last 6 years.  Wow just wow.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not to mention they all had great QBs. 

    Walsh - Montana

    Lombardi - Starr

    Noll - Bradshaw

    Brown - Graham

    Halas - Luckman

    Shula - Marino/Greise

    And even the guys behind him: 

    Landry -Staubach

    Shannahan - Elway

    Dungy - Manning

    Johnson - Aikman

    Levy - Kelly

    Parcells - Simms 

    All great coaches who string together epic runs and SB titles have a QB. I think only Gibbs did it otherwise since the 1980s. 

    Furthermore, my last post says it all ... BB built and designed NE's offense. He is the one tinkering it year to year, not Brady. He drafted the talent that surrounds Brady, not Brady. 

    Yes Brady is an all time great, maybe the GOAT, surely top three. 

    But he is still just a part of BB's team. The most important part for sure, but just a part. 

    BB is the coach. Separate the two. One doesn't detract from the other. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    I would have to agree somewhat with Z with c.w.o.t.b. in terms of his legacy falling a bit in the last 6 years or so. He did win 3 Lombardi's and noone can take that away. He has gone to more SB's but those appearances IMO have hurt him more than anything. If he never went to one after 2004. He would end his Pats career with  a 3-0 record in SB's. Going to 2 more and losing to a supposed inferior coach in Coughlin TWICE kind of adds fuel to the Spygate Fire, wether warranted or not. My 2 cents is this. BB has always been lauded as a defensive genius but with out the necessary Star Power he has proven to be anything but that. His last 6 years as HC, we have witnessed a Superb Offense with a very flawed Defense from a guy rooted in Defense. So does HE get credit for recent success which is mainly offense and Brady or does McDaniels and also Obie get some credit for those record breaking years??  If you consider the guys they had in N.Y. - L.T. , Banks, Peppers,etc its easy to assume it was more of the playmakers than BB. We saw what BB did when he had the roster leftover from Parcells days. He went to 3 and won 3. After those guys left, we had to give BB a chance to get HIS guys. He has had plenty of time now and the defense is still Meh so what does that say to me? He is a very good coach. Great game manager,etc, but he is still human and judging by recent years, he is just average. The people who keep pointing to us being in the hunt every year fail to see that is mainly TFB! If BB had an average QB, he would just be an average coach IMO. He went 5-11 with Bledsoe when he was still in his prime...seeing as he played 3 more years in Buffalo and another 2 in Dallas. Just my opinion but he better win another soon.

     

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     



    You realize of course that every single coach above him on the list never had to play with a salary cap and therefore got to retain all of their stars as long as they wanted.  It's not like these guys won with teams full of JAGs.  And they certainly didn't win with JAGs at the QB position.  These arguments to discredit BB are ridiculously lame imo.

     

    I can't believe a Patriots fan actually called BB average as a coach over the last 6 years.  Wow just wow.




    I think you may have taken some words out of context. If I am agreeing with 2 others, why is just MY post you have a problem with? Let me Clarify. I said BB without Brady would be average in terms of wins/losses, legacy. I dont seek to discredit BB, I seek to point out that he is HUMAN which some here cant realize. How many of us have watched ALL the coaches on the list Coach? I know I can only say a couple.  There are more coaches than just BB that have had prolonged success without the extreme accolades BB gets. How about Bill Cohwer? Sure, BB has gotten him head to head at times, but Cowhers team were always tough and he went to a few SB's and won a most so why no talk of Cohwer of being great? Also, when assessing a coach, arent we taking the FULL body of work into the fold and so his cleveland days must be accounted for as well. If you combine all the years he has been H.C. , I am saying others would stack up close to him but would never get mention. I think he is a very good defensive coach as well as an offensive coach but he cant turn scrubs into Hall of Famers like some think and his bargain basement approach has hurt him in that regards. Big Ego as well. I call it straight. We are talking about BB. If we are to put someone else under the microscope I would do the same. Im sorry If Ive seen the guy be outcoached quite a few times in the last 5 years. There is no salary cap comeback to that. It is what it is. Without Brady and a Dominating defense, he is average. He is very good with one of the 2, but how many coaches WOULDNT be good with both, that is the question so why is BB a genius again? He fleeces other GM's in trades, ok. Stockpiles picks ok. Turns offensive players into defensive guys, ok. X and O's, crucial in game decision and adjustments as of late, I just dont see it. Been a while since we took the intentional safety in Denver

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: BB Comes In At 7th All-Time

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

    I can't believe they ranked him that low he is without a doubt in my mind the #1 HC of all time and that includes Mr. Cheesehead himself. As for the losses to the Gnats how do you say he lost the games? The first game was decided by a guy catching a hail Mary pass on his helmet and if he made the exacty same catch today it would be ruled incomplete based upon the ball coming in contact with the ground, in game #2 a midget drops a wide open pass that would have effectively killed the clock, and resulted instead of the Patriots winning another Super Bowl to allowing the Gnats to get possession of the ball with enough time to win the game. If you want to argue that Bill Walsh was a better coach I won't argue with you because he was pretty good but not Tom Coughlin.



    I guess the only thing you can say is the best coach of all time doesn't put himself in a position that a single play can make the difference. Now the players have a big hand in it too but if we are giving BB credit for getting to the SB you have to give him equal credit for losing it. Can't have it both ways. BTW I think BB is better than both Coughlin and Walsh

     

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