BB's All-Bust team.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    BB's All-Bust team.

    In just over a decade of being the top dog in Foxboro, BB has managed to draft a whole team's worth of busts with fairly high draft picks.


    Position - name (round)

    Offense

    QB - Kevin O'Connell (3)
    RB - Laurence Maroney (1)
    RB - J. R. Redmond. (3)
    WR - Chad Jackson (2)
    WR - Bethel Johnson (2)
    WR - Tate/Price (3) (tie)
    TE - David Thomas (3)
    OL - Adrian Klemm (2)
    OL - Rich Ohrnberger (4)
    OL - Gregg Randall (4)
    OL - Kenyatta Jones (4)
    OL - Clint Oldenberg (5)

    Defense

    DL - Ron Brace (2)
    DL- Marquis Hill (2)
    DL - Kareem Brown (4)
    LB - Jermaine Cunningham (2)
    LB - Tyrome Mckenzie (3)
    LB - Shawn Crable (3)
    LB - Ryan Claridge (5)
    DB - Darius Butler (2)
    DB - Terrence Wheatley (2)
    DB - Guss Scott (3)
    DB -Brock Williams (3)



    All but two are 4th round or better and 18 are in the top 3 rounds.

    Notice the O-line was hard to come up with names for. Credit Dante for that I suspect. Sometimes great position coaches are the very best at knowing who to draft. Which is another reason BB's on the job training of inexperienced guys hurts I suspect. Hmmm, that reminds me of the position coach who hounded BB to take Brady. RIP Dick.

    There certainly are more. Was Meriweather a bust? Some would say yes.

    How terrible would this team be? The Colts would destroy them. Yup.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    good coaching helps develop and utilize young talent

    tough to get the coaching continuity you need when you've lost an entire coaching staff full of top talent.

    Weis, Crennel, McDaniels, Mangini, Rob Ryan, Brian Daboll...

    good job finding all of these
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]In just over a decade of being the top dog in Foxboro, BB has managed to draft a whole team's worth of busts with fairly high draft picks. Position - name (round) Offense QB - Kevin O'Connell (3) RB - Laurence Maroney (1) RB - J. R. Redmond. (3) WR - Chad Jackson (2) WR - Bethel Johnson (2) WR - Tate/Price (3) (tie) TE - David Thomas (3) OL - Adrian Klemm (2) OL - Rich Ohrnberger (4) OL - Gregg Randall (4) OL - Kenyatta Jones (4) OL - Clint Oldenberg (5) Defense DL - Ron Brace (2) DL- Marquis Hill (2) DL - Kareem Brown (4) LB - Jermaine Cunningham (2) LB - Tyrome Mckenzie (3) LB - Shawn Crable (3) LB - Ryan Claridge (5) DB - Darius Butler (2) DB - Terrence Wheatley (2) DB - Guss Scott (3) DB -Brock Williams (3) All but two are 4th round or better and 18 are in the top 3 rounds. Notice the O-line was hard to come up with names for. Credit Dante for that I suspect. Sometimes great position coaches are the very best at knowing who to draft. Which is another reason BB's on the job training of inexperienced guys hurts I suspect. Hmmm, that reminds me of the position coach who hounded BB to take Brady. RIP Dick. There certainly are more. Was Meriweather a bust? Some would say yes. How terrible would this team be? The Colts would destroy them. Yup.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

         Great post, Babe. What a steaming pile of wasted opportunity. Something needs to be done to remedy this...or, someday, our Pats will look like the 2011 Colts.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    How can a 5th round pick be a bust? Wouldn't be more surpising if he made the team? The fourth round is going to be hit or miss also. You listed a ton of OL how about how many OL that have been great picks? You also listed a dead guy, two second year guys still on the team(one coming of the PUP list), and a RB that was part of the greatest offense in the history of the NFL. This is a silly list.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    Hill died man, my goodness dude.... and Redmond blow out his knee....
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenacioust. Show tenacioust's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    Wow, we must be winless! You idjits would complain about a pimple on a supermodel's @$$
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from djmyers7. Show djmyers7's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    BB drafted a dead guy?  We need better scouts.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmcintosh. Show andrewmcintosh's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    I really don't consider a 4th round pick a "bust", but there are some pretty lame misses on that list.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]How can a 5th round pick be a bust? Wouldn't be more surpising if he made the team? The fourth round is going to be hit or miss also. You listed a ton of OL how about how many OL that have been great picks? You also listed a dead guy, two second year guys still on the team(one coming of the PUP list), and a RB that was part of the greatest offense in the history of the NFL. This is a silly list.
    Posted by BosoxJoe5[/QUOTE]

    He wasn't dead when we picked him, (may he rest in peace; tragic accident). He wasn't showing any sign of impact into 3 years with the team.

    Fourth and fifth round is where you get your backups and an occasional starter, like Koppen or Asante Samuel. So, no, those rounds matter a lot. C'mon, there are two guys that were 5th round out of like 24 names!

    I said the O-line was an exception to the rule and why. That's where most all the 4th and 5th picks are anyway. Did you read my comments?

    The great majority of the picks were top 3 rounds.

    I'm sure the more kool-aide you swill, the sillier the list gets.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]I really don't consider a 4th round pick a "bust", but there are some pretty lame misses on that list.
    Posted by andrewmcintosh[/QUOTE]


    You're not expecting a star or even a starter in the 4th round. But a solid backup is found there and a guy who can't play at least at that level is a bust to me.

    But hey, I did have to put somebody up to make a whole team. There were worse busts, but they were just at positions already well manned by a worse bust.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    Think about it for a minute. The average NFL career is about 5-6 years. The good ones can play at a high level for 10+ years, but they are not that common, and after the rookie contract you pay full freight for them against the cap.

    Over 11 years you ostensibly get 22 guys in the 1st and 2nd round. Those are your starters. You get 22 picks in the 3rd and 4th round. Those are the backups/STs. There is a mix of course. The 5th 6th and 7th round need to come up with some players too because you know you aren't going to hit on all the top picks. Those 4th and 5th round guys are quite important too.

    Add in FAs, undrafted guys, other team's castoffs that work out and trading to the mix. May the best team builder win.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    Apparantly most of the other teams are worse at teambuilding because we keep beating them.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jsppro1. Show jsppro1's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    Should Bill continue to be the GM or does he need help.  The all Bust team is a great post.  The defensive bust are crazy, that shouldn't happen.  Go Pats.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]Apparantly most of the other teams are worse at teambuilding because we keep beating them.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    The Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints and Packers might disagree with you there.

    But then, when you have the HOF QB team building can be lackluster and you still win.

    Think what the Jets would be like with Brady and us with Sanchez. Scary.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]Should Bill continue to be the GM or does he need help.  The all Bust team is a great post.  The defensive bust are crazy, that shouldn't happen.  Go Pats.
    Posted by jsppro1[/QUOTE]


    I doubt at this point he would go for anything less than total control. Of course fans mindlessly screaming he is the greatest GM in history doesn't enhance the prospects of any change. Though I do see more and more fans and more and more pundits admitting the obvious.

    In the pre-season I dared to question the drafting and was wanted to be lynched by 97% of the minions. It seems like less are foaming at the mouth when you question Hoodie the GM these days.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]Think about it for a minute. The average NFL career is about 5-6 years. The good ones can play at a high level for 10+ years, but they are not that common, and after the rookie contract you pay full freight for them against the cap. Over 11 years you ostensibly get 22 guys in the 1st and 2nd round. Those are your starters. You get 22 picks in the 3rd and 4th round. Those are the backups/STs. There is a mix of course. The 5th 6th and 7th round need to come up with some players too because you know you aren't going to hit on all the top picks. Those 4th and 5th round guys are quite important too. Add in FAs, undrafted guys, other team's castoffs that work out and trading to the mix. May the best team builder win.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Average NFL career is 3.2 years.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    I think you're too worried about the guys that don't make it. It's just a reality of the NFL. You can go to google or Wikipedia and look up ""2005 nfl draft" or any other year and you'll find that half of the first rounders, 2/3 of second rounders and only a handful of picks after that ever make it. It's just the way it is. If you want to see if the team is better look at who they lost vs who they've gotten. Last year: lost - nobody of impact (Page, Taylor, Morris, etc.) This year gained- Waters, Solder, Carter. 3 guys making impacts this year that didn't last year. It typical for a,team to turn over 15 guys per year, so you can get all bent out of shape 15 times per year or just accept that when you make alot of moves you will get more hits and more misses, but only the hits matter.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]I think you're too worried about the guys that don't make it. It's just a reality of the NFL. You can go to google or Wikipedia and look up ""2005 nfl draft" or any other year and you'll find that half of the first rounders, 2/3 of second rounders and only a handful of picks after that ever make it. It's just the way it is. If you want to see if the team is better look at who they lost vs who they've gotten. Last year: lost - nobody of impact (Page, Taylor, Morris, etc.) This year gained- Waters, Solder, Carter. 3 guys making impacts this year that didn't last year. It typical for a,team to turn over 15 guys per year, so you can get all bent out of shape 15 times per year or just accept that when you make alot of moves you will get more hits and more misses, but only the hits matter.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    Waters was a free agent. Solder OK. Carter was a free agent. What do 2 free agents have to do with BB's draft record other than substantiating that's he's horribly missed with many of his draft choices?

    Let me ask you a question...is it continuously better to trade down or out of the first round (where the hit rate is about half the time) into lower rounds where the hit rate is substantially less (actually about 1/3 for seconds and 1/5 for thirds)? Your answer should hopefully be based to some degree on probablity analysis....

    It would be great if in fact we had some "more hits," but his recent record suggests a lot "more misses."
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonSportsFan111. Show BostonSportsFan111's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    This same 'logic' could be applied to any of the other 31 teams in the NFL, you could pick an all-bust team for any of them. Because they have been consistent winners, the Pats have typically drafted near the end of each round for the entire decade as well, which is a definite disadvantage. Thats 30+ more players (every round, every year) they do not get a shot at due to their SUCCESS. 

    Here is the link to every teams draft picks for the entire history of the league. Do the real analysis and tell us who (based on their drafting position) has been so much better.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?type=team
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    You win some you lose some. Every player drafted is not going to be a Gronowski or Hernandez, Edelman, Vollmer, Solder.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]The Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints and Packers might disagree with you there. But then, when you have the HOF QB team building can be lackluster and you still win. Think what the Jets would be like with Brady and us with Sanchez. Scary.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
    If David Tyree doesn't catch that ball are we still having this conversation?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team. : Waters was a free agent. Solder OK. Carter was a free agent. What do 2 free agents have to do with BB's draft record other than substantiating that's he's horribly missed with many of his draft choices? Let me ask you a question...is it continuously better to trade down or out of the first round (where the hit rate is about half the time) into lower rounds where the hit rate is substantially less (actually about 1/3 for seconds and 1/5 for thirds)? Your answer should hopefully be based to some degree on probablity analysis.... It would be great if in fact we had some "more hits," but his recent record suggests a lot "more misses."
    Posted by sml1210[/QUOTE]

    Free agents have nothing to do with his draft record. You don't win anything for drafting players, I'm pointing out that the team is better, nothing else matters. As for the drafting down, I will tell you that's it's a myth. I know, you've seen BB draft down several times, but you've seen him draft up too. When he trades a 2nd this year for a first next it's also a draft up. Naturally, every team is given 7 picks, one in each round. BB has been given 10 first rounders in 12 drafts (two not given to him were the trade in 2000 by Kraft for BB and Spygate). He has been given 12 second rounders. In turn he has used 12 first rounders, two more than he's been given, one of which was a 10th overall acquired by trades. He has used 16 second rounders, four more than he's been given. It's impossible to keep trading away first and second round picks and end up with more than you started with.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    This is partially interesting (clearly there have been issues at WR), but let's get real with about half of these names.  And you can't name a reverse all-pro team like you do here and then say well it's not your fault that you had to stretch credibility in order to come up with this many names.  

    David Thomas is not a bust.  He's been a productive NFL player, just wasn't good enough to make it in Foxboro. They don't win the 2001 SB without JR Redmond, so call him a bust if you must, but not in my book.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: BB's All-Bust team.

    In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: BB's All-Bust team. : The Colts, Giants, Steelers, Saints and Packers might disagree with you there...

    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Disagree with what?

    Here's some great Steeler picks since 2001 by the way, 5th round and up, just like your list. Could do the same for every team in the NFL, proves nothing:

    Kraig Urbik, g
    Joe Burnett, db
    Frank Summers, rb
    Thaddeus Gibson, lb
    Chris Scott, t
    Limas Sweed, wr
    Bruce Davis, lb
    Tony Hills, t
    Ryan Mcbean, dt
    Cameron Stephenson, g
    Anthony Smith, s
    Willie Reid, wr
    Orien Harris, dt
    Charles Davis, te
    Omar Jacobs, qb
    Bryant McFadden, db
    Fred Gibson, wr
    Rian Wallace, lb
    Alonzo Jackson, de
    Nathaniel Adibi, de
    Mathias Nkwenti, t

     

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