BB Proves He's the Master!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    BB Proves He's the Master!

    I love the Pats draft picks and how they move around in the draft for the future.  Rather than keeping the 1st which would have been a crapshoot anyways, they load up in the 2nd and 3rd rds, I easily can see at least two becoming quality starters for the Pats.  Meanwhile, Pioli and McDaniels have just traded their new teams best players and have had very unimpressive drafts.

    Maybe now other teams will start to understand, unless your getting   BB and Brady, your getting nothing.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ricky1554atl. Show ricky1554atl's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    He's the best. Cost effective drafting. Not many spots open on this roster to begin with. Now we have three second rounds picks next year.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kmaxx. Show Kmaxx's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Last time I checked Players win Championships not Draft Picks.  If Draft pick = wins then Detroit should have 6 rings by now.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    He always trades for "next year's draft" and we always think that next year we will load up.  Then he trade for next year's draft.

    I am underwhelmed with this year's effort.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]He always trades for "next year's draft" and we always think that next year we will load up.  Then he trade for next year's draft. I am underwhelmed with this year's effort.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]He always trades for "next year's draft" and we always think that next year we will load up.  Then he trade for next year's draft. I am underwhelmed with this year's effort.
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    What are you talking about? We just drafted a slew of 2nd and 3rd rounders in a deep draft and came away with 2 extra 2nds next year. IMHO, I think that is great drafting.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Seems to me that he is the master of compiling picks, but not necessarily picking. 

    That said, compiling picks is not a bad thing, but be clear.  It is not picking. 

    If picking were his forte then he would not be bringing in so many veterans.  He would not need to. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerh5. Show jerh5's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Seems to me that he is the master of compiling picks, but not necessarily picking.  That said, compiling picks is not a bad thing, but be clear.  It is not picking.  If picking were his forte then he would not be bringing in so many veterans.  He would not need to. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]

    I see what you are saying but picking is still a cr@p shoot whether you have 5 picks or 20. I would rather have the 20 picks, assuming everything is relative. You can trade half your picks to move up into the top 10, but you are still not guaranteed anything except a big salary to pay. I like to think of it as creating your own luck.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BradyHasMoreRings. Show BradyHasMoreRings's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Seems to me that he is the master of compiling picks, but not necessarily picking.  That said, compiling picks is not a bad thing, but be clear.  It is not picking.  If picking were his forte then he would not be bringing in so many veterans.  He would not need to. 
    Posted by underdogg[/QUOTE]


    EVERY TEAM HAS THIS PROBLEM.
    there is not one team that picks perfect year in and year out.
    But you cant say he bad at picking. our front line ...he drafted, brady drafted,mayo,mankins,neal,kazcur...you want me to keep going...(3 super bowls) dont say hes bad at picking.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from donspartucus. Show donspartucus's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

     BB Proves He's the Master!

    Why would he pass on other talent to draft a guy who wasn't even listed in Sporting News Draft Guide and was projected as an undrafted priority free agent signing? Sebastian Vollmer?  Bird Brain proves he's a master! They should have moved up in the draft to get either Andre Smith OT or Robert Ayers DE!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from reamer. Show reamer's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Underdogg, BB just perfers guys with the ability to start. Not very many rookies start; Mayo was quite an exception. So if he brings in more vets than average, it's because he values their experience. Also, if you look at the guys we've drafted, quite a few are still in the league with other teams. I know your Colts have a higher retention rate for draft picks, but we've both had similiar succses in the past decade or so. Isn't that the ultimate goal? *shrug*
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]EVERY TEAM HAS THIS PROBLEM. there is not one team that picks perfect year in and year out. But you cant say he bad at picking. our front line ...he drafted, brady drafted,mayo,mankins,neal,kazcur...you want me to keep going...(3 super bowls) dont say hes bad at picking.
    Posted by BradyHasMoreRings[/QUOTE]

    There are teams, however, that pick better year in and year out.  Tell you what, I will go toe to toe with colts picks vs. pats picks. - and as for superbowls your last was 2005 - the 49ers could say they have 5.  dallas could say they have 5. 

    Yep - bb's still coaching but at some point in time, for you guys to maintain your level of arrogance, he has to deliver again.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]Underdogg, BB just perfers guys with the ability to start. Not very many rookies start; Mayo was quite an exception. So if he brings in more vets than average, it's because he values their experience. Also, if you look at the guys we've drafted, quite a few are still in the league with other teams. I know your Colts have a higher retention rate for draft picks, but we've both had similiar succses in the past decade or so. Isn't that the ultimate goal? *shrug*
    Posted by reamer[/QUOTE]

    Reamer - I totally agree which is why I said belichick is a master at stockpiling picks.  and at times he uses them to get vets he wants.  But this thread was about belichick being the master of the draft, and frankly I don't agree.  others are better. 

    total personnel decisions are a different story, but that is not the point of this thread.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    I'll go toe to toe with draft picks. Indy has had some good first rounders, but then in most seasons NE has a worse selection than Indy.

    They are two of the four best drafting teams with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

    Any of these teams could go toe to toe.

    NE played this draft extremely well, IMO.

    #23 for Butler (who half the mocks had them taking at #23) and Brandon Tate, who most mocks had going in the second AND a second rounder next season.

    That is a score. On every account. Rating a draft, however, comes years later.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    What is it about making hay in the low second round?

    The Patriots get one second round pick per year, just like all the other teams, often slightly worse because they've just had a 14-2 season or better.  Their first rounder is barely better than a poor team's second rounder.

    So they turn a fourth rounder two years ago into a #40 low second round pick with three trades.  They pay full price for a second rounder (#34).  They trade from the first round down to #41.  They use their own #58.  They stockpile two second rounders for 2010 along with their normal second rounder in 2010.  No one else in the NFL has even remotely grasped the possibility that seven of these potential solid starters could be captured by one team in 2 years.

    The second round, starting at pick #33, is when young, fast, energetic good players can be signed to an extra year of indentured servitude at low wages.   BB will be glad to grab seven of these second rounders in 2 years.  First rounders are all fou-fou and holdouts.  BB also took two third rounders - they're not too bad.  Finally, he got two fifths up to an extra fourth.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    As for the players BB drafts, he realizes that many (but not all) positions are drafted for two years out.  BB picked a guy with busted knee tendons because in a year or two he might blossom.  BB picked a non-bulky tackle because he could be a 330 pound agile monster in two years.  He again is working for the far future, and that's why second round picks are so important.

    Mostly unnoticed by the dumber of the sports press, BB brought in nine veterans and canned three veterans before the draft even started.  BB acts as if he needs 55 players, and maybe a couple more on speed-dial.  Other coaches think they need 22 players and a kicker.



     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    BB does what he always does he  gets the most bang for his buck, drafts players he can coach up to be solid starters, and compiles future picks. Anyone here remember discussing getting Taylor Mays or Brandon Spikes in the 2010 draft. That's alot easier to do when you have 3 2nds, 3 3rds etc.... He will be in the same position he was this year in 2010; with the ability to move up, down or out in a potentially uncapped year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I'll go toe to toe with draft picks. Indy has had some good first rounders, but then in most seasons NE has a worse selection than Indy. They are two of the four best drafting teams with Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Any of these teams could go toe to toe. NE played this draft extremely well, IMO. #23 for Butler (who half the mocks had them taking at #23) and Brandon Tate, who most mocks had going in the second AND a second rounder next season. That is a score. On every account. Rating a draft, however, comes years later.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Again - I am not attempting to demean NE here at all.  they along with the colts and a few others, as you said, are the best at it.  The colts, however, I believe are better at drafting.  The pats are significantly better than the colts at picking up veteran free agents or trading for them.  This aspect of personnel placement by the colts is almost non-existent. 

    bottom line, the pats have managed 3 sb's to the colts 1.  I am simply here talking about drafting this decade.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    I am saying I disagree.

    You can say (as always) that you aren't demeaning NE. But here you are.

    Ne is as good, likely better. Sure in 2007 they traded some picks away. But on what grounds plain and simple are you arguing this???

    Both teams hit, both teams miss, both are well ahead of the curve.

    Here are their first round selections since BB has arrived here. Sorry. I take NE's list every single time. Less marginal players. Meriweather has more picks just last season than Jackson has his whole four season career. More pro bowlers. 

    2000     28     Rob Morris     LB     Brigham Young    
    2001     30     Reggie Wayne     WR     Miami (FL)    
    2002     11     Dwight Freeney     DE     Syracuse    
    2003     24     Dallas Clark     TE     Iowa    
    2004     No first-round draft pick     [18]
    2005     29     Marlin Jackson     CB     Michigan    
    2006     30     Joseph Addai     RB     Louisiana State    
    2007     32     Anthony Gonzalez     WR     Ohio State    
    2008     No first-round draft pick     [19]
    2009     27     Donald Brown     RB     Connecticut    

    Every single player here is a starter. Four pro-bowlers. And that will rise soon when Mayo makes the pro-bowl and Meriweather makes the pro-bowl.

    2000     No first-round draft pick     [29]
    2001     6       Richard Seymour     DT     Georgia    
    2002     21     Daniel Graham     TE     Colorado     [30]
    2003     13     Ty Warren     DT     Texas A&M     [31]
    2004     21     Vince Wilfork     DT     Miami (FL)     [32]
               32     Benjamin Watson     TE     Georgia    
    2005     32     Logan Mankins     OG     Fresno State    
    2006     21     Laurence Maroney     RB     Minnesota    
    2007     24     Brandon Meriweather     S     Miami (FL)     [33]
    2008     10     Jerod Mayo     LB     Tennessee     [34]
    2009     No first-round draft pick     [35]

    And second round.

    They both have two busts. They both have one pro-bowler. Indy has taken more selections.

    2000

    Adrian Klemm (BUST)
    Marcus Washington (decent player)

    2001

    Idrees Bashir (BUST)

    Matt Light (pro bowler)

    2002

    Larry Triplett (average player)
    Deion Branch (Super Bowl MVP, very good player)

    2003

    Eugene Wilson still a starter
    Mike Doss (BUST)

    2004

    Bob Sanders (pro bowler)
    Marquise Hill (RIP)

    2005
    Kelvin Hayden (average player)
    No selection

    2006
    Chad Jackson (Bust)
    Tim Jennings (below average player)

    2007

    Tony Ugoh
    Trade (Wes Welker)


    Again. Going on first plus second, in BB's tenure. NE has drafted more probowlers by one, and an equal amount of busts. And NE has drafted on  DROY. And we can go deeper into the draft there is more seperation and it only helps my arguement. 

    So again, I am MOST curious as to how you figure NE has drafted worse than Indy in BB's tenure. You can go back into the late 1990's under Pete Caroll. But if you do I will go to the early 1990's and late 1980s. So lets stick to the thread.

    So +1 pro-bowler. +1 ROY. That is better. By any measure.

    Please explain how Indy is better.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hoier. Show Hoier's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

     This  year's effort is not so hot.  C- at best
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from boston006. Show boston006's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Glad this years Draft is over let's hope the PATS make a run at the SB and pullin another RING.  Go PATS...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from emilycuba33. Show emilycuba33's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    [QUOTE]I am saying I disagree. You can say (as always) that you aren't demeaning NE. But here you are. Ne is as good, likely better. Sure in 2007 they traded some picks away. But on what grounds plain and simple are you arguing this??? Both teams hit, both teams miss, both are well ahead of the curve. Here are their first round selections since BB has arrived here. Sorry. I take NE's list every single time. Less marginal players. Meriweather has more picks just last season than Jackson has his whole four season career. More pro bowlers.  2000     28     Rob Morris     LB     Brigham Young     2001     30     Reggie Wayne     WR     Miami (FL)     2002     11     Dwight Freeney     DE     Syracuse     2003     24     Dallas Clark     TE     Iowa     2004     No first-round draft pick     [18] 2005     29     Marlin Jackson     CB     Michigan     2006     30     Joseph Addai     RB     Louisiana State     2007     32     Anthony Gonzalez     WR     Ohio State     2008     No first-round draft pick     [19] 2009     27     Donald Brown     RB     Connecticut     Every single player here is a starter. Four pro-bowlers. And that will rise soon when Mayo makes the pro-bowl and Meriweather makes the pro-bowl. 2000     No first-round draft pick     [29] 2001     6       Richard Seymour     DT     Georgia     2002     21     Daniel Graham     TE     Colorado     [30] 2003     13     Ty Warren     DT     Texas A&M     [31] 2004     21     Vince Wilfork     DT     Miami (FL)     [32]            32     Benjamin Watson     TE     Georgia     2005     32     Logan Mankins     OG     Fresno State     2006     21     Laurence Maroney     RB     Minnesota     2007     24     Brandon Meriweather     S     Miami (FL)     [33] 2008     10     Jerod Mayo     LB     Tennessee     [34] 2009     No first-round draft pick     [35] And second round. They both have two busts. They both have one pro-bowler. Indy has taken more selections. 2000 Adrian Klemm (BUST) Marcus Washington (decent player) 2001 Idrees Bashir (BUST) Matt Light (pro bowler) 2002 Larry Triplett (average player) Deion Branch (Super Bowl MVP, very good player) 2003 Eugene Wilson still a starter Mike Doss (BUST) 2004 Bob Sanders (pro bowler) Marquise Hill (RIP) 2005 Kelvin Hayden (average player) No selection 2006 Chad Jackson (Bust) Tim Jennings (below average player) 2007 Tony Ugoh Trade (Wes Welker) Again. Going on first plus second, in BB's tenure. NE has drafted more probowlers by one, and an equal amount of busts. And NE has drafted on  DROY. So again, I am MOST curious as to how you figure NE has drafted worse than Indy in BB's tenure. You can go back into the late 1990's under Pete Caroll. But if you do I will go to the early 1990's and late 1980s. So lets stick to the thread. So +1 pro-bowler. +1 ROY. That is better. By any measure. Please explain how Indy is better.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Why is it that everyone talks "pro bowl" players.  Brett Favre was voted to the pro bowl last year.  That alone should tell you what the pro bowl truly means.  Nothing!!!  It is a popularity contest, not who is the "best".  NE has had some "great" players, very consistent, that haven't been looked at for a pro bowl.  Give me non-flashy consistent players any day.  Pro bowl is a joke!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    I agree. Addai is a pro-bowler only because he plays for Indy. He is a solid runner, but not an All-Pro.

    Light, Warren, Sanders, Wayne, Wilfork, Seymour and Freeney all earned it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Ok -

    First Round - Pats 9 picks to Colts 7 (does not include 09). 
     
    Rob Morris -
    6 year starter for colts including Superbowl.  Not special but effective. 

    Dallas Clark
    is superior to both of your tight ends picked combined.  (thats 2 for 1)

    Marlin Jackson was a projected probowler last year until injury.  Merriweather plays a different position and only started because Harrison went down.  No way Merriweather is better.  Won't say that he is worse.  Jury is out.

    Joseph Addai hands down has been better than Maroney, and these two are linked because of their mid-late round selection. 

    I can't find where warren was selected to the probowl.  

    That leaves Gonzalez, Freeney, and Wayne. 

    Freeney and Seymour have been equals for their team.  Wayne and Wilfork the same.  So Mankins and Gonzalez.  Both starters.  Mankins has a PB where Gonzalez does not, but Addai has one where Maroney does not. 

    I've got to say that with fewer picks we have equal effectiveness if not better in the first. 

    Second Round =

    Remember - My comments were about 1st round only.  And I was only talking draft.  Adding Welker to the list doesn't fit. 

    I already gave props to the pats for using picks for veteran trades and which the pats do much better than the colts, but that is not drafting.  So sticking to my arguement, welker is not included.  

    04-07 - pats nothing or busts per your statement.  Even a marginal colts player (per your statement) is better than nothing.  But -
    Ugoh vs. nothing - starter since rookie
    Jennings - started 12 games last year, so he is a better than marginal. 
    Hayden -  starter and better than average. 
    Sanders - NFL defensive player of the year.  Enough said.

    Regardless of any other players before them - 4 to 0 makes the colts second round significantly better than the pats.  

    Eugene Wilson vs. Mike Doss - both were about the same player 03-06.  Doss in 06 was injured and let go.  Still in the league and if not for injury might be starting.  That said - edge to NE for drafting a player who did not get hurt. 

    Larry Tripplet vs. Deon Branch - Clearly NE (although some on this site like to say Branch was only good as a pat - thus system player).

    Idrees Bashir vs. Matt Light - NE - no contest.

    Marcus Washington vs. Adrian Klemm - IN - no contest - Washington Probowler

    You Didn't list 08 - Mike Pollck (site wouldn't let me spell his name) vs.Terrance Wheatley - 13 starts vs. 1.  Colts are the clear winner. 

    Left out Bethel Johnson (2003- 2nd rd) - NE Bust


    I'd say the colts picks were better in the first and second. 

    I did not intend to have you further solidify my arguement, but thank you.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    Re: BB Proves He's the Master!

    Is it my imagination or has the list of words you are not allowed to type grown exponentially since they reopened this forum?
     

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